To recap, I was having issues with this one stacking first/third shots, and sending number 2 off randomly high left, low right, low left, straight high, straight to the side....really weird. Never repeated the same either.


Then I did a good solid cleaning. And went and did this.

120 TTSX, 44.0 RL-15, 2.235" Ogive, 7-08:



120 TTSX, 43.5 RL-15, 2.745" OAL, 7-08:


i think the tube just likes to stay clean. toward the end of the range trip today it started doing the 1st/3rd shots right on top of each other, with 2 a random flyer never in the same spot. so i just gotta keep it a little cleaner is all. not a huge deal.

After how many rounds does it start to spray?

How many total rounds through it?

happens every 40-50 rounds. granted, it's still holding just over MOA (1.25-1.5ish) when it does it, but as you can see, that's still well outside the rig's potential.

the good news is, it's very easy and quick to clean. a single run of foaming bore cleaner takes care of everything and it's good to go.

even after it was good and dirty, and opened up a good amount at 100, it was pinging my steel at 300 (8x8) without fail, and that was a 12-shot string stopping only to put 3 more in the belly each time.

prolly end up going moly just so i don't have to clean it religiously.


tube has prolly 75-80 rounds through it? maybe 100, but that's a big maybe.

I have been using Moly (and lots of 120gr Barnes 7mm bullets) for a very long time and I really cannot remember the last time I thouroughly cleaned a rifle barrel. This includes my varmint rifles in 222 and 223 that see lots of bullets down the pipe in a year.

All that to say, you are on the right track - both counts.

Glad your rifle is shooting well for you now.

You may not be getting it completely clean with the foaming bore cleaner if it's opening up that soon.

Do yourself a favor and schit can the moly idea.

I've had a few factory barrels that behaved better after a few cleanings with JB when they started to act up. Now they don't suddenly go awry after a small number of rounds.

Yeah, the foamy stuff is handy, but JB is wonderful stuff when you need it.

JB weld?

Bore paste. It's almost as clean of a procedure as tearing down a small block.

I'm well familiar. Asked in jest.

Ive got a Beretta Mato in 7mm Mag that would do the same thing. After cleaning it would shoot the first 3 shot group around a inch then the next two groups would be three shots touching or damn near touching. After that it would open back up shots 9-12 would be around 2" and then it would just get worse. Didnt matter what bullet, powder or seating depth.

Mollyed up some 140 Tsx cleaned the bore to metal and laid down moly. Gun now will shoot under a inch all the time and usually better than that. Point of impact doesnt change as it gets hot. Ive shot over five hundred rounds since the last time it was cleaned.

So from my perspective I would try the moly.

That would be great. lol.......

I do know a guy who left his muzzleloader outside and the bore rusted up very badly for the last 6-8 inches. He figured .50cal was close to 1/2 inch, so he took a 1/2" drill bit and reamed out all the orange gunk. No more rust, but no more rifling. He said it would miss a sheet of plywood from a stone's throw away.

hey it works for mosins. (grin)

IMO, if a barrel is in that kind of shape, it needs some Tubbs Final Finish polishing, as it is likely rough.

Or Some Moly and no more cleaning. More than one way to skin a cat.

I would eat moly on toast before I would put it into another one of my barrels. Terrible stuff that often required just as much cleaning or more than clean bullets.

DBC replaced moly anywhere I thought it was needed, such as rifles for high volume shooting.

Not saying you are wrong Ive just had opposite experience than you have in the three guns I have used it in. Like I said more than one way to skin a cat. Good day.

Pretty sure Obermeyer knows how to make a barrel. Something tells me it ain't a rough finish inside.

Well you pretty clearly have something wrong.

A couple barrels I've been around have done the moly build up then blow out deal. That sucked.

Most worked fine with moly, but not any better than with DBC, which is much easier to deal with.

You may be right. But, typically when your loads are doing this, a slight adjustment in bullet seat depth will solve the problem.

You start by examining the average of your groups shape. If there are 2 together and the 3rd shot out of the group, the OAL is too long for your rifle chamber and you need to seat the bullet deeper.

Seat deeper and repeat until the 3rd bullet comes into the group.

If the groups are large equilateral triangles, the OAL is too short so you do the opposite and seat out until the group shrinks.

Thanks for the remedial lesson. Now here's a recap since you weren't paying attention:

shots one and three land directly on top of each other. shot two is randomly elsewhere on the paper.

cleaning (with no other changes) stopped this occurring for a while. then it began again. seating depth never changed.

now do tell, how seating depth that never changes, somehow works part of the time but not the rest of the time, and it's shot number TWO, not three, that's errant?

Doesn't matter what shot it is in the three shot string that kicks out. What Reloader28 described is a normal occurrence, and the seating depth fix he described often works well.

The accuracy differences could be a result of limited sampling due to shooting 3 shot groups.

But....you said it's had quite a few rounds through it and this is oft repeated, so I suspect it could be a cleaning issue.

I agree with 'Loder's assessment also. You might try shooting a 10-shot group and see how many of those 2nd shots are really fliers.

Sounds a lot like a bedding issue to me.

^That.

You don't have to run all 50 of the bullets down the tube. You could run 5 of the 3 finest and see what that does for you?