So as I recall.. the barrel threads changed at 1,000,000 but I just wanted to verify this was the case and it was not when the factory moved to Westfield around 1,094,000. Pre was square thread and post was V shaped right? So you could potential modify a premil barrel to fit a postmil receiver with a lathe but not likely the other way around right?

Thanks

That serial would be 1965. I've heard nothing to indicate that the factory didn't move in 1960. I would say there might have been a lot of Chicopee barrels in inventory when they moved.

Since you can't tell the style of thread while the barrel is attached to the action I have collected little info on the subject. I don't remember anyone finding a Chicopee barrel with "V" threads but not sure.

I see in the data that there are Chicopee and Westfield barrels in 1961,1962and 1963. Square or "V" I don't know.

Are the threads per inch the same on both thread styles?

I got the 1,094,000 number from Murray's table of barrel address so...

Maybe George or Jeff (260remguy) have had enough apart to shine some light on this.

I think Jeff has said that he's seen some very early postmil rifles with the square threads.

I've got premil and postmil barrels at home, I'll line them up and take a picture of the threads tonight. Not sure if the thread spacing is the same, but I've wondered about it.

1, I believe is an Acme thread (square) and the other is the standard "V" thread which should be a 60 degree angle. The number of threads per inch will not (should not) be the same.

You gotta take out the filler screws on the top of the action and peer down in with your Mag lite in hand and say to yourself, "square or sharp vee?" I gotta figure a lot of Chicopee barrels with square threads came over in 1960. I had 1,004,7XX and it was still marked Chicopee. So we are talking thousands and thousands of em.

At least some of the very early 99Es in 250-3000 and 300 Savage used leftover 99EG/99R 24" barrels with square threads. I belive that all of the tang safety receivers were cut for V-threads and that the 99Es made after 1960/61 were also all cut for V-threads.

I have heard, or been told, that the very early tang safety 99Fs in 250-3000 also had square threads, using the leftover square thread inventory, but I have never pulled a barrel from an early tang safety 99F in 250-3000, so I don't know that this rumor is true.

JEff

Drew, Murray's info on Style 9 and 10 is all wrong.

Savage started production at Chicopee with serial 500,000 not 438,000.

Serial 1,094,000 was 1965 not 1960.

In my notes I find a reference to an earlier Westfield barrel marking than the Style 10.

I have no rifles in the early 1,000,000 range so someone else will have to verify.

I would like to know if the Chicopee marked barrels used on the post 1,000,000 rifles are square or "V". This has been asked before but we have not been able to answer.

yeah, If get an opportunity to help out, I will. Taking the screws out and looking is probably the best most are going to be able to do.

O.K. guys i did a little checking ,99F s/n 957,xxx has acme or square threads. may two Westfield rifles with Chicopee barrels a 99E and 99F in the s/n range of 1,020,xxx both have 60 degree v type threads . i could see them thru the front scope mounting hole after i removed the plug screw. Don

Thanks Don... really appreciate the extra effort. So now we know with some certainty that the V shaped threads were not JUST a Westfield thing.

I assume Savage had a bunch of Chicopee barrels left over and when they finished them for the Westfield actions they threaded them with the V threads. Don

Thanks Don, always something new to learn.

It would be nice to verify with a serial closer to the 1,000,000 serial. As the first post million rifles used a new safety system they might have all been made with the new "V" thread.

Since Savage 99 actions were virtually hand-made, assembled from a pile of parts, by a room full of craftsmen, it would have been possible for some of the post-1960 receivers to be cut with square threads to use existing stocks of barrels. Remember that the 1960 99Es had 24" barrels in 300 Savage and I have never seen a straight tapered 24" barrel with V-threads.

I've never seen a tang safety 99 action with square threads, nor have I seen a 99ER, 99F, or 99R lever safety action with V-threads. I don't have a 1960 99E with a 24" barrel to check, but it seem illogical that Savage would cut them with V-threads when there was existing inventory of 24" square threaded barrels sitting in inventory. Tang safety 99Fs in 250-3000 were cataloged post-1960, but there seem to be darned few of them around, so I think that it is reasonable to assume, until we know for sure, that Savage might have cut some of those tang safety 99F receivers with square threads to use the existing inventory of 22" square thread 250-3000 barrels.

JEff

Is it safe to assume that barrel shanks were threaded at time of contouring and maker/location stamping? If hand fitted, wouldn't the threads and extractor cuts be done as a last assembly step? Even if hand fitting was not the case post-1960, the Chicopee bbls could have been threadless when they reached Westfield. (Assuming Chicopee marked bbls were actually made in Chicopee.)

Might explain why M1920 and M99 bbls with respective patent date stamps were so frequently interchanged. Granted, 4 decades difference, but same process, same rifle.

Another question, were barrel and receiver assembled before or after bluing? Has anybody ever asked JC, or did anybody ask Roe Clark about what the assembly line steps were?

I doubt it. While not a machinist given the vast difference between the square thread and the V thread I doubt that one could be redone to the other. There's just too much space between threads on a square thread to make it a V thread and the V thread is too close coupled to remake into a square thread. If anything I would suggest that any barrels that may have been already roll stamped would have had un-threaded shanks and would have been threaded as needed to complete whichever rifle receiver they were screwed into. As evidence of that I submit that Savage would re-barrel receivers at least into the '70s regardless of vintage if above serial 90,000. I would think that the tooling to cut both threads would have been available in the early '60s to cut threads as needed since all that is required is a lath and a qualified operator. While we don't as yet have definitive data I would submit that any overlap wouldn't have extended beyond '61 or '62 at the latest. JMO. Others may vary.

I have heard, or been told, that the very early tang safety 99Fs in 250-3000 also had square threads, using the leftover square thread inventory, but I have never pulled a barrel from an early tang safety 99F in 250-3000, so I don't know that this rumor is true. (quote)

Jeff, I have a '60 F in 250-3000. Chicopee Falls barrel address, 1 in 10 twist, serial # 10060xx. I just pulled the scope and front base and it has flat threads so I guess the rumor is true.
I hope this helps.

Lee

WOW!!! A square thread barrel with a 1-10" ROT would run counter to my assumption, since existing inventory, pre-mil, 99F barrel SHOULD have been cut with a 1-14" ROT. The plot thickens!!!

JEff

I would have thought that the finished barrels in inventory would have had the shanks threaded, since it would have been more expensive and time consuming to thread the barrels after they had been put into inventory, particularly since it is likely that 99+% of the post-mil 99 receivers were cut with v-threads and 100% of the pre-mil 99 receivers were cut with square threads.

I think that the non-cataloged 99s that Savage put together with parts from the existing inventory in the mid-1970s don't really meet the test as being "real" production guns, 'cause the small volumes and non-standard configurations involved were assembled in a non-production environment and that sort of "job shop" work lends itself to special, make-do, machine work, such as cutting square threads in small lots of unfinished tang safety 99 receivers.

JEff

If anyone here still is in touch with Steve "Savageparts" I'd wager that he could shed a little light on this topic. IIRC at one time he stated that he did re-barreling while he worked for Savage.

And now the gun Jacks Pa just posted!!

Just to throw some numbers out from a quick eyeballing with a tape measure...

1895 barrel has 12 square threads per inch.
1899H takedown barrel has 12 square threads per inch.
Westfield 99F barrel has 14 V threads per inch.
Savage 11 barrel has 20 square threads per inch.


I know nobody cares about the last one, but it was laying there so I measured.

Savage 110 series rifles don't have square threads, but they are 20 TPI.

JEff

Hmm.. looked flattened to me when I looked straight down at them, but they are a dull V shape. Thanks for correction.

Well Jeff, Rory has me wondering. When I pulled the scope of my 1960 F the top appeared flat but I didn't notice if the groove of the threads were tapered or "V" shaped.

Lee

Back in 2008 I posted here of a 99 243 that I picked up. S/N 967,8XX that lettered being shipped late December 1959. This post brought me back to that discussion as this rifle has a Westfield barrel on it. I finally got home, pulled the scope and the front screw and lo and behold, square threads. At least that answered the question from before. But, looking at Murrays, the barrel address is style shown for the new 99A. Keep in mind that nowhere on the barrel does it indicate that this an F but it has the F forearm, the barrel boss for the rear sight and 22" barrel. An F in every respect other than the Westfield barrel marking. I gotta believe that it must have been a factory rebarrel job. Now to put the mongrel back to bed!