Sitting here in Colorado reflecting on a successful hunt.

Last minute deal took my 260. It worked but not fantastic

I'm going to get serious and plan an elk hunt every year

I have the following:

Mcm edge classic long action 700 rock #3

Trigger

Rem 700 long action 30-06 bolt face

3.5-10x40 leupold

Want to build a killing rifle

Suggest me a gun

First thoughts are a 338-06

Or trade for a magnum action and build a 300 win Mag or rum

I'd like a 25in tube and prefer not to run a brake but realize this gun is going to be 7.5lbs or so all up so it might be necessary

My wheels are turning thanks for any suggestions

#1 No on the muzzle brake. Damaging to the ears and a PITB to try to wear hearing protection when hunting in all types of weather. BTDT, bad idea all the way around

#2 If you stay with a 30/06 based action, I would just go 30/06 and run 168gr Barnes TTSX's at about 2900fps. Flat shooting, accurate and deadly

#3 if you trade out of your action and get into a magnum bolt face and length then you might as well go all the way up and get a GOOD one like a Model 70, Ruger model 77, CZ, or other Mauser type controlled round feed fixed ejecotr action and build a rifle that will be as trouble free and reliable for as long a time as is humanly possible. Then, look hard at 338 WinMag or my favorite the 340 Weatherby. Great Elk thumpers and no muzzle brake required so long as the rifle is of a decent wieght and the stock fits you + good recoil pad like a limbsaver.

Many consider the 340 Weatherby to be the ultimate elk hunting Cartridge and I tend to agree. I like them on African Plains game as well.

Look at the fast 35's to. 358 norma and 358 STA. But really anything from 270 up will work well on elk.

I'd look at bullets before building a rifle.

I don't know jack about elk, but I do know that if you want bang-flops with anything placement and bullets rule, for the most part.

I happen to like the 338 with 230 FailSafes and 250 Partys.

30-06 would be my choice if staying with your current action. If you do get a magnum action I would say 300win. No need for a brake on either choice.

A 25" gun offers little over a 22" gun in terms of speed, but in the nasty it all adds up. Not sure if you will ever have to beat the brush for elk like we do. I just sawed my 375 down to 22" from 26" with a try at 24 too....nothing but happiness. I would look at the 30-06, 35whelen, and 338-06.....with preference to the whelen for sub 300yd hunting.

7x57

22" Barrel

140 gr. TSX

I could easily vote for the 7X57 as well, but, would probably go 30-06 if I were you.

'Twer it me with the same components, I'd build a 30-06 and shoot 200gr Accubonds through it. I think that'd make a very nice elk rifle.

280ai.
simple solution.
140 ttsx's at 3100 + fps.
so it's flat shooting, and has plenty of muscle.
mine put one clean thru sideways on sat. on a cow at 313 yards.

another ttsx of in la la land.

I would trade your action for a magnum action (or open the bolt face) and build a 7mm Remington mag. In a 7.5 pound rifle it will not recoil to bad and no need for a break. With a 25 inch barrel and 160's it will probaly get you close to 3100 fps.

I am a 30/06 fan but the more I play with the 7mm mag I am starting to think that it may hold a edge over the 30/06 (and maybe its all in my mind).

7mm mag also would let you use 140's for deer and lopes on years when elk were not being hunted.

Dink

Only people on the internet need magnums for Elk.

a true Elk hunter wants a handy mid-weight accurate rifle that hits where he aims.


Most magnums are heavier than I care to be lugging up mountains,if you need a muzzle brake your shooting too much gun. Everytime I see Bill's .300 Weatherby I think of his nasty scope eye. A 9 1/4 lb rifle that cuts me open, No Thanks....

I can tell you our group through the years have all gone to synthetic stocks on mid-weight mid-caliber rifles. The '06 is the most popular for many reasons. 180 grain Partition or TSX and it's a done deal.

270 or '06 - it's as simple as that.

I live in the heart of elk country and most folks around here use a 270 - 'Nuff Said!

drover

I have hunted elk with rifles from 6mm Rem to .375 Ruger. Most frequently I pick up my NULA .30-'06 with my current best hunting bullet load.

jim

[quote=Kenneth]Only people on the internet need magnums for Elk.

a true Elk hunter wants a handy mid-weight accurate rifle that hits where he aims.


Most magnums are heavier than I care to be lugging up mountains,if you need a muzzle brake your shooting too much gun.


+1 !!! Tell me about your .260...I may take it off your hands since its "insufficient"

Depends on where and how you are hunting. I used to book hunts on a ranch near Craig Colorado where the shots were into various valleys and hillsides at migrating Elk. Shots were always quite long and the outfitter and guiides considered the 340 Weatherby to be the best Elk rifle of the bunch. I have also hunted and Killed Elk in the rainforest tangle over on the Washington Coast and there, your reccomendation makes lots of sense and I oft packed a Model 71 Winchester in 348 Ackley Imroved which with its peep sights was ideal.

One thought that is often lost is this: A rifle that will work on an elk at long range will also kill them quite nicely at short range. Not true n reverse. My 348 would have been almost usless on that wide open sagebrush and grassland ranch in Western Colorado but I have shot elk with a 300 RUM and my 340 in heavy timber country and always felt well armed. Even in the thick stuff sometimes a clearcut can be sat upon and watched where a shot can be long. In addition, especially in thick stuff I really want said elk to be down and out NOW and in my experience a big FAST bullet does this really well. Elk well hit with 300WBY, 300 RUM, and my wildcat 340 Tyrannosaur have either been on the ground where they stood or walked a few steps - as in 4 or 5 steps- and then toppled over.

No you do not need a magnum to kill elk but they sure don't hurt anything either. I find that most guys that are against magnums will not dedicate themselves to being a good shot with one (or standard calibers either).

Elk tags cost me somewhere between $500 and $1000 dollars and there is not one good reason not use a rifle (and bullet) that will kill near or far or any angle.

I don't get to hunt alot of big game every year but what I do get to do is shoot alot. I am not afraid of shots in the 400 to 600 yard range if I can get a rest. I have no doubt that a 30-06 shooting 180 grain partition at 2700 fps will get it done from 10 to 600 yards but if the 06 is good there can be nothing wrong with the same bullet running 3350 ish from a 300 RUM.

Dink

Safari, I respect your experience and I will slight none of it. So just for conversation,

As for the .340, you are a person who can apparently handle such a beast, Would you agree this is more energy/recoil than most can shoot accurately? And yet a Guide recommends this round for long range?

Would you agree a .340 is much heavier than you would "prefer" to carry?

I find it ironic that my buddy Bill's .300 'bee has the most missed/wounded Elk of our group. kinda hard to deliver an accurate shot when your wondering if your about to join the .300 club, again.

Dink, point taken. If your another one of the guys who can handle the recoil of a mag and still shoot just as accurate then go for it.

But every time I'm around people who cant shoot it's apparent their fearful of the kick their about to receive.

I've seen/heard it time after time.

A person who can shoot/afford/handle long range practice with an '06 is likely going to be a killing machine,

A person who flinches when he pulls the trigger on his Mag is just fooling himself, and his success rate will show it.

I would go 338-06 for sure since you have a 30-06 boltface. New #3 or 4 barrel and flute it to lighten up, cut to 24" or maybe to 22" as some guys have done for their mountain setup. And then you are set to go...you already have thye scope and rifle stock fo a sweet new semi-custom setup.

I built my 338-06 Ackley Improved on a Sako m75 Greywolf with Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 scope couple years back....LOVE IT. 24" PacNor supermatch grade stainless barrel. I went with a #5 and had deep, wide flutes....and she is a tack driver. Weighs in the same as a factory Sako m75 Greywolf 7mmRM/300WM/338WM. IF I was to do it again, I'd go #4 and flute.

I built my 338-06AI to shoot heavy bullets -225gr bullets...I use the Accubonds or the TTSX's. If I wanted to shoot lighter bullets, I would just use my Sako m75ss 300WM with 180gr Accubonds. You could load it down with 185gr TTSX's for deer...still would work for elk and moose.

As mentioned, a 280AI would be a sweet rifle. I would go 160gr TTSX or Accubonds. I know the 140's would work too...I use 140gr Accubonds in my 270WSM to take elk, moose, bears, deer.

The 330 Dakota is a sweet round also...I'm tempted for my next Sako m75 rifle build.

Have fun with your build.

Kenneth, to begin with, I so appreciate a thread response that is thoughtful and allows for differring opinions yet still chanllenges a thought or point. Nothing at all wrong with offering a different POV, challenging a point etc. when done correctly and with space given for other POV's. I have doen the same with posts from Boxer aka Big Stick even though his views or opinions and mine are quite different. Same with others who prefer things different from what I like or prefer. Well done, I wish others would learn from your post.

To answer your questions and points.... I agree that the various 300's and up can be difficult for some to master. Oft times this comes, as I see it, from those who shhot too little in the offseason, have rifles that are too light for the power level chambered in, or have rifles and or stocks that are ill fitting. As an example not ALL body types respond well to teh 'classic' stock design that some all knowing typwriter evangalist once declared as "the best" for handling recoil for any and all shooters. Such is simply not the case. A hunter of any big game should not - cannot is maybe a better way of putting it - go and buy whatever 300-338 big gun he thinks is a good one or that his friends like or suggest, mount a scope, buy some ammo, sight it in and then go hunting. For these chaps, a standard caliber is going to be somewhat better but STILL not a good plan unless shots are kept to moderate ranges and un rushed. The ranch I spoke of was more of a sniping spot than a hunting spot. Vantage points were long known, as were the patterns of migration so shooters could set up with rests etc. most of the hunters if not all were xperienced long range rifleman who shot thier 300-338 cal fast rifels quite well. Kinda the same crowd every year ntil the lease was lost. I really miss that place.... Anyway, longer shots should only be taken by those who practice same, not just 100 yard sighters iners who use charts and a prayer to lob a shell into a distant unsuspecting Elk or other animal. Most who practice these shots know what rifles they can shoot well or cannot.

My 340 weighs about 10lbs all ready to hunt. For some, this would be a major PITB, but for others such a rifle is quite allright. I have packed it and an equally heavy model 70 Classic in 300RUM all over the elk mountains and rocky hilss of southern Africa on some long stalks and hound chases and I do (or did, before my recent illnesses) just fine.

Short version, pracitce and hunt with what YOU like, can carry, and can shoot well. Then limityour shots to the greatest distance that YOU know you can hit well at. As an example, I do not shoot enough of well enough to shoot past 500 yards so that is my limit. I have two good hunting buddies who can hit well at 700 and I have seen them make clean kills out at those ranges when I did not and would not even try. Know yourself, your rifle, your abilities and stay within the limits that you set for youreslef in the offseason out of sportsmanship and respect for the game sought. At the same time, shoot the biggest, fastest rifle you cvan handle well, also out fo respect for the same game and wanting to make the cleanest possible fastest kill. It is just a plain fact that an elk shot at 400 yards is going to be hit harder and travle less distance if punched ith a still quickly stepping 225-250gr 33 cal bullet than if hit with a 27-28 caliber bullet that is just ambling along and barely penetrates one lung.

Thanks for suggestions

Pretty certain I want at least a 30 cal and 200g bullet

Is that much needed no but with tags taking years to draw why risk it

Plus they always arent standing broadside sitting still so I want something to knock them hard.

My 260 isn't for sale it worked wonderfully but not what I would want to take on a 8 plus year wait tag

I'm going to run some numbers right now the 300 win mag is leadin the way

screw it. go 300 rum.
if you don't reload, remington makes 3 power levels of factory ammo for it.
30-06/300 win. mag/and full blown 300 rum.

that should cover all you need.
i am running 165 grainers outta mine over 3500 fps.
shoots real flat.

YUP.

so why isnt anyone using a 50bmg? It has all the range and stopping power you can ask for.

If it were mine, I would run with a .30-06 built light weight. I would also consider upgrading the magnum action and building a light weight 7mm Rem Mag. Those are two projects I still have on my books. I would run them with a hunter style stock from McMillan as well. I like the palm swell and the monte carlo cheek piece.

i just might get my barrett up n runnin with 750 gr. a max's and do so.
would love to see what a 700 yard plus hit would look like !

A 270 WSM or a 300 WSM would do the trick nicely and be able to build something light and handy.

Shipster

35 whelan

"
"My 340 weighs about 10lbs all ready to hunt. For some, this would be a major PITB,"

We do agree on most things here, especially the 10 lb thingy,your into more of a workout than I am. But in certain situations(posted or horses)I can see 10lbs as doable.

Well played...........

I'd consider an '06 AI if you want to bridge the performance and recoil differences between the '06 and .300 mags and it'll work on the action you already have. I think that'd be pretty nice with a 25" barrel if that's what you really want to run.

Everyone has an opinion. I would say none are absolutely wrong, and until you specify how you hunt, none can be said to be best for you, either. Being happy with your equipment is probably more important than the specific equipment you select.

Tom

ShootOne,

FWIW- I've contemplated this 'problem' in the past, and my relatively new 'go-to' elk rifle is the one I recently put together.

My criteria were:
Enough energy to be very effective at ranges out to 400 yards,
sub-MOA accuracy,
Moderate (not lightweight), which for me means around 8 lbs. all up,
Moderate recoil.

What I put together is this:

Weatherby Vanguard short action, with 24" Pac Nor barrel in 270 WSM. This action feeds slicker than any other rifle I own.
McMillan Edge Sako Hunter stock, bedded and free floated
Timney trigger
Talley LW mounts
Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 CDS scope
140 gr. Accubond bullets driven at 3270 fps.

Weight all up with this setup is around 8 lbs. Accuracy is way sub-moa, and with a Pachmayr Decellerator pad on the McMillan, recoil is negligible. This rig balances well, carries well, and with the high BC Accubond, is a great long range shooter with minimal wind drift.

BTW- energy with this load is over 2100 ft-lbs. at 400 yards, enough smack for the biggest of elk.
I also believe that if on a combo elk-deer hunt, or elk-deer-antelope safari, you would be hard pressed to come up with a better rifle/bullet setup.

I also have a Weatherby Mk V .300 in my gun safe, which arguably is a better choice for elk. It also weighs more, has more recoil and noise, and is longer, with its long action and 26" barrel.

My oldest son, a friend of his and myself spent last week looking for elk. Didn't get a shot at one but we were carrying a 270 Win and a 280AI, both with 140TSX's and I carried a Kimber in 338 Fed with 200 gr Fusions,...didn't feel like we were undergunned at all. I've only shot elk with a 300 Win before but it's not really required.

I too have seen alot of guys like this with thier new magnum rifles. I believe though that these same guys would be bad shots with any centerfire rifle. They are trying to buy skill by using the latest and greatest cartridge which usually says magnum on it.

I think anyone that can shoot/handle a 30-06 can shoot any magnum rifle up to .338 winchester. They want to be a good shot and will be a good shot with whatever rifle cartridge they decide to use.

There is no secret to shooting magnum rifles well. All it takes is someone that has the "want to" and not afraid of burning a few pounds of powder.

Dink

The OP says he already has a "rock #3".....what caliber is the barrel? or did I miss something here?

Stock is inletted for a rock 3 no barrel on hand

I'd buy a Rock #2 contour in 30 cal with an 11 twist, cut at 23" and roll. I like having some freefloat and that #2 would work fine. 168 tsx, 180 bt, 180 partition or 180 sierra. Ton of good bullet options.

Using what you already have on hand I would get a 23" #3 Rock in 338-06 and run 210gr Partitions.

Agree completely on #1.

#2 is for sure in my top 3 choices, which are 270, 280 or 'o6.

Kilt an elk of 2 & more with a 270 than anything else.......works fine if you can shoot halfway decent & use good bullets. Same for the 280 & o6.

Elk are not bulletproof & magnums are just not required; having said that, nothing wrong with any of them if you like them & can shoot them..........but if you need a brake on one, then, IMO, it's too much gun for you.

Barrel length in any of the above is fine in 22"; 24 if you like it & in magnums.......not fond of anything longer.

YMMV

MM

If you are recoil shy, I'd go this route. If not, go a 300 WSM shooting 180/200 Nosler Partitions/Accubonds. I'd also vote for the Winchester M70 Extreme in 300 WSM. Run 65 gr H4350 under a 180 Partition and you golden. Recoil isn't a big step up from a 30-06. The Extreme weighs less than 8 lbs with Talleys and 3-9x40 Leupie. Having carried mine for a week this past Colorado elk season, it was not burdensome and feels right.

Oh, OK got it....thanks

Lotsa good stuff to choose from IMHO. 30/06,270,280,280AI.

On a magnum bolt face, 7RM or 300 Winchester.

Jeezus God,the girls have run the gamut of stupidity with this one. Long barrels and extry scoops of charcoal,increased performance do not make. They've got goat [bleep] BC's in some of the dumbest [bleep] chamberings,yet pulled out of an ass too! Wow.

Handy/dandy is where it's at for schlepping and boolit selection is where it's at for killing. You've the basis for a Skookum build in hand and yet are bent on [bleep] it up. The harder it kicks at the shoulder,do not equate to the harder it hits the victim on the downrange side of the equation and folks is always in a hurry to miss that. A 300Wby squirting the ladies 200NPT from a 26" spout,will have it's ass handed to it ala svelte 23" 280AI. Read that again and let 'er soak in. Now read it one more [bleep] time.

Simply roll a 9" twist spout that'll float in the inlet,bob to 23",stick the brake in your ass and live a little. M1 ele on the '10x goes without sayin'.

There...schit just got real [bleep] easy and if you ain't careful,you'll start being "Lucky" too.

You've been led to water.

Didn't know you had shot any elk, stick/boxer. I Could be wrong, but I don't recall any photos or stories of such excursions. Correct me if I am mis remembering on that point. Thanks.

I still consider the impressions and stated positions of full time proffesionsal elk guides and outfitters I have sold and booked hunts for to carry a lot of weight, and it is they who have said things like "Elk calibers START at 30/06 and go up from there" and "The best all around elk hunters Cartridge going, for those that can shoot it well, is the 340 Weatherby"

My guide in Alaska on my last hunt there also had high praise for the 340 Weatherby as "the best all around cartridge for hunting Alaskan big game" This guy guides from early Sheep season all the way through Moose and Brown Bear hunting seasons then traps and repairs Super Cubs all winter so might have a valid opinion based on lots of real world experience. Mine is certainly less than his with respects to Alaskan Game, but is considerable in this realm if one considers how many hunts I have booked for others and then learned from the reports or, was there assisting and observed the kills as well as Elk personal and vicarious hunts and my observations and preference match his and the other Elk Guides stated views closely.

Again, a lot of this comes down to WHERE one hunts and the distances one will encounter as well as how picky, choosey and person can afford to be with respects to shot placement. Not all hunters in all situations have the luxery of only taking shots if they are a perfect broadside presentation and an unmolested or unspooked animal.

As I see it, when the shot distances and angles deteriorate, the firearms neccesary caliber, bullet selection for penetration, and power - particularly penetration - through large amounts of bone and muscle, go up in correlation.

Stick.
All that typing.
You coulda just said a 270 WCF witha 130g Nosler partition.


dave

Think 7mm.

Spoken like an elk hunter.

I plan on carrying my 700 7mm08 with a Ti take off barrel and mcm edge for elk for my late season cow hunt. Light makes those long hikes a lot easier. Can't decide between 120tsx, 140 tsx or 162 amax. Either way i plan on busting shoulders.

There are two kinds of "elk hunters", those that drive around in a truck, and shoot at elk off the hood with a 12lb rifle, and those that sneak through aspens and timber, and carry an 8lb rifle...I have never hiked in the mountains and wished my gun weighed more.

Forgot to ask the OP, do you reload? If not i would sell what you have and go 7mm Rem in a 700. If you reload, the .280/.280ai would also work for you on your .473.

I really wanted to build a 338 rum or 340 bee for elk but if i ever did, i know i would leave it at home most of the time.

My 10lb 340 goes with me, all over the place, just fine. different strokes ya know. And yes, I do go all over the mountains and hills with it. As I ahve said before here, I think that a larger person with larger features might feel more comfortable packing a larger rifle. No empirical proof of this, just that I and a couple others of my size XXL but not fat freinds seem to be quite happy with our 10 pounders. Such a rifle might be a beast to carry for a fit but size size S,M or L person. Not sure, my theory at the moment.

Please do report back on the shoulder busting experiences on a big bull elk with the 162 A-Max..............behind the shoulder might be a better choice, just sayin'.

I can say the 120 TSX's don't bounce off though.........

MM

I know the TSX won't bounce off but I have seen enough evidence that I don't think the amax would either.

Well, you've seen what you've seen, but I've never seen a big bull elk shot through the shoulder (bone) with an A-Max, hence the request for show us what it does when you do it.

MM

Hence my late cow tag mention in my post.

I'm a size medium so I like my rifles light will less kick.

First Choice:
Build a 280AI with the receiver, bolt, and stock you have now.

Second Choice:
Buy a new magnum bolt from http://www.davidtubb.com/custom-bolt-right-hand-la-mag-bolt-face
then build one of these: 7RemMag, 7STW, 7Yukon, 7Mashburn, or 7Dakota

Note: Brakes on hunting rifles are gay !

A #3 rock on a .30-06 at 24-26" in length is the bomb for long and short range hunting. I ran a 27" barreled custom.30-06 for a long time. I killed bison, elk and deer at 500+ yards every year. Not one stopped a bullet and all were dead right there. If you need more than a .30-06, you need a lot more. There are PRECIOUS few gents that can run a magnum well at long range in the field under pressure.

Anyone can run a .30-06 and you don't have to worry about magnum eyebrow on difficult shots. I have seen a lot of bloody eyebrows from guys with too much gun that crawled the stock or shot at game on steep up hill angles. Flinch

ShootOne,

It's hard to argue with safariman and Flinch's logic.

I've come full circle.

Started deer hunting 27 yrs ago at the age of 16 with a 30.06. Dad owned a Pre-64 Model 70 in 30.06 Springfield. This was the ultimate, all-around big game rifle and caliber in his mind and he despised the 270. Who was I to argue.

A few years later I began hunting elk with a friend in college who owned a 300 Win Mag.

Shortly after that I owned a 300 and it was a heck of an accurate rifle. Took my first elk with it at a little over 300 paces and I was sold. Problem was it kicked like a mule but I didn't care at the time.

Now, at 43yrs old, and having owned several 300 mags, I have come to the conclusion that the good old ought-six would have done just fine in every situation I've found myself in as far as pulling the trigger on an elk is concerned. Furthermore, it kicks a heck of alot less and therefore is more pleasant to shoot. And, it is more practical for deer hunting, IMO.

Today, I own a great 270 Win(despite dad's razzing) and an awfully accurate 7mm Rem Mag amongst other calibers. In fact I hunted the 7mm last month during Utah's elk season. It too is a great all-around caliber.

But, when I chose a couple of years ago to build a custom the 30.06 got the nod.
Mine puts 180 grain Nosler Accubonds into itty-bitty groups at 2,830 fps and fits me like no other rifle I own. In fact, it was along for the ride this year out in Utah but, just so happens that I own several rifles now that I am ever so fond of and the 7mm Rem just happened to be in my hands when the hammer fell, so to speak.

Having said all this, if I was to build my custom all over again specifically with elk in mind I wouldn't change a thing, 30.06 would still get the nod. With modern powders and 165-180gr Nosler Partitions and Accubonds or 150-168gr Barnes T-TSX an .06 is essentially as effective as any 300 Mag would be in my book, at least to as far as I'm willing to shoot at elk is concerned(400 yds).

I no longer own a 300 win mag. It is a great caliber no doubt. But, IMO standard calibers are all that's needed today with the new powders and premium bullets we are fortunate to have in such variety and the 30.06 is at the top of my list.

Good luck with the build, Leftybolt

338-06 or AI is awesome. You get almost all of the performance of the WM w/ an added cool factor, less recoil and less blast.

Shoot1,

I have a friend in Montana who hunts elk A Lot, and has for over 30 years now. Gradually he has come to believe the .35 Whelen is the elk cartridge, and he owns two of them now (one blue/walnut and one stainless/synthetic). The .35 Whelen is a tad more efficient than the .338-'06 (I have owned both), and you can buy factory ammo easier.

jim

I'm baffled by most of the responses. The OP has a 260 which he likes, has used with "wonderful" success on elk, and presumably is light and handy with easy recoil allowing accurate shot placement. Further, there are high BC 6.5 hunting bullets readily available. You've got your best elk rifle right there in your hands--just put your money into practicing more.

Moreover, you can simply sell all the parts of your custom idea and buy a better factory rifle in the chamberings you are interested in--either a Kimber Montana 280AI, or an older Remington KS 7mag.

Here is the infamous hypothetical scenario with which your dreams are haunted: 8-year tag wait, last afternoon of hunt, possible world-record bull steps out at 422 lasered yards, spots you and starts drifting away toward a timbered north-slope canyon--it is shoot now or go home. Which gun will get it done???

Answer: any gun you can shoot accurately with a decent bullet. Your not going to blow enough power up the butt of a big bull to make up for inaccurate placement, and if you want him dropped right there, right now, then a CNS shot is your best bet. The 260, for example, running a TSX, Accubond, Scirocco, or AMax would be a mighty easy shot, either in the high front shoulder or right smack in the pelvis to break the hips if your that desperate. A big rifle gains you nothing in that scenario.

The only thing a big caliber does is leave (possibly) a bigger blood trail, which is nice for lung shots maybe, but is not what you would do in the scenarios where it matters anyway. Get something that flies flat and is the easiest to shoot--that's what kills critters near and far. Then practice for the intervening 8 years of waiting on the tag.

If what you really want is to simply build a new rifle, then spend your money as you see fit--it need not be justified by need.

Ummm,

Here's what the OP wrote............



Doesn't sound like he was wonderfully happy with the performance of the 260, hence his request for suggestions.

MM

You can't go wrong with a 300 Win Mag. Managable recoil, lots of good factory loads and easy to work-up accurate handloads. Go with the 180 grain bullets for elk. I have personally had great success with Nosler Partitions but there a lot of other good choices in controlled expansion bullets.

Dave - no love for the beloved 7mm? 270? 130s? LOL. I'd gladly run one w/140 ABs or 150PTs Ironically - last I checked, a 260/130AB or even 708/140AB is nipping at the heels of a .277

Now back to the OP. I'd love to hear about the details of your shot/kill, range, angle, placement, bullet(s) used and effects.

As to elk, if I did not run a 6.5 or 7mm, I'd step OVER the 30 and shoot a 338/06, WM, or a 9.3x62. Just one guys flavor.

Back to topic - Horsepower can be nice....so long as you apply traction, i.e. all should be well whether one uses a 250 Savage, 243, or 300 (whiz in your pants) loud-n-boomer as long as the driver 'hooks up' on vital shot placement.

Larry, how much further PBR does one get running a 280AI vs. 708?

My 260 is my match rifle

15 lbs way to heavy for dedicated hunting but great for matches

I was invited on the hunt 3 weeks ago unexpected and not prepared

So I took what I had that shot good and I had confidence in

Been planning a killing stick thus the parts on hand already And the post

What bullet did you use?

Since you asked for caliber suggestions: .308 or larger.

.338-06, straight or AI. Look at a slightly slower twist barrel and optimise it for copper monolithics (like Barnes) around the 180gr mark (think Barnes 185gr TSX). You might say that if you wanted to to shoot 185gr you should just shoot a 30-06. However, i would argue that bullet mass and high SD actually doesn't matter so much anymore and a monolithic .338 cal 180gr kills soft skinned animals much better than most 180gr out of a .30-06. It opens up a bigger wound tract, and makes for a more efficient round and the BCs remain impressive.

Personally, I'd never open a Remington bolt from a standard face to a magnum so that wouldn't be an option for me. Sako extractor mods suck.

You want a dedicated elk rifle... IME it's hard to beat a 270 or 30-06. If it can't be done with either of those two, the fault is not the cartridges. Nothing wrong with a 338-06 either if you just have to have something different. I built one some years back just because...

Take a look at the 338 Federal.

On a Long Action???????????

Based on guns I have owned and in keeping with the .30/06 bolt face, my favorites are .35 Whelan improved and 9.3x62.

Why not go with a short action

I was responding to the original post... did you even read it?

Obviously not...

I like boltmans suggestion a lot. Don't know why I did not think of the 9.3x62! Or even 9.3x64 Brenneke. A couple of great options there.

Yes I read the original post but how hard can it be to trade 30-06 hardware for 308 hardware? Unless you have tunnel vision.

Brilliant... guess he should get rid of his LA McMillan stock too.

I was just adding another option. To all you family of Veterans out there THANK YOU and MAY GOD RICHLY BLESS YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

Good grief...

I favor the mediums I guess. I have and use a whelen, 338/06, and have most of the parts for a 9.3x62. Do I need all that overlap? Nope, but I sure enjoy them! Given the components you have, 338/06, either plain or AI, would be THE choice for me

MontanaMan, he said it, not me.

Now that I'd have to agree with.

If you want to keep your parts, I'd say 280AI for fun, or 270 or 30-06 for standard.

Easier to sell your parts and get a Kimber or Rem KS though.

There is no doubt there are a lot of calibers that will kill an elk. I can't remember if it was mentioned but for me the environment dictates the caliber. Is it open country, trees, a combination or the high country. What are some hunting situations? If your hunting with a less powerful cartridge are you ok with turning away opportunities that the rifle isn't up too? I'm saying if your up too it...carry a rifle that is up to it.
If I didn't want to do a wildcat I would stick with a 30.06 or 300 win mag, noting the 300 mag has a flatter trajectory and down range energy.

Never turned away a single opportunity with a 270.

Just wonderin' how many making recommendations have ever shot an elk................

MM

That's what I'm wondering...

+2!

I have shot more than a few, and booked hunts or helped out on hunts for many more.



Recall if you will that I quoted experienced Guides and outfitters as well as my own experiences. Resident/local Elk hunters are more apt to have more lattitude for turnig away shots and getting better opportunities I think, than the once or twice per decade out of state hunter. Lots less is at stake for them as well.

For an out of state hunter who has a lot of money and time - as well as dreams and hopes- tied up in a rare for him or her Elk Hunt I stand by my recomendation that IF THEY CAN SHOOT IT WELL a fast 300-338 with premium bullets is a great choice.

No problem with the magnums, if a shooter can truly handle them.........please recall I said exactly that early on.

I truly love the 338 & have had as many as 4 at one time.

But, given today's bullets & a decent shooter, at reasonable yardage, there's just no reason to think the 270 (or 280 or 'o6) requires passing up any shot or is the least bit marginal for elk.

Hell, I've shot 150gr Partitions from a 270 completely through bull moose as well as elk.

MM

There's only about 10 different calibers built on that boltface that will all kill equally given equal shot placement. On the .30-06 case you can't go wrong with .280AI, .270 Win or the good old .30-06. Plenty of premium bullets for all of them so you should be able to find something that will shoot lights out and perform. They'll all kill an elk the same.

It seems to me there are now really two approaches to calibre and bullet selection for the large deer species, and which way you want to go really depends largely on the environment in which you hunt.

Firstly, you can go with a smaller calibre (say .270, .280 and .30-06) and a relatively more expansive lead-core (often bonded) bullet of higher ballistic coefficient and sectional density. This approach is more efficient at longer ranges where the improved ballistic coefficient contributes more to retained velocity and efficiency. A wider wound tract is created by greater expansion. If you like, this is the more traditional American approach. As an example, the 180gr partition spitzer coming out of a 30-06 at 2650fps with a BC of .47. Or maybe even a 175gr partition coming out of a .280 with a MV of about 2650fps and BC of a very impressive .52.

Alternatively, you go for a slightly larger calibre but less expansive copper monolithic bullet. Efficiency at the muzzle is greater due to the greater bore, and larger wound tract is likewise dependent on the greater calibre, as expansion is less. The copper monolithic penetration remains excellent - often better than higher SD lead-core bullets. This combination tends to be more efficient at shorter ranges - say less than 250-300 yards, due to greater cartridge efficiency at the muzzle but falling at longer ranges due to reduced BC. For a neat comparison, take the .338 185gr Barnes TSX at about 2750 out of a .338 Fed, with a BC of about .35. There are a few guys in Germany who really seem to be pushing this approach.

Both options will produce similar recoil - the effect of the greater velocity from the .338 Fed is about balanced by the slight increase in powder combusted by the 30-06 case. No animal is going to know the difference in performance, but my experience to date says the larger calibre monolithic seems to stop animals a bit faster. The .338 Federal is the more efficient option to about 250 yards, the 30-06 beyond 300 yards. The Federal obviously has the advantage of fitting in a short action - but you already have a LA, so i am not suggesting a .338 Federal. Instead, for a long action, i like the idea of a .338-06 optimised for monolithic bullets around the 180gr mark. Hence my new big deer barrel for my Blaser is a 8.5x63 Reb, which is just a .338-.280 AI, with a 1:12 twist. It kills like a .338 Win Mag pushing a 225 grainer (similar penetration and slightly smaller wound tract), but has noticibly less recoil. Your choice really depends on 1) recoil tolerance and 2) range.

Ultimately, i have moved towards the larger calibre, lighter bullet weight approach, because i realised that nearly all my hunting occured at ranges less than 250 yards, and often much less. And the area i hunt is heavily forested and mountainous, so that if an animal makes it more than 100 yards, the risk of losing an animal really starts to go up rapidly.

Somehow, when this thread began, I just KNEW it would go ten pages at a minimum. Here we are! Few topics will stir the campfire coals, real or on the net, more than "What caliber for Elk".

Lots of good and, thankfully, respectful bantering here with good points made on all sides.

Truth be told, we are all on the same side! Hunt more, worry less, Amen.

I've heard that repeated often... I don't buy it. Most in-staters don't control vast pieces of land that hold elk they can shoot at their leisure.

I work hard for my elk. Typically solo backpack hunts on public ground. My time is likely far more limited than an out-of-stater on an outfitted hunt.

I say use whatever you want, it's all fun and games anyway. But, let's not start manufacturing justifications for what we shoot.

I used a 22" bbl'd 338 WM for a number of years... I still think it's the ultimate elk cartridge. More than enough power and great visual satisfaction at the hit. But I also found it didn't kill any deader than a 308 Win, and it's not much fun to shoot in a sub 7lb rifle which is also much easier to pack... all choices are a compromise, weighted one way or another.

Yep. I've probably turned down 40 or more elk this year just looking for that perfect one to hang on my wall. Ha Ha.

You cannot go wrong with a 7mm Rem mag,280 or 280ai,270 it just does not get simpler. Concentrate more on a reliable platform that you can tote around easily, that shoots well and can handle weather and in that order. Big freaking animal you don't need a match grade action and chambering.

Build an 30-06 using 165 to 175 grain bullets and never look back.

However, a second choice and one I'd go with is a 275 Rigby )7mm Mauser), sweet shooting and easy on the shoulder.

With either one you are good to go.

I have killed and seen killed many, many elk and moose with the .308 and .30-06, most often loaded with 180-gr. Partitions. I have yet to lose one or seen someone else lose one, or have to pass up a shot because I felt I didn't have enough gun. Most never needed a second shot, and if they did it was because the first one wasn't placed right - which would be the case no matter what gun you were using.

This stuff simply isn't that hard. Finding them is, but once you find them and have any reasonable gun/cartridge, the odds decidedly tip in your favor.

The .308/.30-06 is plenty of gun. Who was it who said, "The .30-06 is never a bad choice"?

Next weekend will mark the 30yr Anniversary of the first Elk I killed. That was with a 742 Carbine '06 and CoreRocts(rest assured,they ain't the Deadliest mushroom in the Woods). Have killed 'em with a passel of wares and never have seen one die "hard". Killed more with a 7-08 than anything,but have shot lotsa anythings,which more than run the gamut. 'Course I'm talking big bodied Roosevelt,not them TicTac sized Rocky's.

Simply too easy to assemble copious Mojo in a svelte/sweet handling platform,that guns exceptional Agg's and is easy on the shoulder. All of them things bear fruit and by the bushel.

Adding diameter is both moot and stupid,or stupid and moot for the dyslexic. As far as delivering the most Oooomph with the free-est of lunches,the 7mm is always your Huckleberry and I get it that it pisses off them who don't shoot. To the point of putting Imaginary Armor Plate on schit,then concocting a Paper Hat Ruse which in the end is a distant second fiddle yet,though they're oblivious to that too. Stupidity really is the gift that keeps on giving.

In the end,I've seen more botched shots on Elk(and all Critters) by Boomers...while them that can shoot a 243,boringly punch tags at every poke. I'll never understand why folks are in a hurry to make easy schit difficult,but the humor never wanes. In The Day,noone gunned more Boomers than I,simply because LRF's hadn't arrived the scene...so to sweeten a guess,velocity was one's friend and I was(am) easily the best range "guesser" I've ever seen. Prolly some correlation there to sections of haywire,wrapping Old Growth around a hill,flight paths and fathoms(in no particular order). Now you can KNOW distance and whistle chamberings that are far more static in their ES/SD(precluding vertical woe) and also launch boolits that were beyond the wildest Dreams of them who Dreamed for schit to get even better(I'm still Dreamin' for a .257 A-Max,.338 A-Max,.257 Scenar and .284 Scenar). Next thing you know,you've a lightweight hammer that'll do it all and easily,while keeping schit fun. Curiously enough,the fun schit gets shot in the off season and the next thing you know,shots you couldn't once fathom,are now well beyond being an absolute given. A guy do make his own "luck".

Few savvy the big picture,in that a guy can have his cake and eat it too. Cracks me up,that noone knows how easy killing is and what do what...and more importantly why. I always enjoyed batting Cleanup on Critters and still do. You start it and bet your ass,I'll [bleep] finish it and make it look easy...if only because it is.

Here Endeth The Sermon.

[quote=Brad]Personally, I'd never open a Remington bolt from a standard face to a magnum so that wouldn't be an option for me. Sako extractor mods suck.

You want a dedicated elk rifle... IME it's hard to beat a 270 or 30-06. If it can't be done with either of those two, the fault is not the cartridges. Nothing wrong with a 338-06 either if you just have to have something different. I built one some years back just because...[/quote

Melvin Forbes seems to think highly of Sako style extractors.

Darn good post.

A Forbes action with the Sako extractor designed into the action is different than modifying an existing M700 action.

Handy, accurate, and fun-to-shoot rifles do build a lot of confidence. In the end of the day, the rifle and chambering are normally not the limiting factor of an elk hunt. Far more things will go wrong before the rifle/cartridge does.

You have the action and stock. If you're happy with both of them, I'd choose a good barrel in a chambering you're happy with and go shoot it. Just about every 30-06 based cartridge will do the job, so choose the one YOU are happy with.

Mmmm........the more of Boxer's stuff I read,the more it reminds me of the practices and observations of JOC,John Jobson,Les Bowman,Warren Page, etc......

The technology behind all this might be slightly different today(keeping in mind those old boys made use of what they had at the time);but the message is clearly similar........light,portable(for the times),shootable rifles,chambered for cartridges of moderate recoil(30/06 level or a bit less,aka 7x57, 270, 280, 7Rem Mag vs 7mmWSM and 7/08);,and relatively high BC's,and moderately high velocities;all the above in combination making for easy bullet placement and good killing effect.

Both relying on placement vs shear horsepower(difficult for some folks to absorb completely),and a recognition that bullet placement trumps everything else,no matter the game(how elephants got killed with 7x57's).

Scope power bumped a bit from 4X to 6X;and of course LRF's and turrets to take the place of PBR.....

The writing style and linguistics are clearly different,but overall, the message is very much the same.

This little analogy may cause Boxer some sleepless nights....I hope not. I consider it a good thing.

Bless his heart.

I can guarantee Boxer is no fan of JOC, Jobson, Bowman nor Page...............

I can also guarantee he abides no 'o6, 7x57, or 270 in his stable either.

MM

MM: I know that....he uses the 7/08 and the 7WSM...it was the recoil and power level I was refering to....

And I know he ain't a fan.....that's why I find the similarities ....interesting.

He's a fan of one thing and one thing only... himself. That's patently obvious.

Laffin...

He's also a big fan of head shots which make most "boolit" arguments moot.

I shoot more than a whole [bleep] bunch and am not into guessing...mainly because I've never had to. To that end,I simply gun an open mind and never was one to wonder,when I could simply procure and see for myself. Killing schit is easy,for folks who actually do it and procrastination only enters the equation via the clueless and their delusions. Extrapolation is the key to R&D and having keen insight to cause/affect. While I'd be the last gent to say all things is equal,I'd be the first to say one makes his own "luck" and making schit easy is a breeze,as a worst case scenario.

That approach is much to the chagrin of Hamburger Technicians like poor dumb broke dick Brad and her contrived bullschit notions,fraught with Imagination. She whines well and often,apparently due to IQ,experience,trigger time and wallet...in no particular order. Here's hoping she's the first gal to bitch herself happy,though I of course remain more than a touch dubious,if only given her track "record". Stupidity is simply the gift that keeps on giving and she's got it in spades. Bless her heart and Imagination.

Pass the good schit,hold the fluff.

Interpretation:

"I'm of small stature."

In fairness,it'd be tough to slight your lady fingers and perfect "build" to "fill" a Burger King "uniform". Not all are plagued in such a way,as to allow them to stack a to-go bag with napkins,ketchup and another's respective order. Bless your heart!

Here's to your "tenacity" and penchant to "bask" in minimum wage paychecks,replete with "all" the goods "afforded". Hell...perhaps in 100 lifetimes you'll have shot half the rifles I have and finally quit guessing?!!? Until then,rest assured that I embrace your Imagination and all the "satisfactions" it grants you,hoping that you'll never quit Pretending about same.

Always a treat to get a glimmer of your "experience". Here I'll fast track you and the other dumbphucks with a few thousand words,all of which will stump you. Here's hoping it'll fuel your Imagination and bolster your penchant to Pretend.

Laffin'!

What are the two belted magnums? one has a 264 style neck and the other is the length of the 264. 7mm mag?

I'd buy a 338 Rock#3 and have it fluted and cut to 23in and build a 338-06. It will balance well in your stock. I would then choose either the 200gr BT @2850 or the 210gr Partition@2775 and go hunting. Both will be pleasant to shoot in that rifle and deadly to 400yds. Hunting Nut shows the 200gr sighted 3in high @100yds is dead on at 250 and only 3.5 high at 150yds. At 350 it's down 10in or a backbone hold and is still delivering 2114 lbs of energy. The 210 @2775 is almost exactly the same. powdr

7RM and STW.

Post some pics please would love to see them!

His dissapearing act was expected..........

Ackleyma'm,

You amazingly stupid dumbphuck...I do soooooooooo enjoy that playing dumb isn't an Act for you.

Bless your heart and the sanctity of your stupidity.

I knew you were watching and would be back........I don't think I"ll try to remove the hook I'll just cut the line!

But since your still hanging around post pics of all your elk taken over the years ....that's right you don't have any! Still laffin!

I agree with this. I had an itch for something different last year and rebarelled a .30-06 to .338-06. It's been a load of fun. It loves 200gr BT's & AB's as well as 225gr AB's. Mine prefers RL15. However, the one big mule deer I've taken with it didn't seem to croak any differently than those taken with my 7-08, .280 or 7RM.

Douglas #4 SS Fluted, cut to 24.75" (long story)
B&C Alaskan II stock
Talley LW's and 2.5-8 VX3

If I did it over I'd go with a #3, skip the flutes and cut at 23".

Since you shoot a .260, and mention a brake, am I correct in assuming that you are somewhat recoil-sensitive?

If so, .270 or .280.

If not, then I'd ask how far you'd like to be able to use this rifle. If max'ing out your reach is a goal, go .280 or 30-06. However, if you are more of a "400 yds on in" guy, I'd give real thought to 338-06 or .35 Whelen.

It's pretty hard to screw up on the '06 boltface. The ballistics gack that has Boxer horned up isn't real relevant inside 400 yds or so. But- recoil may or may not be a significant consideration.

I'd personally run a 22" barrel, 23" tops. Any longer gets noticeably cumbersome in the thicker stuff... for me anyway.

Good luck with your build!

All these pages of gyrations later, and the answer was given in the very first response.

As I get older, and keep feeling the desire to simplify and streamline, the more appealing the tried and true basics become.

Thanks for the comments.

Going to stick to the original plan and build a 280ai

Ordered a rock creek #3 fluted.

Right-on, that will be a killer. Are still going with a classic edge?

Yes going to use classic edge

I used a custom 340 Wby for ten or eleven bulls and for close to twenty years. It was 8.5 lbs all up and ready to go and even that got heavy as I aged and dreaded hauling it up the mountain. But I never lost an animal that was hit and the furtherest any went was about 30 yds in a tight little circle. Ranges were from about 100 yds to just under 500. I finally settled on a 210-gr TSX at about 3150fps. This cartridge along with a small handful of others is arguably the best large, soft-skinned game getter going. Long range or short, it doesnt matter, but one must know what they are getting into and be dedicated to investing time to become proficient with it.

But, there are many good choices from 270 up to 375 if you desire, depending on your preferences and hunting style with a bucketful of premium bullets now that if anything has made all of these cartridges even more capable.

One thing that happens here a bit is passing judgement on others' choices when they are radically different while reality says that armament is probably the least important factor. Being in shape, learning about elk and where they'll be and how to get there--hunting--and practicing with your choice at the ranges you feel comfortable shooting to are more important. No matter what one chooses to hunt elk with they have to be hit through the lungs/heart and no amount of magnum machismo will compensate for an inability to shoot well. Over the course of doing the above you learn what works for you and there are many appropriate answers.

Edited to add, I have moved "down" to a lightweight 284 and a 30/06, 350 RM, wanting to carry a little less. But I also have a 375 Ruger I would use if the whim hit me.

If I was to build a rifle for elk I would have to pick between two caliber. First would be the 338-06 next to the 280 Remington the 338-06 is my favorite caliber. I have also taken a good hard look at the 6.5-06, with this being my second choice.