After three trips back, the 'smith finally told me to pound sand. The rifle is now at the barrel maker's, they wanted to give it a whirl. I think this gun has broken me of the desire to ever build another gun. It has been almost a year of this B.S. Gun shot great before rebarrel, now it doesn't.

What's been tried:

1. Five scopes
2. Bedded three times
3. Two different recoil lugs
4. Several different bullets
5. Three+ ring/base combos
6. Ammo from three different hand loaders
7. Recrowned.
8. Three different shooters.

(Action was trued by a very reputable smith during the original build.)

I was going to take a pipe wrench to it, but the barrel maker really wanted to try it first.

I'm not even blaming the barrel maker, but barrel and stock are the only things left I believe. This really has been an enigma. Not to mention a year long headache...

Shot like this before the new tube.



Rebarreled by a different smith and now shoots like this:







The second smith implied I am not a capable shooter. Here is how I shoot my factory Tikka:

Pulled the final scope, threw it on my 223AI to fire-form some brass...Pretty sad that a factory Ruger sitting in a boat paddle stock, outshoots a custom while fire-forming!

Is that the Savage 6.5-06? You need to toss that in a ditch and move on. Life is too short.

No, that gun is long gone. Still have the action...want to buy it?

You mentioned different bullets what about powder, primers, brass?

Mike

6 Creedmoor...H4350

105 Scenars
105 HPBT
105 Berger Hybrids
95gr Ballistic Tips

Hornady brass.

WLR, CCI200, 210M

Hmm, that bites!

Mike

Screw the 250 barrel on it and see if the platform still works as it did...what kind of action and stock is it....

Yeah, I had a similar dog that wouldn't hunt. Built it myself with a custom barrel from big time maker. Turns out that the 1:10" twist was far too slow for 6mm lead free bullets, or long heavy weight lead core bullets. Thing wouldn't shoot better than a Whamo slingshot. Boosted the twist to 1:8" and found the holy grail. Problem was me, I had to learn about twist rates.

ha, I still have the barrel, but the second smith kept my recoil lug that went with it, claiming it was bad. I don't remember the thickness, but they installed a thicker one. I now have to get another lug that had the same thickness of the original for it to headspace.

Action is an M700, McMillan stock, Timney trigger.

Barrel is 7.5 twist...cut rifled. (not going to mention names)

Group Diagnosis


F'ed up dies? Action screw torque?

LIke 16bore said, are you getting alot of run out when reloading? What dies are you using? Neck tension?

Nice site there...good reference.

Replace the barrel.

The original barrel shot .256".... why pull the barrel??

I chased my tail a time or two.....

I had one barrel I was never really happy with. And I don't think it had to do with the manufacturer.

But trying to convince the 'smith would have been an act in futility so I ended up just having another 'smith rebarrel it.

I've also gotten rifles back from reputable gunsmiths that looked like they were bedded by piss drunk spider monkeys.

I think some reputations are more legend than reality.


Travis

A lot of runout will do it, invest in a concentricity gauge. Beyond that you've tried everything else that should be a problem. If it's not that then it's likely the barrel. Even the best barrel makers put out bad tubes sometimes. I've had a couple from top named makers. It happens.

Lilja?

He said cut rifled. Ain't a Lilja

You are a lot more patient man than I am. It would have been in the bottom of the river a long time ago...

Guess I missed that part.

Dogcatcher, you oughta try a PacNor. They aint winning any competitions, but they sure would shoot better than what ya got.

Why didn't I think of that?

Because I am stupid, ha.

And because I have too many varmint rifles. It didn't get shot much anymore, and I really wanted a 6-something.

The second smith did a real bang up job bead blasting the barrel after the third trip back. Got aluminum oxide inside the bore too...

How many smiths has it been to?

If all they touched was the barrel, get you a lug for your 250 barrel, screw it on, make sure it shoots and give it to some kid...will make them happy and get it out of your sight...lol

dogcatcher,
I suspect the problem is a crappy installation!

Even if the receiver had been properly trued and threaded from the first barrel installation. Your smith could have taken a good aftermarket barrel and threaded it in a way that resulted with the barrel not screwed on straight to your receiver.
OR when he cut the chamber, the reamer may not have been concentric with the bore.

The only path to satisfaction I can see for you is to have another smith install another barrel.

At times it is hard to agree with Travis because he is usually a bit extreme on most of his posts, on this I could not agree more. I have had more custom guns built than I care to count. the worst by far was built by a legend Darrel Holland.....some claim he is deity, but the gun he built for me is not to par with an off the rack factory rifle for MUCH more $$$$$$$

Bingo. And it could very well be that the barrel is fine and simply needs to be properly installed.

The only reason I kept dicking with this is because I paid for the ".5 MOA accuracy guarantee."

Its only a guarantee when they provide a target and load data.

I can't believe that any reputable gunsmith OR barrel maker would allow such a fustercluck. Pretty easy for parties involved to 'find no fault' in the gun..... when they don't actually shoot it.

I'd out everyone involved in the gun.... barrel maker, all smiths involved, etc. Phug'em..... somebody should have stepped up to the plate and put a new pipe on the stupid thing. I own a business, I know that I occasionally fhugk up.... even when the work is solid, it can simply be an issue of perception vs. expectations. I have to eat some crow, and a little side of schitt with it, when that happens. It may even have been some other contractor involved that was ultimately responsible for the issue. But at the end of the day.... my name is on it, and I was at least partially responsible for creating the perceptions and expectations. And, it's my name that gets dragged through the mud when I point fingers or shirk responsibility.

Everyone can provide exceptional service when everything goes well..... what established and maintains companies, is their level of service when things go haywire. I'd much rather lose the $500 in parts/labor to rebarrel the gun.... and take it on the chin, publicly or privately..... than lose the thousands of dollars I never get the opportunity to earn, based on a poor reputation.

If and when you find a good smith let's say for example Robert Gradous..... keep using him!

Recently when I wanted three rifles worked on, two rebarreled and chambered and one built from the parts I supplied, I asked around. No one had anything good or bad to say about R&R Gunworks in White City. I figured it was worth a try since my regular 'smith would be a year or more out. The rebarrel on both the Weatherby and Savage needed the bolt faces opened. He did an excellent job; except the feed ramp would not allow the cartridge to feed slowly from the magazine in the Weatherby. He corrected it quickly and with no charge.

I sure can't say the same about Brown Precision. I think the guys name is Mark, but don't remember. I tried two different powders, two different bullets, and two different primers. I was getting 3" groups at 100 from the bench. I used to do that off hand. Finally after several conversations where he took no responsibility and questioned my ability to shoot I contacted my credit card company about the lack of cooperation and the three grand. She said, "The sooner he gets the rifle back the sooner you get your money back." He wanted me to pay him $700 to get my action back.

I took a differnt action to a local guy. The first five shots at 100 yards were 15/16". That sort of thing teaches me the experts are not from out of town.

The one thing I will say is, the barrel maker has been very receptive thus far. They are acting very professional, and are eager to shoot it.

The gunsmith literally told me he ordered a barrel for it last November. Then called in March and said he was going to install it and noticed the lug was bad. When I asked why they didn't simply put the new barrel on he claimed he didn't have a barrel, never ordered a barrel, and never spoke to me about a barrel! WTF?

I'm to the point in life where the barrel maker is the one that will chamber and install. No fingers to point anywhere.

Sunk cost. I'd move on.

Yep - Hind sight is 20/20 - Shouldn't mess with an accurate rifle!

If your SURE there no magic acorn to find - Sell it and cut your losses but don't be afraid to build another.

I had a 280AI that Dwight Scott did, gun would shoot patterns not groups not matter what I did. He would not do chit to help either..... Didnt hardly chamber a factory round, just a train wreck of a build.

Did anyone borescope the suspect barrel to see what it looked like?

Nope, chamber was suspect from jump. Had Karl bed it twice with no joy. Since the smith was zero help I sent it down the road. Less grief to build another

I've had a couple headache builds, one drug out for over 2 years. Sad thing was one was a full custom. I'm done with the full custom deal and sticking to semis from now on. Just received a blueprinted SS 700 with PTG bolt for my next build. Got the Rock and Ti in hand as well, just need to send it off to a plumber.

Got one now that's suspect. Remington action that was blueprinted on some fancy schmany equipment. Has a Krieger barrel installed with a brake. It seems like the best the gun will do is about 3/4 MOA. Stock had some schmany bedding and it shoots no better than when it was a factory barrel....Why'd I mess with it?!

Gun has already been back to 'smith twice for 3 issues:
- Barrel channel was touching barrel and had to be relieved
- 8-40 scope base screw would not sit flush in picatinny rail
- trigger guard had to be relieved due to trigger binding

'smith supposedly does great work but I'll go elsewhere next time.

Curious what the difference is between full custom and semi's to you? A custom action?

Did you ever get the .257 Roy situation worked out?

I'm starting to think custom barrels are like custom wheels on a car...

A solid factory rig in a decent stock with decent load development is plenty capable of 1/2 MOA.

Except for Tikkas, which will do it in Tupperware.

I've never really paid any attention to which make of barrel I use. I must be lucky.

My POS Tikka defies logic. It pains me to admit how well it shoots.



Travis

20 minutes and a soldering iron makes for functional "checkering"

My tikka is a custom killer.

Yup..... my 'custom' .260 hasn't seen 50 rounds since the CTR arrived on the scene....

You guys are killing me with the CTR talk!

I believe stainless is going be available for 2015.

Stop teasing me!

I have a 280 AI that Dwight did 20 years ago.
And a bunch of others.
Hart barrel.700 action.HTG stock.3-12x50 S&B
140g Ballistic tip with 58.5g of N204.
Last time I shot that load it printed a 1.5 group.
At 500 yards.
Interesting stuff.

dave

I've been fighting a 30-06 I had done over a year ago. 10 twist cut 4 groove, match reamer, full single point trued rem action and I even paid to have the smith bed it. I've tried 3 different scopes and mounts and dozens of loads. Finally bought a tikka T3 stainless when they were on sale locally for $479. Load 6 loads each of 4 different bullets and head to the range shooting 3 through the custom and 3 through the tikka back and forth. The tikka shot them all under an inch with two groups under 1/2 inch and the custom averaged about 2 moa with the best group being 1.4" ish.

I have a 300 wsm custom with the same brand barrel and chambered by the same smith that's probably the most accurate rifle I own. I bedded the 300 wsm. I'm going to call the smith and see if he'll put one of my new blanks from another manufacturer on it. I think it's a bad barrel and is a little loose. It shoots fast but no accuracy. I hate to pay for it all over again but if it's a bad barrel it's not the smiths fault.

I'm about to the same point as steelhead and just want the manufacturer to install it. That way there's no finger pointing. Unless you bed it yourself.

Bb

Build enough custom rifles, or have enough after market work done and eventually we will run into rifles that give us fits or simply don't perform. I've had them...most every body has.Sometimes it's the smith, sometimes the components.

Not a bad idea to have the barrel maker install. When possible i like to see the rifle built by one shop, start to finish.

Usually we build to get something the factories can't give us. If a Tikka or something else does fine for us and performs well,a custom is a waste of time and money.

My dad had a CM Douglas barrel chambered in 225 Winchester put on a Hi-Wall. I couldn't get better than 2 MOA out of it no matter what I did.

Sent the barrel back to Douglas and received a new contoured barrel back and it now is about a 3/4" gun.

Douglas sure stood behind that one.

Receivers are usually not an issue, until that rare occasion when they are. The bedding, barrel, mounts and other usual suspects have been tested on this rifle. Maybe its time to consider that the receiver may be a little flaky. I don't mean out of spec but that it may have issues that show up only under the stress of firing.
It's been a few years back but a poster on here mentioned he had a NULA that wouldn't shoot. After some back and forth it was discovered that the heat treat on the receiver was not to spec (too soft) and that was causing accuracy problems.(NULA starts with heat treated stock to mfg. the receiver. They received some bad stock as I remember the story.) New receiver=problem solved.
The British SMLE was capable of very good accuracy but has that flexible receiver. The way I remember reading that story, the armorers for the shooting teams would start by picking known accurate rifles to rebarrel. Putting a match barrel on a known shooter worked well but putting a good barrel on a random receiver was a crapshoot.

Yes Sir, custom action.

Not yet, but it's at a real smith now being turned into a 7STW.

Thanks for the response and I hope you get your situation worked out asap.