I just found a very nice, original pre-mil 99F in .308 Win in the mid $500 range. No sling swivels, no compass, no pad, and ~90-95% wood and metal. It seems like a very fair deal.

On first glance, I did not notice any major cracks or splits in the wood. Today, I took my glasses off and inspected a little closer with my poor old presbyopic eyes. Much to my dismay, I found two little cracks near the middle of the tang, one above and one below. They are hairline in size and look to be no longer than 1/4", 3/8" at the most.

I have a few questions. Are there very many 99F's out there that have been hunted with and used that don't have these cracks? I had a 99F fixer-upper .243 that had had the stock repaired for some major cracks/splits in the wrist of the stock... when I took the stock off, I was shocked at how "un-substantial" the stock was in that particular area. In my mind, it is not surprising at all that they crack in these areas due to recoil and moisture issues.

Would this be a red flag to others as to purchasing this gun or would you just try to do some discreet non-visible repairs with a dremel/epoxy to shore up the problem? This will not be my go-to rifle but I would like to be able to shoot it a little bit here and there!

Thanks!
Lundtroller

They probably won't get any better on their own. Perhaps now is the time to nip them in the bud with some discrete repairs as you mentioned. At the same time I would give a skosh of extra clearance at the back of the tang- make the relief below the visible surface of the wood leaving a RCH of wood on the surface to give the illusion of a tight fit.

I remain convinced that these cracks develop mainly from over tightening the draw bolt. Snug is good. Really torquing it down like your life depended on it is bad. Over tightening the bolt is akin to setting a chunk of firewood on Loggah's hydraulic splitter- those two wedges (tangs) are in effect constantly trying to turn the butt stock into kindling.

For a shooter gun with little collector interest, I would epoxy bed the whole shebang so as to spread the load over as much area as possible. I say that reluctantly though, for what is merely a shooter today may well be a rare gem 100 years from now.

Next question: Is $530 a fair price for this 99F in .308 or would the tiny tang cracks scare you away? Looking at the screws on this rifle, I don't believe the stock has ever been off this rifle.

Honest opinions appreciated!

They had a 98% scoped, cut checkered early 99DL in .243 for $600 as well as a 90+% press checkered 99DL in .243 for $400. All were nice and each tempted me but the pre-mil would be my first choice.

Strikes me as being eminently fair.

Regarding tang cracks, most of the 99s that have gone through my hands had them. I'm talking 10-12 rifles. The only one that isn't cracked is my 1955 vintage 99 F in 250-3000. I'm guessing there's not enough recoil to crack the wood.

My buddy has two 99s, a 99 R(possibly RS)in 300 Savage he bought used when he got out of the army in 1963 (he's 81), and his uncle's 99F 308. The R gun is a 1950 vintage piece, and it had a pretty good crack. It isn't a collector gun as it has been drilled and tapped and had a recoil pad added (badly), so epoxy wasn't a spoiler. I like to bed the upper tang, lower tang, and the two side pieces. The other rifle, which his late uncle left to him, also was cracked. When I removed the buttstock I found that one of the little "fingers" which fit into the side of the receiver were broken off. The wood is of poor quality and actually broke off. I made a piece to replace the missing piece and again bedded all four places where the wood meets the receiver. Of course, the receiver was full of sticks, dirt, etc. and I cleaned it thoroughly.

[quote=lundtroller

They had a 98% scoped, cut checkered early 99DL in .243 [/quote]

Let me know if you don't buy that! I would.

$530.00 would not scare me away if I was looking for one like the one you are considering.



When I epoxy bed a 99 buttstock, I try to direct most, if not all, of the recoil forces at the wood directly behind the bottom tang.

The wood behind the top tang and the wood that comprise the stock cheeks is thin by unfortunate design so is evidently prone to crack. I try to leave hairline gaps where the metal meets the wood at those interfaces.

I've heard stories of "unfired" 99s having tang cracks. No, not necessarily a deal breaker. On all my 99s, or 1899s I generally take a deep well socket which is 0.050 smaller than tang radius and wrap with 100 grain sand papaer and GENTLY rotate to create 0.005-0.0010 tho clearance from tang to wood. This area should not be weight bearing during firing. And, as prolly previously stated, DON'T over tighten butt stock retaining screw.

By the way, I have a couple with tang cracks that have been dealt with, and do not effect accuracy or have propagated.

^^^^ This.

I also coat the non-load bearing surfaces with un-thickened epoxy. Depending how much clearance the bolt has in its rear-most position some epoxy removal in the LH cheek is probably then necessary. Every little bit of epoxy helps.

I'll reiterate a past sentiment- all this is for an otherwise buggered up rat or a new stock on a shooter.. A "collectible" piece doesn't deserve such drastic treatment, nor a nice surviving "shooter", IMO- but everybody here knows that.

I have just bought a 1950 .300 99.
If it had had a box through it I would be surprised, no crack..condition almost new, two faint marks on left receiver(not scratches) and one line in stock,depression, everything else almost as new, shiny brass mag, bright as if just made, no drilling for mounts, never even had sling screws fitted.
I wonder what percentage of them develop one, almost a bit worried about firing the damn thing now, I will always be looking.

Welcome to the site. I wouldn't worry too much about a 300. When you figure it out post some pics, there were 3 models in 1950, an EG, an F and an R. Oops, there were only 2 models in 1950, the F didn't come out till 55, Joe.

Hi, thanks, am using a phone this second so cant quite upload any pics, should be back on a proper computer later or tomorrow, thanks again!

Post war Rs were factory drilled and tapped for scopes so it's likely an EG.

I knew when I read "98% hand checkered DL" that Roy would have a post below asking about it. lol

I begged. No good.

Too bad.

A 98% DL with hand checkering in 243 for $600 is an awesome price in my opinion.

I'd rather deal with a tang crack than plumbers crack. I don't think there's enough epoxy in the world to fix the latter!

Ah, he crack's me up!

I think you are just cracked!

Hi, I cannot quite get the hang of the photobucket link.

http://s740.photobucket.com/user/gduk1/library/Savage99?sort=3&page=1

Wow, now THAT has condition. Very nice. It's a 99EG.

Yes, that is in nice condition and I would not worry about shooting it, unless you're concerned about taking the shiny new edge out of the barrel. Just kidding on the last part.

Regarding the tang cracks on Savage 99's, it is my opinion that these are more from side to side pressure when transporting, than they are from recoil. For that reason I am extremely careful when transporting my 99's and never allow them to receive any sideways pressure.

Let me know if you don't buy that! I would. [/quote]



Ditto, need that one for all DL cals

Thanks, an EG, just starting to understand the models and variations, would have preferred a rarer calibre, but happy all the same, need a (non drill) scope mount added and actually test the thing!
Glad it is just the handle that is case hardened, not normally my thing..
First handled one over 35 years ago, glad I now have one.
Interesting views on the cracks, will take it all on board.

Best non-drill mount is from Lightfoot. If you don't know about them or him, he is on this forum.

Your mount should be in the mail by Saturday.

That sure is a beauty!!

One in the post, they look great cant wait!

On the subject of the stock cracks I cannot still get my head around the issue.
Not only am I very very new to the 99, only had mine a few weeks (although first fired one over 30 years ago)
I am new to this Forum, so expect a bit of flak coming my way for this...eek.
But it really is the most bizarre thing I have heard, commercial suicide, and the worst reputation in the gun industry, pumping out guns for nearly a hundred years with a huge design fault/flaw, Savage would be a laughing stock.
A bit like a car manufacturer selling cars where 70 odd percent of the front windshields bust out...but still sell them, never modify the design, not only would it cost you a fortune in rectifying the issue your reputation would be in shreds too.
Is there any 'from new' 99 owners here?
My guess is the from new guns probably never cracked for years and years, but wood loses moisture over time.
Premium manufactures, as we all now, age wood 10,12 years or more but on a more modest price gun, no way, not on this or anything else in this price bracket.
Ageing the wood for so long means the wood has settled down, should hold that residual state for the future, something a 99 would not have the luxury of.
I had an old Winchester 1887, made in 88, great gun, wood was almost proud in areas of grain, almost dehydrated in its look.
Would a drink of organic, plant origin oil, such as boiled linseed oil cure the problem, it has certainly been used on gun stock for many years.
The 99 is such a well engineered gun maybe it literally lasts too long, well, too long for the wood design, we are using them 50,60 or 70 years later, that poor dry wood, yes a bad design, the new guns had fresh non aged wood, certainly not long enough if it was, probably worked just fine for a while, years, again any from new owners here to say when their cracks appear, excuse the pun...
Every other 99 we pick up, everyone looks there first, crazy situation.
It is like making a fire, you stamp on wood, the old stuff almost shatters, no moisture, the wood is very weak, but if we try on a new storm fall piece, we almost bounce off it, the moisture in the wood is retaining the woods structure and more importantly strength, and it is certainly resilient to breaking/cracking.

I think you need to keep in mind that not all 99s exhibit cracks so we need to make sure that 10% of the pie does not seems like 90% of the pie simply because it is talked about all of the time. Also, keep in mind that some of these 99s are very old and even 99s made in the 50s (the last of the glory years) are nearing 70, give or take. And by any measure that is old (present company withstanding). The point has also been made on this forum that some of the cracks could have been caused by years of oil soaking into the wood. I personally feel that some cracks can be attributed to guys who just could not resist taking their rifles apart for no better reason than they could (a particular form of OCD that can have negative affects on any mechanical device). But then again, the vast majority of 99s are just plain old and have been exposed to a number of things beyond the effects of time itself.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Look at the top and bottom tang and note they are tapered. Try over-torquing the butt screw and imagine those two wedges doing their best to split that piece of kindling in two. Add ham-handedness on the part of Old Uncle Leo twisting and yanking it from side to side as he tried to remove it and you'll see how the bear's share of cracks got generated. I doubt that recoil had much effect on generating cracks but I guess it could too, especially in the hard kickers like .358 and .308's- but that wouldn't explain the cracks in the light recoil .22HP's, .25-35, et al. Just torque the screw until it's snug and stop- you're not torquing the head on a 12 cylinder Jaguar.

I'm loathe to recommend epoxy bedding of time-honored old stocks for aesthetic/collector reasons, but I have on otherwise Bubba'ed stocks and/or newly made replacement stocks.

Was it a poor design on Savage's part? To a degree, but with the layout of the trigger and cocking mechanism, the two tangs are necessary, not to mention how clumsy looking the guns would be if the tangs were given parallel sides.

Savage got the gun right, as we all know. It's advantages far outweigh it's foibles.

Don't underestimate how many folks smack the buttstock of their rifle on the ground either. Or drop them.

Or put sideways pressure on them, especially when transporting them in soft cases in overpacked cars. Unlike most here, I don't think for a second tang cracks come from straight-back pressure. Look at the gun. Bad design on the cheeks and tang. Sideways pressure is what cracks them. If it was recoil, the heavier guns would crack more often than the 22 hi powers, 303's and 250's, but that is not the case. They all crack the same.

the side pressure gets my vote as cause of the cracks. i have a 55 F in 250-3000 that never had a crack until i had to evacuate last year's forest fire. even in a soft case somehow it got pressed and cracked. very fine crack but there.