Guys,
MN may let 223's be legal deer caliber next fall and normally I am a 30 caliber type guy, but I am itching to try out my AR 15... just because.
I don't reload so I am looking for a good factory load to try.
My AR is 1/8 twist and really like BH 68 grain HP's currently.
Can I expect an exit wound with the 223? I know texas deer drop to 223's all the time, however I like an exit wound for MN winter fat deer to make tracking easier.

H

I took a small whitetail with the Black Hills 55sp last fall. My intention was to use the Black Hills 60np; however, that bullet shot horrible thru my rifle (3 to 4 MOA). The 55 sp did not exit but I did not expect it to either. The deer died plenty quick. I wasn't shooting a fast twist but did not expect the poor preformance out of the 60 grainers. Not sure what was going on there.

is that law change for this fall 08 or 09

My kids hammered a bunch last year with Blackhills 60 grain Nosler Partitions. Exit wound every time, including breaking both shoulders on a big south texas doe and breaking the spine on another big doe.

They were accurate, and about as good as factory 223 gets, unless you can find some 53 grain TSX's - I think Conley Precision loads some...

DJ

Winchester 64gr Power Points dig pretty deep, but I still like Barnes and Swift the best.

i 2nd steelhead's choice. the power points are great i think.

Shot quite a few deer with the .223 and while it can be effective, one thing you cannot count on is an exit wound with most bullets.

The 60 grain Nosler partition is the lone exception and even this is not 100%.....particularly if bone is hit. A broadside lung shot MAY exit with normal bullets (and almost always will with the Nosler), sholders should be avoided and severe angled shots simply not taken at all.

That said......be careful and the .223 will work. With your rifle's fast twist (1 in 8), you should have no problem with the Nosler.....and it is available in factory loads.

Shoulders don't scare me with a Barnes or a Swift, nor does a quartering on shot.

FWIW, Minnesota deer are generally bigger bodied than Texas deer. Something to consider until more information is obtained.

General comment, not directed at SH.

My boys killed a boat load of Texas deer with this Win PP factory load.

My son killed his first two deer with 60 grain partitions from Nosler. Both one shot kills.

Shoulders didn't slow the Nosler Partitions out to 150 yards on deer dressing around 90 lbs this year for my young 'uns, although one shoulder shot with a 55 grain Ultramax did not exit - of course the deer never took a step, either...

Just remembered, I even have some pics, for your viewing pleasure....Grin. There's nothing like actually doing it to know what will happen...This is the 60 grain Blackhills Nosler Partition...

This is the exit...love the shoulder shot - high shoulder is even better!



Internal view...I think it clipped the spine, in addition to breaking both shoulders...



A couple more angles...

Solheim,
They are talking about really overhauling the regulations this fall to simplify them and expand the season too.
Everyone,
A couple things are driving the caliber changes so I look forward and dread the idea of 223's in the MN deer woods. MN deer are heavy and well fatted in November with a nice size doe around 150 - 180 pounds. Some people say 243's are a little small, but the right marksman can use anything and that is my interest in using my Dtech AR. I have a woman friend that hunts ND deer with her 223 and has taken deer at longer yardage than I think the round would be effective, but she loves the low recoil and she can shoot.
If the changes go through, I will have to find winchesters or nosler partitions. I'll try it on the early anterless season first because the deer will be releaxed and may offer more shots while grazing on the oil pipeline or fenceline openings. Sometimes it is hard to believe a small bullet will do the job because I had a poor factory 180 grain 3006 not pass through on a angle shot at 50 yards.
Thanks for the opinions and pictures.
H

If penetration matters, go to www dot guns and ammo dot com/Bullethitsbone.html. I think this may add some light to this discussion.

Use a GOOD bullet and don't sweat it.

This deer was quartering towards me, hit point of shoulder, bullet passed through and destroyed everything and exited. It was a 75gr Swift and distance was 65 yards. Deer weighed 150 without the insides..



Was with my pard when he shot this one a few days later. Deer was going away (and a bit down hill), bullet entered behind shoulder, traveled foward and traveled along side the spine the entire lenght of the neck and exited damn near between the eyes. Distance was maybe 30 yards, bullet was a 70gr TSX




I promise you our Alaska deer have as much fat and hair as any yankee deer.

It doesn't matter; I would take a GOOD 22 cal. that expands to just about anything pointed/RN under 35 cal. non-expanding, or anything that cannot make it to the vitals. Everything smaller than a 35 FN needs to expand some to work right anyway. Wreck their vitals or better yet use something that chops bone and caliber gets pretty silly! Just think, a .224 to a .243?

My thoughts on the 223 for deer are here so I'll just leave it at that.

A good point on MN deer are definately larger than southern deer. It's not uncommon for mature does here to dress at 150, esp in the farmlands. Bucks dressing out at well over 200 are not uncommon either. Something to consider....

The factory loads I'd recommend are the Federal 60 grn Partition, Black Hills 60 grn Partition or Stars and Stripes TSX ammo.

my cz has a much slower 1-12 twist must I use a 55 or smaller?
the change of caliber restrictions is one of the changes being proposed for this year.All new zones,and different liscenses.no more multi zone buck or all season liscense,but,you may be able to buy (and use all three tags) archery,firearms and muzzleloader. here is the article from the dnr website.

Deer Season Simplification

Deer hunters in the field
While Minnesota offers a breadth of deer hunting opportunities, confusions have arisen over the years regarding most aspects of the season. The addition of new licenses, changes in season lengths and bag limits, and tagging requirements have led to confusion among some hunters. Given deer hunting has a client base of 500,000 hunters and the issues can be very divisive, it was decided that an attempt would be made to simplify the deer season wherever possible.

The Deer Season Simplification Committee (DSC) was formed by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Division of Fish and Wildlife (FAW) to assist with simplifying the deer hunting regulations. The DSC was comprised of 13 citizen participants representing various backgrounds and interests including deer hunting groups, new hunters, outdoor media, and individuals with local knowledge of deer hunting issues. The participants were tasked to take a top-down look at statutes and rules (regulations) and make recommendations for simplification.

The DSC met twice in December 2007 and January 2008 and examined many components of Minnesota deer hunting regulations. Ultimately, the group agreed on six major recommendations that could simplify the deer hunting seasons:

1. Consolidate the number of deer hunting licenses
2. Consolidate the number of deer hunting zones
3. Simplify validation of deer license at the site of harvest
4. Enhance regulation book
5. Consider alternative deer registration methods
6. Simplify legal calibers

In all cases, consensus was reached on the major recommendations. Additional issues were brought forth but were not addressed. The participants believed that if the six major recommendations were adopted, the deer season would be substantially simplified and that making recommendations on additional subjects may be too controversial and impede success of the overall task.

The committee's entire report is available online. This is a PDF file. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to download it. (24 pages | 307 kb)

Public meetings to discuss the proposed simplification measures are scheduled in:

* Deer River, 7-9 p.m., March 5, at Morse Town Hall, 32775 Minnesota Highway 46
* Aurora, 6-9 p.m., March 6, at Aurora Community Center, 15 West 1st Ave. North
* St. Paul, 7-9 p.m., March 6, at the DNR/PCA Cafeteria, 500 Lafayette Rd.
* Hutchinson, 7-9 p.m., March 10, in Room 141 of Ridgewater College, 2 Century Ave. SE, Hutchinson
* Winona, 7-9 p.m., March 11, at Elks Club, 4540 Service Drive
* Near Watson, 7-9 p.m., March 12, at Lac qui Parle Wildlife Management Area
* headquarters, 14047 20th St. NW Park Rapids, 7-9 p.m., March 13, at Century School Cafeteria, 501 Helten Ave.
* Mora, 7-9 p.m., March 13, at Mora Public Library, 200 Maple Ave. West
* Thief River Falls, 7-9 p.m., March 25 in at Northland Community College Auditorium.

Interested individuals who cannot attend the meetings are urged to e-mail comments to [email protected].

For factory ammo, slam dunk would be the 60 grain Nosler Partition that Federal loads. No Texas heart shots but you should be good on about any angle if you do your part...

This bullet makes them very, very, sick...

I purchased and outfitted a NEF Handi-rifle (youth Super Light) in .223 last year. This gun has the 12" twist barrel. While I haven't finished wringing out this set-up, I've had my best range experiences to date with 53 gr. Barnes TSX's pushed by 25 gr. of H4895. The slower twist barrels seem to do fine with this bullet-and, many reportedly also do well with the Nosler 60 gr. Partition. My intended use for this pipsqeak is for the occasional super recoil sensitive youngsters our Wildlife Unlimited group sponsors during Michigan's Deer Youth Hunt. (I also use a tack-driving, Youth stocked Handi in .30-30 for this purpose). These hunts always pair an experienced adult mentor with the young hunter-primarily hunting from blinds over food plots.

I've seen enough pictures and read enough reports of folks who have actually used this TSX .223 load to have confidence in its use on whitetails-especially under the controled settings in which I'm likely to use it. Frankly, I'm expecting leaky exit holes on any reasonable broadside shot. If I get a chance to see it used this Fall, I'll report back.

Can't fathom this many "Stuntsters" use a .223 to take deer.....and seems quite successfully too

Daughter took her first three deer with 60 gr nosler .223 all dropped in their tracks.

1. Yes I believe that the proposed changes for MN will go into effect for the 08 season.

2. While not yet finalized, I believe that when the DNR gets to the stage that they are at with the changes, they will more than likely be approved. There may be some small changes based on input at these informational meetings, but they're pretty much where they expect to be IMHO.

3. While I have no doubt that a 223 would and do kill deer with the proper bullet and shot placement, I'd rather that it not be approved for MN. For many hunters, based on their hunting experience and knowhow, the 223 is adequate. I just don't believe that the 223 and other 22 calibers are a deer load for "everyone". None of the informational meetings are in my area, so I commented online, saying that I would prefer to see a 243 minimum caliber in MN.

JMHO

Dave

The development guys at Winchester Ammo love the 64-grain Power Point in the .223. I've used it some and have absolutely no complaints at all.

Steve

As for the Minnesota regs ... I have no problems with making 22 centerfire the minimum.

Nobody around here drives a hornet anyway. And WERE they looney 'nuff to drive a hornet I'd trust them more on a buck than some jackpine savage with his 30-06 Rem 742 "Minnesota Machine Gun"

GE

If you are shooting a slow twist, shoot some Federal Tactical (I despise that word) it is loaded with either the 55 or 62 grain Bear Claw bullet. Let your rifle pick, I have a Tikka T-3 that really likes them, and if I don't change my mind before next season, I will be hunting with it as well. I have a little of the 55 grain Tactical (gag) load laying around, and plan to use it.....

CorBon loads the 53 gr & 62 gr and specs are for a 16" barrel.
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm

Hey CT, think Sabin will have our guys in the right frame of mind come Sept? RTR!!

If he don't, there will be hell to pay.....