I know we're splitting hairs here (but, that's what this particular forum is for, correct?), but I've been looking into a 25-06 Improved. I assumed I'd go the Ackley (40 degree) route, but I looked it up in Vol. 1 of his books, and he almost sounds kinda negative about. Almost like he was pushing folks towards the 257 Bob AI. Lots of talk about too overbore, hard ("quite dangerous") to fireform, etc.

Interested if folks think the Washburn 30 degree model lessens any of POA's concerns. One of the reasons I want to stay with 25-06 is a large amount of factory ammo that I would fire in the Impr chamber.

I'd go with the more common 40 degree Ackley version. Cheaper dies, all the benefits of the improved chamber. Otherwise, I'd just run a plain .25-06 and avoid the hassle.

I built myself a lot of rifles.
I have reamers for 25-06, 257RAI, 257R, 250 Krag Ackley, 250 Sav, and 25-35.

I also have rifles in 25-20 and pistols in 25acp.

I have shot 3 deer with the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved rimmed in an 1885 single shot with 115 gr Nos Bal Tips at 3050 fps.

One of them was the buck in the pic. It broke his shoulder. So it was bang flop, but anything but dead. He could not get up. That is the heaviest deer I have ever dealt with.

That's a pig. Good thing you took the saddle off of him first!

Fremont,

I have worn out two sets of PO Ackley's handbooks in softcover over the past 40 or so years. I am now working from a hardcover set I bought here.

I ascribe to many of PO Ackleys ideas, but some are dated. When Mr. Ackley was improving this and that, H4831 surplus powder was about the slowest powder commonly available. Thus, an AI'ed 25/06 was not much of an improvement over a smaller cased round. The 257WBY really got going with the advent of Norma's MRP powder.

Today, we have loads of powders that will make cartridges which seemed "over bore capacity" really sing and shout. H-1000, R-22, R-25, 5010, 7828SSC, Ramshot Magnum and many more.

The same action length one needs to house a 25/06 will also feed and extract 257WBY cartridges quite nicely. If one is building a 25 on a 30/06 length action I never understood why anyone would go with any other round besides a 257WBY. You can make the big round act like a smaller one such as even a 250 savage if you want to, but the reverse is not the case.

If you shoot a couple of deer with a 257WBY and a well constructed 100gr bullet you will realize what a fun round you have been missing. Bangflops and DRT's become more common than you ever could have imagined. Almost no recoil and loads of ZAP.

Good luck with whatever you build, and you only have to make you happy. But don't be afraid of the large case rounds due to 50 plus year old ideas about overbore capacity that no longer apply.

I have thoughts, not too sure why, but I want a 25-284 with 30º shoulders. The purpose of this round would be a 90-ish grain bullet with a good BC for LR 'chuck engagement. I really likes the looks of the 90 gr Sierra BK or similar....Just my thoughts in print here...not much to offer to the OP.

I agree with safariman. PO wrote that stuff when he had only a few powders to choose from. That effects the results compared to doing the same thing now. I would not hesitate to do a 25-06AI. I have two of them and have never felt like it was dangerous in the slightest to fireform and I have been happy with the round. It's not much faster than a standard 25-06 but there virtually is no trimming and I just wanted one. If you want one and have lots of factory ammo I would go that route without hesitation or stay with standard 25-06. I have no expierence the mashburn version. Plus both my 40* 25-06AI's are tack drivers. Shoot .25MOA so it's hard to not like the guns.

@5-284 is a great round, but it is like the others mentioned above, a throat burner.

I am thinking using as slow burning powder as possible would help out a bit. If I can get 1500+ rounds I would be happy. It could/would certainly be fun while it lasts.

25-06 AI or Mashburn?

Do neither!

Those are odd, other more successful cartridges are better.

Both the 25-06 and 257 Weatherby have caught on.

In Nosler #7 the 257 W has 7 pages!

Well said; thanks. Hoping to use a Ruger No. 1 for the project.

Do the .257 Mashburn,barrels are made everyday.

Would like to hear more on why Mashburn over AI.

I think you'll have limited responses to "Why a 30 degree shoulder (Mashburn) vs a 40 degree shoulder (Ackley)."

There might be a difference between the two, but they would both fire factory 25-06 ammo and then you'd have fire formed brass. I doubt you would notice an accuracy difference, or a velocity difference.

Not trying to dissuade you from your search, though. I vote Mashburn. Because it's unique, and once you have the dies and brass, there's really no difference in shootability between the two.

The Mashburn has more case capacity than the .25-06 AI.

If you want higher velocity's go to a bigger case.

If you don't,then stick with a .25-06.

With a 26" barrel in 257 RAI I was getting short brass life with 75 gr a 3900 fps and long brass life at 3500 fps.

I am not too cheap to throw brass away, but I don't like it if I have time invested in case forming.


That is why I am building a 25-06 in 2015.
I can get off the shelf 25-06 brass.

If only in fairness,I've gone through more .257" spouts than everyone else here bolted together and (5) in 257Wby alone. Hint.

Have shot more than a schitload of 25-06AI too,as well as a herd of 25-284's,25-06's,Bob's and Better Bob's. Hint.

There's no way I'd build another Quarter Bore today...simply because bullets matter more than headstamps and quarter inch schit sucks heavy ass in comparison. Though the 25's have always sucked projectile wise,everything else has greatly improved in the last 20yrs in comparison,while the 25's have been stagnant. The discrepency was less,a couple decades ago...now it is too painful to bear on purpose. Hint.

It is hardly daunting in anything cited,to headspace a false shoulder(280 Virgins in 25-06AI and 7mmRemmie Virgins in 257Wby) and yield perfect cases. Hint.

In long action I'd go 6-06 or 6-06AI,focus on 105's and slap all 25's fhuqking silly,in Precision,inherent ability to fend atmospherics and relative Oooomph...while boasting less recoil in the fray. A .530 or better BC at 3300fps +++ do not suck. Hint.

A 243Win will blow the doors off a 25-06AI slumming Factory Fodder. Re-hint.

Though in even more fairness...not everyone can take a hint and Joe Average sure as schit ain't very fhuqking bright.

Hint...............

When you decide on your caliber you can get noticeably longer barrel life it you give the barrel salt bath nitride treatment. It seems to be a 100% increase in barrel life.

This right here. Ditto. +1. Etc.

My most current (might be one back) Sierra manual has quite a bit of data for the .25-'06 AI FWIW, so you won't be entirely without data for pretty current powders.

Tom

Go big, or go home--Ackley all the way!

Really though, I'd sell your factory 25-06 ammo and go some other route such as what Stick suggested. Why piss up a rope if you don't have to?

In 96 I had a 25-06 AI built I had read what P.O. had said then I asked a lot of questions and the guys that were separating the brass was from not enough powder to blow it out they were trying to save powder and use some type of filler with there powder that was there mistake.

A 26" barrel with a long throat will do anything the improved versions will do and use standard dies and cases.

What happens if one uses "A 26" barrel with a long throat"?

Powder charges can be slightly increased and velocities go up accordingly 100+fps and more in some cases.


It is the same as comparing the 7mm Weatherby with the 7mm Remington but my original comment already answered your question.

I am a fan of the 25-06AI. It was a zinger with H43350 and 100gr TTSXs at 3400fps. I'd build another one.

fremont,

I love the Quarter-bores, especially the 257 Weatherby. That being said, I would forgo the 25-06 and any other variant's, and build a 6-06. Pull the bullets you have and simply pass the brass through a 6-06 FL Sizing die and you're good to go. Twist your barrel at 1-8, go buy some Berger 105 VLD's or Hybrids, a couple of pounds of RL-25 and live happily ever after. A 105 Berger at 3300 is a real eye opener. As a bonus, it will feed like butter through any 06' variant long action.

wbyfan1,

Imagining that cartridge, it seems to me like its wonderful feeding properties would be akin to those of the grand old 300 H&H. Shapes would be pretty similar, with an obvious difference in scale. 300 Hurt and Hurt....another rifle/round that I need to re aquire some day.

This schit is HILARIOUS! Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't...and all one needs to do,is pay out slack on the rope.

The 25-06 AI will happily squirt 100's crowding 3600fps from 24",if only because I've been around more than a few. A 23" 25-284 will make 3400fps with same. Though in fairness,I've only shot the chambering(s) from 22" to 26" and like most things,less is more. A 26" 25-06 cain't begin to hang with a 23" 25-06AI. Hint.

Now if only because you Do Nothing Dumbfhuqkers are exceedingly slooooooowwwww. Bullets matter more than headstamps and 25's simply suck in comparison. Re-hint.

The 6-06 will lazily scoot a .530 or better BC to 3300fps and there's no 25 that will begin to hang,with anything close to similar case capacity.




Same goes a 6-284,if only because they share like case capacities. Re-re-hint.




Again,in all things...the false shoulder is your BEST friend,whether belted,rebated,rimmed or rimless. Re-re-re-hint.

Now if only because facts are interesting and perspective is even interestinger yet.

The 257Wby/100TTSX at 3750fps launch behaves thusly,from a 250yd zero:

250yds 10mph drift is 4.3" and impact velocity is 2990fps
500yds 23.1" drop/19.2" drift/2338fps
750yds 87" drop/49" drift/1776fps
1000yds 222" drop/100" drift/1326fps

6-284(short action) 105 Hornie HPBT at 3325fps launch,from a 250yd zero:

250yds 10mph drift is 3.3" and impact velocity is 2846fps
500yds 25" drop/14" drift/2410fps
750yds 88" drop/34.3" drift/2015fps
1000yds 205" drop/67" drift/1662fps


Now a "lowly" SAAMI 243Win and that same Hornie HPBT at 3000fps,from a 250yd zero:

250yds 10mph drift is 3.7" and impact velocity is 2554fps
500yds 32" drop/16.2" drift/2146fps
750yds 111" drop/40" drift/1777fps
1000yds 261" drop/78" drift/1458fps

Interestinger than fhuqk,how that itty-bitty 243Win and it's 750fps velocity "shortcoming",manages to cross the 750yd line with more remaining impact velocity and drifts less from well inside the 50yd line,to well beyond the transonic slip. That as compared to the 257Wby/1000TTSX/3750fps melding,if only obviously.

In fairness however...the 300H&H is easily the biggest piece of schit 30cal going. Tough to swoon a full length H&H case,that only matches S/A performance. But it's easy for me to say,if only because I've shot 'em all. Re-re-re-re-hint.

If forced to suffer the bane of FL H&H hulls,the suck will assuredly be blown out of 'em. That too,is a hint. Hint.





Bullets matter more than headstamps,though ONLY for those who actually shoot.

A 20" 6BR squirting a 105 Berger at 2750fps,will reap more impact velocity at the 1000yd line,than the 26" 257Wby/100TTSX/3750fps concoction and do so,with less than HALF the powder(43grs less in fact).

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/538/ylyrLh.jpg[/img]

6BR and 7-08AI. I'd say a leetle sumptin' about the 7-08AI's .625BC 162A-Max at 2825fps,in comparison to the 257Wby,but it'd snap The Do Nothing Gang!

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/909/F7Mxd7.jpg[/img]

Yep,'nother hint.

Pretend ain't "real",no matter how badly you wish it to be.

Hint.

Good talk.

Laughing!..................






Addendum(s):

'fan1,

The Do Nothing Gang cited their choices and I painted that portrait with crystalline accuracy.

Not that they've any clue about anything...which is likely just one of MANY points.(grin)

Bergers are best when slow and I can't know anyone who spills more than a leetle blood,who guns 'em seriously for same.

I was long a 100XLC Fan in all my 257Wby's,as they had the metal,to have the mettle.

Pun(s) be intended.............









pat',

I enjoy a Guesser as much as anyone,so feel free to cite what your 25-06 AI(s) made velocity wise,as it WILL be fhuqking funny.

Points awarded in advance,for the Imagination and Pretend requisite,to concoct that ruse.

Do NOT let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt.

Hint....................

Damn Larry. At least keep it interesting and use a heavy(115VLD) at 3450 in the 257 Roy. 😃 The 100 TTSX has the BC of a brick.

Assuming a std 25-06 gets 3350 with 100 grain bullets (seems to be about the top end for them), I'd be very surprised if a 25-06 AI, loaded to the same pressure and with the same barrel length, gets more than 100 fps more speed.

While the TTSX might not be THE best LR bullet, (no argument from me there), it is one damn lethal bullet within say 500-600 yards.

As wbyfan1 has stated, I would like to see the above comparison made with like bullets.

Also, no argument from me that the .257 caliber is short on outstanding bullets for LR.

Yep, and very few of us have any business shooting at game farther out than that.

Highest BC and best game bullet are not always the same thing. Some would argue that they rarely are.

The flat point Monolithic Solids I used (and hope to use again) in my 416 Rigby on the largest game did not and do not have a very high BC, but within the prescribed uses, I would take one over a bucket full of High BC pointy pills.

At normal hunting shot distances, TTSX and similar are plenty fast enough and penetrate exceedingly well.