Nothing I didn't know already, but interesting to see magazines pay attention to this chambering. Second article I have seen in the past half a year.

link?

No link. I get the rag in the mail.

Check page 14 also.. Article about the 1903 Savage 22.
Good article.

Steve

Don't know if is the article Sayak was talking about but I was able to find it on Shootingtimes.com.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_top_loads_for_the_300_savage_010610/

That one's from 2011, I'm guessing there's a new one.

Yes, Shooting Times, April 2015 edition, P. 22-25. The last mag article was mentioned before on this site; Handloader October 2014, P. 46. The ST may not be out on the newstands.

If you'll notice, in the article that Chappy410 found, the article offered some reloads for the Remington 722... a bolt-action rifle.

I'd sure be CAREFUL about using those loads for reloads in a Model 99.

Ron T.

What is considered a safe pressure for the 99?

47,000 PSI according to SAAMI.

And those loads in the 2011 article look perfectly fine for 99's, but naturally start at the minimum and work your way up.

Does SAAMI determine a particular firearms safe #?

243 and 308 run about 60K. How's that all play out in the 99 if it's rated for 47K?

Since the Savage 99 was chambered in it's later years in .308 and .358 it would be logical to assume the action is safe with pressures in the 55,000-60,000 psi range. However, why even wonder??

One doesn't shoot the Savage 99 because it is the strongest or "best" action for high pressure loading. It is a GREAT rifle as far as accuracy, handling and being chambered in useful rounds, but is definitely NOT the strongest action for high power loadings.

Use it as it was intended and do not try to "hot-rod" it.

Well stated

The cartridge brass can fail at far lower pressures than the rifle.

So go ahead and hotrod it, but don't complain about case head separations or blown primers.

I haven't seen any "official" SAAMI numbers using PSI.

I Googled the .300 Savage Cartridge and here's the net site address: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Savage

If you scroll down a ways, under PERFORMANCE, it sez: "Pressure level for the .300 Savage is set by SAAMI at 46,000 CUP.[8] The .308 Winchester operates at a higher pressure of 52,000 CUP, which is one of the basic reasons it outperforms the .300 Savage."


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

On the following document, scroll down until you find "300 Savage" and look in the first column under the heading "Pressure Limits (psi/100)". It will say "470", multiply by 100 to take it from hundredths and you get 47,000.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfR.pdf


I've never found anything listing a PSI spec for 250 Savage, but the 300 is done.

Actually, Rory (aka "Calhoun")...

My handloads "loaf-out" at a chronographed 2635 fps, so I doubt that they're reaching the SAAMI's "maximum chamber pressure" of 46,000 CUP... and those handloads do a good job on deer if I do my part.

But you showed me something I didn't know and didn't see... very interesting.

Thank you, my friend...

Ron

Not sure I'm tracking. If the Savage 99 is a weak 47K rifle, but the brass is 60-62K rated (243/308) why would the brass fail first? Stretching due to flex in the 99 action maybe??

The only failures I've had were the rifle, not the brass, when run at too high of pressure in a 99, in 270 Titus.

Also, there's a 50%? margin built in to the rifle as shown in proofing, correct?

Only found that pressure listing a few months back, and since it's only 2 years old it may be new. But every other SAAMI spec I've seen for the 300 Savage was in CUPS.

My handloads with 180gr Partitions for 300 Savage are what most folks would consider seriously anemic at around 2320fps iirc, but with a shooting lane of under 125 yards the deer just keep dropping.

The 250 Savage pressure range is probably in the same ballpark of 47,000 PSI, but pressures don't really mean much for shooting or reloading. Watching velocity with a chrony and keeping an eye on the cases is far more useful.

As a standard? Doubt the requirement is as high as 50%, but I'll bet the Savage 99 has at least that. How many 99's have ever been seen where the receiver or barrel has completely exploded? I think I recall three 99's with split barrels, but the split on all of them starts about halfway down from the receiver.


And from the 1900 catalog when they were doing 30-30 class rifles with a max PSI of 42,000:

"The steel used in the Savage rifle barrels is of the finest possible quality. Every batch, technically known as a "heat", is tested by the Government tester at Watertown Arsenal. The tensile strength averages 115,000 pounds to the square inch, and the elastic limit 75,000 pounds to the square inch. The steel is manufactured by the well-known firm of Spaulding & Jennings of Jersey City, N.J., who supply large quantities to the United States Government for rifle barrels."

Yeah, maybe half the 50% I'd heard. Wiki shows 25-30%, but I admit I didn't want to read the entire article-

Proof testing in C.I.P. regulated countries[edit]

German definitive smokeless powder proof marks (eagle over N figure) issued by the Beschussamt Ulm C.I.P. accredited Proof House (antlers figure) on a Walther PPS pistol.
In C.I.P. member states every civil firearm has to be professionally proofed in accredited Proof Houses before it can be sold to consumers.

The standard proof test consist of firing two overloaded cartridges that produce 25% more chamber pressure than the C.I.P. specified maximum pressure limit for the same cartridge in its commercial version. The standard proof of pistol, revolver and rimfire cartridges is performed with overloaded cartridges that produce 30% more chamber pressure than the C.I.P maximum pressure limit for the same cartridge in its commercial version. There are only two overloaded firings to avoid excessive stress to the arm, especially the barrel which is the main part suffering this overload beside the chamber (when not part of the barrel) and the locking mechanism. After the test, the arm is disassembled by the proof house technicians for nondestructive testing looking for Magnetic flux leakage through fluoroscopic lamp in a dark room. Many manufacturers, including Glock Ges.m.b.H., package the casings from a firearm's proof ammunition in a sealed envelope accompanying the firearm so that authorities in C.I.P.-signatory states and civilian purchasers in other countries can conduct an independent examination if they desire.[12]

Before the year 2006 the standard test consisted of firing two overloaded cartridges producing 30% more chamber pressure then the C.I.P. specified maximum chamber gas pressure limit for the same cartridge in its commercial version.

Voluntarily testing beyond the current legally required standard test benchmark is often also possible for consumers who intend the use their firearms under extreme conditions (hot climates, long strings of shots, etc.). In case a firearm passes such a proof-test a pass mark termed superior proof mark is stamped in every successfully tested firearm.

Its important for hand loaders to understand CUP and PSI measurements are like apples and oranges. Just reread one of my favorite authors clarifying this issue pertaining to pressure.Book states CUP and PSI are so different that their isn't a exact ratio between them, tho a fairly complex formula exists for approximate conversion between the two systems. Don't think they are interchangeable, they are not.

I wonder how the 1920 compares to the 99 in strength?

Being a two lug front locking bolt action (basically a Mauser clone), I'd say the 1920 is a much stronger action than the 99, being a rear locking action relying on the fit of the bolt's backside to the 99's frame. Maybe more akin to a Remington 700, or 722 of days gone by, or Savages 110 series of push feed actions. Keep in mind this is not taking in consideration any advances in metallurgy between the 1920s and today. Having said this, I should say that there would be absolutely no good reason to hot rod a 1920 or any of the cartridges it was chambered for.

Do you mean Waterveilt arsenal based in Waterveilt, NY? I live near the arsenal and quite a history from civil war and still today.

Just repeating what's in the catalog, it states Watertown. I presume it's this:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watertown_Arsenal

Look at one of the more recent Speer manuals, 11 or 12, I forget which.

They used a Savage 99 with a 20" barrel and held the pressures to 46K CUP.

They achieved very good velocities with RL-15 powder and 150-grain and 165-grain bullets, more than one would think possible with a 20" barrel and those pressures.