I've been hunting ol' Mr. Whitetail for almost 60 years now... and shot about all the deer I ever wanna shoot, so I go to deer camp more for the camaraderie and to get out in the woods than for the venison.

Since I've gotten old and turned into a "lazy hunter"... I'd like to use the deer's fine survival senses to set up my sons and Grandsons to get their venison and antlers. I've been pondering a plan to put into action... an idea I've had for quite a while now.

But let me set the "scenario" for ya... and then, I'd like you truly "experienced" fellas to give me your best thinking on this "plan".

Since I really don't care whether I shoot any more deer, I was thinking that if I go "on-stand" UP-WIND of a well-used deer trail and move around a bit, due to my arthritis, while leaning back against the base of a tree because I get too stiff if I don't move around a bit... and I like to smoke my pipe now and then... the wily ol' bucks are gonna either see the movement or smell the pipe smoke and circle down-wind around me in order to get to the place they were going. And that's ok... 'cause that's EXACTLY what I want 'em to do... circle down-wind around me, then come back up on the trail and try to keep on goin' to where they were originally goin' !

So I figure if I put my sons... and/or my Grandsons further down on that deer trail, those wily ol' bucks will be keeping their attention mostly on me and circle right up into the boys 'cause the younger boys CAN sit still, use all that "no-odor" stuff or "scent-killer" stuff... and none of the sons or Grandsons smoke.

And so... by using the deer's own senses and their pile of "dirty tricks", I can "guide" those big-antlered bucks right square into becoming the winter's venison roasts, steaks & "jerky"!

BUTTTTTTTTTT... how far downwind and around do those buck "circle" me before coming back up on that well-used deer trail to get where they were originally headed??? Maybe 100 yards? Maybe 200 yards?? Maybe 300 yards???

In other words, how far should I tell my boys to set up on a stand further along on the well-used deer trail so when the deer spot or smell me, I can get 'em to circle around and right into my son's and Grandson's waiting rifles?!?

If any of you truly experienced hunters have some idea of how far most bucks circle a potential danger, I'd surely like to hear 'em... and I appreciate your comments, but please don't just "guess"... if ya know, say so. If ya don't know, then don't offer a "guess"... 'cause I can "guess", but I'd really prefer getting some actual KNOWLEDGE about this.

I'll "Thank Y'all" ahead of time and sincerely appreciate your answers.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

One at 40.3yards and the other at 147.68yards. If the winds shifts at all during the day, and will they be above or below you, you may have to go back and adjust their positions. Plan on moving more than you like.

I have no experience with Ohio Deer, so perhaps I shouldn't have replied.

Well, being an experienced hunter if not an expert I will absolutely tell you that it might work.

I have come to the conclusion after all these years that a durn deer knows more about what it has on its mind than I ever will.

IOW he going to do what he going to do and there ain't a lot I can do about it.

BCR

Interestingly enough, I've employed a similar tactic in the past. Had a climber in a spot that the old buck kept blowing me out of on a regular basis. On the advise of an older hunter, I hung some sweaty t-shirts and socks in that location and moved my stand about 75 yards down wind and got that old boy the very next time the wind was right. I've used the tactic more than once since then and it produces the desired result more often than not. Of course - it can depend upon your visibility, alternate trails leading to the new spot, etc but it's a good tactic to try more than once.

Glad to know some wise ol' hunters have thought and/or used the
SAME idea... and I'm starting to get a "feel" for how far down the trail to "spot" my boys...

Keep those experiences comin'...

I can see it working, but I wouldn't bet much on it consistently doing so.

Wind shifts, other hunters moving into the area, different trails, other Deer interacting with the chosen ones, and Deer just being Deer, they just may go investigate Dad or Grandad instead. Deer and people in Ohio interact on a daily basis. The scent of humans doesn't necessarily send them back where they came from.

Much better to spend ones times teaching the kids how to hunt than trying to scent push Deer to them.

The sons know all the "dirty tricks"... and the Grandsons are learnin' 'em... I just wanna be "useful" and play a "dirty trick" on the deer in return for all the dirty tricks they've played on me.

That's the whole reason for this inquiry...

This idea is for hunting in S.E. Ohio where we use muzzle-loading rifles and the terrain is more like W. Virginia or Kentucky (few people, hilly and rough) or hunting outta my bestest hunting buddy's cozy deer camp up among the mountain laurel on the High Plateau in the Moshannon State Forest in N. Central Pennsylvania where we use center-fire rifles. Not a lot of people (other than hunters on Opening Day) in those parts the majority of the year.

Enjoy your time with the kids.

Here is a little trick I have found "seems" to work sometimes.

A small fire is often a curiosity to Deer. I've seen them follow a smoke trial right up to the source. Keep the little ones warm on a cold day and say to hell with the wind.

Yes... it's more important than the boys realize (but I do) to spend some "woods time" together...

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... never thought of that "fire-smoke" idea... thanks... and the "little ones" are BIGGER than me, but it's not a bad idea!

It all depends on the lay of the land cover escape routes draws and so on. I am the old man in my group and I use this tactic and it works not all of the time but it works.

Nothing is fool proof but it does work. Another one I've used is to go into a stand with a friend and than have the friend walk out. Thankfully the deer have not learned to count. I've gotten a couple of old does that kept busting me that way.

Or if you feed deer, than get a routine. Same time and same route, never hunting on the same day you feed. When your ready, follow your routine and leave. Than sneak around a downwind route and get in the stand. The deer will think you left and not be as worried about your scent. The sneak route has to be a good one though.

Keeping in mind you might be UPwind of the deer, but you'll be DOWNrange of the youngsters................ Make danged sure they know where you are, to avoid mishaps.

Give it hell Gramdpa good luck to the boys .Have fun

I have never tried this on white tails, but it worked well on our western blacktail in dark timber. The lead of three hunters would slowly walk a logging road into the wind with the two partners spaced about 200 and 400 yds behind. The leader seldom saw much while the trailers picked up crossing deer in short order.

Similarly, on whitetail drives in WVa as a kid, the savy silver headed hunters would follow the drivers of organized hunts. They typically picked up the larger sly bucks working their way through the crowd by using the drainages. At days end we would often sit and watch an edge that a crowd had just put a drive through. I was always amazed at the number of deer that emerge from a patch we had just worked.

I've been circled by as much as 100 yards.

Easy.Just Give Your Stand.

Ron_T - if you put your plan into action you'll probably end up shooting the biggest deer of your life... The father of a buddy of mine shot his biggest while smoking a cigarette and running a chainsaw. He had his rifle along just in case he saw something on the way in or out, and the buck just walked up to see what was going on when he was cutting wood.

I'm not sure if I understand it... If solid scouting reveals a deer trail where deer routinely travel and are usually expected to be on/near that trail - why would you need to be upwind spreading scent and/or noise around? Aren't the deer going to be on the trail your scouting found anyway? For trail watching I don't think I understand the strategy. The least disturbance is the best IMHO. For drives and to slowly push deer out of thick cover and the like then sure it makes sense to me. But I ain't no expert or nuttin' like that.

I hunt in an area of big woods.
In my expirence,if you spook them,they are likely gone in a different direction entirely,than circling and continuing on the same trail.

I have spooked them and had them try to circle around me and again I have spooked them and never saw them again. ever. miles

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What you write is absolutely TRUE, but in this case, my goal is NOT to shoot the deer myself, but rather to cause the deer to circle around me (due to my fidging, etc. which I do more and more as I get older) and walk into my son's and/or Grandson's rifles further down the well-used deer trail while the deer are still concerned and semi-occupied with me and making sure they have successfully sneaked around my position.

Thus, their attention is "split" between me and what is ahead.

Hopefully, that "split attendtion" will be enough to cause them to become somewhat less wary about coming back up on the trail since they may believe they've "by-passed" the real danger (me).

It may sound silly, but after a good many years of deer hunting, I've been thinking that a scheme like this just might work. Thus, I posted this question and you can read the answers for yourself.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Here as trick that I have used after 45+ years of hunting whitetail I listen to more experienced hunters. Specially from differant areas.

Ron,
I don't want you to consider my post as a challenge or anything of that sort. I offered an opinion to consider or dismiss as you please. You of course will do as you see fit and I wish you much success and a safe hunt.

MOGC...

I thank you for your thinking for my cause. I don't consider your comments a challenge at all, but rather all you've done was what I ask of you... and the same thoughts go for Miles Patton's comment who's perceptive posts I've read for several years here on the "Fire".

The same also goes for all the other gentlemen's posts who have been so kind as to add their thoughts... I appreciate their posts as well.

The area in Pennsylvania where we hunt 'most years (the Moshannon State Forest up on the High Plateau in North/Central Pennsylvania) is heavily hunted by a multitude of hunters on Opening Day and then, the hunter population thins out considerably after the first two days of the Opener.

In fact, I've made it a habit to go to my stand an hour before sun-up on Opening morning... and STAY PUT all day. I don't go in for lunch because I don't think it's very "savy" to be walking around in the woods with the one-or-two-days-a-year hunters in the woods from whom I've heard talk (at restaurants or bars) about shooting at "sounds" or "movement" in the woods.

Such "talk" (serious or not) scares me and I'm almost FEARLESS!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I used to do this when calling crows as a kid. One of my siblings would walk with me to where I was setting up at the edge of a field then would walk back home by themselves. I'd start calling as soon as they were out of sight. Don't know if it really worked or not but I killed a lot of crows

I would look for the secondary trails the ones I call the buck trails not the heavily used doe trails. Set the boys up on these then enjoy your pipe and watch the biggest buck around follow the smoke trail right to you.

No expert but I do know enough to never make any predictions on deer behavior, at least not any hard and fast ones.

I feel it all boils down to the pressure of the area.

IME in thick high pressure areas you'll rarely if ever see an older buck once he's been spooked by human odor. In open low pressure areas such as the midwest or Texas, you may see the same buck daily even if he gets spooked. Around here you are very lucky to see them once after finding their sign and if they wind you, you can hang it up for that deer(for that season).

I don't know so much about being circled by an older deer(youngens will). The big boys usually get out of dodge once they smell you. Sure, they'll return, but they will avoid an area many times.

I KNOW the answer. It dpends. The question is site specific. You know better than any of us how to hunt it. The deer you hunt know all of that land and will use whatever cover/route to escape a predator is convenient. Remember, deer are like us, lazy. They will prefer a path or least resistance if possible. Push em slow.

My Dad and I hunted together until he was 84. He sat on a stand smelling like Ben Gay and smoking his hand rolled cigarettes.
He saw more deer than I did. Most walked right by him and more than once he said drag that one..referring to the bucks he shot @ 50 -100 yds

it depends on the cover. i have seen wt in east texas forests and big muleys in co. circle me to get back on their original track. they were far enough through the timber i could only see a piece of them move at times- like they knew how far to keep fom getting shot at. i guess most people would never have seen them.

Ron_T,

I ain't no expert, but that said, I have been sort of using this tactic. My Father-In-Law is a great guy, nut one of theose peeps that is in love with the CONCEPT of hunting, but lack the ability to apply the basic fundamentals. he will not sit quiet nor still, and the makers of calls are having thier portfolio stock raised by him, he buys every one known top man!

I usually set him up some where near a trail....then hun about 75-100 yds away, my back to him, with a small terrain feature, like a small hill or finger of a creek or somethig like that between us.

Last season I passed on three small does that were obviously avoiding him on three different hunts, so I have seen the basic concept that you are using work

I have been hunting the deer in 4 southern states for 46 years. I didn't even see any deer the first 2 years. I din't kill one until my 5th year. The older I get, the more deer I kill. I had to spend a lot of time listening to older hunters and learning from them, so that I could understand the deer as well as the terrain, weather patterns, reading sign, etc.

I didn't go to college until I was 38. A lot of the younger students wanted to learn how to hunt deer, and I bought a home and some property in GA near the campus. We would set up drives when the pressure drove the deer to go nocturnal. If we were short of standers, I would set out dirty, sweaty socks and tennis shoes at both ends of the edge where the clear-cut growth changed over to open field. It was hilly ground, and I would direct the standers to setup over looking the gullies. Since I was driving the thickets with my sons, it didn't matter that I had the smell of the socks/shoes on me. There were several good deer killed using this approach. As the deer headed for the corners, they would wind the stinking socks/shoes, turn toward the center to avoid the roads on either side, and turn toward the center and the gullies where they could slip through unseen. Some did manage to slip through and were seen, but too late to take a shot. Me and my sons wore plenty of orange, and as we got close to the standers, we would back off so as to avoid any mis-haps. Even though I had coached them well about safety, I didn't want to chance any buck fever accidents.

Deer are always hard to figure, but sometimes you do have to pull out your bag of tricks,or go without meat. With 4 kids to feed, and many students who wanted to try venison, I definitely needed the meat. We had a blast, killed many deer, and I made a lot of friends for an older student. They nick-named me "Boomer" cause I taught them to shoot too, and I am a baby-boomer. They also elected me to be the President of the Student Body during my Junior year. And I thought it would be hard to make friends at college cause I was older. Hunting has always been a blessing to me, even during those first 5 dry years. I always enjoyed those days afield with my elders.