documentary Savage 99 - 24hourcampfire

Was watching a World War II documentary and there was a part where a British soldier was showing a group of British women how to load and cycle an 1899 takedown. I couldn't figure out how to link or save it at just that point so I'll need to go back and figure it out.

The gist of it was that the women were left behind and had to be taught how to defend their homes against the pending invasion of Britain. Interesting bit, I'll see if I can locate it.

You know, if I were defending Merry Olde England from the Hun invasion, I would prefer a 99 over a Lee-Enfield - but for the Enfield's capability of being reloaded with stripper clips.

Or on the other hand, the best of both worlds would be to share a foxhole with a 99 and a stripper.

Originally Posted by gnoahhh

You know, if I were defending Merry Olde England from the Hun invasion, I would prefer a 99 over a Lee-Enfield - but for the Enfield's capability of being reloaded with stripper clips.
Or on the other hand, the best of both worlds would be to share a foxhole with a 99 and a stripper.

Another advantage is that the Enfield is a bolt action, I have read that the reason lever actions did not find much popularity for military use is that the action is hard to cycle while in the prone position, or with the gun laying on the edge of a fox hole or trench. The old long lever Martini actions had to be a real problem in the prone position - you would have to load them sideways and from the opposite side the lever was on, but I think at that time the British still though you should stand in a line out in the open to fight, in which case the lever would not be a problem and many probably would not live long enough to reload anyway.

Having fired many rounds out of a foxhole, a lever action would be fine out of them or out of a trench.

And with practice, a lever action is perfectly functional from prone. A bolt action can allow you to hug the ground closer when you shoot prone, but that's not as helpful as often as you might think (hint: grass). Here's a video on a Winchester 1895 from prone, and it's got a longer lever throw.

Originally Posted by Calhoun

A bolt action can allow you to hug the ground closer when you shoot prone,

Yeah, but what about hugging the stripper?

[/quote] Yeah, but what about hugging the stripper?

[/quote]

I would think that the prone position would be a plus when laying with the stripper.

I think I'd take the Enfield in a combat situation. But don't forget that Savage made a boat load of Enfields for Britan during the war. If I really got my choice, then I'd take a Garand over everything else and leave the 99 for sport.

An old GF's father was in the Home Guard in London, 1940. (He was too old for active duty, and worked in the Hawker aircraft factory.) He described training with No.1Mk.III Enfields (he could still do the Manual of Arms and bayonet drill at age 83), but when they went on "maneuvers" down on the coast he was put on a crew that was armed with jerry-rigged pipe cannons that fired pop bottles filled with gasoline. I forget if they were powered by springs or rubber bands. The idea was to launch the molotov cocktails into German landing craft. He said accuracy and range wasn't the best...

Originally Posted by S99VG

I'd take a Garand

As I was reading this thread I was thinking exactly the same thing.

You said it first though...

Edit: And if it were WW l: I'd take the 03-a3

To me the big issue in using a 99 Savage or a 95 Winchester is not if you could fire if from the prone position, but it is how in the world would you keep it clean and operating in the mud and muck of the western or eastern fronts. I defy anyone to take his 99 and pack it full of mud and then field strip, clean and get it reassembled before next morning's chow call, let alone in the stress of war. Levers are great guns but the shear simplicity and effectiveness of bolts were designed for the battleground.

Quick clean is simply pull the buttstock, run water through the action to wash gunk out, dry and lightly lube. Now if you PACK the action full of sand or grease you're in for some work, would need to get hold of some boiling water.

Worst part is you'd have to carry a gosh awfully long screwdriver with ya to remove the buttstock.

Or just urinate in it. Heck, for that matter that's how I routinely clean them. Doesn't everybody? Huh? Huh?

You're on a roll today Gary.

All kidding aside, I can't imagine living there right after Dunkirk- with the Army knocked off their pegs and the only thing standing between me and the German Army being a battered RAF and the Royal Navy which was strung out to hellandgone. It must have been hard to maintain a cheerful disposition during those dark days.

Thank god that Goering managed to convince Hitler he could bring England to her knees solely through the use of air power, otherwise it would've been all she wrote. Those two were our worst enemy and their own at the same time.

By WWII the British had killed their arms industry and had to go to Savage and other U.S. arms producers to arm their military. Savage produced over 1,000,000 Lee Enfield rifles in the Chicopee Falls plant under Lend-Lease.
The British also contracted with Savage through the Auto Ordnance Company to produce Thompson sub machineguns in 1939. These were produced at the Utica plant and maybe as many as 1.5 million were produced throughout the war. Not all of them would have gone to the British.
After the war was over Savage closed the Utica plant and moved Savage production into this plant. Pages 82-83 in my book. David

Tommy Gun: How General Thompson's Submachine Gun Wrote History

Quote

How many tommy guns were made? The exact number will probably never be known because Auto-Ordnance records, such as still exist, are incomplete. History of Submachine Guns, 1921 Through 1945 lists the total of all Thompsons ever built at around 1.75 million, of which 71.4 percent were manufactured by Savage Arms in Utica. This approximate total includes the Ordnance Department tally of 1.497 million, plus around 40 M1919s, plus the 15,000 units manufactured in 1921, plus the 107,500 the Britain ordered in 1940. The remaining 130,000 would have included guns accounted for by British and French purchase orders that were filled after the last of the original 15,000 were shipped, but before Lend-Lease.

71.4% of 1.75 million guns would mean that Savage Arms made 1,249,500 Thompsons during WW2.

I'd still rather take my chances with the stripper than a tommy gun.