Hello all,

I have a New Haven classic stainless in .243 that I intend to use as a donor action to have a 6.5CM built. This will be the first gun I will not have in factory configuration besides a chassis gun and AR builds.

Barrel:
I know I want a 20inch Proof sendero lite barrel. I want it this short because I'm hiking through heavy brush and want it to be more handy through that stuff, and I reload so I think I can make up for some of the lost velocity. I like the carbon wrap because of better heat dissipation if I want to shoot it at the range, and that they are stiffer than steel. Plus it looks super cool, and I don't mind that added expense.

Stock:
I like the Mcmillan winchester varmit stock in edge fill. I like the stock because it has a shorter forend and I think that would look and balance better with the shorter tube, plus it has a more vertical grip and a palm swell. Similar to the Manners EH4, which I also like, but I don't think they inlet for winchester 70s anymore.

I want to keep this rifle weight minded. I know it won't be ultra-lightweight, but I am aiming for 6.5 lbs (lighter if possible) bare rifle. I'm plan to put my vx-5hd 2-10 on there with Talley lightweight rings to top it off.


My questions:

Have any of you converted a standard model 70 to a blind magazine? If so, how do you do that? What parts would I need? I am considering this for weight savings (minimal, but it counts) and it'll be a little bit more sealed up for the super crappy weather I hunt in.

If a blind magazine is not possible, or if you believe it is a terrible idea, do you have suggestions for lightweight bottom metal? The original gun has the 2-piece bottom metal, but I will be changing over to 1-piece if I go the bottom metal route.

Has anyone used a timney model 70 trigger? Is it worth the money over an adjusted new-haven trigger?


Do any of you have recommendations for a gunsmith who can put this rifle together for me and do a great job?


Do you know something else I don't know? Are there considerations that I am missing? A way you could save some more weight that I haven't thought of? I would like thoughts and opinions from you all.


Thank you in advance.

The M70 trigger is very good when properly tuned and the open design is preferable over the Timney. I’m cringing at the thought of a stainless classic fitted with a carbon fiber barrel but that’s just me. Aluminum bottom metal is available and would weight about the same as the blind mag setup. Good luck with your build. I hope you enjoy it.

Take a good look at a Rem 700 ADL and you'll see what will/would needs to be done to do what you want.

I think your build sounds pretty well thought out to what you wanna accomplish. I’d look at the smiths here on the fire such as Shaen and Redneck. They’ve both built some great rifles I’ve seen here and stand behind their builds.

PTG makes 1 piece aluminum bottom metal. Comes out to around the same weight as a blind mag.

I really like the simplicity of the Winchester trigger and a good Smith can tune one down to 2lbs and break like glass.

Sounds like quite the project. Keep us posted on how it shoots. I'd do it differently, but that's just me.. Every build is a learning experience I guess... Good luck with it...

Go Fieldcraft in Kreedmire and never look back. Hint.

I'd not let Redneck rebarrel a glass of water,with a fresh straw. Hint.

LW's puke too easily. Hint.

That Reupold,would be amongst my last choices and I'd have to lose a VERY substantial bet,to suffer same. Hint.

Pressure,is pressure. Hint.

Proof would be amongst the last pieces of fhuqking schit I'd suffer. Hint.

"Heat dissipation" and "stiffer" are fhuqking Wives Tales. Hint.

Stock ergo's are subjective. The Sako/Remington/Winny Varmint stock is a nice pattern,but a schit choice there. Hint.

Shaen savvies rifles and knows WTF. Hint.

In fairness however...I've never been to Alaska,or seen a Winchester. Hint.

LAUGHING!......................

I swapped my 243 SS Classic Fwt into a Fwt pattern McMillan, w/blind bottom. Put an AL trigger-guard on, used to be available through Brownells, no clue if they still are.

If going 6.5Creed on that platform I'd have the gunsmith who does the bbl work cut the spacer out of the mag-box and shorten the bolt-stop and ejector to accommodate the longer stroke.

Leave the factory trigger in the rifle, let your bbl dude work over the factory trigger.

Glad to know Big Stick approves of my plans!

Horse1, did you use the same internal magazine for the new blind bottom stock? I'm still wrapping my head around how to do that swap, but maybe I'm overthinking it.

BSA1917, what would you do differently?

Thanks all for your comments so far.

First, I'd use a different scope, second, I'd look at the hunters compact edge stock, but that may just be me. Sounds like you are wanting a semi tactical build and trying to keep it light. I believe the hunters compact would be lighter in edge fill than the stock you mention. That, or you could use a Brown precision PoundR. Guaranteed to be light, but the grip may not be what you want. I prefer the open grip of the poundR, personally. I'm kind of oldschool though, so carry on. Sounds like you will have a nice build either way. I like the sound of the carbon wrapped barrel. Should be nice and light and very rigid and accurate and dissipate heat very well... As for triggers, I'd leave the original in there. If you don't have a smith that can fine tune the fu out of it and make it freeking outstanding, I'd find a different smith... They are very easy to fine tune. One of my favorite hunting triggers. I tune all of mine to 2.5 pounds for hunting. 2 pounds for competition...

I wonder if the OEM issued 3"+ COAL latitude Fieldcraft magbox,will Smooch 147's,as issued? Hint.

I wonder if Fieldcrafts are available,as a blind magbox? Hint.

I wonder if a Fieldcrafts (5) 8x40 base fasteners are handy? Hint.

I wonder if a Fieldcrafts trigger is adjustable? Hint.

I wonder if a Fieldcraft will make weight? Hint.

I wonder if a Fieldcraft wearing a 1913 rail and max ring spacing,is "tough"? Hint.

I wonder if anyone that has ever been to Alaska,has ever seen a Fieldcraft? Hint.

I wonder if the MK 5 in '10x is SFP or FFP? Hint.

I wonder what reticle,the Reupold MK 5 '10x has? Hint.

I wonder if LW's break easily? Hint.


Not that I don't enjoy a badly botched blueprint,Fhuqk Show. Hint.

LAUGHING!.....................

I've built a Classic Stainless M70 with a blind magazine. You will need a new magazine box, etc. and you may loose a round in capacity. When I changed stocks on the rifle, I went back to the hinged floorplate design. We had a lot "fun," my gunsmith and I getting the blind magazine to work right.
I don't understand the carbon wrap barrel. They don't dispel heat as well as metal. They can also make the rifle pretty muzzle light in a short barrel. That's the last thing I want to see in any big game rifle.
I much prefer the standard M70 trigger. Both my M70's have them. In fact, my custom 98 Mauser has a close copy.
I don't understand the fancy Leupold scope. A 6.5 lb. bare rifle is pretty light for long range shooting. If it were mine, I'd put more weight into the barrel, and put a lighter Leupold scope on it. E

Going to an internal blind box you’ll go from 5 to 4. I believe I used the of mine came with and just shaved it down a bit so as not to have it contacting/flexing things.

The mag box is held in place via soft crush-fit into the well on the bottom the action. You're only concern going to blind magazine (box depth) is easily remedied with a file, Dremel, grinder, or belt sander.

I sold my one and only VX-6 2-12 because I didn't like the reticle (wide duplex) and IMO, it had too much parallax (yes, I focused it, but, focus and parallax are 2 different things). I wouldn't use the VX-5 2-10 for the same reasons, but that's just me, you're paying the bill here.

You're building a svelte rifle with a bbl profile that guarantees you won't be able to use a svelte stock profile. It's your $$, your build, your idea, but, the bbl profile seems to limit your stock choices to only those which run counter to your overall goal.

I love, love, love the M70 Fwt, but, if starting from scratch there's virtually nothing that will give you more top-quality features for less $$ than the Barrett Fieldcraft.

@OP, If you are going to have a gunsmith / rifle builder do the work for you, I would recommend someone like Redneck here on 24HCF who "knows their way around" a Win M70. Specifically regarding trigger, I had a local gunsmith swap the factory M70 trigger for a Timney on a Left Hand M70 Classic. Later developed a problem with the 3 position safety. Root cause for the issue with the safety traced back to the Timney trigger not being properly fitted. Had Redneck convert back to the M70 factory trigger group. Properly tuned, the factory trigger was a good as the Timney. Data point of one. However, I am a believer.

I think I would go with a fluted barrel before the carbon fiber. I can picture having to add weight to the fore end to get the balance right with the carbon barrel. On a glass or composite stock it is pretty easy to shorten the fore end just cut off the end cap and glass it back on to the stock. May take some fillet to fair it up but usually not much. I would go with aluminum bottom metal as it would save some cost and the uncertainty that the conversion would feed well.

For bad weather the hinged bottom metal lets water out instead of trapping it like a blind magazine can. But you have obviously given it some thought and it is your rifle so go for it.

I would take a look at Kevin Weaver of Weaver rifles. He builds a lot of model 70 customs and has built several for me including a 6.5 PRC with a proof carbon barrel and bansner stock. I kept the factory trigger he just tuned it for me and it’s great. I used a new haven classic stainless wsm action on this build.

I should say that I already have a kimber montana that fills the very-light niche for me and shoots very well with reloads. I know the fieldcrafts are excellent, but I feel no need to get one when I already have the little kimber that fills that void.
I also already have this vx5 on my .243, so moving it over is a cost saving measure for me.

BSA1917, yes I suppose am trying to find a bit of middle ground between a classic hunter and light target rifle.

Later season deer hunts are in lower ground in timber or muskegs, or on the beach. Those places I don't mind having a little heavier rifle, and in those places I usually have a good naturally occuring rest to shoot from.

Thank you for the feedback on blind magazines. I think I am going to look in to ptg metal, as that seems the easier conversion and less hassle. And good to hear on the triggers; I like them a lot and glad that they seem to be the better option.

Thank you all again for your insights.

The Montucky and Fieldcraft are light years apart,if/when talking short actions. Hint. Congratulations?!?

The Reupold is junk,no matter where/how it lands. Hint.

'Kiff is a fhuqking snake. Beware. Hint.

You are doing "GREAT". Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your heart for trying.

Hint.

Laughing!...............

I dont know about the blind magazine.
I have a 24" proof sedero lite 300wsm. Its built on a ss classic action with a McMillan HTG Edge stock with a kmw adjustable cheak piece. It weighs right at 7lbs.

Without the adjustable cheek piece I would guess it would be at or under 6.5lbs.

I just finally got all the parts to build its twin in 6.5cm with a 20" proof Sendero lite barrel.

jbuck, I sent you a PM. I'd love to see more info on your builds.

Sent some.

LMAO... You should do 'stand-up', Twig - you might actually make a living...

Between you and me I think somebody should shove a Kreedmore barrel up his ass so far He could use it for a straw

I would take a hard look at a 20” CTR. Not quite 6.5 lbs bare though.

Their factory stocks feel and work great, for me anyway, and I doubt you’ll outshoot one by much even with a custom barrel.

Seekins Havak sounds close as well, for considerably more than the CTR.

Seems to be very similar to what you’re wanting your Winchester to become. Just a thought, nothing wrong with building though

I’ve went from 2 piece bottom metal to blind mag on Winchesters before, no big deal, just need a trigger guard and mag box, both of mine came from Numrich.

Unless you need to go below 2lbs, I would skip the Timney.

Lots of really good 6.5s out there now, that’s very close to what yyou are describing. Worth a look anyway, especially if you’re not sure exactly what you want. I’ve been down that road several times and have lost a ton of money in the end.

Weren't my intent,to horn up a coupla hacks. There's been enough of your SCHIT "work" in circulation. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Fhuqking RETARD. Hint.



If you are gonna go DBM,then assuredly opt AICS footprint and skirt Teeker's proprietary fhuqking attempt(s). Hint.

Glen makes some good stuff,that's for sure. Hint.

The Fieldcraft connects ALL dots and then some,all within a vastly Superior parcel. Hint.

Thank me later.

Just sayin'....................

Thanks very much for the suggestion. Those do look like fine options. However, I am very set on using a winchester 70 as my action. It's what I'm used to and what I like, I prefer CRF, and I specifically want to do a build at this time rather than buying factory. CTR is an option for a fun gun later down the road.

Nothing wrong with that.

Just make sure you want, what you think you want.

It took me, as well as a few guys I know 3-4 builds before figuring it out.

Good luck!

Ultimately, I don't know what I don't know, and If I end up with additional rifles at the end of this process...I can't say I'll be too depressed.

I'm not really a CRF Guy,as I've seen/had more feed/function issues with it,than I have PF...despite PF being a 20:1 representative in the larder. Once things are fixed,they tend to stay fixed,so it's no big deal. Hint. Congratulations?!?

If bent on building,at least opt a blueprint worth a fhuqk. Hint.

I'd rather throw a new spout on a Montucky,remove .050" of the SALAMI throat and connect dots,if forced to build a Kreedmire,over any/all thangs Winny. Though in fairness,the Fieldcraft is yet mechanically superior. Hint.

Bless your heart for trying though.

Hint.............

Just imagine, Twiggy, that IF you actually knew 5% of what you THINK you know, you MIGHT come close to 1/10 of the brains of AOC... Wow. Hint...

Try reading a book some time. Start with the comics - and work up from there... Hint..


Poor Twiggy... He didn't like my story.. 'Twas the truth though - but unfortunately the man who's rifle it was has been dead now for about a decade... His hunting buds found him in his tree stand when he failed to come outta the woods... I went to his funeral... And I still think of him from time to time..

Redwhine,

I needn't Imagine anything,as I simply get to shoot it all and then some,while you "get" to read about it...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I'm as at ease in sandbagging,as you are in talking out your ass and Whining about your very WELL founded and countless Insecurities. Do not "forget",that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery and I'll feign my GREAT "surprise",that you feel compelled to try,as even someone as fhuqking Stupid as you...KNOWS that being you,sure in the fhuqk ain't nearly enough. Hint. LAUGHING!

"Tell" me more about rifles,you Magnificently CLUELESS Fhuqk. Hint.

Bless your heart for trying so hard.

Hint.

LAUGHING!...............

I built a similar rifle to what you’re thinking a couple years ago. You’ll need the blind mag trigger guard, the magazine spring retainer (I’ve only been able to find them for long actions but they can be cut down) and you’ll also need to grind down your magazine box to fit. Here’s a link to the build thread and a couple photos of the parts you’ll need:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13217057/lightweight-hunter-build

Trouble is, Jim, somebody would have to mark the spot - because he's ALL ass.....

Forget the blind mag, go with PT&G aluminum bottom metal and have it cerakoted. The concept of removing the spacer in the mag box for more room sounds good but I've tried it in a short action Win M70 and never could get it to feed right, I'd leave it alone if doing it again. The factory mag box will allow 2.860" which isn't as much as I'd like but should be workable. The factory M70 trigger properly tuned by a good smith is better than an aftermarket trigger, no way I'd change out a new haven trigger. Someone mentioned a Hunter's Edge mcmillan for weight savings, that won't work with the proof sendero lite contour, there's not enough meat there to inlet for it. M70's, even the short action, are fairly heavy actions. 6.5 lbs. bare is going to be tough.

Very easy to get to feed right with the right follower. If you remove the spacer you need to use a full length follower or as you noted it wont feed worth a damn.

Redwhine,

Your Man Lust Fantasies,exceeds your "abilities"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

What next?!? Botched chamber? Throat clearance? Freebore? Bad barrel? "Luckily" you've bombed all,on a single project. Hint.

Jeezus Fhuqk,you CLUELESS Hacks are fhuqking worthless. Hint.

Laughing!.............

In my opinion for a hunting rifle the stock Model 70 trigger can't be improved on. I adjusted mine according to some instructions I read in a magazine 35 years ago and I haven't touched it since. It breaks like glass at about 2 pounds and makes my rifle a pleasure to shoot, other than the recoil on a bench. Damn Model 70 post 63 with that fancy light Monte carlo stock kicks the Chit out of me.

I would not do what you are proposing.

If you are going to replace the trigger, start with a different rifle.

You can easily sell the current rifle and buy a rifle that is already set up for your vision. No sense in taking the hard way.

Not replacing the trigger. Was only asking if some folks had a comparison between the timney and the stock trigger.
I'm also not aware of any rifle I can go out and buy that checks all my boxes. If you know what I'm missing, tell me. I do enjoy the hard way sometimes; I learn a lot more that way.
*and before we go there again: big stick, I know about the fieldcraft. It's not what I want right now. If I buy one in the future you'll be the first to know*

If you want to load longer, use the WSM magazine, follower and bolt stop.

The Winny Whizzum guts,will kick Kreedmire rounds outta da' belly,but that was a NICE fhuqking guess. Hint. Congratulations?!?

'70's in ALL fhuqking fairness,ain't "tricky". It is NO thang,to remove/skew mag spacers,time bolt stops and/or flare ejection ports for COAL requisites. Hint.

Stacking Stupid,atop Stupid,don't make schit "better". Hint.

My "problem" is,I simply fhuqking shoot it all and then some. For that SIMPLISTIC fhuqking reason,wares ain't "equal",nor close. Hint.

The Fieldcraft simply stomps the fhuqking schit outta any/all thangs '70. Hint.

Not that I do not get a KICK outta this fhuqking Retardation! Hint.

Bless your heart for fhuqking trying.

Hint.

LAUGHING!..................