I just finished making a batch of .22 HP from 30-30 brass. This project turned out to be much easier than I had figured on.
I started out with new Remington brass. The first step was to neck size to .284 right to the start of the shoulder, then I neck sized to .257 staying about .090 away from the shoulder, and then full length sizing with the HP dies. The last step is to trim the cases by about .030
The neck wall thickness is .012-.013 witch is the same as an original HP case. Out of 50 cases I only lost 3 and that was due to using too much case lube.

where did you get your bullets?
dave

I'm using .228 70 grain Hornady bought right here in Edmonton.

That's kind of how I do it, but I run them through a .250-3000 die instead, then into the .22HP die. Case loss is entirely due to too much lube, but is a tricky balance between too much and not enough. I found that Imperial Sizing Wax went a long way toward solving the problem.

That, or I usually just push .25/35 brass straight into the .22HP die and be done with it.

25-35 brass is pretty rare in this part of the world. I looked all over and there was none to be had.

Thats what I did, but I had a fair amount of old 25-35 in stock.
Note: Using old 25-35 your probably smart to anneal the necks 1st, a lot of the old stuff seems brittle.

25-35 through the 22HP FL die is a one step process , easiest way to go if you don't have 22HP brass.


Mike

Altaboy,

Have you worked up a load with the Hornady 70's?

Hey John
I went into Ken Waters pet loads and tried a couple of his recipies substituting the Hornady bullets. Most of the loads worked OK but 25 grains of H4895 seemed to work the best in my rifle. 2"-2/12" groups at 100 meters with irons.
I'm wondering if Hornady has reworked the HP bullit since Ken Waters did his testing.

They hadn't when I was doing a lot of loading the .22 HP 6-8 years ago, but whether or not they shoot in a particular 99 depends on the exact twist. The common rifling machine back when those rifles were made was a sine-bar, and twist could vary an inch or so either way. (I once had a .250-3000 99 with a 1-15 twist, which caused me some problems until I figured it out....) If the twist in yours is tighter than the standard 1-12 the Hornady bullets should shoot, even if the bullet hasn't been shortened up a little.

In my rifle the most accurate bullets were mostly .224's, much like Ken's experience. It REALLY shot 60-grain Nosler Partitions, as I recall in 1.5" or less, with a tang sight. I used them on quite a few prairie dogs out to 150 yards or so.

Just curious, how about 22-250 brass?

No rim.

That's what I thought too. I misread Gnoahh' post on running the brass through a 250-3000 die to infer he was using 250 brass. On re-read I now realize he was using the die but not the brass. Yes, the rim issue had me puzzled.

Thanks Fireball.


I have a master's degree in English and I still can't read.

Thanks for the info guys!

Dad has had an old Savage 99 in .22 High Power for many years. We've stretched the limited factory ammo about as far as it can go. I think he's down to one box of the Canadian ammo, and I've got a box of Norma.

Hornady makes a 70 gr .227" soft point - but I seem to recall reading that the .224" bullets actually shot more accurately, by far. Must have been John's article! Any way to get a copy of the info?

I know a set of dies for the old rifle will cost me dear, but I'd like to load for it, as a hobby if nothing else.

His rifle is kind of neat, as it has a tang sight, and also a .410 shotgun barrel that screws right on.

Thanks, Guy

In my experience, the .224 bullets didn't shoot any better for me. In fact, just the opposite is true. Just goes to show how rifles differ.

The .227 Hornady is a real crap shoot, with the odds favoring it not shooting nicely. The hang up is in the length of that long spire point design. It is marginally of a length to fully stabilize in the nominal 1-12" rate of twist in our old Savage rifles. About a tenth of an inch too long, as a matter of fact.

Sadly there aren't many alternatives. Buffalo Arms carries lighter (shorter) .228 bullets that fill the bill, but I suspect their deer-killing efficiency due to their thinner jackets. They do shoot much better though. Scour the gun shows and other repositories of the obscure/arcane shooting supplies for old Sisk and Speer .228 70 grain bullets. They are the cat's a$$ in the .22HP, because being of semi-pointed design, are short enough to stabilize in the old Savages. (They are similar in shape to the current Norma and S&B HP bullets.)

There are indeed those who find .224 bullets to shoot beautifully in their HPs. If you try them, note two things: One, you must swap out the expander ball in the sizer die (something to take into account when looking at old used dies- are the expander plugs available?), and two, .004" is a lot for a hard gilding metal jacket to bump up and seal the bore to prevent hot powder gasses from cutting past and scouring the steel away in the throat of your 100 year old barrel. Not a huge issue if the gun is fired but seldomly, but since HP's are so much fun to shoot, you may find yourself shooting it a lot and then who knows?

Remember too that the bulk of these HP barrels were made back in the days when accuracy of bore diameters and rifling twists were as dependent upon operator skill and alertness as much as the efficiency of the machines. Accordingly, diameters and ROT's vary, and you might get lucky and find the unaltered 70 gr. Hornadys to serendipitously shoot great in your rifle. If so, hurry down to the local lottery agent and buy a Powerball ticket too!

Thanks much for that info!

I would like to do some handloading for the old Savage, and perhaps a little coyote hunting with it as well. Minimum bore size here in Washington, for deer, is .243, so it's not destined to do any deer hunting, not here anyway.

Would be a hoot to take it to Wyoming and try to stalk a pronghorn doe with it though... I could see that happening!

Regards, Guy

Just to resurrect this thread, made my first 25-35 case about ten minutes ago.



Now, just need Hi-Power dies.

Ted

Done! Couldn't wait for the new die set to arrive, so necked the above-pictured 30-30 case that was reformed to 25-35 down to 22, and then seated a 60 gr Hornady .224" flat base using 22-250 FL die set.




The case on the left is the reformed 30-30 brass, the right a factory S&B. They both chamber perfectly in my old BRNO ZH305 22HP/12Ga combination gun.

New RCBS die set is en route, and should arrive next week.

Ted

Dies arrived late yesterday. Tried them out today using some old once-fired Imperial 30-30 brass I had in a box.



Now, it just needs to warm up, -24C here this morning.

Ted

I now make most of my HP brass from.30-30 because it’s free this time of year especially, at most ranges.

I have found.224 bullets to work as well, especially the 63 grain Sierra semi-pointed.

I have often considered making a.225 barrel for my HP, but there are a number of more rational uses if my time much higher on the list.

Don't over look Dan the Bullet Man's cast .22 HP bullets.
The Bull Shop here in Montana.

My 22 HP loves these gas checked 64 grain bullets. I push them about 2200 fps.

Meant to say.224 barrel. Big thumbs, little phone

And this is why MD is not allowed to retire. Who else would know such obscure but interesting trivia. I have no skin in this threas. Never owned a 22HP and doubt I ever will. I reax these becaue to me it is interesting and I learn stuff. I now have fewer excuses for not owning the GAC series.

I use the Buffalo Arms 55gr 228 bullet in my combo gun and they are extremely accurate, makes a great coyote rig with 1 1/4 oz of NP BB's in the shotgun barrel.



I found 150 rounds of S&B brass so no need to make any for me.

Old post I know, but I have done that twice now. My "second" one is actually being made now so I shouldn't refer to it in past tense I guess, but it is being lined with a 1/10 .224" Douglas. Neither of my original .22 Savage's shot any .224" bullet worth a darn, from the 35 VMAX to 75 AMAX and easily 20 bullets in between. All but the 63 SMP keyholed at 10 yards, in both rifles. The 63 SMP patterned like a shotgun but at least it hit the target nose first.

I did shoot a good mule deer buck with one of the rifles using a 70 grain .228" Sisk, but those bullets are pretty hard to find.

You are lining an original barrel, correct? I'm surprised that wasn't done more often in the past as the 22HP round was phased out.

I get .228 bullets from Reeds. I shot all kinds of Norma and S&B, keyholed at 25 yds due to the .224 pill. The .228 at least makes round holes, just have to find the right load.

Here is the Reeds page:

https://shop.reedsammo.com/228-for-22-Savage-Hi-Power-56x52R_c367.htm

Blitz

I wonder if perhaps the European barrels have slightly smaller bores? My BRNO 305 and others I am aware of all shoot .224 bullets reasonably well. Certainly good enough to hunt with.

Ted

Correct.




If I had known about those I would have tried them, but oh well. Only the .228 Sisk would shoot in that rifle that I could find. I tried the .227" Hornady (both original and shortened), some of gnoahhh's .228" lead bullets as well as a few others. All but that 70 grain .228" Sisk and .224 SMP keyholed. The Sisk was pretty darn accurate.






I assume you're referring to the 5.6x52R? I have no idea.....but the couple S&B loads I tried in my .22 Savage Hi-Powers keyholed, like most everything else.

I am lucky, have a good stash of 22hp brass, and through a generous member here I have some sisk & speer bullet

I had almost given up on the HP 22 I have. It belonged to one of my best friends who passed at the age of 44 and I finally decided to try reloading. The Savage forum here has a great deal of info on the HP 22 and reloading. Seems that most of them don't like a .224 bullet and prefer a .228 in 70gr. In my case I started off to hot, but at least it made round holes and were at least grouping. Just got to find that sweet spot for this particular rifle.

I make brass out of new 25-35 cases. Just run it through the resizing die.

What bullets and powder charges have you tried, Blitz?

The 70 gr Speer .224 semi point shoots MOA in my solid frame.

I tried 2 different loads with both 70gr and 60gr Reeds .228 bullets. Loads were:

25.3 gr RL7 - 5 rounds each
25.3 gr IMR3031 - 5 rounds each
24.3 gr RL7 - 5 rounds each
24.3 gr IMR3031 - 5 rounds each

Total - 40 rounds

All loads produced split cases at the base of the neck, but not all cases. It was about 65%.

I suspect either too hot, or not annealing. Haven't had time to do any reloading as of late, as other life things have taken priority.

But it shot round holes, albeit high and to the left. Could of been the scope, who knows? An old J4 weaver scope, probably needs TLC too.

Lots of variables to eliminate one at a time. All of this is new to me, but being a scientific principle type of guy, I will eliminate them one at a time.

Let the fun begin!

Blitz, that 24.3 of 3031 is where you want to be. Mine likes it a tad hotter but shot good right there also. Im using Speer 70gr in .228.

Joe.

A few years back Gary posted a guy was selling a pile of Norma 71 grain. I bought 3 boxes, should have bought them all, I'm down to the last box. We settled on the 24.3 grain of 3031 load. My buddy picked up a box of the Hornady's and at 23 grains of 3031, I was surprised they shot to the same point of aim as the Norma's. Most of the range work has been at 50 yards and both loads were easy 1 1/2". I've only shot the Norma's at 100 yards, and the group is tight, and only a tad bigger. This was with the Malcolm that Randy quoted was like, "Looking through a glass of milk", and the tang sight. The tang and scope grouped at the same point of aim. Now that the Malcolm has been rebuilt, I hope it shoots a little better.
I took the nice little 8 point with the HP. I think I originally said it was about a 40 yard shot. I was measuring where the deer stepped out of the long grass into the mowed, to the other side of the long grass. I didn't take into account that my stand is 15-20 yards over the hill, so the shot may have been 60 yards. Like Roy's famous shot, I don't think you have ever seen the little 8 point before, so here it is. As far as how far the deer moved, I think it blinked one eye.

If you notice the weird shape of the hind leg on the deer, the neighbor that is a great hunter, never gets buck fever, and never misses a shot, shot four times and hit it in the rear knee.

That was merciful of you to put him out of his misery. He woulda had a hard time breeding with a leg like that. The girls probably would have shunned him anyway.

Blitz, you're working in the realm of powder charges in which I always found success with all the HP's I've owned, and the bullets are superb. I can't explain the split cases from afar, but would caution you to anneal your neck/shoulders before the next attempt. My deepest suspicions lie with your scope. It's an abysmal device for use in seeking fine accuracy.

Find an overall length that is long enough to fit nicely in what is probably a well worn throat, but not so long as to not feed through the magazine, if repeating shots through the magazine is your goal (pointless IMO unless you'll use it for hunting).

Does anybody who reports dis-satisfaction with their .22HP handloads take the time to measure bullet runout in their finished ammo? Devices to check that are cheap and quick/easy to use, and often tell the tale of why it won't shoot. Don't trust that your dies are perfect and your loading techniques are perfect - the dial indicator will confirm or deny that, it doesn't lie. If the bullet departs the case crookedly, it'll depart the barrel crookedly and will yaw as it flies.

Those bullets Fireball displayed are, in my opinion, the very best ever mass produced for the HP. Grab them when you can. Reed's and Buffalo Arms are the best "boutique" modern made HP bullets IMO. Speer .227/.228 70 grain semi-spitzers always shoot well but have dried up. (I've always been a little suspicious of the Speers for a weird reason - they leave contrails as they fly through the air for me, sort of like blue/gray tracers, and leave suspicious gray "comet tail marks" on the target paper, at the same time shooting quite accurately believe it or not. I suspect the lead cores are melting a bit and make me wary about shooting them into an animal. No other brand does that

Hornady 70's have dried up too, but are a PIA to make work anyway - depending on the exact twist of your barrel, your elevation above sea level, and ambient temperature/humidity. (It's why most reports of success with that bullet are reported by guys out West at higher elevations than we lowlanders sitting at or near sea level.) The cure is to shorten the bullets until they work - I've found .750" length to be the max length for general utility. Another cure is to drive them at insanely higher velocity to overcome some of those limitations a little, but our poor Savages won't stand for it, nor will our brass.

As for cast bullets, if you're loading at around 1600-1800 fps with a bullet that fits the throat/leade and is of a short enough length as is the #228367 mold I use, there's no logical reason for it not to work. 7 grains Unique is about right. Don't try to make a deer hunting bullet out of it.

Starting around 15 years ago and ending 5-6 years ago I hoovered up every damned .228 bullet I could find. A hoarder I became. That crusade provided enough bullets of every make imaginable to last me the rest of my life, but it cost me a lot of treasure to do so. Nowadays when I find them I pass the info to other users.

gnoahhh,

I got the "comet tails" on my targets when I shot all those test loads. You think it is the lead tip melting? I don't recall seeing any "tracer" trails. I suspect something in the 23 to 24 gr. range and annealing the necks might be in order. I am seriously considering a Lightfoot mount as sending the J4 out for refurb is almost the same cost, plus I would be able to use a more modern scope for my aged eyes.

I suspect the loads may be a bit hot for this old gun. Only experimentation will tell. I'm just happy it makes round holes and not key holes and at least they were not to far from my aim (still could be me) and grouping within 2".

Ironsights charged $135 to rebuild the Malcolm.