I am saving my money to have a custom rifle built. I read posts here often that rate McMillan as the best. I read alot of negative posts about HS Precision stocks, but I never read (Why?) the HS Precision stocks are not as good as McMillan. So, please tell me why McMillan is better than HS Precision.

Thanks,
lcwil1

The fit, finish, design, function, "handling", and overall quality of the McMillan is just that much better than the HS Precision.

End result of having a better product: likely better accuracy, definitely better handling, almost certain to handle recoil better, and, if it gets sold, a higher resale value.

That should about cover it.

The HS has a foam core.

The McMillan is layered fiberglass through and through.

Makes a big difference in stiffness.

GB

I have both hs and mcmillan stocks.The mcmillan are sexier than the hs but I have had excellent results with the hs. Keep in mind that the number of positive or negative replies is also related to the number of stocks out there.HS had stocked remington varmints synthetics for years by the thousands.A skim bidding job in an hs will also often improve the performance just as the bedding of a mcmillan.

What VAnimrod said: +10. I've had both-if you have average size hands I'd say you'd like the McMillan grip better than HS. From the ones I've weighed they are lighter as well (light fill).

I just bought an HS Precision stock for my REM 700 BDL/SS (338WM) from MidwayUSA. I am sending it back. It made the rifle very nose heavy. The balance moved from the recoil lug up about 3 inches. I did not like it. The quality of the stock was good, I just didn't like the balance. I have not had a McSwirly but I would save for one of those. Just my opinion - we all have one...

RH

I have both. They are both sturdy, accurate platforms. The difference to me is in the fit and feel. I like the HS Sendero stock for shooting from bags or a rest and the McMillans better for shooting off hand.

If I were building a long range praire dog rifle I could use an HS varmint stock, save some money over the cost of a McMillan and be very happy.

Hs ergonomics are horrific, and tend to amplify recoil. The aluminum bedding blocks are just an un-needed added expense, as they still need to be bedded. HS stocks are routinely heavier than they need to be (I think that HS knows that their stocks suck at controlling recoil, so add weight to mitigate).

Did I mention that the ergonomics suck on HS Precision stocks?

CAS, with you 100%...

I've always likened the HS ergonomics to a 2x4.

Reminds me of my Desert Eagle 44 and that ain't high praise.................(grin)

Can't stand my HS from the bench, or, offhand!

She now hold's a much coveted spot in the corner of my garage.

Huntr

I'd dump it on ebay to an unsuspecting soul... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ever notice how second-hand H&S stocks get about 50% of the new price, and second-hand Mickys get about 90-95%.

There's a reason for that.

The grip, for whatever reason, just doesn't feel comfortable in my hand + I don't care for the texture or feel of the material they use to make them.

I kind of like the Desert Eagle.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Here is a stock maker you might want to look at. I even prefer them over Mcmillan because they are lighter yet made just as well.
They wont chip as well.

http://www.rimrockstocks.com/

RH, You gotta be [bleep]' me, I put an H-S sporter stock on my BDL S/S 708 bout 3yrs ago and it balanced the rifle out just fine compared to the tupperware stock Remington puts on them rifles. Don't know how one can go from a lightweight tupperware stock, to a heavier H-S stock and the balance point moves forward. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Ergonomics and grip angle felt about as good as it's going to get, with any stock! I would never trade that H-S stock on that rifle for a Mcmillan. Plus the rifle shoots so damn good, and it's not bedded.
Stick, All I can is, you must have the nicest feeling 2x4s up in AK. Oh, and how much is Kelly paying you to say all this crap about H-S stocks? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You guys can have your Mac stocks, I'm using H-S, they work just perfect for me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
But, I would like to have one on hand so I could compare felt recoil differences. Just put a H-S on my model 70 '06, if I could get a Mac stock to borrow I'd be willing to compare, don't think Kelly would loan me one, though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
If I really felt less recoil I might be willing to sell the H-S stock. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Believe me, my arthritis would tell me right away. JAG

I've owned a half dozen or so HS and probally 2 dozen McMillans. For me the McMillan is superior because it offers many more & different styles, is not as heavy, is more durable, has a much better drop in fit, soaks up recoil better, has a wide array of colors in paint and molded in, has checkering available, and most important to me feels and handles better in my hands! Having said all that HS is still a good aftermarket stock IF it fits properly which I have had lots of trouble with. IMO McMillan is a cut above. 163bc

FAQ from Mcmillan:

25. How much do the stocks weigh? Generally, our hunting and sporting stocks all weigh 2 to 2.25 pounds. We do have the ability to achieve a specific target weight if additional weight is required. Our tactical and high power competition stocks are designed to be heavier. Since there are several factors that influence the final weight, such as the accessories you choose, each stock will vary in weight. In general, tactical and high power competition stocks weigh between 2.75 and 4.5 pounds.

H-S Precision stock:

Materials:
� Woven Kevlar� cloth
� Woven fiberglass cloth
� Uni-directional carbon fiber
� Epoxy-based gel coat and laminating resin
� Reaction injection molded (machine mixed) polyurethane foam, fiberglass reinforced
� Proprietary CNC machined aluminum bedding block chassissystem, designed by H-S Precision

Kevlar is a Registered Trademark of E.I. Dupont.
Features:
�
Non-reflective, non-slip baked-on polyurethane finish
� Uncle Mike�s sling swivel studs
� Uncle Mike�s Ultra-Mag recoil pad
� Weight � 2.25 pounds, sporter and varmint styles; 3.5 � 5 pounds, long-range style.

JAGOFF,

I'm not kidding and I'm employed by USN not Kelly. I'm pretty easy to please as long as the stock is balanced. I couldn't quite believe it myself so I put it away in the gunsafe for a couple of days and came back too it. Same result. I then put the original stock back on it to check the balance. It was back where it belonged. The only way I can see that the fulcrum point moved was a much heavier forearm. If you noticed, I liked the stock jusn not the balance.

RH

Gale was selling stocks as fast as he could make 'em,before I purchased my first.

Kelly is doing just fine now,for the same reasons.

Ergonomics are subjective,but what aint't subjective,is if you line up a herd of guys,with a herd of rifles and quiz the masses on what sucks and what don't and more importantly why.

I've yet to see a single soul,be it a green as a gourd newb or someone pretty Shooty(Technical Term),bypass the McMillan offerings and leap to the HS.

Had the tools to run the drill lotsa times and penning a 100% concise prediction prior to the fact,is like rolling today's dice on the lonnnngggg odds of stating with 100% accuracy...that the tide is gonna change.

Now I know guys who THOUGHT they liked HS(because it was all they had or used),until they made direct comparison,via physical contact and trigger time behind a coupla McMillan handles.

Ignorance is bliss..........................

I own a few of both. There certain styles of stocks I like in both. I really like the HS Model 7 stock as it fits and handles really well. I also prefer the HS Precision tactical stocks to my McMillan A-2 and A-3. On most other sporting rifle styles I prefer the McMillans. I don't have one of the latest McMillan tacticals yet and might prefer them to HS but don't know yet.
I guess in general I would rate HS stocks as better than most and McMillans are one of the very best. Since HS stocks are usually less expensive and don't usually have a waiting time listed in months like the McMillans sometimes do, there is probably a place in the world for both..........................DJ

I can afford the used HS Precision stocks. I will probably never be able to afford the Mac's.

At a used price you sure do get a heck of a nice stock. And no one can argue that they ain't rugged seeing how many are fielded in the US Army. I like the feel of the police stock on my 308. But like Stick said- I have never in my entire life even seen a McMillian up close and personal much less shot one. But for a scraping struggling hillbilly I count myself rich to have a few HS stocks. I am real happy, and I hope to get a few more along the way.

To me, McMillan stocks are a lot like tattoos. They can be done up with a lot of individuality, stings going in, takes awhile, Always say this will be the last one, and I'm soon contemplating what will be next.

I've outgrown the tattoo habit, after a dozen or so. Still got some McMillan ideas left to do.

I don't do plastic stocks... But have bedded many for a number of folks and handled quite a few in the process. Bought a number of Mickeys and sold or traded them all away. Shot a bunch of them in a bunch of fairly active recoilers.

I did not dump the plastic stocks because they did not work or did not feel perfect... but rather, just because they were not wood. I have one Mickey in hiding actually that I have not gotten rid of... I just cannot bring myself to use a plastic stock.

Anyway, I have handled a wood stock or three and shot a ton of them. The stark difference in the handling characteristics between all the Mickeys I have handled and the other plastic stocks is simply huge.
art

Art,
Do my eyes deceive me, or was that just a kinda - sorta - not real neagtive commentary on plastic stocks?

You're getting closer to coming over to the dark side, my friend.

DJ, dittos on the HS tactical, I think the palm swell is just right and the forend works great on bags or prone with a sling.

CAS
Long way of saying I have seen enough that a Mickey would be the only plastic stock I would consider at this time... But I am a long way from going there!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
art

I'm going to list an H.S. Precision PSS stock with accesories in the classifieds, priced to sell today, in about two minutes...............

I've had good results with the PSS and Sendero Stocks made by HS. They can be picked up as take offs for a good price and I have been satisfied with the fit and feel.

Frank D

Plastic? That's funny.

Calling a McMillan stock plastic is about as accurate a description as describing a walnut stock as cardboard.

All I can say about McMillan stocks is that I recently got to handle a few (courtesy of GeorgeS3) and could tell immediately that there is a world of difference between them and everyone else. Balance, handling, feel, weight, solidity, inletting ... McMillan wins in every category ... and besides that, they hold a very high resale value, ... they are tough as nails ... and they can be "custom made" to your liking regarding weight and color scheme.

I placed an order for one the next day, if that tells you anything... For reference, I have an HS Precision VSSF take-off stock on my .223rem right now. That stock is going to be replaced by an A5.

Now I also agree with the others that the HS stocks are way better than just about everything else, and I'm not unhappy with mine ... it's just that the difference between the McMillans vs. HS is at least equal to the difference between the HS vs. injection molded plastic.

Art and his incessant harping about his carboard stocks....

When will it ever end????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

All I can say about McMillan stocks is that I recently got to handle a few (courtesy of GeorgeS3) and could tell immediately that there is a world of difference between them and everyone else. Balance, handling, feel, weight, solidity, inletting ... McMillan wins in every category ... and besides that, they hold a very high resale value, ... they are tough as nails ... and they can be "custom made" to your liking regarding weight and color scheme.

Funny, I feel the same way about my H-S stocks. JAG

"Feelings" is emotions. "Yielding" is tangible.

I'll take tangible,to go.......................

"The aluminum bedding blocks are just an un-needed added expense, as they still need to be bedded"
----------------------

Dave Domin at HS Precision said don't bed em, just torque em to 60 inch/lbs. He was adamant, said that bedding them voids warranty. Nonetheless I had my 243 bedded, and my 308.

If you have the bedding blocks and the bedding rail, seems mechanical-good to me?

What am I missing. I like tight. What do you torque the Mc to?

I'd probably say that too if I had a bunch of money invested in something that I was trying to sell and use to differentiate myself from my competitors.

They probably use the threat of a voided warranty to dissuade users from doing it so that they can continue to hide the face that their system is inferior.

Two mass produced, machined parts, made in different places by different companies are never goingt o fit together as well as a bedding job custom fit to the specific stock and action in question.

I torque my McMillans white knuckle tight, and don't mess with them afterwards.

So you "feel" that your HS stocks have a high resale value? You "feel" that your HS stocks are customs made? You "feel" that you can have your HS stock built to any weight you want?

Hey, perception is reality, and if you want to "feel" all that, while those in the know, KNOW the opposite, have at it.

I did not say "feelings", I said, "feel", means :BELIEVE, THINK. Or, if you wish, :to have a marked sentiment or opinion(^s strongly about it) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Who do you feel is currently using HS handles on their builds,other than HS? I feel the percentage is dismal,compared to the feel that McMillan has in that arena.

I feel there are valid reasons that Top Flight Builders,share my feelings,regarding the feel of HS proper and that they feel compelled to offer alterior componetry,to award their Customers a warm feeling.

Would be curious to read your feelings,on the matter,if you feel up to it..........................

No doubt there are alot more builders out there using kelly's stocks, they must "feel" his stocks will give their rifles an "edge". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My feelings,exactly............

Not the first time Jagoff has been defensive of his HS handles.
Myself, I place HS no better than a distant third, rated solely on the overall pleasure of shooting. My single HS stocked rifle is as accurate as anything else I own.

Nor is it only HS stocks he has tried to swim with countercurrent.

DixieFreedom, I own both. Have a HS on a custom 300 Win built by Bob Hart. It shoots superbly. Use it out to 1000 yds. I have three Mc's and they just feel/handle much better. For non wood stocks I probably will stick with the Mc's, even if it means fewer guns. Just my experience.

Last month I recieved my first "custom stock". After a five month wait, I recieved a package from Phoenix, Az. My Lazzeroni Sporter stock is a work of art and it feels better that it looks.

all these postings only prove that stock fit ,quality, and performance are 100% objective.price wise you cannot compare hs to mcmillan or any other higher priced stock.I have not had any problem getting either to perfrom to equal levels.To compare balance you also have to make sure lenght of pull and barrel weight are the same.I agree my hs on rem700 varmint tend to be nose heavy but a contribute partly to heavier contour and length.I also agree that the mcmillan are sexier.

Well, Went to Gander Mtn friday night and saw a couple Remington KS mountain rifles,(Mcmillan equipped, of course) got to admit, they had a very nice feel to them, probably have to say they felt better than my new H-S I just put on my model 70. Though I don't know if the KSs have a better feel than the H-S on my 700 S/S 708. Would Almost have to take it to Gander for a comparison.

The 708 shoots really well and feels as good as it gets with the H-S stock,(for now) that even if the Mac felt better, I doubt a sell would be in order. I just may have to ask the Gander folks if I could do that comparison. JAG

I have an H-S on a sucks DM. The grip is a little too "open" for my tastes although otherwise the palm swell is nice and the rifle shoots better than with the original wood stock. I have 3 Mc Hunter stocks that I like very much. I also have a Mc mountain rifle stock that I feel the grip is too small for my hands and I don't like it as much as the Hunter stocks. I don't think either one will shoot better than the other. Mc stocks look nicer, and feel nicer, but are more expensive. I think individual preference of the fit of the particular stock is more important than if it was made by Mc or H-S.

Fast Ed

go to the mcmillan website and you will find that the mcmillan does contain foam to reduce weight as is common with most non wood stocks.