Looking at oldtimer303's nice RS got me thinking. Seems to me we have at least 4 versions of the RS as far as stock style and checkering goes. If you throw in the change from Lyman to Redfield I suppose you could call it five? And maybe even six, because I think there were some prewar R's/RS's with 3pt checkering on the buttstock but without the extra point on the forearm?

1) First is prewar, no fluted comb, has 3pt checkering and Lyman tang sight.



2) Second is prewar, fluted comb, 3pt checkering and Lyman tang sight. (Checkering on the side panel doesn't count).



3) Third is prewar, fluted comb, 3pt checkering on buttstock, Lyman tang sight, but forearm checkering without the extra point.

4) Fourth is prewar, fluted comb, has 2pt checkering on buttstock, Lyman tang sight, and forearm without extra point.

5) Fifth is prewar, fluted comb, has 2pt checkering, and Redfield tang sight.



6) Sixth is postwar, no fluted comb, triangular checkering on forearm, Redfield tang sight.




Am I missing anything? Or have too many?

I have #1 but mine has a rear flip down Marbles sight which somebody here told me was sometimes on 99s of this era. Doesnt know if that makes it a "different" version to you or not.

Oh boy.. if we get into rear sights and even sight different blanks that were used I think we'd hit the double digits.

Good point, tho. Maybe we should..

I have an R that according to Murrays serial number chart was manufactured in 1933. The stock and forearm are identical to #1. Is it me, or is the length of pull on the pre-war R/RS longer than other models?

What is the length of pull on yours? You show me yours and I'll show you mine. On a serious note, there may well be a difference as the post war "R" was quite a bit heavier than the pre war "R". Savage called the post war "R" "the rifleman's rifle" or some such. Advertising to make you believe that the "R" was more accurate than the "EG" or later the post war "F". Personally, I don't believe that's true. I'm thinking that it was just different wood and sights other than the boss on the post war "F" barrel. I well could be wrong. Its happened.

Some of the K's were fitted with that sight as well.

Let's see... stock dimensions and length of pull are described here, which I would think would apply to versions 1 to 5:

"This new rifle is known as the Savage Model 99-RS rifle. It has a solid frame, a modern design pistol grip stock, length 13 1/2 inches, drop at comb 1 5/8 inchese. dro at heel 2 7/8 inches. It is fitted with a new checked steel shotgun butt plate 5 1/16 inches long which is set on the stock with a 2 1/2-inch pitch. The stock fits the average rifleman perfectly and comes up in perfect line, making snap shooting very much faster than with the old stock, and enabling the shooter to hold with real steadiness in any position."

Full size Writeup




Seeing as to how I have #'s 1, 5 and 6 I'll see if I can't find time to pull them out and get a picture of them side by side this spring.

What you need to do is see how the serial number ranges varies with each of the patterns.

Could be the guy that made RS stocks was hungover one morning.

No, I think we have pretty consistent serial number ranges for each of the changes that I've listed. They seem to be in both the R's and RS's - not that we have a lot of RS's to review. I was mostly wondering if I'd missed anything or not included something such as RAS's suggestion for rear sights. I'll put up what I have for serial number ranges in the next day or two, then Drew and Rick can correct me.

I think the commonly found rear sights would be a good notation to have for each of the versions, don't think it should change the versions.

I considered listing the Winchester cartridge/900,000 serial number range RS's as another version since the receiver was changed.

Do any of you own a 99RS in .303 Savage?

Not I.. JA didn't even have one at the Fest now that I look through the pics, though he had a 30-30.

. In 1993, a guy at a gun show offered me a 99R/RS ? in .303, wanted $300. flat firm. I thought a bit much for another .303.
He went out of the show carrying it.

Boy,,,, I've thought about that many a time since.

Let's see, 20 years plus inflation....OMG!

I have seen one RS in .303. A couple of years ago I went into a
local gunshop and saw a couple of 99s on the rack and one was
an RS, it was busy and I didnt look at anything and left.
Came back a day or two later and one 99 was gone, asked the
clerk what caliber it was and I expected him to say .300 and
was kind of puzzled when he said .303 Savage. He said it was
only on the shelf for maybe half a day and a guy bought it
about a minute after he looked at it.

Rory,

to the best of my knowledge and records, your listed #3 does not exist... I have never seen a prewar R or RS that had a three point buttstock but a two point forearm.

Also, the RS was not offered in 303 or 30-30. The R was cataloged in the 303 and several here own them. The R was not cataloged in 30-30 but a group of them was built at the factory on order for Spiegel guns.

I know that RSs were cataloged in the post war eras but I have yet to ever see a box, hang tag, or letter stating that a post war RS ever actually existed. If it did, you wer just paying extra to get a reciever sight but were getting no rear sight... The prewar RS included added sling studs, sling swivels, and a sling as well as the tang sight and a fold down rear sight. The Post War RS does not seeem like a very good deal from that stand point.


Long story short, I only see three transitions in the RS and have pretty tight data on what serial ranges the changes happen... first is the not fluted to fluted change, second would be the three point to two point checkering change, and three would be the change from the tang sight (Lyman windage adjustable) and rear fold down sight to the receiver (redfield 70LH) and rear sight blank.

I agree the 30-30 RS is questionable, JA at the SavageFest had one labeled as a RS that was a NY police issue - presumed he had a letter, but looking at it and there's no sling studs and wrong sight so I'd have to call it an 99R.

Could have sworn I had a 99R/RS with mixed checkering in my notes, but don't see it. Know I saw one, but it might have just been a "transition" rifle or swapped stock. So happy to remove that from the list.

Going to dispute that you can remove the 1950's 99RS from the list.. there is NO way that Savage paid for advertising for something for 10 years and never sold one. I agree it was a poor deal to pay more to get a peep sight in the times of factory d&t and the arrival of affordable scopes. And maybe when they got an order for an RS they just grabbed an R and swapped rear sights and threw on a peep - but it was catalogued for a long time. 99R's in 243 are rare as hens teeth also and I've never seen a box for one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or that somebody swapped an EG in 243 barrel onto an R and thus we can't say that 99R's in 243 don't really exist.

I'm going to argue for the switch from Lyman to Redfield peep as being revisions rather than versions. Advantage there is we will end up with the same number of versions of 99R's and 99RS's - and swapping a peep sight is not much of a version change.

So.. new proposed list of versions that should match up to both 99R's and 99RS's.

1) First is prewar, no fluted comb, has 3pt checkering and Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight, Lyman #6 rear sight. Serial number range of 342,5xx to 345,8xx.



2) Second is prewar, fluted comb, 3pt checkering, Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight, Lyman #6 rear sight. (Checkering on the side panel doesn't count). Serial number range from 345,8xx to 355,6xx.



3) Third is prewar, fluted comb, has 2pt checkering on buttstock, 1 less point on forearm checkering, and forearm without extra point. 357,8xx to 414,3xx. Revision 1 has a Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight with Lyman #6 rear. Revision 2 has a Redfield 70LH tang sight with rear sight blank.

Rev.1 with Lyman 30 1/2 from 357,8xx to 378,8xx.


Rev. 2 with Redfield 70LH from 386,xxx to 415,xxx'ish.


4) Fourth is postwar, no fluted comb, triangular checkering on forearm, d&t for scope bases, Redfield 70LH tang sight, sling eyes. 532,xxx to 775,xxx?

5) Fifth is postwar, no fluted comb, triangular checkering on forearm, d&t for scope bases, Redfield tang sight, sling eyes, receivers long enough to handle the 243/308/358 Winchester cartridges. 900,000 to 969,xxx?





Gaps in serial number ranges are because we have no samples inside of those ranges.

Rory, I think that it should be noted as a Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight with Lyman #6 rear; Redfield 70LH with rear sight blank.

The post war RS was not supplied with sling or hooks.

You might add that the post war R/RS's were D&T'ed.

How about the R-T's? Though they were not pictured in the catalog it is pretty much fact that it was what was shipped as the "R".

The later F had a fluted comb. I don't have data on the later EG, R or RS to them having a fluted comb or not. Anyone know?

Drew, looking at your list of R/RS's the 30-30 of JA's is listed with a 24" barrel. I think that needs to be checked because I would think that they were 22".

I've got a pre-war R in 303.

Rick, I was intentionally leaving the RT's out of the list of RS's, though I do agree that it should get a note or version # in the R list.

Don't recall ever seeing a late 1950's 99R with fluted comb, only the F's. Don't recall any late EG's with fluted comb either, but could be wrong on that.

JA's R in 30-30 definitely does NOT have a 24" barrel in my pics. 22".

I'll make the other updates, thx.

MD, you need to forward the details of your R-303 to Drew so he can add it and anyother pre-war R/RS's you have to his list.

I think he already has the info but I'll check with him, I bought it off Blair 2years ago so it's probably listed under his name.

I do have MDs 303 in my logs under blair's name.

Joe, can you please confirm that your gun has a fluted comb? a 24" barrel? (all others in my log are 22") And that the numbers match?

Rory,

99R in 243 in the box here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=326549966

Also, the earliest RS with a redfield in my logs belongs to a member here and is 384,7xx. (there is one outlier in the Lyman to Redfield transition)

I also don't have any info for John A's 30-30R... the only one that I have in my log is Fugs now and I believe used to belong to Doug Murray.

There are a few outliers in the R data base regarding fluted combs. Joe's 303R is in my records with a fluted comb well before the fluted combs started showing up consistently. There is also another 303R that was for sale at the KC gun show years ago (Rick you might remember this) and was later linked to here and someone on the board here bought it (it was really nice!). Anyways, serial is 343,57x and it is in my records as having a fluted comb. Other than those two, the data is really consistent.

I also do not have any records of late Rs or EGs with fluted combs in my personal records though not all of my guns have that info recorded... I do seem to recall a really late 99EG with a fluted comb but could be wrong.

just as an FYI... I have 103 recorded prewar Rs and RSs. As well as 27 RTs.

So.. list of 99RS versions that should match up to 99R versions. Updated with new/better pictures and slightly edited descriptions.

V1) First is pre-WW2, no fluted comb, flat bottomed sling studs, came with sling, 3pt checkering and Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight, Lyman #6 rear sight. Serial number range of 342,5xx to 345,8xx.



V2) Second is pre-WW2, fluted comb, 3pt checkering, flat bottomed sling studs, came with sling, Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight, Lyman #6 rear sight. (Checkering on the side panel doesn't count). Serial number range from 345,8xx to 355,6xx.



V3) Third is pre-WW2, fluted comb, 2pt checkering on buttstock, 1 less point on forearm checkering than V2, flat bottomed sling studs, came with sling. 357,8xx to 414,3xx.
-> Revision 1 has a Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight with Lyman #6 rear.
-> Revision 2 has a Redfield 70LH peep sight with rear sight blank.

Revision 1 with Lyman 30 1/2 from 357,8xx to 378,8xx.


Revision 2 with Redfield 70LH from 386,xxx to 415,xxx'ish.


V4) Fourth is post-WW2, no fluted comb, triangular checkering on forearm, d&t for scope bases, Redfield 70LH peep sight, sling eyes, not sold with hooks or sling. 532,xxx to 775,xxx?

V5) Fifth is post-WW2, no fluted comb, triangular checkering on forearm, d&t for scope bases, Redfield 70LH peep sight, sling eyes, not sold with hooks or sling, receivers long enough to handle the 243/308/358 Winchester cartridges. 900,000 to 969,xxx. Identical in appearance to V4, just internals of the receiver changed.





Gaps in serial number ranges are because we have no samples inside of those ranges.

Rory, all of the pre war RS you have photos of above have added sling eyes?

No, the pictured pre-WW2 99RS's all have original flat bottomed sling studs. Though now I notice that V2 picture is missing a buttstock slingstud. Need a picture of a more original V2 specimen with the Lyman 30 1/2, if anybody happens to have one to donate.

Buttstock Slingstud picture here

Thanks for posting these photos and the accompanying descriptions Rory.

I picked up a late pre-war RS in .300 recently that I'll post photos of soon.

Rod

Rory

V2 now has the missing butt stock stud. Had to buy a shooter grade RS to get the stud. Pre war RS shooter 300 with non correct studs and added wood cheek piece now for sale. GW

Nice! I have to admit I did that on one of mine as well. I like that rifle (can't get a much classier hunting gun!), but for purposes of showing the different versions, it would be nice to have a picture of an unmodified specimen.

I have three EGs with 900,000+ serial numbers. After reading this thread I pulled them from the gun safe. No. 907,8xx (.308) and No. 925,0xx (.243) do not have fluted combs.

But, No. 967,3xx (.358) does have a fluted comb. LBC is 11K making it a 1959 rifle. This rifle also has a folding rear sight which appears to be original. Murray's book says the rear sight on the F was changed to a folding sight in 1959, so I'm wondering if this is the same sight. Which also leads me to wonder if Savage ran out of EG/R parts and used F parts where possible on late EG/R rifles.

Sorry, but I haven't taken the time yet to figure out the details of how to post photos. (I have read the info in the misc good info post.)

From google overtime the 99RS was dropped in 1958 and the 99R continued until 1960. Tom

Yep, I've seen late 99EG's with fluted combs. Don't know what the cutoff is, didn't think to save all of the serial numbers on them. Once they started drilling and tapping the EG receivers for scopes, I would expect they probably started with folding rear sights.

EG in 358... good find!

have you sent me the info on that one yet? Not a huge deal but we could still tighten the numbers up a little... though frankly, they are probably "tighter" than any other model transition.

Drew--

I'll send you the info on it soon.

Rod

Just a note. J.A. has a pre-war 303 R, but I don't know the serial number. Could ask next time I see him if interested.

I have a post war R in 300. It has flat bottom sling studs that look like the one in the picture in the link posted above. I think mine is a 1951. The studs are wider than new studs, and new swivels won't work because the stud is so wide they won't latch. I really didn't notice the little spring loaded latch wasn't secure until the sling came off walking across a field last year. I grabbed the sling before the rifle hit the ground, but the muzzle did get a load of mud in it. What should post war studs look like, Joe.

Do you have measurements on those studs?

Post war Rs have sling eyes, not studs.

You may have something of value there!

Ya, I'm wondering if I'm actually seeing my first post war 99RS.

My 1950 R in 250 has eyes. The 51 R in 300 has studs. All I had was a tape measure and they look to be about 3/8 across the flats. I took a picture, but my cell hasn't been uploading. If I can get it to upload to photobucket I'll get them posted, Joe.

So, should I get this one lettered? This is the one I put the big Leupold on to make my pig gun. I've got a couple pictures of it on photobucket, but I don't think you can see the studs. I'll see if I can link into the computer and get the pics that way, Joe.

My premil 300 R bought here. Now wears a Kollmorgen 4X post and CH scope. Deadly with 130 TSXs @2800 fps.

Terrible pics, you can almost see the studs. Trying to upload better pics through the computer. Have to wait till my son isn't busy, Joe.

The postwar RS was advertised with sling eyes, not studs.

Larry Root. Again.

Love/d my 99s. Do YOU have any or just here to pirate the thread ?

Larry, this is an informational thread. Please keep off of it.

Could a pr-war 367xxx with flat bottom studs, 2-point, fluted comb, lyman flipdown .... BUT with a Lyman 29 1/2 be an RS? ... could a 30 1/2 had a part changed to make it a 29 1/2? sling is missing.

Never say never.. but I would want a letter if it could show RS vs R.

Yep, posted about that in the other thread, just had to go through my catalogs.

The tang sight is two screws off/on. Having the correct tang sight makes it complete. Having/not having doesn't the correct sight doesn't tell you much. It is too easy to change.

That serial will letter which is the best evidence of originality.

There are variations in the Lyman 30 1/2. I wish we had collected some data on that when the R/RS survey was done.

Safe to say this is a Version 3, Type 2?

Serial umber is 407xxx (1941) 2pt, checkering, Redfield Peep with slot filled dovetail and flat bottomed sling studs?

Were the factory slings all 7/8"?

Somewhere along the way it was sent to G&H for the scope mount and has a 2-3/4" Bear Cub.

That should be fun in the woods! The checkering on the cheeks looks to have been there most of it's life.

I like it. Looks very business like. The way the screws for the G&H mount are flush is a bonus. As they say "that dog will hunt". Nice rifle.

If you like it you can buy it.

It on GB

Wow, $105 seems like quite a deal!.... but lets wait 9 days and see if it's still that price. At $105, I don't like , I love it.

Yeah, I got a .358 that I like...

I did some research when I first got it 15 years ago, it seems that G&H was set up to do the flush grinding of the mounting screws. There are G&H mounts out there installed aftermarket with the screw heads visible.

The screw heads (3) and tapered pins (2) were left long so that after installation was complete they could be ground flush before bluing. Screws supplied to the trade along with the mounts were not so- or at least that's what I'm led to believe.

I seriously doubt either Savage or G&H checkered those wrist panels. Wavy borders and an uncommon amount of runovers. Mullered border doesn't match the factory border. Number of lines per inch don't match the factory checkering either, and the diamonds are too square- the 3 to 1 rule was disobeyed. Kind of amateurish, IMO.

An FYI, I just found a letter from JT Callahan about this gun I forgot I ordered 15 years ago, it confirms it's an RS and that it shipped on Nov. 4, 1942. Nothing more specific to the gun.

Interesting on date. 1941/1942 is tricky with a lot of war production, so not sure how consistently sporting guns went to. Great gun!

SN really messes with David's table B-2

Any given rifle may get accepted or shipped up to a year(?) later than other guns in the same serial number range. I think I’ve seen this on every ledger page I’ve ever looked at. So the average gun on a page may get accepted and ship in July ,1910 - but some will ship months later than the others.

So is his ship date the norm for that range, or is it one of the late ones?

No guarantees about the accuracy of table B-2. It was the best (only) info I could come with. With the factory's concentration on making war materials during that time the records may have been done too quickly to trust their accuracy.