I'm looking for a good, starter sharpening stone or sharpening system for a new guy to REAL sharpening. My dad showed me how to use a small whetstone years ago but I never could get an edge worth a darn and after seeing how knives are REALLY sharpened...I see he had kind of been doing it wrong. So whatever you guys suggest, needs to be fairly user friendly to learning from the beginning.

I've looked at the Lansky website and someone mentioned the Spyderco Triangle Sharpmaker.

My fiance's dad told her how much he wants to spend on me for Christmas this year and I'm thinking a sharpening setup would be a great gift. Looking in the range of $30-50. The Lansky's can be had for that range, the Deluxe kits. The Spyderco can be also purchased for that amount on eBay.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions.

I use an old Norton oil bath three stone set up. Never could get used to the new high tech stuff.

Something like this?


Three Stone Sharpening kit

Google "Norton Three Stone Oil Bath Sharpening Stones"

not that cheap imitation stuff.

Lansky.

I've had really good luck with the Sharpmaker

Wow, that Norton 3 stone set (if its the one I found) is like $200!!

I may be in the market for one of those later down the road but right now I'm looking in the $40-50 range. The Lansky Deluxe and the Spyderco Sharpmaker are looking really nice for that price.

Lansky. Trust me. Lansky.

The Lansky just flat kicks ass, once you learn how to use it. And that, ain't that hard.

I looked at the Maxx stone set. In my opinion, those Arkansas stones are about useless for the harder knife steels.

I would go with the Lansky. Smith also makes a sharpener with an angle guide, using diamond for the abrasive. I looked at them at Lowes a few minutes ago and they were $24.95.

If you are looking for a large stone, I would go with diamond grit for the hard steels.

Thanks fellas. I'm just looking for a good starter setup to get me goin' and put a nice edge on the knives I currently own as well as the ones I'm going to start making soon. (Kit knives to start with).

Considering how rarely numbers and I agree (and when we do, it's normally on knives), think about this. You could (and likely would) do far worse.

Thanks. Would the Deluxe kit be the one to go with? There are several to choose from standard, deluxe, professional(I think, or its commercial), and even one with Arkansas stones.

Standard will get you there. Deluxe is neat, but the extra coarse is a bit overkill, and the ultra-fine (for field knives) seems to be gilding a lily. The Professional, is just one more redundant stone.

FWIW, I have the Deluxe, and could EASILY get by with just the Standard.

Thanks again, I'll double check the pricing between the two and see what her dad wants to do.

Just get the Standard. If you want/need more later (and you won't), get the optional hones.

Cool, thanks again.

"Considering how rarely numbers and I agree (and when we do, it's normally on knives), think about this. You could (and likely would) do far worse."

As of 2 weeks ago, most of the stress I was under has gone away.

I always liked the Gatco hones and jig combo better than the Lansky. The hones seem to be better quality and are wider. The attachment rods aren't ever in the way of the hones or blades and don't break as sometimes happens with the plastic area of the Lansky. A tip if you've never used a clamping jig set-up like the Gatco/Lansky, if you care about how the knife looks place a strip of masking tape on the spine of the blade where the clamp is going on so as not to mar the blade. Honestly except for reprofiling damaged edges, I prefer the Sharpmaker.

Thanks for the tip and your suggestion as well.

That (and I won't ask publicly how or why) is fine news. A reduction in stress level is never a bad thing.

One other question...are any of the accessories for these kits any good? Namely the Universal Mount or the Super C Clamp Mount. The Super C Clamp mount seems like it would be quite a benefit to the kit.

Also, I just looked up the Gatco sharpener mentioned earlier. What do you other guys think about it compared to the Lansky?

That stress thing must be contagious. I just went through the same thing and said/did some really stupid things. I too am past it, but not sure of the damage control efforts yet.
Tim

MRK:

Unfortunately, in a lot of situations, the damage cannot be either controled or taken back.

The good news is that you are over and done with it, and the others, if they can't forget and forgive, then that is their problem, not yours or mine.

There is an old saying about someone who passes judgment, let them walk a mile in my shoes.

I feel much better about it, and that is what is important to me.

Funny thing, for the past 16 months, I thought about it every single day, and sometimes all day or several times a day.

Now, if I want to think about it, I have to put some effort into it. Now, it is like a vague memory of something that happened in the distant past.

1234567
This last issue was just current stuff and I can now live with it. Just wish I hadn't gone out of control when I did. Nothing like the 10 years it took to get past VietNam.

Back to the topic of the thread.
The discussions here are great medicine. A Sharpener System is one of my current dilemmas also. I still love my bench stones, but customer expectation keeps getting more and more demanding -- and a fixture system is pretty tough to beat by hand.

Someone here once offered to send me his Edge Pro system to try out----wish I had taken him up on that.
My nephew has a Lansky and does a fabulous job with it----but then I can't be doing the same thing as he is, now can I.

I think that one of the problems with sharpness and new knives is that the customer will not usually be sharpening the same as the maker did. Until the user gets the cutting edge in sync with his system, he will probably be dissatisfied with the resharpened edge. When the steels and heat treat was such that an Arkansas stone and some spit was all that was needed almost anyone could be happy with their sharpening job. The high performance blades require better stones and methods.
JMHO.

Tim

I somehow missed this thread until after posting my suggestion on the waterstone thread. Anyway, my STRONG recommendation would be the Edge Pro Apex. Pricey, but well worth it IMO.

http://www.edgeproinc.com

222Rem, thanks and I have considered that sharpener for a future purchase. The system I want needs to be under the $50 mark since it is a gift from my fiance's dad.

Probably wind up getting the Lansky since there are more hones available for it compared to the Gatco. However, I wonder if a Gatco hone will work with the holding device made by Lansky? They both look the same except for the fact the Gatco has different degree settings than the Lansky.

I've got a couple buddys who love their Lansky systems. I can't remember the subtle differences between the Lansky and Gatco, but if you can find a stores that carries them, I'd suggest comparing the two. I did that a few years back, and if memory serves, I liked something about the Gatco better. Larger stones maybe? Guys seem to love 'em both, so I doubt you'd go wrong with either one.

Another vote for either one of the Edge Pro Systems.....blows any other system completely out of the water and I own most of them. I have both of their models and they are COMPLETELY fool proof.

Craig,
The Gatco and Lansky will not interchange.

I dunno ...

But, for me, I have found that often when my knives become dull, I don't NEED the 'sharpening stones' to restore the edge.

If the blade isn't damaged, I dont need to REMOVE the blades metal by grinding away on the blades edge. Under a microscope a sharp knife's edge shows a uniform row of small aligned "teeth". When the blade becomes dull, these teeth are bent over and only need to be realigned, with a Knife Sharpening "Steel".

I'll first hold the knife upside down and Back-Steel the edge on both sides, which straightens the teeth upright.

Then, holding the knife in the normal position, I will then sharpen or "align" the edge with a pyramid system of down strokes, (4 on one side then 4 on the other side - then alternately 3 on each side, 2 ... 1 ... 0), That restores a perfect edge, and my blade is perfectly sharp. With just a "Steel".

If I feel I DO need something more 'abrasive', I just use Ceramic-Crock Cross Sticks, also in a decending number of pyramiding down-strokes alternately on each side.

The cross-sticks hold a fixed angle, and if I need to change that angle I just turn the knife blade closer to the stick on each downstroke, instead of straight up and down.

The ceramic sticks last forever, but can become less effective when blackened by metal residue, but will clean as new with Ajax and those green synthetic scouring pads.

I know I am NO knife sharpening expert ... and some friends who ARE, hate those "Damn worthless ceramic things" ...

But, a good Steel and My Ceramic Sticks have served me well for decades. I have borrowed a fillet knife or a hunting knife to a friend when necessary, and apologised for the blade probably being 'dull'.

Their response was, "What are you talking about, This blade is NOT dull, It's perfect ... YOU didn't sharpen this knife yourself ... Did you?"

i use the edgemaker sharpeners . if you start out useing one of these and use nothing but it and don't nick your blade up trying to cut bone your knife will last forever. they work great on regular blades ,serarated blades and even scissors. i've owned one for 20 yrs or so.

there on sale http://www.knivesplus.com/EDGEMAKER.HTML

My 14 yr old boy mastered a Lansky he got last Xmas. I've used it and works like a charm.

The lansky is nice but the stones are very narrow and aren't very long. This thread renewed my interest in replacing my Lansky with a Gatco or DMT system that uses bigger stones. It isn't a big deal when sharpening a 3" blade but when you are doing a larger knife and you have to reposition the clamp for every 3" of blade you want to sharpen with each stone it can take a long time with the small Lansky stones.

I went ahead and ordered the basic Gatco 3 stone set and added the extra and ultra fine stones for it. The Edgemaker looked like a nice easy method for doing for my kitchen knives so I got one of those too. I'll probably give my deluxe lansky set to my roommate.

I used to use my buddy's Lansky it worked extremely well. I own the Gatco because I bought into the hype that the Gatco stones being bigger would be better. they're not. It's not that the Gatco doesn't work, it does produce a nice sharp edge but the Lansky will produce a razor sharp edge. I should mention that I've never tried either with the diamond hones.

What grit size did you go down to on the Gatco? It doesn't come with as fine of stones as the Lansky. The Fine of the Gatco is only 300 grit wheras the fine of the Lansky is 600 grit. To match the fine of the Lansky you need to use Gatco's optional extra fine. To match the 1000 grit ultra fine of the Lansky you have to use the 1200 grit ultra fine from Galco. The Galco just doesn't come with the finer grits in their kits. Theoretically you should be able to get a sharper edge with the Galco ultra fine because it is 1200 vs 1000 grit. However, Lansky does have the option sapphire 2000 grit hone.

The Lansky will be cheaper to get a full kit down to 1000grit though. Their Deluxe kit runs like $37 online. I just paid $48 for the basic Gatco with the 2 finer stones added to match the Deluxe Lansky in grit. Obviously I suspect that the larger stones are worth it or I wouldn't have just bought it when I already have the Lansky. I'll try to remember to update this thread when I get it with a comparison.

sharpmaker

I've only used the Lansky system, so I have no idear how they rate against the other systems. I don't know how I went so many years without Lansky. I have the basic 3 stone system. I wouldn't mind an additional extra course for the first sharpening. That one change from the factory angle is always the hard one.

Drew, I've had the Gatco for about 7 years but just recently (over this past summer) added the extra fine and the ultra fine hone. I suspect you're on to something;My friends Lansky may have had the 2000 grit hone, I'll try to remember to ask, next time I see him.
I've never tried them side by side and I'm interested to hear your comparison.

I have a Gatco, dad and bro in law have Lansky's. The only real difference I see is the size of the stones.

Functionally speaking, they both work the same, and with equivalent stones should produce the same edge. Or am I missing something?

I have almost every sharpening gidget and gadget made.

The major functional differences in the units I have, unless something has changed, are:

The Lansky has 4 angles, 17 the lowest, while the Gatco has six, 15 the lowest.

The Lansky stones are adjustable on the guide rod, which if you know what you're doing you can adjust for consistent angles as the stones wear.

Of the two I like the Lansky, but the DMT Aligner is superior to both IME... and the Sharpmaker beats them all.

Well, as I posted in a separate thread, I'm getting the Lansky Deluxe Diamond system for Christmas from my fiance's dad. Should be here tomorrow or monday I would imagine. Can't wait to start using it. He gave my fiance the money he wanted to spend, $50, and I found what I wanted. I scored the new, Deluxe Diamond set on eBay for $50 and free shipping!

Add a strop, and you're more than set. Enjoy!

MRK and anyone else who wants to try it.

I have the edgepro apex with a 120, 300 and 600grit stones as well as the 2000grit polishing tapes. I have finished all my sharpening for the year (do all the in-law knives before the holidays so Im not carving turkey with a butter knife) and going back to school has eliminated my time to make knives or generally goof around. I will box it up and ship it out to anyone that wants to try it. Then they can pass it to someone else. If it is on the road for 6 months that wont matter to me.

Shoot me a PM if your interested.

Thanks
The one I am currently "borrowing" from Boise has 5 different grit stones from coarse to 800 grit plus the 2000 grit tape. No matter what, the leather strop is a must for the finish. I think I may buy my own early next year (when I send this one back home).
I did sharpen a couple just holding them against the stop (now that I know it isn't a holder). Everything sharpened up pretty nice, but the chef knife I made went to scary sharp. Didn't last as long as I hoped though. The blade could have been treated a little harder on the Rc.

Tim

I find the edge pro is very consistent and this allows the user to experiment with the best angles for the steel and application it is used for. I play with the 2000 grits for fun but after a few slices most steels are right where they would be if you finished with the 600 stone anyway. I have found S30V and S90V to benifit from going to the 2000 grit but even good steel like D2 or 154CM really does not benifit.

The biggest thing I am guilty of is going to steep on the angles. My wife thinks every knife in the kitchen is great for chopping frozen stuff and using a compound angle of 15 for the primary and 18 degrees for the finish edge leaves chips in most steels when she is done. Going to 21 for primary and 18 for a final edge leaves something pretty durable and I can make a pass or two on a monthly basis and keep everything nice.

For someone who understands a knife is for cutting you can thin up the edges really nice and make even a medium steel like AUS 6 or AUS 8 perform well until the edge simply wears out. I will take a consistent, well sharpened knife of poor quailty steel over a great steel with various angles all over the blade from someone hand sharpening it. And that last is not a knock on anyone who hand sharpens. I spent my entire life watching my Dad sharpen about any thing with an edge to hair popping sharpness and thought everyone could do it. Then I tried and despite years of trying I have admitted defeat and understand it was not an inheirited trait.

And back to the original poster I prefer the wider stones on the Gatco.

I've had a Lansky for almost 30 years and felt that it was a good sharpener until I got an EdgePro Apex. It works so well that you can sharpen all of your buddys' knives before hunting season with just a couple of hours work. You buddys' wives will want you to come over just to sharpen their knives too.

For the $$, the Lansky system is a good product, but it isn't in the same zip code in terms of value or usefulness as the EdgePro.

Jeff

I got my Gatco kit and ultra fine hones. It is just like the Lansky but everything is bigger and better. The stones are nearly twice as thick and 1" longer. The clamp is thicker with 6 angle adjustments as opposed to the 4 of the Lansky. The guide rods are built in and are capable of sliding in and out instead of being attached with a screw. This saves time on setup but doesn't really offer any advantage that I can see. The basic 3 stone kit appears to use the same box as their 5 stone kit so I was able to store the two finer stones I bought with the rest of the kit which is nice.

I like it. Reprofiling an edge goes a lot quicker. I see no difference in sharpness between the two systems. The Gatco just gets you there a heck of a lot faster. It is definitely worth the extra I paid for it over the Lansky. Probably not worth upgrading from a Lansky like I did unless you just want something new or you need to be quicker at it. My Lansky was a gift so I didn't mind spending the money on something better.