Anyone tried Hornady 70gr .227 bullets in 22 Savage?

I saw hornady makes a .227 bullet and was wandering if anyone has tried it in the hi power.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>I saw hornady makes a .227 bullet and was wandering if anyone has tried it in the hi power.<hr></blockquote>
 Since this bullet was designed specifically for the Hi Power, and no others, why wouldn't it work? I believe that this is the same bullet used by Norma in their 5.6 x 52R loads.

Some time ago, Ken Waters did an article on the .22 Hi-Power. He found that the Hornady 70 grain .227" bullets did not stabilize in his rifle. He did have good accuracy with the Speer 70 grain .224" bullets, also with the Speer .227" bullet which is no longer made.
 Hornady may have redesigned the .227" bullet since the article was done.
 The Ken Waters article can be found in his "Pet Loads" publication.
 I shoot 64 grain Winchester Power Points in my .22 Hi-Powers and get good accuracy.

Ken Waters may be a helluva writer, but a few of the things he's come up with over the past few years are making me question his judgment (case forming for the .25 Remington among them).

Thanks, I was thinking it was .228 diameter but didn't know for sure.

I've got 5 boxes of norma 70 gn 22 HP factory cartridges (stole it) and an older box of the 70gn .227 hornady slugs and they do not appear to be the same. Maybe later norma or hornady slugs are different.
 
 The hornady is a more slender longer bullet where the norma is shorter and stubby. I have not loaded up any of the hornadys so I don't know how they shoot.
 
 I have to get a set of dies first, any recommendations, I know one thing I don't want to use a 22-250 die and neck size once fired brass as some one suggested on another board. This causes the necks to split when seating the 227 bullet, I've seen a box of once fired brass ruined trying this approach.
 
 Anybody know where to get norma slugs for reloading.
 
 One of my 22 HPs is all original with the exception of being D & T by some bonehead before me but the price was right so I bought it and put a leupold m8-4x on it but have not made it to the range to try the norma or any reloads yet, we will see just how accurate this 22 HP can be, soon.
 
 As a side note, the barrels on both of my HPs are not the shineyest/brighest inside but the riflings are very strong. I have seen many HPs that had shiny bores but the rifling was basically gone. I prefer strong rifling to a shiny bore as long as the bore is good and can be cleaned up. It's hard to make a barrel with little or no rifling shoot, so if your looking for a HP this is just something else to look for if you are going to shoot it.
 
 Anybody shoot 5.6 x 52R S & B ammo, what diameter (224 or 227) are the slugs in their 22 HP cartridges?
 
 I also picked up some once fired REM-UMC 250 HP cases from a guy a while back, never seen that before. Also got some 25-35 WW cases from him, anybody resize 25-35 to 22 HP, if so how well does it work?
 
 TX

I tried resizing some .30-30 into 22HP. Didn't work too good. I kept getting wrinkles on the shoulder area.
 I'll sell you my 22HP dies. They are RCBS and almost new. Make me an offer?

For brass I use Winchester .25-35 cases. A little Imperial Sizing lube and then into a Redding .22 Hi-Power sizing die. The trick, to reduce case loss, is to go slowly into the .22 Hi-Power die, back the case out of the die, then into it again, repeat until the .22 Hi-Power case is formed.

Yes I have. I had very good results with the Hornady 70 grain .227 bullits in my handloads. They shoot as well or better than the Norma 5.6X52R. I have had very good accuracy but don't have access to my reloading book at the moment. Email me latter and I will give details. MJanusch@peoplepc.com

Tx,
 www.grafs.com sells Norma bullets. I didn't see the .22 listed, but it may not hurt to ask them.
 
 Jeff

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>I didn't see the .22 listed, but it may not hurt to ask them.<hr></blockquote>
 Uh, gee, jeff. Norma doesn't make any 0.227" caliber bullets, so what point would it serve to ask Graf's? In fact, if you'd looked at Norma's website you'd have seen that. Follow your own admonishment, jeff, and post the facts.

wow I can't believe I am agreeing with Elvis.. ah Robert on this. Ken Waters last article on the 300 in reloader mag. ...sucked. he didn't use the best bullets on the market for the 300 ,because they are too long??? Bullpoopy, Nosler BT, and Hornady SST 150s are the ONLY bullets to use.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>I tried resizing some .30-30 into 22HP. Didn't work too good. I kept getting wrinkles on the shoulder area.<hr></blockquote>The cases have to be necked down in stages to avoid this.
 <blockquote>In reply to:<hr>wow I can't believe I am agreeing with Elvis.. ah Robert on this. Ken Waters last article on the 300 in reloader mag. ...sucked. he didn't use the best bullets on the market for the 300 ,because they are too long??? Bullpoopy, Nosler BT, and Hornady SST 150s are the ONLY bullets to use.<hr></blockquote>
 I began to start wondering about Ken Waters' judgment when I started reloading for the .25 Remington a few years ago. Waters recommends simply running .30 Remington brass through a .25 Remington sizing die. More often than not cases end up with collapsed or wrinkled shoulders and necks. When I started researching it, other writers and reloading manufacturers advised me to size it in stages. Redding (and RCBS) make intermediate sizing dies for the purpose of forming cases. I would expect the same thing would have to be done with .22 Hi-Power cases.

Birddog65,
 
 Could you cite the specific issue number of Handloader that you are discussing Ken's errors/failure in so that I could read it for myself?
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Bearrr264
 
 PS I kinda like the 170 grain Remington RNCL 30-30 bullets in the 300 Savage. Light jacket + rapid expansion = venison!

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>Could you cite the specific issue number of Handloader that you are discussing Ken's errors/failure in so that I could read it for myself?<hr></blockquote>
 My Handloader collection only goes back to 1996, but in #187, Waters has a blurb about getting good accuracy out of his .22 Hi-Power with .224 caliber projectiles driven to near maximum velocity. He mentions the 0.227" slugs as being proper. In Handloader #181, Gil Sengel has a nice write up on the Hi-Power in "Cartridge Board."

Bear give me a couple days to tear the house apart looking for it, or maybe somebody(Robert) would jump in and save me the trouble. I know it was sometime in 2001 cause everyone on G&N was talking about it. Anyhow, he specifically stated that he was picking the shorter type bullets cause of powder volume, and he wasn't even loading the max AOL of 2.60, actually I can load to 2.608- 2.610 with no problems in my rifles, just make sure you know how to check for your guns limits, by making sure that bullet does not touch the rifleing when loaded past the 2.600 limit. Also ,if you go too far,the rotory mag will jam and you won't be able to eject unfired rounds.Mark.

Bear, you are not realizing the full potential of the wonderful 300. Those round nose bullets would be great if you would never get a chance at a long shot, but ,man that 300 is good for 300 with the right bullet. Try a box of Hornady SST 150s, they are unbelievably accurate and still tears um up.Just for the naysayers, a 300 savage loaded with 150 SST and and a muzzle velocity of 2600 -2700 fps has the same energy and velocity at 300yds. as a 30-30 does at 100yds.Just an FYI. Mark

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>Bear give me a couple days to tear the house apart looking for it, or maybe somebody(Robert) would jump in and save me the trouble.<hr></blockquote>
 You'll have to wait until tomorrow when I'm back home.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>I know it was sometime in 2001 cause everyone on G&N was talking about it.<hr></blockquote>
 It wasn't in 2001 or in any of my meager collection of Handloader issues back to 1996. I can only find two small mentions by Waters: in #187 about .227 caliber bullets being proper (he says he likes 0.224" 63 grain Sierras at maximum velocity) and in #201 about the need for more .227 caliber bullets.
 
 In that lame lever action special that Wolfe sent out a couple of years ago, there's one brief mention of the .22 Hi-Power by Layne Simpson.
 
 It must be in an older issue.

Robert,
 
 I think that I recall a Layne Simpson article on the 22HP in a large soft cover book on varmint cartridges which might have been a Wolfe publication too. I recall seeing his Model 1899F with a Lyman peep sight along side a couple of dead woodchucks.
 
 Simpson, along with John Barsness and Wayne Von Zwoll, are the only current "name" gunwriters who acknowledge liking Savage Models 99 and 1920 enough to cite them in their bodies of work. Although Simpson's work often seems rather superficial to me, he is a known name and a friend of the Models 99 and 1920. You might recall a fellow by the name of Clay Harvey who wrote some articles and books during the 1980s and early 1990s. His work was very pro-Models 99 and pro-250/3000, but I haven't seen him in print for several years. Do you know what happened to him?
 
 Thank you for your research assistance on this issue.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Bearrr264

Another information source would be the NRA. The Dec 1949 issue of the American Rifleman had a very good article with loading recommendation for different bullit weights, powders and safety notes for lever action savage and bolt actions for some of the hotter higher pressure rounds tested. I could fax if you are not an NRA member and really need to know. I don't have a scanner so I cannot post on the site.

300Savage,
 
 Does the NRA have back issues of American Rifleman/Hunter in an electronic format that NRA members can access via the net? I was 2 in 1949 and hadn't bought my life membership yet, so I don't have that issue in my library.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Bearrr264

Bearrr264,
 
 I was 1 1/2 and I have a copy in my library. You must have had a sheltered youth. [Linked Image]

Rick....

I know they have an 800 number for their library. I have had copies of articles mailed to me. It used to be free but I believe they have a nominal charge for members. I could fax you the article. PS: I was also two in 1949, but came across this in the magazine rack of my gun club. Someone was cleaning out their basement. This same issue had an article on a buffalo Hunt. Interesting photo show the only buffalo that droped in its tracks with one shot was taken with a Savage 99 in what else but a 300 Savage! Elmer Keith needed more than one round from his .45-120-566 Sharps Buffalo rifle.

Robert,
 
 I stopped at Hornady, after I went to Swed's and Diesbachs', when I was in Grand Island to check your information. They claim that they don't sell .227 bullet to Norma.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Bearrr264

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>They claim that they don't sell .227 bullet to Norma.<hr></blockquote>
 Notice that I prefaced my statement with "I believe." I've never used Norma components enough to know for sure. However, I do know that these are NOT available from Norma as component bullets and, according to the Norma literature I have (which dates back to 1972), they never have.

Robert,
 
 I know that you prefaced your comment with "I believe". I didn't say that you were wrong. I said that I checked your information, that you believed that Hornady supplied Norma with those projectiles, and Hornady says that they have not and do not.
 
 I'm not being disrespectful of you or your knowledge. Quite the opposite, I am quite impressed by the depth and breadth of your knowledge. I know that I can learn a lot from you. On the other side of the same coin, you can learn a thing or two from me, if you keep an open mind that is.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Bearrr264
 
 PS Hornady also told me that they do make some projectiles for Remington, at Remington's specifications, so your dialog with someone about that issue on a different thread was correct. You won't see me taking a cheap shot at anyone, I just call 'em as they are!

Tex, I'm probably a gettin in on the hind end a this discussion but I have a tiny bit of experience with the S&B 5.6x52R factory load.
 #1:Out of 2 different 1899H's,both TD FWT's, one would'nt shoot this load worth a hoot, the other rifle(Just got it back from the gunsmith, see my post from the 25th if interested)shoots this load as good or better than the Norma factory load.
 Go figure. Both rifles have a bore dia. of .227. I personally miked em.One was born in 1916(tha one that don't like the S&B)and the tother was born in 1914 (I think).
 #2: I also miked the bullets from said S&B loading and bear in mind, I'm no machinist,but I came up with a bullet dia.
 of .221 or so average from 10 different loaded rounds.
 If you bother to convert from metric to inches, .221 or so is actually 5.6mm.Kind a confusin ta this old country boy.
 The Norma factory load bullet miked right at .227.
 Now, why the S&B load will shoot in one rifle and not the other(when the bores both mike the same)is a mystery to me.Ya can take a loaded round(S&B) an insert tha bullet in the muzzle end a both rifles and it will "rattle" round in both of em.
 Maybe some of ya gents with a tad more expertise er knowhow can explain it.
 I do know one thang tho, at a cost a 9.50 per box(S&B)
 versus 28.00(Norma),I'll be a feedin my customized 22HP the S&B load cuz I don't handload no more.Yer ol cuz may be a tad dumb, but I ain't ignorant.
 Later, Yer ol Cuz Mitch.

I've had the same experience....have two .22 HPs and one of them will shoot the S & B OK and the other one doesn't. The one that doesn't is an 1899H dob 1918 I think and the other one is a 99F dob 1938. The F does fine. Never checked the bores for size.
 
 Elwood