Guys, what's a finished Brown Pounder weigh? (w/ paint, 1" pad).

IIRC the Standard Fiberglass Brown's weigh in around 24-25 oz's finished?

Thinking of one for my M70 300 WSM... Really don't like McMillan's M70 Stocks (other than the Legend), so it's either Brown or Bansner.

Thx.

I have several Browns. Figure 17oz.

Wow. Didn't realize they finished up that light.

Guess "Pounder" isn't just a marketing gimmick.

I had a Kevlar Brown Pounder at one point in time. Great stock.

Is that the Kevlar version or the standard fiberglass?

I'm with Brad - I didn't think it was literal 'pounder'......

Calvin, was yours the standard or Pounder?

Bill, that would have to be the Pounder.

Now that I started this thread, I'm not even sure they inlet for the SA M70!

Pounder

Sheesh. If it's 17 oz., shouldn't it be the Pounderso? Talk about false advertising...

I have used a number of their stocks and all were somewhat over a pound. Figure on adding more with bedding and especially the pad. You might look into the Remington supercell pad available on Amazon to save a bit of weight compared to the Decelerator.

My latest Pound'r from last year, for a Pre-64, was 15.8 oz out of the mold.

I forget what the exact weight finished was, and won't be able to weigh it for a few days, but I recall around 22 oz. As you well know the guy finishing it makes a big difference as they are very rough as you receive them.

The bedded, painted Brown on my 375 M70 goes 21 oz with a LimbSaver pad. No idea if it is a Pounder but I suspect so.

Brad no it's not. I can't find anything lighter.

Other thing no one mentions is they are stiffer than a Mcmillan,.

I'd have to take my present rifle apart to tell you but I know it;s lighter than my Compact Edge. I think butchlambert is right on the weights.


Here ya go. Brown did the paint, pad, and swivels on this one.

OK, so wading through all the info it seems possible to end up with an approximately 22 +/- finished stock (bedding, paint, 1" Decelrator) going the pounder route.

That sound about right?

Browns website sucks btw...

That's where my LA 700 with 1" Decelerator, Score High pillar kit and bedding is at.

Cool. 22oz's.

Thanks.

My wife had a Pounder on a .250 Savage built on a short 700 action for a while. As I recall the finished stock weighed 19 ounces, but that was with a 1/2" pad. (Don't need much on a .250).

Brad sounds right to me. Both of mine had thin pads....maybe 1/2 inch(?)

You can also take the plate out of a Decelerator which saves some weight.

Brad,

MPI sells Decelerator pads without the metal stiffener for $30 plus ship.

Should save you an (unnecessary) ounce or so.

Do not need it if You are gluing it to the stock as opposed to screwing it on.

Jerry

The Pounder is supposed to be 16 ounces out of the mold.

Melvin Forbes says his is 8 ounces out of the mold.

I have not actually weighed either.

Doesn't matter . I can't buy Mel's stock for a M70.

I have a 1986 M700 Mountain Rifle KS that was equipped with a Brown Kevlar stock from the factory. Finished weight with the sling studs and Remington pad is 18.05 ounces.

Has anybody had one of these stocks camo dipped?

Yea,the pounder is likely the lightest for your gun,just mentioned the NULA as an example that stocks could be lighter if someone would build them.

Not yet, but I will shortly.

I have a Brown Precision that finishes at 25 ounces, but is in standard fiberglass with no kevlar. Includes a Decelerator with the metal in it.

I think that straight fiberglass absorbs recoil even better than the kevlar, as it is not as stiff.

As you may know, Brown will do some fun things for you, such as making only the forend with kevlar or graphite while leaving the butt as plain fiberglass. That is the way to go IMO. And get a Decelerator without the metal. Brown used to do that as an option also.

i have had several of the remington ks stocks from brown and never had one lighter than 26 ozs

Then they are not PoundR's. I have owned some KS, handled even more and none of them were Brown PoundR's.


On the recoil issue....I found the PoundR snappy and for me even a 7RM is on the edge. Like a Kimber Montana in 7mm WSM, which I also don't care for.

The PoundR is at its best in 270/280 or below. I know others don't feel the same.

I have a spankin' new LH Brown Precision pound'r finished for rem 700, sporter contour and bdl inlet...22 oz. with Brown-branded 3/4"-ish pad and studs.
Snagged it for $289 on GB as a completely factory-finished stock. It was a Gander Mountain listing there, dunno how the hell they got it.
Stiff mofo and a helluva fine stock for the dough. I've wanted one for years and considered that score the next best thing to the lottery....

Heck of a score there. Can't imagine that you could go wrong at that price. I always wanted to try one but the factory finished price has held me back.

That's my experience as well.

I have no idea of the Kevlar content in this one, but it is stiff. Hasn't been fired, still need barrel head-spaced and indexed to new action. One of the resolutions for '17, 'finish rifles'...
Of the three Brown stocks I have had, this is the first with a "Brown Precision" pad logo on it...

Nice rig, and great buy! I suspect being a lefty worked out on that purchase to your benefit!

Just to add another data point - I have a pounder for a LR Mauser and with paint and a 0.5 inch pachmayr pad/plate it is 1 lb 7 oz. (23 oz)


Brad - did you confirm whether or not Brown makes a stock for the SA Model 70?

I currently have one in a McM compact and thinking about making a change to something along the lines of a Bansner or Brown (if they make them) as well.

best,

Bob

I'll calibrate my scales and weigh the stock again, but 18.05 ounces is what I have written down on the stock. Hhhhmmmm.......

Bart, just got and email from Mark Brown this afternoon:



Happy New Year to you too, Brad!

Yes, we certainly do make a stock for the Model 70 short action. It will be our straight "Classic" style hunting stock, without a cheekpiece, and set up for the standard sporter style barrel contour.

It is available like all the rest of our stocks....Stock Blank, Premium Pre-Finished, and complete custom install.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, or if we can be of service in any way, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Good Shootin

Mark Brown
President

The Brown on my 375 is the best of the synthetics (McM, Bansner) I own with regard to ergonomics. It weighs 7# 11 oz empty and unslung.

Sweet.....

I have a couple Brown stocks, one is on a Winchester pre-64 M70 in .280AI. I like it very much. The only down side is they are not inexpensive. However, Mark is very easy to work with and honest. I do not hesitate to recommend him or his work. I need a new 270W and as soon as I can find a decent action, I will turn the project over to Mark. Oh, yes the pounder weights with a good recoil pad about 21oz or so.

I've had 3. One was Ed's (above), another on a Pre'64 and have a blind mag one for a Fwt in hand now. Current ADL setup comes in at 22oz padded and studded. Great feeling M70 Stock!

Brad, I was able to get my BP kevlar on a scale today. With a 1 inch decelerator with the plate taken out, and finished, 21.6 ounces. Big surprise.

It's my favorite stock.

Forgot to mention. It's a blind magazine Jobbie, so it will weigh a wee bit more than your typical floorplate model stock.

Good stuff guys... thanks for all the input.

Brad- thanks good to know that this an option for the SA.....decisions...

EdM- nice looking garage there, that Mach 1 looks sharp from what I can see.

I heard back from Mark and thought I'd pass along the info I rec'd.

Material - the premium pre-fish stock ($745) is fiberglass and will weigh 24-26 oz with 13.5 LOP and 1" decelerator. The Pounders are made with Kevlar and will weigh 4-5 oz less.

Dimensions - the stock is straight with 1/2" drop at the comb and 3/8" drop at heel, no cast off/on.

Required work - he emphasized all stocks need some work but is minimal. He basically said they need bedded. I interpret that as drop in but he wanted to clarify a bit I guess.

They are running 10-12 weeks out.

Good thread and pics.

Are the pounder stocks the same profile as the fiberglass stocks?

ir: I believe they are although some Browns have cheekpiece and some do not.

Any gold flakes mixed in with all that kevlar.. seems awful pricey at almost $800 for a sporter by the time you pay shipping, I guess if a guy wants something light for a certain rifle then your going to pay!

Yes you are.....


Not gold but the entire stock is Kevlar which I understand is a PITA to work compared to FG .

But....my last PoundR hunted all over the continent for 20-25 years without a hitch,and stood up to enough shooting to waste three barrels.

Cost is incidental.....

Thanks Bob,
I am still in the planning phase on my pre-64, fwt 30-06.

I like the profile of the pounder stock, but suspect it may be to light and stiff for a 30-06?

I have a 7lb. 30-06 and a 6.25lb 270 and that's all the recoil I want to deal with.

According to the Brown Precision the kevlar only saves 4 to 5 ounces.

My goal is 7.5 to 7.75 lbs with a Leupold scope and Talley mounts.
Do you think the fiberglass Brown stock will get me there?

$800 will not buy a Brown Kevlar stock, bedded, 1" recoil pad, and painted.

IIRc, the factory barreled pre 64 fwt action in 30-06 is 4lb 11 ounces so adding 26 ounces for a stock, 13-14 for talley LW and a variable gets you to 7lb 3ounces.

Browns are not cheap. Good things usually aren't. I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a stock for this particular project given the finished weight.

The Bansner will finish very close to the standard Brown, and will be ideal on a 300 WSM where a couple ounces aren't worth an additional $300+. Fortunately I've got the ability to take a blank, install a pad, grind it, finish the blank, bed and paint it.

Were I trying to build the lightest M70 Fwt, I might go the Brown route. Otherwise, "there's not enough there there" for me with this 300 WSM project.

never understood how melvin forbes installs his stock on the colt rifles for 600-700 and brown wants 700-800 just for the blank

Melvin Forbes is in WV, Mark Brown is in CA.

Enough said.

PS, I think Melvin's stock is likely the very best synthetic stock made, both from an ergonomics perspective and a build quality perspective.

True. If you have Mark do it you are looking at more like $1300 I think.


IR: Recoil with the 30/06 FW and PoundR I think you will be OK. It ain't a BR rifle....

That's good to know..

Pay once, cry once and enjoy it for the rest of your life... . Then pass it down...

Not Bob, but my pounder is on a pre 64 model 70 338wm and it works great. Absolutely no complaints here..

bsa: That's how I figure it. Some rifles I could care less about but I did not build this one to flip..

It will last 20+ years like my last PoundR.

Yes, it will be 7.25 lbs, plus or minus an ounce or two with a 2.5-8 Leopold scope and Talley mounts, because that is exactly what I put together.

FYI, bedding, fill, and finish for the stock can easily add 4-5 oz. Mine is finished with sandable primer and Rustoleum textured paint.

Weight can vary in Brown Prec. stock production runs (in the same model stock).
When I purchased mine , Mr Brown offered me an unfinished glass stock from his inventory
that was closer to 1.25 lb rather than the regular 1.5lb

Brown price list states that Pounder blanks can range from 15-17 oz.

Mr. Brown personally talked me out of Kevlar, because of the higher difficulty involved in finishing a Kevlar stock
for the DIY gunsmith. He said I might be more than happy with glass at 1.25lb and an easier finishing job,though
I did opt for the carbon addition option in the forend, for stiffness.

I never tire of that picture. Great rifle there Bob..

Agreed as you know Bobby, they are hard to beat!

Brad;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the new year has been treating you and yours well thus far and you're keeping warm enough in this latest cold snap.

I am cognizant you're inquiring about a Brown stock and merely mention this option because - well it's an option other than McMillan, Brown or Bansner.

Stuart up at Wildcat Composites out of Sherwood Park, AB - near Edmonton - will make a stock blank for considerably less than the dollar figures being tossed about.

Added to that you folks south of the medicine line will get a near 30% discount because of exchange rates being what they are.

Please note this is a blank here being weighed - no recoil pad, finish or bedding - but sling swivels are installed.



He runs a carbon fiber I-beam up the center of the stock and does poured in pillars so they are very, very stiff for as light as they are.

Anyway another thought on the subject and nothing more Brad. Good luck with your rifle whichever way you decide and all the best to you all in 2017.

Dwayne

Yes .......Mark Brown (or was it Chet?) tried to talk me out of a PoundR but I didn't listen then and wouldn't listen now. The PoundR is distinctly different from anything else he makes. I spec'd the rifle above for a buddy and Brow said the same thing to him.....I said ignore what he said and get the PoundR........ I knew I was going to buy the rifle and finish it up.

He is not so much talking you out of it as explaining in advance that the weight difference is only 4-5 ounces,so probably don't want to listen to whining customers who paid so much extra for only 5 ounces of weight savings. People complain about everything. You gotta read between the lines.

It would be inaccurate to assume he doesn't like a product he sells. It is superior in every way to his FB models

The stock is also much stiffer than any fiberglass stock he sells....owned them all in everything from 257 Roberts,5-6 270's, 7 mags,300 mags 338, 375.....you name it.The stocks can vary in weight but it isn't anything to get excited over.

You can also add graphite and kevlar to certain areas of a Brown FG stock to stiffen and strengthen it.

Rick they are a slam dunk and I don't understand anyone building a 270/280/7x57 with synthetic stock can pick anything else,,,,,I can't,despite the additional cost which might have some sticker shock but goes away over time.

Absolutely, yet I never got the impression he didn't like his own Kevlar product,he was being honest by relaying
to me the realities involved in finishing a Kevlar stock...trying to avoid creating customers who ring up expressing
their frustration about working with the Kevlar they ordered....when life could be made so much easier for both of
them by selecting a glass stock 4-5oz heavier.
As you say some customers will whinge about anything and everything and Kevlar could easily spark that kind of thing.
Brown doesn't really know what kind of customer he has on the end of the line when they are ordering...Prevention if
one can achieve it, is much easier than cure.

Yeah that could be it. I never thought about it much and just grabbed the PoundR

But I had a lot of his other stocks as well.

BC pretty cool stock .

You are correct.
My Kevlar and Pierce Ti receiver.

Nice rifle Butch.

Absolutely Bob. As we have discussed before if you're building a rifle because you are bored and you expect to flip it next year? Not worth the hassle or the expense. But if you're building a rifle (like the 280 in my pic?) to have a rifle and to use it? For a lightweight model 70 there is nothing else that is close.

Dwayne showed the Wildcats stock from Alberta. We tend to forget about those. Phenomenal quality. My only critique with the Wildcats is they are all, to the best of my knowledge, copies of factory stocks. I think the only stock he builds for a lightweight model 70 is the model 70 featherweight with schnabel foreend tip. So his stock shapes don't keep up with some of the others. But they are very light and stiff.

Rick if you belong to the "Build A Month Club", and chase the next hot cartridge as soon as it hits the Internet, the Pound'R may not be for you.......

BTW: I purchased my glass blank in early 89', so nearly 28 yrs ago and chose to have Brown fill and prime the blank.
Brown did not offer filled & primed option on Kevlar - and to this day they still do not offer than option on Kevlar.
F&P option not being available on difficult to work with Kevlar, is basically what turned me away from a 'Pounder'.
It was my first DIY full epoxy bed and finish painted stock attempt, so I didnt want too much hassle first time around.

I have 4 Brown pounders (Ruger 77 tang-long- 6.5 Rm, R700-3006, 2 R700's -7MSM) and have filled and finished them all myself. My finish isn't perfect but I also don't do auto paint and body for a living. I have worked fiberglass boats and done Bondo repairs before so I didn't find them so hard. The big thing is to not be in a hurry. I really like mine and would use them again in a heart beat.

I must've been smoked-up the first time I weighed it. I recalibrated my scales and the weight of the above stock is 27oz.

Dollar for dollar it is hard to beat one of Bansner's and they fit me very well. They make a fun project to complete. This one I did a number of years ago on a M77 RS 35 Whelen. It goes 7# 7 oz empty as shown.

Another Bansner fan here. I have finished a few and they are not too hard, even for me! They do handle recoil very well, easy on the shoulder.

Butch,
Gorgeous!
Care to share any more details of this one?

Stud - thanks for the update and happy to hear as this probably saved me a bunch of money. All of my ks stocks, both Brown and Mcm, weight between 26 and 28 oz. They are my favorite stock for a LA with anything above a MR contour. And I probably would have bought the next 10 on gunbroker searching for the mythical 18 oz ks pounder that brown made a limited number of for remington on the 32nd day of the 13th month during the full moon... :-)

Did somebody post above that Brown did not bed or finish their Kevlar stocks. Mark and I worked on my "Kevlar" stock. I sent my barreled action to them. They built the stock to my LOP and requested style. It has poured pillars and fits my barrel contour. They painted it also. I chambered a Douglas barrel that finished at 25". It is a 280AI. At the present it has the Talley lightweight ring-base combo. Haven't decided on a scope yet. Hasn't been fired yet either.
A windy 23deg day doesn't make me want to go to the range.

I've had a bevy of Brown, Bansner and McMillan stocks over the years.
And one rifle has worn all three. Personal ergos and fit obviously play the largest part - but for me, the Bansner wins/won in least perceived recoil.

Agree with Butch. My PoundR pictured above was finished and painted by Brown.




Bansner? Anyone?

Do I know that rifle?

No......

I had one like it in the late 90's that I hunted with a lot but cooked the barrel.It had a Banner stock....I screwed it up with the wrong barrel contour so I sold it.

This was intended to be a replacement but got the Mashburn about the same time and determined it was not needed so it got sold.

It sure did shoot!

Bob, what's up with the grey finish on the stainless?

Bluing process?

Here is a Bansner 7RM and Brown Prec 375H&H for some more reference points (since we're showing off now )

I like it when you show off. I've had both, but, honestly like the Brown poundR better than the bansner.. I already posted my PoundR, but here's the Bansner I had on a classic sporter.



It just didn't feel right in the field, balance was wrong and I partially blame the stock. Barrel contour and scope choice may have been a big influence too. Live and learn situation. One positive I can say about the bansner is it handled recoil very well. Ergo's help to mitigate recoil with the best of them. The grip is fatter and shorter on the Bansner vs. the Brown precision too. I prefer the longer trimmer grip of the Brown. The Banser required quite a bit of dremel work to get the barreled action centered up, but after glass bedding it was great.

Brad it is not SS...it's all CM with some miracle finish on it. I forget what type.


Barrel is a Brux #2 9 twist. I can tell you the finish is very slick. The rifle functioned flawlessly. Of course it had a few trick moves....but what doesn't these days?

Maybe shoulda kept it LOL!

You guys suck......

1-9 270?

No 1-9 twist 7 Rem Mag.....

No wonder you got rid of it

That wasn't why...I love the 7 rem Mag.

But I had the Mashburn so who needS a bunch of 7 Rem Mags hanging around

I just get bored putting these things together and lose interest after awhile. They all end up being the same.....

This one shot those terrible Partitions.

In the picture, it looks like it was muzzle-heavy. Is that what you didn't like?

You're incorrigible.

I wish you'd build another on a 700. Will send you the specs.

Sorry to be off topic - But super nice Mach 1 EdM!! Don't see many like that in my part of the world.

Back to the topic at hand - for those that have the PoundR, how long is the forend and how well do you feel it suits the Winchester Featherweight contour?

I just got my metal work back (SS Model 70 SA with 22 in FWT bbl in 7mm-08) and was going to stick it back in a McM Compact that I have but am now seriously thinking of going with the PoundR...or possibly the Bansner/LAW.

thx

Bob

I think the forend is perfect but don't ask me for numbers cause i won't measure it....far better than that abbreviated fore end on the Compact which sucks but is serviceable


If I thought the PoundR fore end did not work well I would not have hunted it for 30+ years.....


Here they are side by side. Pair of FW 270's. I'll take the Brown.

I think the Compact looks best with a 20" barrel, while the Pounder looks awesome with a 22" barrel.

I would take the Brown ergos anyday over the Compact for actual field shooting. It fits me great. but that could vary between different people.

One of many amazing threads cutting RCH's.

Not to be too dense - but what is RCHs?

Bob - I'll take that pair any day of the week......

I think Ed is referring to dissecting hairs from various parts of female anatomy......but I could be wrong.




Bill I been hunting with something like that pair since I got my first Brown Precision in 1979 or 1980 or so.

Thanks BobinNH, I appreciate your thoughts and the picture.

Now to decide....

This one isn't going anywhere soon, so cost is not a huge issue.

Below is a hint of the future...

That'll do!

The FW in the Brown, what technique was used for the bedding ahead of the receiver:

-Completely free to tip?
-Short barrel pad ahead receiver?
-Either above, w/ pressure pad at tip?
-Full length bed to tip?

Been looking at a M70 FW for a project for about 12 years now, collecting dust. It has a 22" Winchester FW contour. Been thinking about the Brown and a good bedding technique to settle down that contour.

Thanks!

Gary : Good question....That rifle came bedded from Brown. Looked like a nice job but it did not shoot,which was perplexing.

I took it to my smith, Larry, a match shooter who knows M70's.

He said some M70's would shoot with no barrel pad forward of receiver and some would not. Mine was completely floated so Larry suggested a barrel pad forward of receiver, and some reinforced bedding to the left of the tang,since the bolt stop/ejector cut outs made the M70 a bit less rigid in that area.

Whatever he did, it worked as groups improved substantially after he rebedded the rifle.

Thanks, I expect it to be tricky. When Gale McMillan was alive, he wrote me a letter reference barrel harmonics of a factory barrel, and how the use of a pad, or pressure pad, could tame the harmonics of that factory barrel, vs free floating, like common with a match barrel. In addition, the taper of that FW contour, may cause some issue, if it sits on a pad ahead of the receiver. An option I considered was to put a pressure pad at the tip, with maybe a few pounds upward push.

Not trying to be lazy, but the thought of juggling all those options to find the sweet spot, plus load work, keeps the project on hold.

Gary don't be paralyzed by analysis.

If between friends and I we have not dropped 25-30 FW M70's into synthetic stocks we haven't done a single one. I don't have a memory of any that were problematic.

Send the rifle and stock to Alex Sitman at Master Gunstocks or Redneck (who did the other rifle in the picture). I doubt you'll be unhappy.

Doesn't MPI make one that comes out at like 9 ounces or something??? Ultra lightweight????

Unlikely.

If advertised as such, I would have to weigh one on one of my scales before believing it.

Call it personal experience in attempting to get a 20oz finished stock on a 98 mauser...

And it not just MPI...

Yes but that's the unfishined weight. My gunsmith finished one for his 375 RUM that went 14 oz I believe. He is hoping that since mine is a short action with a short foreend that it'll be closer to 12 oz finished but we shall see.

Please report back on the weight. I'm doing a faux Ti and might be persuaded to go another direction with the stock depending on what your's tips the scale at.

My best friend's 416 Wby tore apart an MPI in 12 shots. Hope yours is ok.

Luckily mine is much less power than a freaking 416

If worried about it a standard 16 oz one would be much stouter than a 9 oz versions.

416wby????? I was thinking 204 ruger walkaroud rifle at 3 lbs!!!

Your smith sounds like he knows what he's doing. He was exactly right. Something we all need to remember is every rifle is different. Even when you have 2 that look exactly the same...

I totally agree. I like them the other way around. The hunters compact is damn near perfect for my needs on a fwt model 70. I like everything about it: Perfect balance, perfect weight, excellent in field positions. No complaints here. I also like the brown poundR on my 338wm, but it also has a 24" tube and it feels great. Mitigates recoil very nicely on that 338 as well.. You are absolutely right though. "Different strokes for different folks", comes to mind...

Was the MPI sold and installed by MPI?

Yup, and bedded.

Was a funny thing to watch. My friend played nose guard for Missouri, that is to say a pretty stout fella. He got a yen to build a lightweight 416, only God knows why. Anyway, he sat down at the bench with this brakeless, sub 8lb wonder, and proceeded to shoot 4, 3 shot groups with full house 400 grainers, in a t-shirt no less. The groups were all ragged holes. He got up, and peeled back his shirt sleeve to show what looked like a massive hematoma. Then he noticed the stock was completely cracked at the tang. He sent it back to MPI, they "fixed" it, and he sold the 12-shot Wonder Weatherby.

Most recoil-proof guy I've ever known and a fine rifleman. But just a little nuts

Haha dang that sucks!!

Good thing I am putting my stock on something that recoils 1/4 as much.

Does that mean I get 4 times as many rounds down the pipe before mine breaks

Ha!

I'll be you'll be fine. The incident I referenced was almost 20 years ago. New ownership at MPI, etc.

I know a gunsmith who put together a relatively lightweight 460 Weatherby for an insistent client. IIRC it was fired once after delivery with interesting results.

I think a 20lb rifle would be about right for a 460......