So when you lung shoot a deer and it runs off, do you assume you hit it solidly, and just watch it run? I don't have the confidence to do this - usually I'm shooting at running deer (in front of dogs) and almost always through brush. Too many things can go wrong for me to be confident on my first shot. Only once have I held off and that was on a buck that I could see was leaking like a garden hose at 50+ yards. I watched him go another 100 yards and collapse.

I am a shoulder shooter and it's not that I'm a poor hunter - it's just that I tend to shoot at deer until they are down (maybe that's weird, but that's how I was taught). If I'm going to do that, the way to waste least meat is to put it down on the first shot.

Most of my deer hunting is done with a .444. Normally I use the 265 grain loads, but for quite a few years they were unavailable (factory), so I used .240 grains... The 265 grains are not that bad, but the 240 grains make a mess of the shoulder - but less of a mess that if I shoot through the lungs and then a couple shots in the rump as it runs away.

Not real shure what your asking.

If I shot at a running deer I'd keep shooting cause I'd not be overly confident on the shot. All the deer I've shot in the lungs did not go very far. Keep in mind they were not being chased by dogs either.

shows to go ya....

there's all different kinds of hunting.

Up here if we saw a dog chasing a running deer we'd shoot the dog first then the deer.



don't take that wrong, nobody wants to shoot your dog. We just can't hunt that way up here so we would assume certain responsibilities to put a stop to a deer chasing dog.

our running deer are usually running because of a "drive" effort.

Lots of groups organize drives to get deer moving.

I don't, I still hunt & stand hunt.

But I have shot at running deer & elk & in that case I too focus on the shoulder & shoot till I know the animal isn't going to get away from me wounded.

when I stand hunt or still hunt & I am aforded a confident still or walking shot I do my best to lung shoot just behind the shoulder.

Mostly yes. A good bunch of them never make more than a few steps, most not more than 30 yds. When hunting from a stand (or a perch ast Steelhead put it), and shooting at a deer 30 yds away with a rest I generally feel pretty comfortable with my shots.

If I am not confidant of the shot.. then I keep shooting until their down or I can't see them anymore.

Pretty much the same as noKnees. I hunt tree stands almost exclusively in Jersey and the Catskills of NY. Shots are generally close and the deer unalarmed, so it's not difficult to get that perfect broadside shot.

30-06, 6MM, 270, 12GA foster slug, 12GA sabot slug, round ball muzzleloader, sabot muzzleloader or arrow, the all seem to react pretty much the same, if you get that broadside shot right behind the shoulder only damaging a rib going in & out, they take off like a bat, go 30-35 yards and drop. If you listen, you can actually hear them drop.

Only exception I've seen is with an arrow, I've shot several with a perfect broadside shot and put the arrow right through them, they jump or flinch, then stand there alert, or start taking a few steps like they're going to sneak out of the area and fall over after a few steps. One actually went back to feeding and was chewing as he fell over.

When we used to do drives, you shot til they dropped. I hunt in slug zone, & an unaware deer hit with a .73 caliber projectile weighing an ounce or more generally show signs of being hit if they're hit well. These days, I use a muzzle loader for everything, and have yet to need a second shot with it.

I jack another shell in as fast as I can, but out of the mere 20 or so deer I've killed, only ONE even gave me the chance for a 2nd shot anyway... it's just so thick around here, they dissapear fast.

I have generally chosen the cartridge and bullet I use to minimize meat damage, and I generally try to NOT shoot them in the shoulder. That all went the hell in a handbasket this year, when I shot a buck through the... uh... rear shoulder. Ooops.

It's that 30-35 yards after the shot thing... That's probably time for another couple of shots and if it's running straight away, it's not going to be pretty.

rear shoulder. TFF!!

i have to remember that one

It's pretty thick where I hunt, generally a bound or 2 and the cover has swollowed them up, very little opportunity for a second shot or third shot.

Practice, have confidence in your shooting ability, make the first shot like it's the only shot you'll get, and listen to him drop right after the cover swallows him up.

*LOL* I was thinking the same thing.

To answer the original question, yes, I'll normally shoot again if the opportunity presents itself. Rare is the occasion due to heavier cover etc.

you lousy hunter

LOL!!

We could all do worse.

I just got a kick out of something Jeff O wrote, he talked about accidentally shooting the "rear shoulder"

Welcome to the campfire.

Northern Dave,

"Rear Shoulders" ???

Whats funny about that? Lots of animals have "rear shoulders"



Regards,

Peter

Dave, it was the first animal I butchered myself, and it was a fitting punishment for my transgression. I had to confront the mess I'd made, and deal with it, myself. What a PITA.

I'd stay out of those rear shoulders, if I were you. Just sayin'... grin...

oh I've been there. lots of us would rather not admit it but I aint gonna pretend I don't know what femur shrapnel looks like

I generally get one shot and that's it. If the deer dowsn't drop on the spot I always assume its a marginally shot and give time and proceed with care.

I don't recommend admitting it. Candor is not your friend around here.

You know what though, it was a very timely test of a bullet. I was a little worried, in the back of my mind, that I should have gone with a Partition instead of Accubond (this was my .325, my elk rifle de jour for last season). That bullet smashed right through the hip joint, and went the length of the deer. So I felt much mo' betta about my load after that.

Crazy thing is, that buck ran about 100 yards! That made me feel like crap, too. That had to hurt.

I've had to pay for my arrogance. NOt in the long run but in the short run. Took us almost 20 hours to find a deer hit in the back of the lungs and liver. It ran a ways, wobbled and laid down. My nephew had to go to church so they left, and I was waiting till dark to get his buck, it got up and walked off... I had no gun. We SHOULD have shot that buck a second time. They didn't though.

Generally I"m 200% sure of my shot placement and 2nd shots are rare so I don't, I just make the first count and blood trail it from there on out if need be.

Of course they do waste a lot of meat if its never recovered. And IF I know its not good I"ll take any shot again. I punched one in the back leg this year as she got up to get away... long story there, and I even missed the back end shot, I was about 1 inch off to the left of where i wanted to punch the second shot....it made a mess but she didn't get away.

Bottom line it depends on each shot individually.

If the deer keeps running after the shot...sure I'll try to shoot again. Due to thick cover, it is tough a lot of times. The one time I did get to shoot again, I JO'd one in the "rear shoulder" and it was not pretty.

Generally try and take them behind the shoulder and they seldom go over 50 yards. I've been using 165 grain Hornady reloads for years and they've served me well.

I've shot at only one running deer and I missed with my first shot and hit him in the same spot with the next 2 shots.

Have shot two doe through the lungs with a 444 Marlin, but both were with 200gr HP reloads. One dropped, the other made it a few yards and keeled. 200gr XTPs are my current favorite in that diameter, especially in the M629 Smiff.

Of the several deer shot through the lungs with the 25-06 and a 100gr bullet, none went anywhere once gravity got the best of 'em. Although one big doe did rare-up and go backwards a bit, before falling over.

Just my meager experiences with lungers.

Depends on other issues too. First weekend, there's usually a lot of guys in the woods, and it heeds one to get that deer off it's feet within view of you. Later in the season, if I see the deer flinch, and know it's a good hit, I might hold off on the second shot. It all just depends.

200 gr HP? I find the factory remington 240 grain loads too soft. A long time ago I shot some 180 hp .44 mag loads (30 gr H110). We called them "hand grenades". I never shot deer with them, but the worked well on groundhogs.

Most of the deer that I shoot are calm and do not know that I am there so therefore I usually can wait until I can get a good shot. Most of the deer that I have shot have shown sign of being hit if they run off. If a deer starts running off after the shot, even if I think I hit it good, I will attempt to put another round in the lungs IF I can get another shot. Most the places that I hunt are brushy and in the woods so therefore its hard to get more than one shot. I try to make that first shot count. Usually by the time that I bolt another round into the chamber and get the deer back in my scope, the deer is down on the ground. Most of mine have ran 50 yards or less.
If I was hunting running deer in front of dogs, I would rather have a good shotgun shooting #1 buckshot because it makes it easier to hit the deer and if you are within shotgun range the deer just about drops in their tracks.

You "JO'd" one... oh Lord... we'll be seeing THAT term again <g>.

hey you coined the phrase "rear shoulder"

you're stuck with it now

After shooting a deer I shoot it again if I can. I would rather anchor it soon rather than loose one and I can't be positive that the first shot was good.

I shot a very large buck deer in the ribs when it was standing-feeding in a field. It was about 180 yards away and the load was a 270 WSM with the 140 Nosler BT. At the hit the buck hunched up and just stood there. The does with him ran off. I loaded up again and sighted on him and he was just standing there. I could not believe it after using a 'magnum'!

I shot him again and he finally went down. I walked up to him and he was still holding his head up! I should have ordered the 7mm WSM and I still regret it.

Well if the dogs are chasing the deer it won't do you any good to sit and wait for him to die..get after him and the dogs..

If no dogs then let him run a bit, give him a little time to die, then track him, lung hits usually give a good blood trail and you can tell lung blood from muscle or gut blood..If you don't have lung blood its time to eat lunch then go find him.

I, personally, would opt for a different caliber like a 30-06 and if you like a lever one of the nice Win. M-95 carbines comes to mind..I have been going to get one myself. I just don't like those old punkin rollers, they kill but they kill way to slow for me, and I have used them quite a bit in the past.

BTW, I understand that there are places where you must use dogs to be successful, but apparantly some don't know that, and the holier than thou come out of the woodwork, especially those that have hunted very little and are all warm and fuzzy about such things, and condem about every disapline of hunting imaginable other than their own style that probably works where they hunt and they have never hunted anywhere else. This always gives the anti's ammo IMO.

The double lung shot is my favorite shot, I prefer it to the heart shot simply because it kills quicker as a rule, especially if you place the bullet close to the heart. A heart shot animal will many times make a mad dash and can cover as much as 200 yards on ocassion..

With much consistency the deer run about 70 yds before piling up after a double lung shot where I hunt. These are generally hit at fairly high velocity with 243's or 270's at 100yds or so. I went to a slower load and a larger, softer bullet (140 grain Gameking out of my 260 at proabably +/- 2750) and am getting strait drops with the small sampling to date. Have had one deer stand after being hit with a 270 and another by a 7mag as if not realizing what happened. They dropped in a matter of three seconds or so - or about the same time it takes them to run the 70 yds. Seemes a loss of blood pressure thing. Just my experience on the smallish Tx whitetails and moderate sized axis deer FWIW.

This unlucky little guy ran at least 200 yards after my .358 did this to him at close range. They are capable of some amazing stuff, sometimes:

Sigh...

I knew we'd get around to this.

I don�t think anybody condemned anything here.

I said we�d shoot the dog first, and it�s true most in my hunting area would. Simply because the sight of a dog running a deer here where we hunt would be bad. Because it�s not legal so it would mean the dogs are wild and or acting on there own with ill intent. It would never cross our minds that �hey, maybe somebody�s dogs got too far out ahead� or �hey, somebody�s working this area with the dogs�. Because it�s just not legal in my area so nobody is used to seeing it, we just don�t see it. We cant bait either, it�s just the laws we have to abide by. I don�t condemn anybody for utilizing the legal means of hunting for there respective area. If it was legal here we�d be doing it. We probably have regulation advantages that other areas don�t have, possibly in the way of elevated stand regs or the fact that we can use centerfire rifles, we can party hunt, things like that.


Not sure if you were referring to me with the holier than thou stuff but that is certainly not how I feel nor is it my intent to be interpreted that way.

I sure wish we could party hunt in Oregon. I would have tagged a 6x6 bull elk, my first day elk hunting 7-8 years ago. And another bull a couple years after that.

We hunt crown (public land) just south of the east corner of Algonquin Park (about 100 miles west of Ottawa Ont). I like to run the dogs when I can, because it's something that is likely to be banned in the future (it already has been in most of the province). It's an accepted traditional way of hunting in this area, so having a dog shot is really unlikely. I always used to worry about my old golden/lab cross who would bark at hunters in treestands because they looked like bears to him. Fortunately, he was never shot at.

The biggest problem we have with other hunters is that most of them know a good dog when they see one. Several times, the guys hunt with the dog for a couple of days before they call. One guy took 12 days. I think he would have kept her, except his wife made him return her. Lots of guys ask if they can get a pup.

I realise dogs on deer is very much taboo in many areas so I understand where the dog shooting comments come from. It's sure not an issue in our area.

see that's just it. If it was legal here then it would be part of our local culture. But it's just not, not by our own choice but by our local rules regulatins.

It would add one more eliment of interest to our hunting, I can only assume & immagine all of the changes & challenges it would bring wich would add to the experince.

I read about guys working with there dogs for so many different things. I lived in north carolina while i was in the service so I became used to hearing the dogs working & seeing hunting dogs during deer season. I read about guys using there dogs to run big cats & bear.

I think it's all pretty cool. We just can't use dogs for deer in MN, that's all.

I don't think anybody was bashing the use of dogs here...Some areas Like MN and WI that type of hunting just isn't legal.

Sorry,

Dave beat me to it.

99
They generally don't flip right over when gut shot. Magnum or not.

I assume I have hit him well as I normally watch the reaction and them until they fall. Stand or blind hunting allows an easier shot most of the time if you are patient.
Last year I had my wife shoot her buck twice because I wasn't sure how high or how far back the bullet was . He went about 100 yards, stopped, then started walking toward the fence and brush.
She hit him again to make my life easier. Weak little .270.


stumpy

Jeff, that reminded me of a buck I shot about 15+ years ago. Jumped two nice ones out of a planted pine bottom. The lead deer was bigger , but the second deer was a piebald that looked remarkably like an appaloosa horse. Couldn't keep my rifle from moving to him as they ran up the far hillside.

Unfortunately, I blew the shot and hit him in his 'back shoulder'(love that term). Not only that, the slug went through and blew off his 'jewels'. There was nothing left but the upper skin of his scrotum.

He tried to keep going but was only able to make it a few more yards, then he just kinda stood there all scrunched up (as you might expect) while I settled down and put a finisher through his neck.

Now THAT must've really hurt!

I'll go for the heart and double lung shot every time.
A fast steppin .277 caliber 130 or 140 grain bullet or a fast steppin .25 caliber 100 or 120 grain bullet thru the heart and both lungs will put a deer on the ground real quick, IME.

I will usually try for another shot if its offered. Deer are usually in thicker brush but so far they have all left good blood trails.

You should have seen my first buck antelope. 14 year olds don't have patience for schit. I hit him the first time tight behind the shoulder, he humped up and trotted about 5 yards and stopped. Hit him again about the same place with the same reaction. Hit him again a little lower(just over the heart) he humped up hard that time and I figured I was hitting him too far back. Aimed in FRONT of his shoulder and broke the base of his neck. You could cover the first three shots with the palm of your hand. I bet it took all of 45 seconds from the first shot to the last. LOL Still don't know how he kept his feet with 3 130 gr. 270's through his lungs.

I bet you were using factory ammo and the shot was well over 100 yards.

Not exactly. 130 gr. nosler solid bases(my dad's favorite at the time) over 58 gr H4831. Kinda had to dig to find that one, written in a Speer #4 manual.

The goat started at about 125 yards and died at around 150, if memory serves. Still my biggest to date- 15 5/8 & 15 1/2 with good bases and cutters.

Hmmmm, I can't explain your experience.
Your load should be traveling about close to 3000 fps at the muzzle. And at impact it should enough energy to turn the heart and lungs into soup.

Soup is too nice a word for what that bucks chest cavity looked like, as you can imagine. There wasn't much left. Never seen anything like it since. I don't expect to see it ever again. Just one of those things I guess.

Having grown up where hunting with dogs was legal and people in general had enough land to do it I have a few observations.

1. If you shoot a deer and double lung it - it won't go far.

2. If you double lung a deer in front of the dogs you can sit where you are and listen to find out if it went down or not as has been my experience the dogs will be all over it once it goes down and you can hear them.

I also wonder when people say "in front of the dogs".....in my experience deer were normally shot way out from the dogs. Never really out in front like say a rabbit.

Maybe we just did it different/wrong/right.

Around here we really refer it it as blood soup. Sometimes with that shot they will not bleed much.
A few years ago I shot a 120 lb whitetail that was running flat out with a handloaded 140 gr Hornady SST that was chorno'ed at a little less than 3100 fps. The range was about 50 yards. At the shot the deer slided about 5 yards on it's bellie and rolled over on the entrance hole and went into a death spin throwing blood and heart/lung tissue for 10 feet.
The bullet made a .277� entrance hole between the ribs. The exit hole was measured .402� and it also between the ribs.
I bought my first .270 Win a little over 10 years ago. I bought my 2ndn.270 Win 6 years ago as a backup. I have been very happy with both of them. Nothing I've shot has traveled staggered more than 15 yards and most just fell over into a death spin.

NathanL,
Yep, you are right on all three counts.

I grew up hunting in East Texas with dogs.Killed my first deer in fromt of dogs and always enjoyed it. Hunting deer with dogs has been outlawed here for years now but I havent forgotten how. Always used a shotgun with buckshot back then.Guess we didnt know any better, but I do know I never stopped shooting until the deer was down or out of sight. Then you waited on the dogs to get there and catch. Fond memories but I now think I must be gettin old

That's been my experience also, maybe a 15-20 yard wobbly stumble then a dead deer. That goat was the most amazing display of "packin' lead" I've ever seen, and that includes a fair number of elk. Like I said I don't expect to ever see the like again.

A whitetail that is double lunged will go as far as 60 yards or so. He will usually travel down hill if he/she can and generally leave a nice pink blood trail. I also understand they get very thirsty very fast so down hill to water if the blood trail can't be found. Since there is not much in the pleural cavity you can usually expect a pass-thru of about the same size as the entrance hole.

Mc

Ah... yes... ouch.

The things we do to deer, in the name of killing 'em...

this doe went 45yds through some really thick brush. there was lungs and blood slattered 15 ft back from where she was standing.200gr accubound at 170yds

Too funny Bill, and pretty much my experience. Tried once at one about 100 yds out on afterburner, don't expect I'll try again.

In answer to the original question, no, if I were sure of my shot I probably wouldn't fire again. I usually don't get the chance, I hunt in pasture land that is broken buy lots of mesquite and cedar, it's never far for them to get to cover. Happily as others have said a bullet through the lungs and they don't go far. I set and watch for a while, maybe 10 minutes, then go looking, usually they're no more that 60 or 70 yards.

Oh, yeah, it's not legal to hunt with dogs here and we have a few ferals around so if I saw a dog chasing a deer I might just take a shot at it too.

Seems like most of you are referring to fairly close range shooting. I've found that shooting a deer thru the lungs with a cranked up NBT at normal woods range usually has a stunningly impressive result.

When I started processing deer, I was amazed at how little meat is on an average white tail deer's shoulders.

The only time I will hit them in the lung now, is to beak the shoulder on the off side. Otherwise, I shoot them through the shoulders. I have had deer run 200 yards shot completely through both lungs. In some cases, lung shot deer were very difficult to in thick woods. I learned my lesson on lung shooting deer.

If you are concerned about the meat on the shoulders, you should be saving the meat on the neck, and almost everyone throws the neck in the garbage.

Wrong again. Looks like you are in the back straps and hams only catagory. miles

I have to relate an experience I had about twelve years ago. A Fallow deer at 120yds, 162gn Sierra ( 7x61 S&H ) I held and hit well and the deer went nearly 80 yds. Not to difficult to understand but the bullet angeled through (as it mooved away from me) and broke the near side lower shoulder bone took the top off the heart and about 2 1/2 inches of the off side shoulder bone was gone. It ran with only meat and adrenalin keeping it upright. They can be unstopable till death overtakes them, unexplainably so at times.Von Gruff.

Jeff,

When I look at the photo of the deer it doesn't amaze me that he ran 200 yds. The shot is (1.) too high for a good lung shot (2.) too far back for a shoulder shot..and (3.) too low for the spine. I think you were lucky to hit him with a 358 to have a hole as large as it is. My guess is that if that shot was with a small cal "hard" bullet he would still be running! I believe that most of the tales of "I can't believe he ran so far" are, in fact, bad hits with the wrong bullet. Lung tissue, as you know, is not very dense..sponge like and filled with air. It is very vascular, and it is somewhat like a tree with the larger vessels at the base of the heart and then branching out to much smaller vessels in the perifery..so, the higher the shot the less damage is done. One thing that helps the hunter is that bullets that enter the pleural cavity most often cause pneumothorax (collapse of the lungs) from the loss of normal negative pressure that keep the lungs expanded..so that's a + for larger caliber holes in the chest. Just my views on "lungers"..

Art

VonGruff,

Can't figure out how you hit both shoulders and the base of the heart at the same time?

Art

I will lung shoot almost any deer/elk sized animal and know it will die and soon. I shot this antelope with a .270 using a 130 grain combined technologies bullet. It was facing me when I shot her and I intentionally shot her between the front legs. She ran like there was no tomorrow and turned into the fence, hitting it so hard, it flipped her completely backwards, note the hair on the ground.



The second picture is what was left of the heart. The lungs were jellied. It is my observation that you shoot it in the lungs and then hope it runs into a fence and breaks its neck.

Thumper I should have said the high leg bone just above the elbow and it was the top of the heart not the bottom. A walking animal that has one leg forward and one back can get it through both them and the heart. I know this one did.

Von Gruff.

+1 on that experience...

CLB

About 10 years ago I hit a doe in the Richard Droerer Hardwoods in SE Minnesota. Low double lung shot with a .50 cal round ball. She bolted into a hay marsh in the bottoms so I just sat back for 20 minutes. When we went to blood trail her there was a six foot wide swath of aspirated blood through the grass. About 150 yards in, she popped up right in front of us and put on another 150 yards at a dead sprint, spraying red mist the whole way. So we hung back for another 20 minutes. When we crept up on her she was still wheezing and I had to put a finshing shot in her. When she was dressed out it was a total mess, the near rib had been broken and pushed fragments into the lung. I should have waited longer for her to bleed out.
All that being said, I have seen poor hits drop deer dead in their tracks and great shots that let deer run for miles (I'll save the tale for my dad's heart-shot Ten Mile Buck for another day)

Same with a Partition

And Core-lokts or SGK

I have to say that most of the deer I shoot, I get a pretty good look at the heart/lung area and put a bullet into the top of the heart. I stand and still hunt, so the deer are usually not spooked and usually at fairly close range. I have shot them with stuff ranging from .257 Roberts to .30-06 with some 12 gauge slugs thrown in. A great majority of them have just flopped over dead. If it is undisturbed, I think the shock will kill it sooner than later. If a deer is running and is lung hit, it may take 5-10 seconds for it to exsanguinate (bleed out). A deer can cover a lot of ground in 5 or 10 seconds. I do remember one I shot at the edge of a field in about 8 inches of snow. It ran into the woods at a full gallop. After following a two track blood trail from the pass-through shot that my 9-year-old could have followed, we found it about 100 yards down where it had run full tilt between two trees and got stuck. That deer just didn't know it was dead.

If I don't hit the heart, the actual cause of death is usually a pulmonary embolism caused by blood clots from the lungs getting to the heart. Next time you gut a deer, open up the heart. You may very well find a large clot that caused a massive heart attack. This will stop the flow of blood to the brain, which will kill the deer faster than if it just bleeds out.

BTW, it is illegal in Wisconsin to shoot a dog even if you find it running deer. Of course it is also illegal to shoot the wolves here, but I have heard rumors of some of them getting shot. I think some people would shoot a dog on sight if it was chasing a deer up here, but most would either not shoot it at all, or put one in front of its nose to scare it off.

Fast Ed

Laffin . More pics of the rifle though, I'm jealous even though it is a .270

You guys do realize this thread is over 2 years old?

Don't care, as long as there are pics of things killed with nice rifles I'm pretty satisfied

I can respect that

This one ran about 50 yards after I poked him with a 168VLD from a 7WSM at 243 yards.

.264 Win Mag, large (bodied, crappy antlers)mule deer 130 Accubond, going fast, 190 yards, ran 30 yards



.264 Win Mag 100 grain ballistic tips, antelope don't run very far with these in them:





.264 140 partition whitetailed doe, running shot sort of driven by other hunters:



More lung shooting, this one just staggered around a bit when shot:

My favorite shot:

Broadside, tight right behind the shoulder, double lung, complete pass through, good short blood trail!

You get one shot here...it better be good.

Bruz

very rarely does a deer I shoot take more than one shot. the few times it has, the second wasn't needed as they were hit well and were still on their feet by chance. I have never tried to put a couple shots in the rump for good measure or otherwise. tends to take away from the whole shooting an animal for meat thing. but thats just me. the couple of times I have shot at a running animal was either I knew I could make a good hit, or it was wounded by someone else and they enlisted my help in getting it. but in regards to the lung shot question, if I see its a good hit and know its a good hit, I won't shoot again, unless the animal is headed for some nasty terrain and need to put it down before it reaches there, happened once with an elk. most deer I shoot drop really fast. but I use a .243 mostly so its expected

If I see the impact is solid on a doe I usually just start to slowly follow her up. On a good buck, I'll try to double tap him if I have the opportunity. But in the thickets and such, one shot at an animal is what I typically get. I not a fan of shooting at running deer in thick brush.