223 to 223AI worth it - 24hourcampfire

I have a tikka superlite with a 1:8 havent even put a scope on yet. Already have a 700 in 1:12 that shoots 55 lights out. Thinking about having it punched to the AI. Worth it?

If you want to get away from trimming cases, yes. Otherwise the performance increase isn't that much to brag about...i.e. Im getting 3400 out of a 22 inch barrel with 55 gr TTSXs...
3500 with 50 grain Vmax.

If you are thinking of shooting 75 grainers, there will be mag mods involved too...

I don't think you will gain enough velocity to warrant the change. I have had 2 rifles that were Ackley Improved a 257R and a 7X57 both custom made. I finally sold the Roberts but it was hard as it was an AI. I mention this because it's something to consider if you ever want to sell it.

Ah good point!

load the 223 up to full house nato specs or 65kpsi. since you have a factory gun and want to go fast with a 22 cal, why not just get a 22-250

No trimming is a worthy reason, added speed don't hurt nothing either.

There's a reason to not do 22/250, recoil, 40 percent increase in powder for 10% increase in velocity and shorter barrel life.

Of course anyone with half a brain would of course go 22/204 Ruger.

Well....yeah.....

one note about trimming, sinclair makes an insert that allows you to measure your actual trim length. I suggest doing that you will find you don't need to trim near as much as you think you do.

had one but was a target build too heavy for hunting. Happened on this tikka on a trade kicked the AI idea around cause of the 1:8 if it was a 1:12 wouldnt even crossed my mind.

Originally Posted by cumminscowboy

one note about trimming, sinclair makes an insert that allows you to measure your actual trim length. I suggest doing that you will find you don't need to trim near as much as you think you do.

exactly.

I've made chamber length checking gauges for a few rifles and most are at least .030" longer than max brass spec, one was .045" longer.
No need to trim until you are near that measurement and by that time your brass may have other issues.

I almost never trim brass after the initial squaring up of new brass.

I'm digging my first one and waiting on the second. 50's at 3,700 and 75's at 3,150 is a lot of fun. I think Steve Timm pushes 40's out at 4,000. That is certainly nipping at 22-250 velocities with less powder, muzzle blast, recoil, barrel length and not to mention available brass. Fireform loads shoot just as tiny groups as the formed loads. If a guy likes the .223 he oughta love the .223AI. It's just funnerer.

One Important thing about trimming brass is to always trim to a consistant length as carbon can build up in front of the case mouth and cause issues!

Nope. Spend $30 on a 3-way trimmer, call it done...

Originally Posted by cumminscowboy

one note about trimming, sinclair makes an insert that allows you to measure your actual trim length. I suggest doing that you will find you don't need to trim near as much as you think you do.

Just Do It ! Annnd that .223AI is a Sexy little Bitch

Rich

Thanks guys I think Ill go ahead and do it now the second questions any recommendations to gunsmiths?

I had Redneck do mine. Shoots little groups.

Man, this place is getting weird! Used to be a thread like this was good for ten plus pages. Where have all the good times gone?

223AI is old news, an itch I scratched, and didn't make the cut.....

I use to shoot the AI and had fun and a lot of luck in the groundhog fields. I shot 40's out of the 2 I had. I still have the barrels but I don't use them any more.
I shoot a 223 with a 1-8" now and don't look back. The AI was fun and you'll have a blast with it.

Mark

Originally Posted by cuttingducks

I have a tikka superlite with a 1:8 havent even put a scope on yet. Already have a 700 in 1:12 that shoots 55 lights out. Thinking about having it punched to the AI. Worth it?

I'd trip it and go Montucky,then punch it out to 223AI...and yield a vastly superior platform.

I prolly shoot the 223AI chambering more than a smidge and were there something better,I'd simply have a bunch of 'em. I'm currently gunning a herd of (13) 223AI's and have had 'em from 18-26". I'd never go longer than 22" again,mainly because I have.

Hint.

Over the counter,the Montucky STEALS the fhuqking show and the Hornie 75 HPBT a given,with the 75 A-Max being a possibility.

Re-hint.

It's far and away the most for the least,is easy on barrels,logistics make brass nearly free and the COAL latitude is never unwelcomed.

26grs of powder in a 22" spout,will scoot a 75gr to 3100fps+.

'Course...I just might shoot a few other .224" chamberings too,from which to extrapolate same.

Yep. That'd be another hint.

Hint...................

(Addendum: For THE Perpetual Window Licker)

SuperKchunt,

Nawwwwwwww...it's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy cooler than that.

75A-Max.

Be SURE to wax eloquent upon your hilarious version of "knowledge","results" and "experience",if only to yet again tote Stupidity to a place it hasn't been before. As per always,toss the pics in "your" album and feel free to say you gunned 'em,if only to add "substance" to your Imagination and it's Pretend.

PLEASE do not let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt,as you regale the masses with all the things you almost did,the wares you nearly did it with and all the places you nearly did them. Extry points awarded for plagiarized pics.

Laughing!

Bless your heart...................

cool

.

Here is my rule #1 as regards the Ackley Improved cartridges: They are obsolete, offering nothing that a standard factory cartridge will do, and with a lot less hassle.

Currently I have three Ackley's in the safe:

.257 Roberts Ackley - the only one that really produces a bit more velocity, if only the most accurate loads were above what the standard case can do.

.22-250 Ackley - even have custom chamber matched hydraulic forming dies. Thing kills every squirrel I point it at, but best accuracy is at 3,585 fps with a 50 grain varmint Grenade - the extra capacity isn't needed.

.35-348 Ackley - just a stunt for Siamese Mauser actions, duplicates the .350 Remington Magnum with extra steps of fire forming, etc..

Today we have many more cartridges available, and a tremendous selection of powders that Ackley could only have dreamed about. Going to all that work is a waste of time, but the cases still look cool.

I prefer the triple deuce myself...

Dangler,

You poor poor CLUELESS Boob.

Efficient case design is the last thing that will become "obsolete". The schittiest case design in a given diameter,is assuredly NOT that bore sizing's Trump Card. Hint.

1) Do tell about your Better Bob and wax eloquent on the receiver,COAL,spout selection(Make/twist),stutter something about it's throat and then mention bullets...if only for copious oblivious humor. Do tell about base/rings/glass too. Laughing!

Then dangle a picture of the piece of schit. Dare ya'!

2) Kudos on gunning a 22-250AI at near OEM SAAMI 223 levels. THAT is some fhuqking seriously funny schit! I've this hunch that ALL of my 22-250AI's(better than a half dozen) would happily crack 4000fps with 50's and bughole same. Though I happen to dote upon the 75A-Max at 3500fps,in said chambering. Hint.

1-7.7" Krieger 22-250AI 75SN at 3400fps+(lotsa bearing surface and stubborn obturation). Though the A-Max STEALS the Show. Re-hint.

400yds+ and single poke.

Pard's 1st Gen Ti 22-250AI contour/length duped in 3-grooved 1-8" 75'Max at 3500fps from last year.

400yds+ and single poke.

Again...take humor to the next level and cite the particulars of that POS and dangle a pic to boot.

Re-dare ya'!

Do tell how pulling a trigger adds ohhhhh soooooooooo much extra "work". There are NO extry steps at the press either,assuming one isn't a Drooling Dumbfhuck. Hint.

I'd hang a video of a 223AI with 3700fps+ 50's at 500yds+,gunning eggs...but them facts would be mean. Laughing!

You "hard chargers" REALLY get after it and "know" your stuff.

Wow +P+!

Good talk!

Cheer up,I just might happen to gun a couple/few more Improved chamberings.

Laughing!.........................

'BR,

Happiness is rebarreling a Deuce to 223,or better yet 223AI and flingin' 75A-Max. Though it's easy for me to say,if only because I got 'em all.

Hint...................(grin)

What powder are you using pushing those 75s?

cool

How hot can you get 50's in a SAAMI 223?

3,500?

How much diff in powder from 222 to 223 when loading heavies to box length?

'rZ,

Which chambering are you citing,in your query?

I shoot more than a few.

Hint................

SuperKchunt,

Nawwwww...MUCH cooler than that.

I'll feign my "surprise",that even someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,knows better than to muse ANY "particulars".

Bless your heart................

16'

Published SAAMI 223 Data that yields 3500fps with a 50grainer,is both easily sourced and replicated.

Hint.....................

'BR,

The Deuce cain't begin to hang,even in AR P-Mag trite confines. That pill is bitter to many,but Reality is rather unforgiving.

I've suffered multiple Deuces in 700's and Sako's both,all of which sucked heavy ass in comparison to a 223. Have of course had multiple versions of same in 223,to extrapolate. Have of course had even more in 223AI. Hint.

Hell...I fling 75's at 2750fps in a SAAMI 223 18" Krunchenticker,though my preference is Stoner S/S mags(for more than a few reasons and one of 'em is COAL latitude). 'Course,lotsa folks lean on things harder than I do,but that is where I like to run 'em in said platform.

A Sako Deuce is about the biggest piece of schit going,due both twist rate and mag constraints...along with the living handle and CM spout. Though in fairness,I shoot more than a smidge and weigh attributes that fly over most heads. Tough not to love 500pcs of brass delivered,for under 40 clams a pop.

Pass the Montucky and hold the fluff. Kiss,find pressure and rock on.

Montucky 223AI,OEM barrel setback and punched. Fireform 50gr loads at the 100yd line,confirming come-ups for a 225yd zero...with 1000+ MOA dumped in the erector,between pokes. (2) lots of ammo,with different powders.

Yet another.

21" 223AI and the "dreaded" case forming and loss of Precision. In nice conditions,it'll shoot under 1-1/2" at the 500yd line,with 50's at 3700fps+.

Damn top heavy Montuckies anyways!

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/908/8aLYMC.jpg[/img]

Laughing!

Now SuperKchunt will have even more pictures for her album..................

Sorry, .223AI. Just built one on the cheap and was looking for bullet/powder combos to start with.

Nice shooting Stick. My former 223s never impressed but all 222s and a 221 bug holed. Perhaps a K or T would change my mind.

L-461 seems right for MkIV

Originally Posted by SShooterZ

Sorry, .223AI. Just built one on the cheap and was looking for bullet/powder combos to start with.

I was running R15 with the 75s in my 223 AI. IIRC that's what Stick is running too....

Mine likes lever evolution.

Originally Posted by joshf303

Originally Posted by SShooterZ

Sorry, .223AI. Just built one on the cheap and was looking for bullet/powder combos to start with.

I was running R15 with the 75s in my 223 AI. IIRC that's what Stick is running too....

I know he has been gunning a lot with LEVERevolution powder.

Originally Posted by WranglerJohn

Here is my rule #1 as regards the Ackley Improved cartridges: They are obsolete, offering nothing that a standard factory cartridge will do, and with a lot less hassle.

Currently I have three Ackley's in the safe:

.257 Roberts Ackley - the only one that really produces a bit more velocity, if only the most accurate loads were above what the standard case can do.

.22-250 Ackley - even have custom chamber matched hydraulic forming dies. Thing kills every squirrel I point it at, but best accuracy is at 3,585 fps with a 50 grain varmint Grenade - the extra capacity isn't needed.

.35-348 Ackley - just a stunt for Siamese Mauser actions, duplicates the .350 Remington Magnum with extra steps of fire forming, etc..

Today we have many more cartridges available, and a tremendous selection of powders that Ackley could only have dreamed about. Going to all that work is a waste of time, but the cases still look cool.

My rule #1 about AI cartridges: They're anywhere from a small step up to a big step up (the ones I shoot are a definite step up), an easy win-win, a performance gimme.

If Ackleys are a hassle and "all that work," you're doing it wrong. If your .257AI isn't producing 25-06 velocity, you're doing it wrong. If your 22-250AI accuracy load is only 3585 and not 500 or more fps faster, you haven't a clue about this cartridge. Blame your own ineptitude.

Originally Posted by 65BR

L-461 seems right for MkIV

Not only "right", it's perfect. The 461 works like it was designed for a 221 case.

'Z,

'335 is a looonnnggggggg term default and I can shoot 26grs,in a R/P formed case with 400's and a moly A-Max smooch in all of mine.

The 75A-Max has no equal.

Hint...............

'BR,

The second schittiest boltgun I've ever owned was a POS Winny PF XTR 223 and it wouldn't Agg. much better than most of my Mini-14's(multiple generations). Never had a 700 not dazzle. A TikTac 1-8" 223 was a full blown piece of fhuqking schit too. Though in fairness my Sako TRG-S 30-378 was THE fhuqking turd of the Century and I'm still trying to get the smell off my hands a decade later!

A typical Krunchenticker wearing a FF tube,will routinely blow minds. 75 Hornie HPBT here.

DPMS Sportical here,Delta ring tossed and Hogue FF added. R/P hulls,400's,Re-10x,moly 50 Zombie,yada,yada.

Baby Sakos have less than ZERO luster,with a Montucky on the scene....................

'303,

Though I've shot over 500 pounds of Re-15,I never could like it in my 223's or 223AI's. It bridges too easily and won't make the speed of other flavors.

I've shot 128 pounds of '2200(old GOOD lot,slower than '335) in .378" boltfaces.

Still hearing good things about '335......................(grin)

'85,

The Squealer digests R/P hulls,400's,moly 75A-Max smooches in fireforming fodder at 3030fps,ala LeverEvolution.

It don't suck....................

'stalker,

Heard that rumor myself.....................

'mam,

The Bob sucks ass. The Better Bob sucks ass. In fact...all things on the fhuqking Times Fifty-Seven Mouser hull sucks ass.

This rifle was originally a Bob,I punched it Better Bob,then set it back and punched it 25-284. The 25-284 blows the works outta the water in all avenues,including COAL latitude,Precision and Ooooomph. 'Course it's easy for me to say,because I've got all the T-shirts. Hint.

Slapping around 400yd steel with my 24" 25-284 and flying ashtrays(90gr HPGK's),which suck serious ass(bought 5000 for caseforming,on a Midway bowout). Hint.

For conversation,the '284 is a bit more than a touch Improved,right outta the fhuqking gate. Hint.

My 22" 25-284.

My 23" 25-284.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/904/2nf9HC.jpg[/img]

6-284 is where it's at,with 105's at 3350fps in a S/A. It's everything my 6mmRemAI wishes it could be.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/196/jql4.jpg[/img]

It's never been tough to cypher who actually shoots a smidge.

Hint......................

'bore,

Take it easy on Dangler and her 50gr 22-250AI load,amassed with "all" her "knowledge","experience" and "results"...she's simply doing the best she can,with what incredibly fhuqking little she has to work with.

You obliviously make a good point,in that the 75'Max has no equal. With but 26grs of powder it'll make 3150fps and with a Litz default,drifts but 42" at the 700yd line and arrives same at 1700fps. 1500yd full value wind is but 5.1Mils and the drop but 21.3 Mils.

I reckon it plum handy,to gun things side by each,rather than fixate charts...though Chartin' is the best some can do.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/540/c3RNdv.jpg[/img]

Pass the 75A-Max 225yd zero and sub 35" 500yd drop too. Even with only 126.5 MOA remaining on the erector.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/661/eb545a.jpg[/img]

Hint................

Originally Posted by Big Stick

Though I've shot over 500 pounds of Re-15,I never could like it in my 223's or 223AI's. It bridges too easily and won't make the speed of other flavors.

500 lbs of RE15! Awestriking! .... I'm still working on finding some.

Thanks alot for all the pics and helpful info. Makes me want to have another 223AI built.

Stick, had a Deuce 222 in BDL sporter and a 788, both bugholed, yet a VLS 223 would barely crack 1/2, often 5/8 like a Howa Sporter. Btw, owned a M70 HB, Coyote? Seriously one of the WORST rifles ever, shot 2-3" - major issues in bore near muzzle. No patience to send in for repair so traded.

Do the K's still come QT?

Stick,

What is the average live weight of those mature bucks?

Are the Ktickers AI'd? How do you deal with COAL latitude on them? Just go to mag lgth?

Stick laid it out for you in his last post Turkish.

Good info folks, thanks. I have just about everything other than the 75s. Looks like I need to place an order.

Originally Posted by Higbean

Stick laid it out for you in his last post Turkish.

Thanks. While I freely admit I may be missing on the lingo, I don't see what I'm looking for. Can 75 HPBTs be made to kiss? Can 50 Zombies?

Originally Posted by Big Stick

Hell...I fling 75's at 2750fps in a SAAMI 223 18" Krunchenticker,though my preference is Stoner S/S mags(for more than a few reasons and one of 'em is COAL latitude). 'Course,lotsa folks lean on things harder than I do,but that is where I like to run 'em in said platform.

This part turkish.

Thanks, sir. I was looking at the wrong post.

Originally Posted by SuperCub

Originally Posted by Big Stick

Though I've shot over 500 pounds of Re-15,I never could like it in my 223's or 223AI's. It bridges too easily and won't make the speed of other flavors.

500 lbs of RE15! Awestriking! .... I'm still working on finding some.

Thanks alot for all the pics and helpful info. Makes me want to have another 223AI built.

SuperKchunt,

There's no need to reiterate that my 500lbs of '15 Reality...soundly trumps 500lbs of your Imagination and all it's Pretend. Just sayin'. Not that I don't enjoy the ever growing and amazingly long list of your exceptionally well founded insecurities,along with the poignant pontification of all the things you almost did,all the wares you nearly did it with and all the places you nearly did 'em. Them "particulars" are fhuqking hilarious! Bless your heart.

Looking forward to the next installment of your Vagina Monologue and The SuperKchunt Chronicles,as you boldly schlep Stupidity to places it's never been before. Congratulations?!?

Love the pics.

Laughing!.........................

'BR,

I've suffered 788's too and retain an Improved Improved one in CHeetah. Schit rifles,schit triggers and rear locking lugs on a centerfire are something to run from...not towards. Hint.

Been around a few Coyotes,in several versions and flavors. My CRPF 7Whizzum 'Yote was the best Winny I've ever had and though I hate Winchesters,I've had more than a few. Fact is,a bunch more than that.(grin) It was throated right and had the COAL to do it all and was a wicked bitch with 162'Max smooches at 3150fps.

Cain't source 'bucket now,or I'd dangle a pic...if only so SuperKchunt can add to her album. Laughing!

Haven't had a whole buncha VLS's,but have had multiple 223's,22-250's,Swifts and a 243. All dazzled and the 223's shone brightly. Had 'em in VS(Varmint Synthetic) and VSSF too,as well as Old School VS(Varmint Special) too. Have gunned 'em all in 223AI,22-250AI and 243AI,using the OEM spouts setback and punched,both in issued length and various chops,though no shorter than 20".

C-Note is an 18" Rock 1-8" 223AI and it still honks,with 75'Max better than 3050fps.

I'm ease in lopping spouts off with a hacksaw...if only to get Whiners whining.(grin)

Anschutz 54 22lr chop and 700 VSSF 308Win chop. The Annie lost 5fps,along with it's "choke" and gives zero Precision up to my one which was shortened at it's chamber end.

The 308 still bugholes.

At ease in hacking the "heralded" AMT OEM spouts too.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/834/v6no6.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/837/w1n1.jpg[/img]

Reminds me...I've got an Annie 1827B that needs The Chop..................(grin)

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/909/R1taq4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/673/TWQ6MK.jpg[/img]

'bird,

Some say 90lbs...though I wouldn't.(grin)

I've prolly gunned some Hogs.................

'kish,

Never have punched a Krunchenticker out,but prolly should.

You'll not find one that'll kiss a 50 or 75 and trite COAL is their bane.

Nice increases could be leveraged and it remains the most glaring void in the system..................

'Z,

The sooner you think bullets,the faster happiness arrives.

Hint.....................

Originally Posted by SShooterZ

Good info folks, thanks. I have just about everything other than the 75s. Looks like I need to place an order.

Get the 600 piece lot while your at it. I burned through my first 600 box in short order.

I hit the house this afternoon...for 2wks of Booners and Chrome.

There'll be a couple/few thousand 75A-Max launched in the fray(amongst other mainstays).

Film at 11:00........................

Good advice on the 600 box. Didn't know it existed. Think a 1:9" CBI barrel would have a hard time pushing them? Everything I've read seems like it would be fine, but I figured I would throw it out there anyway.

Originally Posted by Big Stick

There's no need to reiterate that my 500lbs of '15

You're posting lots of pics the last few days. Must be feeling "short" again.

That 500lb RE15 statement must get you up to 5'7 1/2", maybe 5'8". There's no escaping it, is there?

That's only +/- 87,000 rounds......

'Z,

NOTHING is for certain with a 9" and 75A-Max...some do and some don't and I have both. Have never seen issue with the 75HPBT Hornie and 9",even at 16" in a Krunchenticker.

Luckily,barrels are cheap...................(grin)

SuperKchunt,

I have the shoulders to happily be,whatever you NEED me to be,in order to salve your Couchbound Do Nothing Dumbfhuqktitude. Hell..you can't even remember the last time you were Outdoors. Laughing!

Better than a month ago.

Only (3) cameras in tow this AM...'12,1D3 and 'R21,but the tough decision is what arms to throw in the crummy. Thus far a Kimber/Marvel Unit 1 Conversion,BHOTP,Annie 1407 R,Montucky Baby BR,Goose Poop,LBBMFER,Rocktucky and a Dick Rifle are already onboard.

Prolly stuck in a rut dredging Chrome with a coupla 1141-S's and the newest GLX is a touch sad,that it hasn't landed 1000 victims yet.

Mebbe I'll get lucky and break another one today!

You just set on your kchunt,live vicariously,await the pics and repeat the mantra "I could too,I could too...I could too"...until you believe it.

Ooops! There's goes the rest of your "life".

Bless your heart.

Laughing!................

'bore,

Burned alotta '15(understatement) in all my 375H&H's and 375H&HAI's. Have gunned well over 87,000 pokes in 7-08 alone and am on the 5th spout upon a single receiver,in said chambering.

Few could begin to fathom.....................

(Addendum: For The Kanadian Couchbound Crowd)

Not a shabby start. Saw the first Bear of the R&R by 6:00AM this morning and managed to bump feesh...despite the CRAZY low water.

Hit the house right at noon,grabbing a bite and am tooling up for Booners this PM.

Bet it don't suck.

More film...at 11:00.

Laughing!...................

Hate to change the subject, but excellent blacktails there!