The custom dies run over $200. After reading a lot on the 6.5 saum, creating the brass seems almost overwhelming. Do i really need a $250 set of dies to load for this rifle? Also, do i need a custom seating die or can i just use a redding 7mm saum seater with a different seating stem? My rifle is in the process of being built so now i need to understand the most efficient way to load for this rifle. I have read the 11 page thread on the "care and feeding of a gap 6.5 saum", but still have some things that aren't so clear. Thanks for any authoritative comments. This will be a sporter weight hunting rifle, not a competition target rifle.
Your 6.5 sizing die should handle the sizing. .020 difference is nothing. The 7mm seating die may not seat your bullet properly. A different seater stem fixes nothing. A $250 set of dies?? Why?
I personally would just order the Whidden dies!
I personally would just order the Whidden dies!
This. You'll be happy you spent the money.
I'm pretty sure a lot of guys were using a 7mm saum Competition seater as is, are you going to use the new Hornaday brass?
I cant find any hornady 6.5 saum brass. I recently found a deal on 4 boxes of rem 7saum corloct/bonded ammo, 140 gr. I am thinking of disassembling these and using the rem brass.
Another question. Is there a difference between a 6.5-300 SAUM and a 6.5-7mm saum?
Also, can you use the widden dies in a forster coax press
Call Whidden, they will tell you what i'm telling you below.
You need their full length non bushing die to size down necks if you are planning on turning necks. A bushing die doesn't size the whole neck and you'll turn a thin spot into the neck and end up with cracked cases after a firing or two.
You'll also need something to deal with the donuts you are going to encounter for sizing down 7 or 300 saum brass.
Your best bet is Hornady brass and then you can use whomevers bushing dies you please.
How do you get a hold of "hormady 6.5-saum brass"?
Call Whidden, they will tell you what i'm telling you below.
You need their full length non bushing die to size down necks if you are planning on turning necks. A bushing die doesn't size the whole neck and you'll turn a thin spot into the neck and end up with cracked cases after a firing or two.
You'll also need something to deal with the donuts you are going to encounter for sizing down 7 or 300 saum brass.
Your best bet is Hornady brass and then you can use whomevers bushing dies you please.
I have never had a donut problem as I fireform without a bullet. If you turn necks, do it after fire forming. The cases will not shorten either doing it this way.
Is the donut on the inside or outside. Do i need the collet and the non collet sizing die?? I do turn necks if i need to. I will be sizing down 7mm saum brass. This gun will not be a "tight neck" chamber. Do you know if the widden dies have standard threads on them so as to use forster lock rings, if i need to???
Call Whidden, they will tell you what i'm telling you below.
You need their full length non bushing die to size down necks if you are planning on turning necks. A bushing die doesn't size the whole neck and you'll turn a thin spot into the neck and end up with cracked cases after a firing or two.
You'll also need something to deal with the donuts you are going to encounter for sizing down 7 or 300 saum brass.
Your best bet is Hornady brass and then you can use whomevers bushing dies you please.
I have never had a donut problem as I fireform without a bullet. If you turn necks, do it after fire forming. The cases will not shorten either doing it this way.
I had donut issues more than one time, even after turning them off or reaming them out, they still came back.
Would fire forming without a bullet eliminate the donut issue all together?
Cream of wheat method?
Is the donut on the inside or outside. Do i need the collet and the non collet sizing die?? I do turn necks if i need to. I will be sizing down 7mm saum brass. This gun will not be a "tight neck" chamber. Do you know if the widden dies have standard threads on them so as to use forster lock rings, if i need to???
The donut is on the inside of the case neck, unless you use an expander mandrel to push it to the outside and turn it off.
What is your neck diameter on your chamber? .298 is what i ran. It is supposedly a No Turn size for this round, but i still turned my necks a bit anyway to be safe.
If you are going to turn necks, you need a Whidden Full Length Non Bushing Sizing Die. The non bushing die will size the whole neck, the bushing die will not size the whole neck.
You can load perfectly good ammo with the non bushing die, but sometimes a bushing die is preferred to control neck tension, bullet run out, ect.
Is the donut more likely to occur in 7mm SAUM or 300 SAUM brass? Do you guys have a preference for which brass to convert from??
Mine was with 7MM but i would bet it will happen with both.
Not doubting that the donut effect happens, but it never happened with 284 brass going to 6-284.
Not doubting that the donut effect happens, but it never happened with 284 brass going to 6-284.
Was it because the bullet was seated far enough out to not touch the donut?
That is one of the reasons I don't have donut issues with 6.5-284 brass necking up to a straight .284......my bullet doesn't get seated deep enough to touch it, so there is no issue.
The whole donut ordeal can be avoided with the proper freebore on the reamer, but I am not in the know on what freebore works best on the 6.5 SAUM to avoid the donut. I built one pretty much as soon as it came out.
Pat (Scenar Shooter) has had the donut issues with the 6.5 Saum as well.
Three options: Either deal with the donuts (inside neck ream, or turn them off the outside) (unless Butch's method eliminates them), have the correct free bore to keep the bullet you want to shoot out of the donut area, or just buy 6.5 SAUM brass from Hornady.
I'm not familiar with the problem of these SAUMs, but don't donuts usually occur necking up when thicker shoulder material gets changed to neck wall?
I'm not familiar with the problem of these SAUMs, but don't donuts usually occur necking up when thicker shoulder material gets changed to neck wall?
I've seen it more in necking them down and in several different calibers.
I use Bullseye only with a wax plug. No use spending a lot of time here, just try it.
Interesting Butch. In any of those situations were the necks being lengthened by sharpening the shoulder angle and pushing it back?
A 7 Saum s die with the right bushing would likely size the whole neck, as the neck/shoulder junction should be higher on the case body-have never seen a donut where this junction was raised, as it's further from the thicker shoulder brass. Either way, a donut cutting pilot on an K&M, or similar adds no time to the neck turning process. For a seater, I'd always suggest sending your gunsmith a Wilson seater and having him cut it with the same chambering reamer. Cheap, and ultimately the most accurate. You'd be into it about 130-150 bucks, depending on the bushing and gunsmith
There's also a GAP 6.5 4S group on Facebook if you're on FB. Several small batches of Hornady brass posted on there.
Sendero Man also had/has some for sale (I think).
Good luck!
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ornady_6.5_SAUM_Brass_-_New_&#UNREADBuy this and quit worrying about brass prep. Trust me, it'll be worth it. Brass prep is why I got rid of my 6.5 SAUM.
I settled on the widden bushing die set. Man, these are making straight ammo. All of my 130 berger hybrid loads are measuring less than .002 bullet runnout! Most are .001 or less. Didnt want to spend the coin on the widden's but now i am glad i did. Thanks for the suggestions guys.
Oh, and by the way, the rings fit fine in my forster coax press, which was a concern i had. Just fyi
What bushing and brass are you using?
Hornady 6.5 gap saum brass. These make really straight ammo. I ordered 4 bushings, .289, .290, .291 .304 (for sizing down 7mm brass in stages). I resized some 7mm saum and it made the necks .005-.009 runnout. Hopefully the 7mm brass will fireform straight..turned the necks to .015".
I am using the .291 bushing for loading.
How are you liking the cartridge?
It' a bit of a pain to deal with the limitations in brass, but i am liking it so far. My barrel is still new and i hope it increases in velocity with time. So far my 24" barrel is topping out at 3150-3200 with the 130 bergers. I am hoping to get 3100 in the 140's, but i think that may be pushing the pressures a little too much in the 24" barrel.
Only fired about 20 rounds so far, just to see where my loads top out in the 130 berger hybrids..
It' a bit of a pain to deal with the limitations in brass, but i am liking it so far. My barrel is still new and i hope it increases in velocity with time. So far my 24" barrel is topping out at 3150-3200 with the 130 bergers. I am hoping to get 3100 in the 140's, but i think that may be pushing the pressures a little too much in the 24" barrel.
Are you finding limitations with the Model Seven action and the seating depth of the Bergers? I had thought about building a 7 SAUM on a long action for the 180 Bergers. I'm shooting 160 grain Accubonds in my stock Model Seven, so seating depth isn't an issue.
If i seat them long, it definately is a limitation to one shot at a time. I have seated the 130 hybrid's to magazine length as they are not supposed to be so sensative to seating depth. Havent shot for accuracy yet though.
The only limitation for the model seven that i have noticed is the short rear receiver top surface and two close holes for scope mounts. Still haven't decided whether to go with a picatinny rail or DNZ mounts.
Right now i am just using a standard leupold base with the dovetail in front and the windage pinch screws in the back. But i noticed the base didn't touch the rear bridge very much without the screw bending it down a bit. I am thinking this may put stress on the action and affect accuracy???
It could put the scope rings out of line, which will then stress the scope and affect accuracy. If the top of the receiver is out of spec you'll need to take steps to account for that.
Thanks for the advice. I am gonna order a DNZ and a picatinny rail and see which i like better. If shooting only to 600 yards, do i need a 20 moa rail?