maybe this has been asked before, anyone shooting the 120 grain ballistic tip at deer in a .280 or 7-08? like it/don't like it?

Been using it several years now and can not complain. I started using it with a 7mm08 and am currently using it with a 7mm08 AI. I like to shoot them through the ribs and it does a very good job. miles

I use the 120BT in my .280AI. It works very well on whitetail and is super accurate.

thanks I had one bad experience with a ballistic silver tip many years ago and I am trying to overcome my prejudice. A friend uses them to good effect as well, they are cheaper than many bullets out there and seem to get good accuracy despite what you shoot them out of.

Been running the .280AI with 120 BTs (3400+ fps)this spring for hogs. So far looking very, very promising. N=5, all bang-flops with 2 holes. Sizes from 60-180 lbs, ranges from 30-150 yards.
I'm gonna try some 120 TTSXs next, got 'em loaded and ready to sight-in. Only reason is because they have been so outstanding in 150 gr out of the .300WSM.

My daughters and grand-kids have taken several pickup loads of desert mule deer, Coues whitetails, Texas whitetails, Kansas whitetails and pronghorns with 120 grain Nosler solid bases and ballistic tips in a variety of 7mm-08s. We have never lost an animal.

As near as I can recollect, without going to the hunting diaries, only one animal took more than 1 shot. He was a large mule deer shot at a lazer-ranged (after the fact) 420 yds. He was dead on his feet after the first shot but just had not realized it yet. He stood around long enough for the second shot to put him down where he stood.

I regard Ballistic Tips to be one of the better (if not the best) of the "non-premium" bullets.

The 120 BTs work great in my son's 7mm-08 on whitetail deer.

At one time it was more of a varmint round, However I read recently that the silohuet shooters....requested a more stout bullet for their applications... and due to the demand, Nosler granted the request. More recent product is +/- 60% copper, and a fairly rugged bullet for big game.

The newer 120gr ballistic tips are much tougher than the old versions in the red and green boxes of 100.I have used them on or large bodied Canadian deer and they do a fine job.

Can you drill shoulders and get an exit with them? Details?

Thanks,

DJ

Can someone section one and put up a pic ???

I use them in my 284 win. Velocity, accuracy and performance are great in my opinion. They go cross ways thru a mule deer chest and keep on going.
Others on this site have used them on elk and moose successfully.

They worked great for my wife this past season out of her 7-08 at about 70 yds (MV 3100ish). Caliber entrance, about a nickel sized exit. She said the deer (7 pointer) looked like it threw itself down it dropped so fast. This was a behind the shoulder shot. Honestly, we've used Accubonds the past several years and performance was very similar - very small sample size in this case.

DJ,
I'd say yes. Check with dogzapper as he's run them through a few big elk with his 280AI I believe.
Elvis,
There was a pic on the fire here a while back while the 120 NBT was being debated - I'll help search for it.

They've been more accurate than my trusted NAB load out of my 7RM and may replace it if they hold up to the "Muley @ 3500fps" test.

I have been shooting them out of my 280AI with great results. All have been blacktails and mulies and one Antelope. All did not make if more than 20 yards. I really wanted to shoot the 140AB out of this rifle but it does not like them at all. The ballistic tips are sure impressing me to this point!

FWIW, I put a 120grBT thru a running broadside buck's shoulders at around 80-100yds from my old 7-08AI. The bullet penetrated the first scapula but stopped short of even denting the second scapula. No exit or offside hide here:


Recovered 120grBT core:



And here is a 140grBT and 120grBT I sectioned about 5yrs ago. Note the beefier jacket up front, but not really beefy enough to make much difference in penetration between the two. I would rather have the extra 20grs of lead:


A recovered 140grBT/7-08 from the offside hide of a 400lb+ bear, the core separated and I placed it back inside for these pics. A better big game bullet IME and opinion (though a 140grNP trumps both):

Somewhere I have a similar recovered 165grBT/3006 from another bear, identical performance.

I also recovered a 139gr Hornady BTSP from a head on shot at a buck, the bullet hit the spine dead on, took out about 5" of vertebrate. On another bigger muley buck I got complete pass thrus with 2 shots at 400yds+ (lasered too). However, nothing was left of the core with this head on spine shot at about 80yds:


The 120grBT is a fine bullet for most deer, just don't expect the same bone crushing, shoulder drilling performance of bullets like the 140gr Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX or the new Nosler E tip.

I personally prefer the 139gr/140gr weight bullets for hunting with the 7-08 class of cartridges, they deliver more damage, buck the wind better and fly plenty flat out to 400-500yds.

From the 7-08, I have never recovered a 140grNP or 120grX from bears or deer.

Will be trying out the new Hornady GMX 139gr if I can get my hands on some.

MtnHtr

Thanks, 'Hunter.

DJ

Great post and pic's Mtn Hunter!

I've been using them in my 284 Win. for quite awhile. Never a problem.

From what I have seen in our area these ballistic tips are priced at nearly the same level as premium bullets. Given the pricing my choice would always be in favour of partitions.

Admittedly I am prejudiced against ballistic tips from the one time I used one on a small antelope. Swore they would never go through any of my guns again unless it was for shooting paper. Have been given a few on occasion and paper is where they have gone. They kill paper just fine. YMMV.

Jim

Jimmy-you may wish to see if you can get some thoughts from Dogzapper on this. He's got as much or more experience with that bullet that probably anyone out there and his commments are more than a bit favorable!

Personally, I'd have no issues with using it out of a 7/08 or 284 for all that moved in my part of the world.

Good luck to ya!

Dober

I started a thread a few months ago on just this subject. I just tried to find it, but the forum software seems to be set to not go very far back anymore??

Anyway, there was a lot of BS from the usual half-dozen guys who have to try and screw everything up, but, if you were willing to wade through their crap the upshot was that it is a surprisingly tough little bullet.

I share your trepidation about running light-for-caliber Ballistic Tips, JimmyP, which was why I also asked...

I've been shooting boatloads of the lil bastards through my 7-08 this year. Great bullet, very accurate, holds up OK at longer ranges. I'm still deciding myself if I'll use it for hunting or not. I'm more inclined to run the 140 Accubond, personally, but we'll see....

I've gotten several PMs asking me for input on this thread, so I guess I will.

Several years ago, my friend Chub, who worked at Nosler, advised me to try the 7-120 Ballistic. He told me that they'd made the jacket quite heavy for Rifle Silhouette shooting (so it would tip over the 500 meter target) and the resulting bullet was fabulous. Chub tested in on a slew of Northern California wild boars and it punched through both shoulder gristle plates ... something that takes a lot from a bullet.

So, to make a long story mercifully short, I killed a bunch of Montana antelope with the bullet in my .280 Ackley (MV=3,370 fps @10'), experiencing flat trajectory, minimal wind drift, convincing one-shot kills and full penetration, regardless of the angle. As a note, antelope bone is hard stuff, way tougher and harder than deer or elk bone and any time you shoot a goat on a full frontal and punch through the pelvis going out, you've seen a good bullet do its job.

So, I rotated to killing mule deer and Alberta whitetail with the 120. Again, quick kills and full penetration. Frankly, I have never recovered a 120 from a deer or an antelope and I've killed a few pickup loads of those critters with it.

I got caught flatfooted in Alberta once, when I was hunting whitetail with 120s. I had a moose tag in my pocket and a bull ran out into the farm two-track and begged me to whack him. I obliged. He was 91 yards distant and I placed the 120 under his jaw. The shot was kinda angled, so I just did the best I could to drive the life out of the three-year old Bullwinkle.

At the shot, the moose stood there for about three seconds and then fell over like a perfectly balanced sheet of plywood that catches a slight breeze.

The 120 fully-penetrated the neck, taking an entire vertabrae out the back of the neck. Somehow, I clipped a carotic artery because the wound pumped copious quantities of Bullwinkle's lifeblood at each cardiac contraction.

Later, I got caught hunting big mule deer twice when I had an elk tag in my pocket. In each instance, I whacked a mature 6X6 bull elk with the bullet. I've recounted these kills several times on the Campfire, but I'll give a thumbnail sketch once again. Both bulls died most sincerely dead.

One was shot solidly though both shoulders, with the bull DOA and the bullet rested under the skin on the far shoulder. Range was +400 yards. Bullet expansion was .75" or so and the expanded bullet weighed slightly less than 100-grains

The second was about 375 yards, below me and looking away. I hald on the back of the head, wanting to hit between the shoulder blades, which I did. The bullet destroyed a vertabrae between the scapulas and penetrated to the chest, where it lodged under the chest hide. The bullet is a clone of the pervious one, expansion to 3/4" and losing perhaps 25% of its weight. The bull bent into an L and rolled down into the snowy canyon. Why the hell do they always roll down into fuggin' canyons?

As a note, the bulls were killed with my little blue 7SGLC that gets a MV of 3,255 fps out of the 120s.

I would not purposly carry 120s for elk or Bullwinkle mooses, but my experience has been that it does the job in a handy fashion. Sometimes I screw up and when I do, the bullet bails me out

One cool mule deer kill that comes to mind was on a convoluted hunt. It was a gumbo year, deep mud and frozen base and we were having troubles getting around. One morning, in the way dark, I found a hell of a mule staring at me through a tree at way close. All I could see was his face and way too good a set of horns to pass up. I placed the Heavy Duplex on his right eye and he went down in a heap.

Actually, I thought the buck was a 150 B&C and he was waaaaay better (sometimes you slip in the gumbo and come out smelling like roses). The bullet entered just below the eyeball, transversed the head and left without breaking the skill (yeaaaa), leaving a one-inch exit.

To those who have had trouble with this bullet, I would suggest that maybe you got really, really old stock. The 120 was originally marketed as a varmint bullet and it originally had a light jacket. Perhaps the rare failures were these original bullets, but those would have to be at least ten years old and in the old boxes.

I have had nothing but wonderful results with the modern version of the Nosler .284" 120-grain Ballistic Tip. Your mileage may vary, but I've killed enough with these bullets to at least have an opion that is based on forty or fifty kills ... I've never counted, but it is a decent sampling.

This is simply my way of trying to help. Hopefully, Campfire members will consider my experiences and make rational decision on bullet choice based on this and other member's experiences in the field. We are all here to help each other and expand our experience base.

In the end, I don't have any monetray investment or gain to be made here. BUT, I do have a moral investment and a great satisfaction when my brothers, other hunters, use a bullet that works. The Nosler 7-120 works!!!

Steve

Here are a few 120-grain victims.

Man, I know where theres a sweet 7Saum that I'd love to try some out in..

Shag-now that would be a rocket ride wouldn't it...

Dober

DZ,

Thank you for the chiming in, no real trouble with the 120grBT but I'll add some more thoughts.

I don't consider my one 120grBT a failure, the buck dropped instantly, I was just surprised the core disintegrated and all that was left was the jacket after breaking thru one scapula. The recovered 120grBT I used was from the same stock as the sectioned bullet pictured, purchased around 2002 IIRC. No old stock for sure (gold & green label). As a matter of fact, I purchased the 120grBTs after reading your article in VHA's magazine on the 7-08AI (SGLC).

I used to correspond with your old gunsmith Darrell Holland and he much preferred the 140grBT over the 120grBT for whacking big game. Another old hunter near here has quite a few B&C entries and exotics using the 7-08/140grBT to his credit including elk (see thread1 link below). When asked why the 140grBT, he stated it was a giant killer when launched from his 7-08s (he owned quite a few 7-08s too).

For those interested, here are some past threads:

Recent 120grBt Thread1

Older 120grBT Thread2

MtnHtr

MtnHtr,

No problem, my friend.

I once hunted with an Professional Hunter in what had newly become the People's Republic of Zimbabwe. He was the veteran of lots of elephant & cape buffalo culling. He'd done a lot of hunting and he also had seen the kills of his clients for many years.

Something Clive told me always stuck in my brain. "Steve, you can take the same cartridge, load and bullet. Shoot it at 100 of precisely the same species at precisely the same range at precisely the same point of bullet placements ...... and you will have 100 different animal reactions, 100 different bullet performances and 100 different trails to either follow or not follow."

He told me about wonderful bullets that for some reason failed and hits that should not have killed anytime soon that simply decked the critter.

This doesn't keep us from trying, though. We shoot to kill cleanly and we shoot the finest bullet we know that will get the job done. Still, sometimes we fail miserably and other times we succeed beyond our wildest dreams.

That recalled a mind picture. I once shot a heck of a nice red hartebeest in the Northern Transvaal. The critter was about 100 yards away and I never frickin' saw the small tree that was about 50 yards out

Hartebeest can be awfully tough and it's best to nail them most rickey-tick.

Anyway, I carefully aimed to bust both shoulders. At the shot, the bull simply rolled over deader than yesterday's newspaper.

We walked up and my PH gasped when he saw the newly shot-off one-inch thick tree.

We walked to my hartebeest and inspected the animal that was laying upside down with four legs pointing towards the sky. We rolled the bull over and inspected the bullet hole.

On the bull's side, way back of the ribcage, was a sideways bullet hole. I was shooting a .30-'06 with 180-grain Hornady BTSPs. The bullet entered exactly sideways and left the most perfect sideways silhouette of the Hornady bullet.

The PH said, "I'll be damned, the last gutshot hartebeest we got cost us a full day and eleven miles of tracking."

It was the hartebeest's day to die and it was my day to get lucky.

When we butchered the bull, it was obvious how lucky I was. The bullet entered the paunch way, way, way back and we recovered it in almost perfect condition with the lower guts. As far as we could tell, no arteries or major veins were severed, no vital organs were hit and not a guy was cut.

The bugger just simply died. And it will always be a mystery as to why.

Bullets are strange things and so is the death of an animal. Clive was right, you can shoot 100 of the same animal with the same hit with the same gear and you'll get 100 different results.

The best that we, as hunters, can do is to lessen the percentages of screw-ups as much as we can by taking that last extra little bit of care in setting up the shot, by insuring that we place the bullet as best we can and by using a bullet with which we have had excellent results.

The rest, my friend, is left up to the Killing Gods and their mercy.

Steve

Steve-thx for chiming in with your experiences.

The only thought I'd add on bullets and killing is that if you shoot enough animals and see enough taken. And darn few ever get to IMO, most people are seeing 2-3 critters a year taken is that sooner or later the bullet of your choice will do something that will make you go hmm...

Have a super day, and thx for your time

Dober

Great photos Mtn Hunter. Thank you very much.

Dogzapper-if you don't mind, what are your thoughts to the diffs between the 120 NBT and the 140 NBT?

And if you come thru Boze on the way east this fall let me know.

Many thx

Dober

Steve - I have a friend who killed either 2 or 3 moose with a .243 in the early days when he didn't have another centerfire caliber to use. In spite of them being clean kills neither he nor anyone else I know has ever advocated them as being the preferred caliber for moose.

In my comments I acknowledged my prejudice against Ballistic Tips generally. Since in my area they cost nearly as much as partitions my choice is the latter. I've used partitions for probably 40 years or more and since they have always done what I want done there has never been a reason to look for something different.

I realize there are many contributors here on the campfire who get to shoot multiples of animals every year so they have the opportunity to experiment if they wish to. My opportunities are much more limited so I stick to the tried and true (in my experience) and have continued to be happy with the results.

I have no problem with others using 120 gr. 7mm bullets or .223 with whatever if that is what turns their crank. I simply stated my opinion. Not trying to change anyone elses choices. It just seems some people have to preach for their personal choices as being the only logical pick instead of acknowledging that something else may work for others. I'll leave it at that.

Jim

Friend Dober,

I used the 140 Ballistic for many, many years and found it did everything I wanted. The bullets stayed in a lot of animals, but I am not one of those PC critters who sits in his armchair and demands that every bullet leaves two holes. Hey, dead is dead and that's good enough for me.

My impression of the 120 is that it penetrates deeper and bloodshoots less. It also shoots flatter at game ranges and the recoil is less. I'm a woos when it comes to recoil and I shoot the 120 really well.

As a side note, Bob Nosler personally shoots the 150 Ballistic in his Jarrett .280 Ackley. He likes lessened bloodshooting.

Hope this answers your question.

You bet, when we travel through Bozeman next, we'll look you up. We're not hunting this year because of two long, wonderful, expen$ive and fun pilgrimages (Holy Land and Rome), but we'll draw for Montana prairie goats again in 2010.

Steve

Mark,

I am one of those who see 2-3 deer taken a year and that is why this site is a big help for me in getting input from so many others who have experiences to share. My wife used a 120 BT this past fall in her 7-08 to take a decent Missouri 7 pointer - two holes, spectacular DRT drop according to her. I went to that bullet for her after reading threads like this one. It is nice to hear results from others and to see them born out personally. 'Course like you say doesn't mean it'll happen every time. Thx for your input and yours too zapper.

bludog

What a refreshing thread!

After wading thru pages of I'm-smarter-than-you-are-and-you're dumber-than-I-am threads, this thread is a reminder of why this site is here.

That's a big 10-4 southtexas!

My little 708 LOVES the 120 grain 2nds I've been feeding it. Can't wait till fall.

This has been a good and friendly thread. Kind of refreshin likes been mentioned.

Nice to come and share ideas and cuss and discuss things without someone getting the boxers in a bunch.

Amazing what checking the ego at the door will do is it not.

Plus it's so nice to have someone with the kind of time that DZ has in with the bullet come and talk about his experiences!

Life is good aint it guyz!

Shoot straight and shoot often.

Dober

Yes, wonderful thread, and thanks to DZ (as always) for sharing his, well, life.

Big +1!

one of the best posts i've ever read, once you've heard the truth everything else is cheap whiskey....

I don't believe that any of us here had an axe to grind, and that is a great thing. Certainly, I have absolutely nothing to gain is nobody ever shot the Nosler 7-120Ballistic. But sharing great experiences with this bullet and having others expand on that experience ... well, that is priceless.

In the end, most of us are here to share with each other and to help each other. We are here as equal cyber-friends and we are here to learn together.

It's sad when a thread devolves into a pissing match, like the one in the Optics Forum on the B&C reticle. There, one new-old member (Big Stick aka TryMe) and a local fella tangled bungholes and absolutely nobody learned a frickin' thing except that otherwise nice folks can agree to disagree and that the subject is secondary to their disrespect of each other (and of the Campfire community in general). Even worse the bunghole-tangle becomes primary and actual learning gets lost.

The conversation in this thread was totally civil and between the group of us we examined the subject very well.

It's a beautiful thing; no ego, no smartass stuff, just discussion, total respect and learning among equals.

Steve

Excellent summary Steve.

Indeed some here can ruin an entire thread. While I have many of them on ignore that does not stop them from destroying a topic.

It seems the thing to do is to ignore the entire topic and go on to some other.

I will say that Dober was right - the 150 NBT out of the 7WSM does make an awesome yote slayer...

Never seen it not work on a deer.

I was rather unpleasantly surprised at the explosiveness of a 150 BT from my 7-08 some years ago. It basically removed about an orange-size chunk of meat from it's neck. That experience was why I asked about the 120 BT a while ago; on some level, I still look at the suckers a little crossways, if that makes sense.

If I opt to hunt the 120 this year, and I might 'cause I'm shooting boatloads of them right now and they rock... I will do my DAMNDEST to keep it out of the meat. Especially the rear shoulder... grin...

I believe that the nastiest wound I EVER saw was one I inflicted on a really great 4X4 (plus eyeguards) blacktail buck I shot around 1990. I shot him under the chin and the bullet went lengthwise down the neck vertabrae.

The bullet was a 140-grain Partition out of my .280 Ackley and it bloodshot the neck so badly that I could hardly stand to butcher that area. I have a pretty strong stomach for carnage, but this one was super-nasty with cranberry jelly.

Sometimes you hit them and it is bad. Other times you hit them and is, as they say, "not so much."

No telling why that happens. It just happens.

Another time, I killed a really great 4X4 mule deer out of Jordan, Montana. It was one of those zero-degree days in the snow, with no wind and I really wanted the buck. The range was fully 500 yards and, because the range was extreme (for me), I didn't do anything fancy. Just shot the buck cleanly through both lungs with my .280 Ackley, using a 139-grain Hornady Spire Point.

The exit hole was not even near the far shoulder, yet it bloodshot the far shoulder, both sides of the backstrap over the shoulders and the far ribcage.

Why? Danged if I know.

Bullets do strange things sometimes.

If I had judged the bullets on a single kill, I would have judged wrongly in both cases.

Steve

Nice thread. As a new member of the 7mm clan aquiring both a 280 Rem and 7mm-08, I'm looking for options. I have always found the NBT a very accurate bullet in other calibers and the jacket reminds me of the heavier jackets on the .338 BT's.

As others have said, nice thread

Hey Steve!

If it's your FIRST experience with a bullet... it kind of sticks with you, if you know what I mean.

I'm ready to give 'em another try though. Thanks for the good info!

-jeff

Interesting. My worstest/nastiest was one most wouldn't believe. A reduced load in a 7X57, 2575 fps with the old 140 Solid Base.

I shot a decent whitetail through the ribs at about 120 yards, impact velocity couldn't have been over 2400 fps. The damage to both shoulders was unreal, and the bullet never touched the shoulders! Cranberry jelly is right. Don't ask me to explain it! I shot several other deer with that load and with that one exception could eat up to the bullet hole.

What a great and informative thread. A pleasure.

There is something I don't understand here. I once shot an Axis buck with a hand loaded 180BT in 300 Wby. IT was cruising somewhere around 3200 fps from the muzzle. Impact was 185 yards away. THe bullet disintegrated on impact, opened a 4-6" hole in the onside rib cage and knocked the wind out of him. The second shot in the spine put him down as he was trying to get up on his feet. Upon gutting, the only penetration I found was the green tip imbedded in an offside rib.

I called Nosler when I got home and Mr. Nosler told me the BT's were never designed for impact speeds over 3100 or they will do exactly what happened to me.

Yet, you guys talk about driving this bullet over 3250-3300 fps. Do you think there may be an exception here given the heavier construction of this particular bullet in comparison to other BT's ??

A slight bit, but it's still not a partition nor was it designed to be.

MtnHtr

Bringing a refreshing thread back to the top.

I notice that Shooters Pro Shop has the 7mm-08 with 140 E-tip blem ammo on sale. With a published velocity of 2,850 fps, thoughts on using said load for an elk hunt next year?

Kind of a side step question for this thread, but is there a .277" NBT that enjoys the same reputation as the 120/7mm?

Great informational thread!

Based on what I've read I decided to give them a try. Handloads shoot 1/2" groups in my 7mm-08 and I gained a bunch of FPS over the 140's I was using.

120 Bt's will be in my magazine this fall.

I think you'd be more than well armed. Got a pard in WY that's shot them from close to nearly 700yds with the 140gr AB out of a 7-08 and not one problem.

Never tire of bullet discussion.

The 120gr is a much beefier bullet than the 140 and is capable of better penetration...especially on larger animals. powdr