I am sure we all have had on occasion to view a beautiful rifle with great wood and metal built by an unknown builder. Usually priced fairly high because of the build. My question is what is the appropriate amount to spend on a rifle like this vs a rifle by a well known builder. I know hard to say.

I am currently looking at a rifle built by WA Sukalle. I believe price is a little high as it is knocking at 2K. I have bought another rifle built by Sukalle and only paid 850. I own several rifles built by Charlie Flaig. I believe he is better known locally than nationally.

The whole thing boils down to whether I am buying as an investment or just out of the love of the work.

Unless you are looking at a custom rifle built for, and used by, say, Jack O'Connor, the seller is never likely to recover the initial build price of the rifle.

If you look at the prices commanded by some of the top rifle makers today, you are in the tens of thousands in some instances. For that kind of dough, a customer wants something built specifically for him, and is not likely to spend those kind of bucks to buy something built for someone else.

IMO, unless you are buying at dirt-cheap prices, it's not an investment. Consider it as buying art, doing so because you really like it.

Well said - and spot on..

The OP's statement about $2K being a bit high was interesting.. My wife's cousin, before he retired, was building rifles that brought $25K. I saw one of 'em back in about '99 and was completely awed by the craftsmanship and time dedicated to end up with that magnificent rifle.. That stock alone had to run at least $10K alone. NO WAY would I ever actually HUNT with something that nice.., much less take it to Africa (it was a .416 Rigby).

I guess the point I was trying to make and the question I should have asked....if buying a piece of art would the artist name ,WA Sukalle, make the piece worth more than an unknown builder whose work appeared equally as good. I have seen many pieces that were beautiful and the artist unknown. Would one pay a premium for a known maker instead of unknown.

The artist's name can enhance the value. Actually a Sukalle is a nice rifle.

A follow-up to my previous post-

I bought one of those full-out custom rifles, some time past. It was a Ruger #1, built by such artists as stockmaker Al Lind and metal engraver Ray Viramontez, and fitted with a Shilen barrel. It was offered by Guns Magazine as a closed bid auction, proceeds to benefit the Olympic Shooters Fund. No, it wasn't built specifically for me, but from the photos and descriptions, it was something that really appealed to me.
Mine was the high bid, and once the rifle was in my possession, it went into my gun safe, where it stayed for a number of years. I would take it out occasionally to clean it up, or show it to friends, or whatever. Then, one day it occurred to me that it if I didn't shoot it, the rifle was nothing more than a museum piece, that I would never recover my money from, tax deduction notwithstanding.
So, I mounted up a scope, fireformed some .280 brass into .280 RCBS for which it was chambered, worked up a load for it, and took it elk hunting, where I shot the biggest bull elk I have ever seen, before or since. I still take this rifle out of the safe every once in awhile, just to admire the wood, checkering and engraving, and the wonderful balance it has. Someday, one of my sons, or my grandson, will own it, hopefully to also appreciate it as a fine piece of artwork.
I guess this rifle totally changed my perspective on custom, wood stocked rifles, and why one should own one (or more). I intend to do more hunting with this very special rifle- probably not in driving rain or snowy blizzards, but on hunts I intend to remember as much as that elk hunt. Who knows, maybe this fall for a big New Mexico Muley?

Kind of like custom homes, custom cars, custom jewelry, custom boats, ....

This is my 50th year of sporterizing Mausers, and I have never made a dime.
You have to want to do it.

Here is a custom on a pre 64 M70 in 300 Win mag. I got it not long ago for less than 500 sans scope.

It shot really well in a previous session but not so great the other day.

I will get it going.

I have it loaded with 155 Bergers over a moderate load of Varget.

All I want is 3006 ballistics

Never buy or commission a custom rifle for investment purposes. The same thing can be said for a lot of material things and I wouldn't let that stop me from owning a few.

As far as what's it worth, there are just too many variables such as style and workmanship to say.

Could I get a quote on a full custom Remington 742 for you

It needs see-thus and a 6-18 tasco

Passed on a custom Mauser not long ago, very nice stock and metal work, price wasnt bad, but it was a Turk Mauser action.
If it had been an FN I would have purchased it.

I am negotiating on the Sukalle. I do own one and would like to add this one. What would be really interesting is if I could find where his books ended up with dates and names of who he built rifles for.

Custom rifles are play money, toys. Nice to have, but you're buying one for YOU, nobody else, not even your kids.

I appreciate them, but would only pay a "custom" price if the thing was a laser and I'd just won the lottery or something. A parts gun with custom work on the barrel is about my style.

I thought M.D. might chime in as he has a Sukalle in 257R or at least he has written about it. My recollection is that it's a real shooter. I on the other hand only know what I've read and that's mostly from reading J.O.C's stuff.

To me it would depend on the rifle, how it looked, the level of workmanship, if it "lit my fire", etc.

Well known makers have been known to built different projects for different clients at different price points.

Is this a $2K gun? That would be my question and if I liked it that much.

DF

Wood stocked custom rifles cost a fortune to have done these days. 2k is cheap in comparison. I would love to find the perfect fitting model 70 based wood custom. Likely would be same price as factory Supergrade at collector price. Supergrade probably better investment but an older, nice, model 70 custom would be cool to have.

Some folks choose to spend their money as they see fit. After all, it is their money.

It's about priorities.

I once asked Scenarshooter why he had such an expensive Binoc/rangefinder. He replied that with such equipment he was able to make shots not otherwise possible. He went on to say he didn't drive a $50K pickup.

So, there you have it.

DF

You ain't got enough money, bub...

Lee,
Looking at his post count, he doesn't have time to shoot anything.

Weiland just wrote an article about these very things. It's in the back of the latest Rifle.



Travis

You can still have wood stocked customs built for $2-3K.

And when you consider the cost of a lot of production centerfires, that's not bad.



Travis

Travis,

Weiland must have read my mind!

Maybe you ARE Weiland.

If you are stop calling screwdrivers "turnkeys." This is America. Nobody wants to read that schit.




Travis

I have number of custom rifles that were all built by the best well-known gunsmiths in the US.

All of these rifles have Bender, Swarovski and March scopes.

A while back I wanted to sell all of them as one lot.

I tried a few places who said they pay top dollar for collections and they offered less than a 1/3 of the cost me to build them so they all went back in my safe. Lots of tire kickers with big ideas and no money

Even if I sold them for 1/2 the price I had invested in them the buyer could have made a substantial profit.

The scopes alone are well worth over the price they had offered me for the complete lot.

I am seriously contemplating the idea to leave them in my will and give them to the NRA to auction off at one of their yearly events in which they will receive the proceeds as I have no family members that I would want to leave them to.

All I can say is they are great for personal enjoyment but a terrible investment.

Nah, I'm not Wieland,
If I were, I would have spelled my last name correctly.....

You could not have done that more wrong.




Travis

Seems legit.




Clark

I am in a similar situation as 58.. I have some custom rifles, and many with custom barrels.. To get near what I have in them is impossible.. I do enjoy them or I would not have bought or built them.. I still enjoy shooting them and hope to continue until my dying day.. Mine will go to a couple of my students who love hunting and shooting.. So they will be used, long after my time..

However, my first name is in fact, Clark....

So what you are saying that only people that collect vintage collectable rifles from some of the greatest builders only buy them for personal satisfaction. I find that hard to believe. I can see one buying a custom from modern builders would not recover their expense I could believe but builders like Sedgley or Brownell?

Well,
A piece of nice wood is roughly $500-$1250. A quality stock guy is $3000 and maybe quite a bit more.
I have a few customs and they were built for me! I didn't come on the forum and ask the price first. I like them and shoot them. I don't have to sell them and money was never the reason that I chose certain people to work on them. I certainly don't have money, but have been frugal in other ways. I don't golf, buy new cars and trucks every year and so forth. If and when I die, my family can sell them at a garage sale if they choose.

Funny you should mention that Butch. I was shooting one of my customs recently at the range and had this conversation with another shooter there. He didn't think they were worth it either.

I only keep one rifle on the bench at a time and after I finished shooting the one I had out I walked back to my Jeep to get another one out. This guy really likes custom rifles but wouldn't spend the money for one but he has a $45K-$50K 4X4 1/2 ton pickup truck with about $5000-$6000 of aftermarket stuff on it parked next to my Jeep.

Now I'm not knocking the guy for his truck but will say it's all about what you like and want. Both are horrible investments. That said and God willing, I'll still be shooting my rifle 20 years from now.

Different people like different things for different reasons.

I like custom rifles but have found that I can often get more rifle for the money if I buy one built for someone else rather than commissioning one for myself. On the other hand I've got one going that cost as much as my car (I drive inexpensive used cars so that isn't saying a lot but still...) but will hunt and shoot with it until I die and then one of my boys will do the same.

As for value in names I haven't the slightest clue. I don't fault any hunting rifleman for buying/building the very best he can afford, but too often (NOT all the time!!!) those who brag of their rifles' pedigree don't know how to use them any more than an average Joe who buys a Remington 783 270 at Wally World and puts a blister pack Bushnell on top for use once a year when he plays cards and employs whores with his friends.

On the other hand, I know guys who buy those top-tier customs and shoot Em like they were made to be shot. There's an awful lot of those guys here. They know the value of a good build by an A list 'smith and it shows when they post up pics of their kills. I envy those guys not for their well built rifles but their skills passion and ability to get out and kill stuff w/ awesome weaponry. Scenarshooter comes to mind as one but there are many others.

It's all about what you value.

I remember people flipping out when my dad bought his first K-80 after they divorced.

They thought it was incredibly stupid to spend that much on a shotgun because "An 870 does the same" type of mentality or the much more common "You can't buy birds" thought. You don't buy birds - what you buy is a tool that allows you to practice enough to hit better. Go ahead and put 200,000 rounds down a Stoeger and tell me it's as tight as a K80 or Perrazi.

He reminded them that people spend 25k on a harley, ride it 4 years (putting all of 6,000 miles on it) and sell it for 50% of purchase price

He bought the K gun for a lot less, can use it year round and put a couple hundred thousand rounds through it (and did) and sell it for 85% of purchase price - if not more.

It's all in what you do - some people snowmobile and spend 30k doing that - others hunt and shoot and spend a lot less but because you can get an 870 or RAR for 300 bucks - anything more is crazy...

The best are the guys that have $2K wrapped up in a rifle worth about $600, and then tell you buying a nice shotgun is "nuts."




Travis

There you go cracking on owners of "sniper" Mosign Nagants....

I ended up not buy the Sukalle custom although my heart is still with his rifles. I did however buy a Shot Show limited run Winchester Mod 70 Super Grade in 308 NIB.

For me that is the only second new rifle I have bought in about 20 rifles.