I am thinking about getting into the wildcat world, so I just wanted to know what your preferred wildcat cartridge is and why you like it.

How much reloading/case forming experimenting experience do you have?

They range from retarded (300 12 Egg) to brilliant (6-284). I've owned both. FTR, 6-284 kicks butt. In the end, my advice would be to take the approach that you'll likely not find anything magic that a WC can give you over a factory offering. But they are cool. Case in point...I'm eyeing 22x47 for a build. It about duplicates 22-250, but we're talking guns dude. Logic is about 5th on my list of decision making criteria. Now go neck down 375 Ruger to .224 and report back.

Well tom264 I don't have any experience with case forming, but I have been reloading for a while now and although I am still young in the reloading world but I have some experience. As for the case forming I have a buddy who has done a little so this would be one of those things that we jump into together and see what happens and hopefully have a little fun in the process. Because in the end I would like to think that everything we do from target shooting, hunting and reloading is to have some fun and learn a thing or two. That is why I am looking for opinions and thoughts from as many people as possible.

Figure out what you want to do with the rifle first, then see if there is something available in a factory gun, or existing round that will do what you want. Building a wildcat just for the sake of building a wildcat seems kinda silly (not to say I haven't done it, but I realize now that it was a huge waste of time and money when an existing round was already available).
If you're still set on something expensive, I would recommend starting out with something like an Ackley Improved round.

I don't mean to dissuade you if you're set on the idea, but in my case, I'd much rather spend the money on a hunt, gas or a plane ticket to get to a hunt, or extra reloading components so I can shoot my existing guns that much more.

I see what you are saying there. To be honest this will be one of those things that it will be part of my growing collection of rifles and its different. I have all the calibers to deal with anything I might want to hunt or how I might want to shoot. Its like somebody who has a car collection and they all might could use some TLC but he or she will still go out and buy another car to add to the collection. I wont be dumping money fast into it, it will be a slow process that is for sure. But it is a project I want to take on. As for what I would want it to do I am not sure that is why I want to here about some of the other wildcats out there. Although in the end I would probably lean towards something with a lot of speed and a flat shooter. I would like to stay away from the .224 bullet but I would not rule it out if I found something in a wildcat that I couldn't turn away from.

Used to be into wildcatting.

The older I get, the less I'm into it.

Just retired a wildcat .375-338, which was one of the easier ones to form.

This is a want or need only in the winter.

Take a ride down south now and bring a laptop with you.

If you want fast and flat you could always do a .240 Gibbs or a 6mm/06ai or a 6mm-06(in order from the most work to the least). I had an 8mm Gibbs built for my dad some years ago and, while it is a bit of work forming the brass, it's pretty awesome.

6mm Gibbs

I have heard of a 270 ultra cat, how is that one to form, and does anybody have any experience with it?

You could go with a relatively obscure factory round ie 6.5x65 rws or 6x62 freres and have the european equivalent of a 6.5-06 ai or 6mm-06. Factory brass is available and you won't see another one on the range, at least most places

The simplest wildcats are those made from just fireforming standard cartridges in improved chambers. .223 AI and .22-250 AI are a good place to begin.

Those made by necking down standard cartridges are quite easy as well. 6x.284 is a great one.

Those made by necking up something standard and/or moving the shoulder get a little more complicated.

Those that involve shortening a case often require neck reaming because the thicker body of the old case becomes the neck of the new case.

If you want to try it out without having to be stuck with a gun you have no other way to feed, try making .22-250 cases from factory '06 or .308. You'll have to go through all the steps and see if it seems worthwhile, yet you can go buy factory ammo when/if you decide it was too much pain for too little gain.

Tom

This is some I have done. 2 on the left are based on 458 Lott brass with a 17 and 22 cal. size. The right is a 44mag case I believe with a 6mm bullet.



I used to make and sell case forming dies.
Mule Deer has a set of my dies and I hope in the future that he will have an opportunity to write an article on how you can make your own.



This is one of my older sets. I added 2 larger sizes to be able to reduce cases as large as .550

I've long liked the 6/06, 6.5/06 and the 7 Mashburn Super.

Dober

A wildcat that I've always liked is the .270 Mag.
My problem with the .270 Roy is the long throat, so rather than build one with a short throat, and have someone else have trouble, I'd chamber a 2.5(4?)-inch case with a long neck, but without the rounded corners of the Roy. It's been done before, but you're not going to be unique, anyway. Mashburn used a 30* shoulder, Ackley used either a 28* or 40*, and Juenke a 45*.
You can use 7mm RemMag cases by just pushing the shoulder back or trimming a .300 WinMag, or .300 H&H or Roy Mag.
The same thing can be done to a 7mm Mag, but it'd be an Improved case, instead of a wildcat.
Would I do it? Right now I'm working up a load for my new .270 AI, on an FN with thumbhole stock, so maybe later, lol
Have fun,
Gene

I can't answer for you, but the ones I'm interested in are the .22-204, .338-375 and .358-375 Ruger; .223 AI, .22-250 AI, .243 AI, and 7x57 AI; and 6.5-06 and .338-06. I'm not sure the last two are even wildcats anymore, I'm not sure if AIs qualify as wildcats.

7x57 Ackley. Simple, efficient, accurate. 3000 fps easily obtainable with 140gr bullets.

Have you given any thought to a .270 STW?

One I'd like to play with is the 6mm Atlas. 6x.284 is serious fun ... and I heard somewhere more is better.

I've fired, but not loaded or formed cases for, a "kwazy" .22 x .264 win mag concoction one of the other 'fire members cooked up. 4123 fps with a 55 grain ballistic tip. Gives me ideas.

How is the .270 STW what are you looking at for velocities?

I have a 338/06 AI I hunt with and a 6.5/06 AI in the build process at present.

Started thinking about what I play with.

.358 WSSM
.243 AI
And have a 6/223 contender barrel headed my way as I type.

I want a .223 AI.....course I'm going to smoke my regular .223 barrel first before I do that.

7x57AI or a 6.5-06 sound like simple enough wildcats to start out on.

Yep both are no brainers for forming..

Here's a simple one...lol
Left to right
.357 max - .357 mag - 38 spec - 38-.357 something or other???

Anybody every play with a 8mm ultra mag?

I fail to see the point, the .338 has a much better selection of bullets. I'd be more likely to go .338 Edge.

From my wildcatting experience I have retired. One thing I did learn is the benefits of less case taper & sharp shoulder angle.

400 Whelen is my favorite. The most efficient and effective use of the 30-06 case for a wildcat.

Mart

I've thought quite a bit about wildcats.

The one thing that always gives me pause is that almost all of the (at least at one time) standardized cartridges I day-dream about may as well be a wildcat. Heck, most of them might be worse because of their proprietary dimensions.

gijoetx
Alittle reading for you.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...h/true/Things_I_have_learned#Post3576960

People that know me here know I screw around with alot of different kinds of stuff.
Almost 20 years ago now I built a 25 Booboo.Based on the 8x68 RWS case.It would push a 100 pill at 4000 FPS.
270 STWs and Booboos and the like,have three things in common.
There expensive.
They have a very short barrel life.
And there alot of fun if you can get them to work reliably.

But for a tweener.
Something that will do it all.
Something that not everyone has.At least not yet.
Get yourself a 6.5x47 Lapua.
A short thing I did awhile ago about it.



dave

Wildcats are the Modeling Clay of the rifle world...you really can't make anything you can't already buy over the counter...but you have more fun in the process.

Do you wonder why I have 2 of them? I built my Grandson a 6X47Lapua. Great cartridges!

You've gotta have some idea about what you want to do with it. The Ackley cartridges are easy and a good step up in performance, but they're not really wildcats. You have small stuff up there in SD to shoot. As a truck gun the most used wildcat I own is a 17Ackley Hornet. One of them goes on every jaunt.

For a beginner into the wildcatting world ... try the 6mmx45. You can use once fired brass necked up, with 70gr pills its a great little varminter and economical, with 100gr it makes a decent and mild medium sized game cartridge. Dies are available. That's my pick of the easy to play with littlies, second is the 22/204 which is almost as easy to get along with and I now suspect a 6mm/204 would have been even better.

At the large end I built a 458B&M about 2 years ago and only started playing with it recently. I'm sorry it took me so long to get to it as its a brilliant cartridge and I look forward to hunting with it this year loaded with 400gr Woodleighs at 2300fps.

Be careful with wildcatting, it's addictive. Took delivery of a 17PeeWee on a CZ527 last week, and have a Rem700 action going out tomorrow to become a 358RUM.
Cheers...
Con

Yes Con, I can definetly see how this can become I slippery slope :-) . Where is a good spot to find ballistic information on some of the wildcat cartridges?

Honestly, better than all the books, better than all the articles, better than all the conjecture ... buy a copy of QuickLoad. It's database is immense plus you can create your own, and its predictions are sobering enough to damper many a wildcatters desires.

Wildcats for me are now more about 'packages' ... the 458B&M is a short action magnum matching 458WinMag velocities, the 458AccRel is a standard length cartridge matching 458Lott velocities ... the 6x45 is a light walking varminter 'with a difference'. The 358RUM ... nothing it cant do that a 338Edge cant do as well if not better ... but I'm entirely irrational when it comes to 35s. Was going to build a 6.5/250 as a cheaper 6.5Creedmore/6.5x47 but honestly ... I reckon I only have a few more wildcats in me to play with. Results are rarely better than what can be achieved with a factory cartridge, but the educational process is priceless, entertaining and well worthwhile. Mind you ... I have a 22/06 with 1:8" in the planning stages.

If you do want to get into wildcatting, consider a Savage action as you can swap barrels yourself, and it makes it a tad cheaper. Wildcats based on standard chamberings are also a tad cheaper ... my 22/204, 358RUM, 303/35 all use Lee dies opened up by the gunsmith. Cheap as chips compared to custom dies.
Cheers...
Con

Could be the single greatest quote ever uttered on the 'Fire .

I'm the same way with the 9.3's, although I love the 35's, as well. Ever seriously looked at the 35 Newton? That one calls to me.

pinotguy,
Two 35s really appeal to me (actually more but I'm trying to appear sensible) ... Dave Manson awhile ago sent me his reamer drawings for the 350G&H Magnum (x4 versions on file) ... the straight 35cal neck down of the 375H&H version would feed like butter I reckon and be simply sensationally good fun!! I've also located a reamer here in Australia for the old world 400/350NE which I'd dearly adore in a Ruger No1.
Cheers...
Con

CATBIRD 6MM-270WINCHESTER is my HUCKELBERRY 105gr AMAX,OR MY 25-06AI OR 280AI.

I like the way you think!

There's a guy over on Long Range Hunting that took a 6.5-284 case and shortened it to 6.5 CM length. I thought this was a really cool idea, though bound to be a pain in the butt to form cases. It has more powder capacity than a .260 Ackley, with more user friendly OAL/magazine constraints like the CM.

Not worth the case forming hassles to me, but if it were to be commercialized, I'd probably jump on it...

John

I forgot about a couple I have thought about on short mag cases... 6.5 SAUM/WSM, .338 WSM, .358 WSM...

I'm sentimental about the 219 Donaldson Wasp. It's the first centerfire rifle that I ever shot, my dad's old pre war M70 converted to single shot with a 16x Unertl. Despite being a royal pain in the ass to format cases for, you'll never run out of 30-30 donor brass and it steps right along like a hot 22 centerfire should.

What about 6mm TCU, it's a fun round to play with.

Big ugly what kind of speed are you getting off of the 219 donaldson wasp?

you can find a lot of wildcat load data by just googeing reloadersnest .

Go buy the newest edition of Cartridges of the World. You'll pour over it and get way too many ideas...

I will have to check those out. Thanks.

I used to be able to make a valid argument for the existence of many of the wildcats I worked with over the years, like the .17 Ackley Hornet, .22 Long Snapper, .22 K-Hornet, .22/.30-30 Imp., .250 Ackley Imp., .338-06, .35 Whelen Imp., .375 Whelen Imp. and the .411 Hawk. Now it's more difficult to attest to their usefulness, if there ever really was any. Despite the caseforming, die expense, and trouble, it was enjoyable at the time, but probably won't to do it again.

When you are ready for a serious long range cartridge, You can try one of my two wildcats I designed in 2004, based on the 500 Jeffery case...

375 Mjolnir (the Hammer of Thor) 147.8 gr case water capacity
338 Wolverine (the Alaskan Beast) 145.2 gr case water capacity

In the pic the 90+ year old big Jeff next to his mean and lean kids (necked down and not yet fireformed to a 35 degree shoulder, reamers in production)

case capacity is right in between the 375, 338 Snipe Tacs and the 338 Excalibur

That's some pretty cool looking stuff!

25 Krag, 17 Ackley Bee, 25-20 Improved, 219 Donaldson Wasp, 22/250AI, otherwise go with factory 260, 270 WSM, 30's and 338's. etc.

That would indeed be cool

Id go 7-08AI. Easy to form. Easy to modify a factory tube for. Great bullet selection in 7mm. Plenty performance from varmints to the bigger stuff.

I think I played with some of those forming dies, did not realize they were of your manufacture. They were cool. I usually can find a way to get my stuff where I need it by making a case specific tool. It would be nice to have a do-all. But I am losing my fire for wildcats so maybe I do not really "need" them.
BTW anything from 6.5 down built on the x47L case rocks. I have burned up a few barrels with the 6x47 and it is still my favorite. The 22x47 has toasted a few throats for me as well. I wish I knew what I know now about prairie dog hunting when I built those rifles. A 40 grain v max screaming out out of a 14T makes a beautiful mist, but is so fun to shoot that you cannot shoot slow enough to preserve the barrels. The 22x47 with a fast twist is pretty nice, but 90 bergers will not hold up to the velocity for long.

I always ask this on wildcat-oriented threads - Have any of you ever spent the money on a run of properly head-stamped brass?

If so, please detail your experience (what cartridge company, minimum piece count, quality of brass, price, etc) with this side of the wildcat game.