Okay, so a 223 is an effective deer round. Why is a 22-250 not more of a good thing? I know barrel life is an issue but you could down load a 250 to 223 levels when you are just playing around. Is it mainly ammo or brass availability/economy since the 223 is Uncle Sam's pick?

no one said it isn't.

most folks I know have a .223, 22-250 isn't nearly as common.
220 swift should be even better then right? again, not nearly as common. So one could conclude that if the .223 is effective then others in the same family of cartridges would be as well.

.223 is cheap to shoot and common so it often is the standard so to speak when discussing the .224 centerfires.

it really is that simple

Logistics and the fact that less is often more. Enough is enough

223 , price of brass and availability, more reloads per pound of powder, as a deer round the 22-250 will walk on it

bea - your sig line is really funny. That dog have any pups?

The .22-250 was possibly the most popular wildcat in its day - in fact Dad had a ".22 Varminter" Mauser built for it in the 50's - which we still have, and it still shoots well. I am told the shoulder angle is 3� different than the .22-250 Rem. But they were almost all made with 1 in 14" barrels. Most .223's today have at least 1 in 9" or faster twists, which is beneficial to shoot heavier bullets. Even though the .22-250 will run ~300 fps faster, there's not much practical difference.

My #1 .22-250 will shoot the 53gr TSX well, and I'm sure would kill deer just fine, but longer bullets would be iffy in it.

I nearly grabbed a Cooper at one point, that was a .22-250 AI in a 1 in 8" barrel. That would be a very different animal.

The .223 is more versatile, but when I picked I went with the 22-250. Yes it will wear barrels out faster and it's louder but those are concessions I make because I like the increased speed.

When building for my son I went .223 just because I knew he was going to have his one rifle to do everything until he gets older. With the reduced muzzle blast of the .223 he can shoot steel/gophers/prairie dogs for a long time and not get tired, and it works great on deer as well.

But for somebody like me that has multiple rifles for doing different schit, I like the 22-250.

This is all assuming you're doing a build so you can have fast twist barrels either way. If I had to buy factory I'd go with something twisted 1-9" in the .223.



Travis

Lots of reasons, most already listed and none of them are arguments against the 22-250. In the end, the .223 gives you the most for the least.

if i had to choose a 22 caliber deer rifle i'd go with my 221fireball. i don't think any of them are enough gun for big deer. sure it will kill them but not a ideal choice in bullet weight.

What's an ideal bullet weight?

The one I use, of course�..

Says the master of the cryptic non-answer. Were you this useless in your working career? I'm sure they don't miss your azz.

I love the fact that almost anything I say pisses you off�

HAHAHAHAHA

Well played. That is pretty much where I currently have one of your fellow MT azzwipes currently, and apparently you as well.

Is there any way I can get past the 'almost' and have everything I say piss you off?

Since my impetuous youth is a distant memory, probably not.

I had to try�..

I understand.

Back to the topic...I have a 223 and a 220, and I do presently think that the 223, with proper twist, is the better deer rifle. Simply because of the improved bullet choices. That's why I'm considering a new barrel on my 220, so I can shoot a 60 gr Partition or a 65 gr Sierra GK.

I wish he did

I have one of each. They do different things. There will always be room for both.

I like the .22-250 more because I feel it is more versatile thanks to its added power and range.

I'd be interested in seeing one of the ballistic chart comparisons showing the added range. It seems the faster twist available in the .223 with higher BC bullets would catch the 22-250 at long yardage.

So getting a faster twist barrel in 22-250 would require a custom build? Seems all the usual suspects have 14 twists.

Bingo, MOST 22-250s and 220 swifts that I'm aware of are 1:14 twist, most commercial 223s are 1:12, then with the AR craze and options, you can get 1:9 or 1:8, (TIKKA offers bolt action 1:8 - I have one)
60 gr Nosler Partition and benchmark powder, I shot exactly one deer with mine, not impressed, won't do it again, unless I had to.

The high BC bullets out of a .223 will easily trump the low BC bullets out of a 22-250. Especially on a windy day.


Travis

I believe Savage offers a 1-9" twist.

So yes, you'll need to build.



Travis

Ruger, Kimber, Salvage, and Remington all offer bolt guns with a 1-9" twist and chambered in the .223.

Georgia deer are tough. You gotta bring enough gun.


Travis

Let's hear all about your 22-250.



Travis

That's a good one!

The thing about Georgia deer is that back in the 30's and 40's, most of the native stock was wiped out by screw worm infestations. Screw worms are the larvae of some kind of fly, best as I can recall. I think they named them this because if a deer got stung by one of these flies, it was screwed.

Anyway, at some point, the screw worms were eradicated. Then, the game and fish people restocked Georgia and a lot of other southern states suffering from the same malady with deer from northern states.

This means that our deer, like many of our people are Yankee transplants. Like their human counterparts, they are not that tough, just hardheaded as hell, and attitude is everything. Unless you hammer them right, they will argue the fact that they are dead with you by running off into the briars, swamps, and pine thickets just to be difficult. It is sort of like when you try and convince a human Yankee that Obama sucks. So, a lot of folks feel more comfortable with bigger cartridges.

I am somewhat bummed that I am limited to a Salvage in 22-250 cause I am too cheap to go the custom gun route. I was thinking that a Barnes in 22-250 would be the way to go but all of them require fast twist. Regardless, I learned some stuff in this thread. But, being from the South, I might not remember much of it after lunch.

You can shoot the 53gr Barnes TSX out of a standard twist 22-250.

Might not work on Georgia deer, but it works in most locales.


The fiddy-three is a killer.



Travis

That is good to know....thanks.

If I get one I will only use it when I go over to South Carolina to hunt.....just to be safe.

It will shoot out of a 1 in 14" barrel. Even if the gun has fancy wood

The 60gr. Hornady SP will stabilize and kills stuff dead as well. If you can find some.

Have fun and GFY.




Travis

Works even if the gun has non-fancy wood!

Now this is a thread that interest me. I have 223's with 8,9 and 12 twist, I have a 22-250 with an 8 twist.

After having and liking both very much I prefer the 223 overall for the following reasons.

Availability (I was at Walmart tonight and they had lots of 223 ammo and no 22-250 ammo, I then went to Academy Sports same deal lots of 223 including 8 different "deer loads" and no 22-250 ammo at all.)

Economy (223 brass is cheap heck even free most of the time. Primers no advantage either way. Powder same in both but it goes further in 223. Finally, bullets no advantage except the 223 works better with soft bullets it seems.)

Accuracy (it's easy to get the 223 to shot great with any bullet, the 22-250 has took a lot more effort. Even after more load development my 223's all out shoot my 22-250.)

Fun (The 223 is just more fun to shoot. Neither recoils much but the 223 is still less. Less noise in 223. Bores never seem to foul in 223 which means less cleaning which I hate doing by the way.)

Effectiveness ( The 223 is just not that far behind the 22-250 even with heavies in both rifles. At short range I think the lower velocity of the 223 is an advantage as it penetrates more and seems to get more exits. At best it seems the 22-250 has a 100 yard increase in effective range. I'm comfortable with the 223 to 200 yards where 300 is my limit with the 22-250. Others might use them further but these are my comfort zones.)

Granted I don't have much as personal experience with the 22-250 and do with the 223 but this is just my opinion and experience of the two. I'm not getting rid of either but limited to one it would be the .223 for me.

Reason #1: Because Kimber doesn't make a .22-250 Montana.

Riiiiiggggggghtttt





Inq:

That isn't another deer that just fell over in shock due to your awesome 6 ft 5 hunters presence was it?

I hear the deer in Montana shake in fear at the mention of your or Travis's names...

That part is true�..

I�m right there with ya.

If I want more than what a 223/223 AI has to offer, I want more bullet. So I�ll happily step up to a 6mm of some variety.

I actually prefer my 220 Swift, but I own more .223's than any other rifle calibers I own, due to the number of AR-15's I own. But if I didn't handload, .223 would be my first choice for Varmits due to the ammo availability. JMHO, though.

Both are illegal for deer in my state - 243 Win meets the minimum standard and is a much better small deer rifle. I've never been tempted to try and take a fairly large animal with a little bitty .224 bullet but maybe it's because I hunt in the mountains and prefer them to drop stone dead where they stand with a 150 gr NBT in a 7mm Rem Mag. Those smaller calibers are much cheaper to shoot that is for sure. I'd always go for a 22-250 if I were really trying to kill something.

Wow. Nice, informative post. Thanks.

I said the same, but in a 2 sentences. Funny how folks love long answers.

Yep, the thread should have been locked after your first reply. I notice your post count is upwards of 65,000. Given that level of production, I am grateful that you were able to find time to spare a couple of sentences to help me out.

8.7 on the burn factor.


That was pretty good.


I shot my first deer about 24 years ago with a 22-250. 14 twist, believe it or not the buck died.

Thank God I wasn't into 800 yard sniper style deer shooting back then....grin

Yes, you and Rancho Loco have a penchant for quickly saying NOTHING.

Who's the pivot man, you or Sam?

Weak.

I'm sorry, did take a pee finally post some pix?

Camera must be broke down again........grin



Damn what a nice afternoon here today.

You MOFO's should be thankful that I deign to grace this schidthole with my posts. You should have to PAY for my pics.

You'd think that someone who has done as much as you have claimed, wouldn't be so bitter..

Awesome weather.. I wonder what the losers in Atlanta are doing?

Wishing they was here!

73 degrees, sunshine, nice breeze ion the goph killing fields today...

Who's bitter? If'n I was a broke-dick MT carpenter though, I might just be.

Not quite. The vast majority of MT sucks donkey balls, IMO. You bastids have a "draw" for damn near everything you have out there to hunt. In GA, AL, and TN, we have "hunting season". You jackwagons have "hunting week".

If I ever leave the SE, I might stop in ID, maybe, but I'd likely just keep headin' north.

laughing

Sounds like the losers are crying!

Uber-laffin' here�.

Clueless as ever.

Snap a pic of your 22-250!


Travis

What 22/250?

You're uber-quick.


Travis

why choose on marginal deer round over another?

LOL

Combined with a

You won't!

Guess you not compared the options and lengths of hunting seasons between MT and ID...

We have no hunting seasons in Montana and all the game has been decimated. Don't come here.

I am OK in GA cause the limit is 12, but you can only kill two bucks. 223 is a piss-ant cartridge and Barnes copper bullets suck badly! Why it takes several seconds for a deer to die shot with a 223. I am thinking to go 30-06 a reals man's cartridge this year.

Sorry I missed this post, your welcome. Scott is right however, he said the same thing in two sentences...

You know what I meant....grin

Yes Sir

Bought like the difference between the .22 short and the .22 LR. Both will work if conditions are "perfect", but niether is "right
" prop

Nice to see the idiot ain't left your body.

We're so glad we have you around to build us all up coach.

At least use a 243 win.

save the 243 for elk, deer are easily killed with a .224 of any variety

^^^^^^^^^^

This

How many large whitetails have you killed? Over 225 in weight and 160-180 score wise, age 6-8 years old?

OK guys lets get back to the answer. I have a Ruger American Predator in 223 on a brown truck. It has 1-8 twist rifling. Ok so what is the choices of best bullet to use for deer. Thanks for the help.

Geez.. how many tags you get a season?

Three bucks per season and up to to does per day. Season is about 90 days long. Also one deer in another state.

Off hand I can think of at least a dozen, thats just a start..

I like any of the TSXs or TTSXs�.


Lots of other good ones out there now too...

OK, appreciate it if you could list 7 or 8, thanks,

The heavy weights work better with the 1-8 twist?

They ALL work in the 1 in 8 twist�take your pick.Im shooting 55 TTSXs in my 1 in 8

Extra weight does not necessarily equate to extra penetration with TTSXs, Ive shot a literal ton of game with the 50 grainers, and never recovered one�.

I've got 55 gr. TTSXs ready to try, more 65gr. GKs that I know work.. Wanna try 70 gr. VLDs, 55 gr. Horn SPs, 60 gr. BTs, 64 gr. Power points..

55 and 60 gr. horns work and so do 64 pp�.but Id be a tad skeered of a conventional CNC bullet in a 1 in 8. Mine spun a petal off a TTSX going through a javelinas tiny little brain. Petal ended up in a shoulder, rest of bullet still flying around somewhere I suppose�.

Horn 55s work good in a 1 in 12�.

Ive shot lots of critter with TSX and TTSX out of a 308 and only recovered one, which went through 4 feet of wild boar. Ill try the 55 gr TSX bullet and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestions.

I'd UBER say heavier always trumps lighter because the 53's and 55's have been recovered by this guy at less than UBER range.

GFY.


Travis

OK we have a heavy weight and now a lite weight (opinion). Who is who?

I'd say you have ample opportunity to start testing..

Tom is right just about everything works in a 1-8". I've used the following.

53 TSX
55 TSX
55 Sierra GKHP
60 partition
63 Sierra SMP
64 nosler bonded
64 power point
65 Sierra GK
75 swift

Funny thing is they all worked fine in my 1-8". Lately I've been using the 64 Nosler's the most.

62gr TSX/TTSX

Ill shortly be trying those in that 1-10 twist '250 RAR we discussed some time back.

It'll be interesting to see how they shoot as Barnes's states the 62 TSX needs a 1-9", and the 62 TTSX needs a 1-8". It wouldn't surprise me if they shot just fine, keep us informed please.

I believe some folks 'bad experiences' with Barnes are when they are marginally stabilized. You just can't spin them too fast and mo spin is better.

For long range shooting in the west and where deer or coyotes are the game I will take the 22-250'every time. I consider 300 yards a long shot if the wind is blowing or an animal is moving in any significant vegetation. I agree 400 is not long range off a bench but standing 30 ft high in a windmill or on the side holding on and shooting through it without hitting stabilizing structure or from the ladder up the side of a pump jack at 20 feet is about all I can handle.

Federal lists their 223 55 gr sp at 3240 fps and the 55 gr sp 22-250 at 3650 fps. That's 410 fps faster. Energy at 300 yds is 500fp vs 620, which is 20 % more than the 223.

200 yd sight in is 1.5 in high at 100 vs .9 in high for the 22-250 which leaves a little more than 5 in of difference at 400 yds.

I sight 2 in high at 100 with the 22-250 which leaves me about 14 in low at 400.

I use the 223 for calling coyotes at night as I won't be shooting over 300 and 1 in high at 100 allows head shots at night.

I sometimes shoot does with the 223 in the late doe season with 60 federal bonded NP. The same bullet in the 22-250 is death on deer to 400 yds.

The 223 is even weaker than the numbers above indicate if one is using a short barrel version in the AR platform and wind drift disparity becomes a real problem, for me anyway, at longer ranges.

Start slinging 75's and get back to me.

If I want to shoot 75's I will use a case with enough powder to move them out at 3500+..

Well said. I also have a Little Miss pre 64 fwt 243 who doesn't get enough opportunity.

The little 223 and 22/250 are not enough to kill a deer cleanly.

Only those who don't care or don't know would do it as a stunt.

Its been awhile since I told you this Don�


GFY

More people aren't capable of killing with 22's, or anything else for that matter, than what cartridges and bullets cannot muster.

Those who don't know, don't know much, haven't done much or call it stunt don't care....

I'll play...if only because this schit is so funny.

18" 223AI/75A-Max at 3050fps,if only to burn up some more '2200.





It's 300yd "energy" is 985 ft lbs or 50%+ greater than that oh so "speedy" 22-250/55gr's "advantage" cited. It'll make the cited 620# at 575yds,or nearly TWICE as far.

So much for Short Barrel Syndrome. Cheer up,I've got 'em(same chambering) in 20,21,22,23,24 and 26" too. Hint.

Be happy to talk wind too. Re-hint.

It'll reach 1100yds+ on the reticle alone and a mile easily. Re-re-hint.

I just don't know how them 75's would do on Critters.

Laffin'!

Boolits matter more than headstamps.

Just sayin'.










'Hunter,

Cite a 75...it'll be [bleep] funny.

Dare ya'.

Hint.










Don,

You poor poor stupid [bleep],you couldn't pick up a 75...let alone know what the [bleep] to do with it.

Feel free to conjure up some more Imagination and Pretend,then wax eloquent on all the things you almost did,the wares you almost did 'em with and the places you almost did 'em.

Looking forward to another Whine.

Bless your heart.










Hawk',

It's never been tough to cypher who shoots and who drools.(grin)

Stupid is always fun to watch

What you shooting to push 75's at 3500+?

A Goat [bleep] slow twist 243Win and Ping Pong Ball BC's.

Though I'll giver her another chance to flaunt her Imagination and conjure more Pretend,if only to knock it outta da' Park.

The silence,in fairness...is fairly [bleep] deafening.

Laffin'!

Steel, I didn't say I loaded the 243 to 3500 fps now did I?

So, what's wrong with pre64 fwt 243's if I may ask?

Boxer, the OP was asking about the 223 cartridge vs the 22-250 cartridge, iirc. But go ahead and live by the lie that the exception proves the rule. Oh, btw, did you call Federal and tell them their ballistic charts are pure BS? See if you can straighten them out, please. Of course you'd be doing the shooting world a real favor. Eye

I have one of each as well.

Faux TI in 22/250 with 53gr TSX for deer and a heavier 700 223 for range blasting and such. The 22/250 makes a better platform than a 223AI for deer.

This coming from the same fullah that states a 257Roberts isn't enough for deer as well.

Why do you need that AI going for you if 400 fps difference in velocity in a 223 vs 22-250 is negligible?

His dumbazz don't own one.

Ooh Ooh Ooh, let me scoot to the edge of my chair in anticipation of what Take a Krap will say next. Wonder if his Volvo will make it to Idaho.

GFY, and my HONDA did make it to Idaho.

You saying your Honda is better than your Volvo?

You must mean your Honda 250cc. With baby ape hangers and tennis racket.

I'm enjoying this�.

'ball,

The 223AI is my Favoritest chambering of All Time...mainly because I've only had a couple hundred rifles to extrapolate and in a myriad of chamberings. You'll haveta pardon my being afforded the luxury,of not being forced to guess. Just sayin'. Hint.

My "trouble" is,that I shoot more than all you Do Nothing Drooling Dumbfhuqqs bolted together and I swoon the virtues of minimal case maintenance,as a by-product of case design. The 223AI is the free-est of lunches and kudos,for being devoid even the slightest of an inkling. Laffin'!

Should it fuel your Imagination and bolster your Pretend,I suffer the 75A-Max in a SAAMI chamber or two. 2925fps here,though I hear they are "suspect" upon Critters. Laffin'!



Hell...I've even seen me sling a SAAMI Self Shucker stoked with 75's.





GREAT time to extoll the virtues of a slow twist 6mm of any flavor and in particular,the 243Win. Here's hoping you've enough Imagination to Pretend I've never slummed a few.

Laffin'!

You Idiots are a [bleep] hoot! Who chews your food for you?!?

Wow +P+.










SuperKchunt,

Do tell about your "best" 22-250 Venison Rifle,in "action". Points awarded in advance for the pending humor of more excuses and a fresh batcha' Whine.

Go full Retard and say sumptin' about boolits too.

Laffin'!










SquatToPee,

PLEASE wax eloquent on the "advantages" of schit stock design,slow twist rates and feeding 308 length cases outta a 375H&H length receiver,as your Pre-64 Trump Card.

Then mebbe add a leetle sumptin' about the "advantages" of long barrels,CM barrels and Walnut stocks,you amazingly inept clueless dumbfhuqq.

Frost it copiously by reiterating how you are too broke and Stupid,to hang a pic.

Laffin'!

PS and by the way...you'll wanna remeber to always start by [bleep] yourself,if only due the fact that you'll get more poozy that way.

Congratulations?!?

Laffin'!










6mm,

Don't make her take her marbles and go home.










'gwe,

It never ain't not fair,to let them who "do" the least,Whine the most,then obliviously reiterate their Daring Dumbfhuqqtitude.

A 223AI AR-15 is the holy grail. Mag length 75's at 2950 with 15 down. Re-15 is your friend.

Boxer, you're definitely the greatest - [bleep]. Many years I have killed 20-40 coyotes, hundreds of dove and quail, many geese and ducks, 6-10 deer, several bear and elk with a bow and without a guide, and often a few turkey and deer with a bow.

I guess not too bad for only taking off 3 or 4 weeks a year and that includes hunting east, central, south, and west texas, New Mexico, Montana, and Colorado and BC, along with week long trips fishing for bass, crappie and catfish on several lakes, plus short trips for trout and redfish on the coast.

I had more to do than spend my life shooting or fishing. I much prefer being less an expert as evidently it leads to delusions of superiority. Some spend their life wanting to be hot chitt but they all end up being cold turds.

When I replied in this thread it was to the OP and he asked for opinions. I gave mine to him, not you. I stand by mine.

He did not ask how to get the hottest 223 on earth. I'm glad you have it, but I don't need it. My guess is, neither does he or he might have asked.

PS, why are you looking so pissed in that pic with your deer? Oh, I guess it's just your natural nature.

You'll hit on anything these days won't cha?

Laffin'

'6,

I hear good thangs about Krunchentickers.(grin)










'ball,

VERY much enjoyed both your Whine and the list of Excuses...that was some seriously [bleep] funny schit!

No schit,a [bleep] Bass,Crappie and Trout "report"?!? I'm [bleep] crying I'm laughing sooooooooooo [bleep] hard. You "hard chargers" are boundless in your daring "Adventures". Laffin'!

You didn't submit an opinion you Drooling Dumbfhuqq,you submitted STUPIDITY and you are the only one oblivious to that glaringly obvious constant. Congratulations?!?

I get a kick out of your none too envious plight,of only being in a position to guess,as a "best" case scenario and it's only [bleep] funny because it's the BEST you can do. Poignant,ain't it?!? Laffin'!

You'd do well to shut the [bleep] up,take notes and apply same,but I'm enjoying in advance the hilarity of your being too [bleep] stupid to even do that. You are in so [bleep] far over your head,that you should copy/paste/print this Thread and send it to The Guinness Book,for submission in their next Volume. I know,I know...you don't understand the "honor",but Sweetheart you rate it! Laffin'!

Enjoyed the "HOT 223" Chronicles too,that was a hoot to boot. PLEASE do not let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt,the next time you wish to reiterate why you are such a gawdamned painfully [bleep] slowwwwwwww "learner".

Do like SuperKchunt do and save the pic(s) to your 'bucket account,so you can eyefhuqq me right proper,as per your leisure. Points awarded for saying you don't!

Laffin'!










SuperKchunt,

I'll feign my "surprise" that your 22-250 Venison "experience" is well shy of being paltry. I'm happy to letcha' flaunt your Imagination and Pretend,as often as you deem requisite...which is of course right regular. Laffin'!

Always a treat to be regaled with all the things you've almost done,the wares you almost done 'em with and the places you almost done 'em. "Luckily" for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so you can "contribute" too,if only obliviously. Laffin'!

Keep lobbing plagiarized cartoons and "living" vicariously. Perhaps consider sending poor poor stupid [bleep] 'ball a PM and you can form yet another Axis Of Imagination and you two high-fallutin' phillies can mebbe go on a Crappie Trip and rub them "results" in everyone's noses. Laffin'!

You're [bleep] right,them puns is intended.

Google it.

Laffin'!

PS and by the way,exceedingly GOOD call,to refrain ALL things The Rifle. Mebbe go Secret Squirrel some more and extrapolate further,how your couchbound kchunt is "bait". Laffin'!

Bless your heart.

We have speckled trout on the Gulf Coast. We call them trout, but I have caught cutthroat in Wyoming and Rainbow all over and Kings on the Kenai and halibut off Homer.

So, anyone with less perfection or experience than you is a no killing hunter want to be? That means you barley make the grade.

We have speckled trout on the Gulf Coast. We call them trout, but I have caught cutthroat in Wyoming and Rainbow all over and Kings on the Kenai and halibut off Homer.

So, anyone with less perfection or experience than you is a no killing hunter want to be? That means you barely make the grade.

Again, you have NO concept of what a 75 can do in a 223. Well said was what required the stupid comment.

Apparently you agreed with WY about loading 75's to 3500 in SOMETHING.

Sweetheart,

Looonnnggggggg before you even begin to mouth the word "perfection" in your slobbering silence,you should aspire towards attaining a first [bleep] clue and you are light years shy of that most modest of "feats". Not that it ain't funnier than [bleep],when you feel compelled for reasons known only to you,to perpetually reiterate that most glaring of facts. Congratulations?!?

Ain't it a fascinating constant,that no matter where you go and no matter what you are doing,you remain an INCREDIBLY Clueless Dumbfhuqq?

Very GOOD call,to again go right to Whining and making Excuses,as opposed to trying to say sumptin' about a rifle or it's boolits. That is of course,the only move you've got and I find it curious that you wish to "flaunt" such amazing Dumbfhuqqtitude,as being your Trump Card?!? Bless your heart.

Again,who chews your food for you?

PLEASE do not let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt,as you are really doing "great". Perhaps consider going SuperKchunt on the whole scene and mention that your being a life long Clueless Boob,is a Secret Squirrel ploy and a form of "entrapment". Laffin'!

I'm not sure how this works,but you either plagiarize a pic,lob a cartoon or threaten Imaginary Pretend Ignore...though in no particular order. Laffin'!

Where do you AMAZINGLY inept Drooling Dumbfhuqqs come from?!?

Just [bleep] WOW.










Steelhead,

It's gonna be hard to pry "243Win/75's" from her quivering hands and trembling lips. Laffin'!

For some reason,the "hard chargers" cain't wanna touch either a chambering or boolit...but went WFO on the Whine Machine and Excuse Factory.

Mebbe if I say I don't shoot anything in 6mm bore size,it'll make 'em a touch more brazen?!!

FUNNY schit!

Steel, show where I discussed shooting a 243 at 3500fps or be guilty of bearing false witness. Don't mention you don't worry at all about that as it's obvious. Pull your dimocrap shat of accusing and repeating it rather than having the balls to admit your lie.

I have wood stocked guns because I like them, as I have those of composite materials.

Ya'll just tell Rick others don't need to pontificate on the 223s and he can save bandwidth.

As those who PMed me last night said, there is none like Boxer to ruin a thread.

Boxer, I feel sorry for the life you were raised in. It's a bitch to live it overcompensating for a deep seated inferiority complex.

Have a good day playing with yourselves.

'ball,

I'm crying I'm laughing sooooooooo [bleep] hard...as I'd forgot to mention the "option" of the "dreaded" Secret Squirrel PM Rally for Clueless [bleep] Window Lickers. PLEASE tell me you and your Imaginary Friends are now in the Planning Stage(s) of a BWT,that will incorporate Crappie,a Trout and perhaps some Mall Ninja'ing as "vindication" of a life long affliction of being Clueless Dumb [bleep]?!? Laffin'!

Again I'm forced to feign my "surprise",tha you went right to [bleep] Whining and frosted same copiously with a fresh batch of Excuses,glazed oh soooo obliviously with more Imagination and Pretend. Congratulations?!? Laffin'!

Might I suggest that you keep telling yourself that Nothing is "something" and that your incredible STUPIDITY,is someone else's "fault"...if only to keep salving the realities of your Reality. The poignant profundity is indeed poetic and it's just a shame that you haven't the 17 IQ points requisite,to savvy even an inkling. Bless your heart.

For some reason,I don't feel compelled to apologize for the luxury of not being forced to guess,while a guess is your "best" shot.

Funny how it actually works. And I mean [bleep] FUNNY!!! Laffin'!

Wow +P+.

As an aside,feel free to wax eloquent upon why it is,that you most clueless of [bleep],go right to cramming things in your mouths and azzes and get horned up so easily?

Other than of course,to stay the course with that which you know best.

Laffin'!

Sweet Jesus, did you come out of mommy's cunny stupid or did you work at it?

You agreed with Wyomingwhateverthephuck when he said if he needed a 75 he's pick a case that could push it at 3500.

I asked the [bleep] question WHAT are you using to push a 75 at 3500.

Damn, it's tough discussing shiet with idiots.

Happy Canada Day Larry!



PM sent!

Steel, here is my post. I said the man spoke well, indicating there are other ways to shoot 75 gr bullets. Then , I said I also have a 243 that I don't kill enough stuff with. Remember periods, and I am not referring the one each of you are presently suffering through. A period ends a sentence. After a period, there is a new sentence. The new sentence added that besides having a 223 and a 22-250, I also have a 243. You ASSUMED I load my 243 to 3500. Keep ASSUMING. Come on change the subject back to worthless wood stocked rifles.

SuperKchunt,

Only a buncha Frogs would get giddy at being herded into a single lump of schit and getting presided over,by British Rule. I know,I know...Crowns horn you up too.

Congratulations?!? Laffin'!

I'll feign my "surprise",that you skirted ALL things The Rifle. Laffin'!

Looking forward to the next compilation of things you've almost done,the wares you nearly did 'em with and the places you damned near did 'em.

Don't forget to curtsy the Queen...you queen.

Laffin'!











'ball,

Wax eloquent on your highly touted Pre-'64 243Win...with ANY [bleep] boolit and I'll happily take the time to rub your nose in your Stupidity. Go out on a limb and muse it's mount,rings and glass too. Laffin'!

'Course I'll make it look easy,if only because it is.

Laffin'!

I'll toss you a cookie,in that boolits matter more than headstamps. Hint.

Bless your heart.

Stink, I can tell by the slope of your greasy forehead that your mom and dad were first cousins.

SquatToPee,

I realize that your "knowledge","experience" and "results"...precludes you from saying anything about The Rifle in the first hand,but it sure do open up ripe opportunities for you to chime in with your Cousin [bleep]' Stories. Congratulations?!? Laffin'!

I know,I know...you sent 'ball a PM,you are too broke/Stupid to drive a camera and that one time at Band Camp you stuck a flute in your poozy.

Laffin'!

You "hard chargers" are a [bleep] riot.

You're such a damn retard, stink. Eyeball went to school for a LOOOOONG time to learn to preserve the most precious sense a human has, and a damn slope-headed Uncle Fester impersonator who saws trees for a living has the temerity to call him "dumb"?

Is this one of those Tuff fast twist............





kinda threads.

I understand doin' fer deer with one of those Dick Deadly black rifles......



and I can see doin' fer hoglets with a 45 gr. TSX at a moseyin' 3100 fps out of a 1 in 16 twist oldie.....



But what about dinks with a 40 grainer out of a wood stocked WAM'mer in a 12 twist 20 Cal, at 3,800 fps????




quien sabe?


GWB

SquatToPee,

Your Daring Dumbfhuqqtitude is never not hilarious! I realize that all 17 of your IQ Points are satiated,basking in the knowing glow of both Obama and his Wife having graduated from Harvard. You'll haveta pardon my being afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess,that the World is chockfull of "educated" [bleep] Idiots...despite your being impressed so incredibly easily.

Now as to 'ball,she is indeed an amazingly Clueless Dumbfhuqq,none of which has anything to do with her "schooling". It is simply a function of her talking out her ass,about the things she "knows" the least about,just as you do. So I reckon you feel compelled to pull for a Window Licker,if only because that's your MO. Congratulations?!?

I'll haveta feign my "surprise",because both you stupid [bleep] were gonna extoll on the "virtues" of a 375H&H length receiver shucking neck down 308 hulls,the "attributes" of schit stock design(s),CM spouts,lazy twist rates and the like,due your amassed "experience,"knowledge" and "results". Prolly a real GOOD time to go FULL Secret Squirrel and exchange PM's,so as to make an epic "stand". Laffin'!

I'm [bleep] crying,I'm laughing so hard...you poor,poor Clueless Kchunt!

Get some!










Gee,

Kudos on your never ending quest,to bring the Indoors,Outdoors.

You knocked it outta da' Park and perhaps consider going Secret Squirrel too and send poor poor [bleep] stupid STP and ,ball PM's,so you gals can go fence hopping together and correlate "all" them years of "experience".

Laffin'!

You Drooling Dumbfhuqqers are a Treasure Trove of amazing Do Nothing Dumbfhuqqery.

Wow.

Bow Wow..........





Well,
ta' heck with the warm gin, pass the tequila.




Best,

GWB

Did I miss any of you geniuses telling someone that high twist rates are required for 77's to shoot well ?



Speak oh lips that never lie..

total bullshite

Guess again pencilhead .... British rule over Canada ended a looong time ago and what's left of their influence here is nothing more image of the queen on our currency and a footnote in our history.

Your country on the other hand recently freely elected this guy as your current commander-in-chief ... TWICE no less!



I should have figured you for a liberal with the welfare and all.

Laffin'


Except for when when it's a 22/250 compared to you beloved 223AI, right Capt 1/2 Pint?

I'm gonna have to come here more often! I've pizzed on myself twice laughing so hard!!

I too love it when threads stay "civil".

'shooter,

Funnier than [bleep],that anyone would get giddy about an SMK,especially in .224". Boolit Length dictates minimum twist rate,not weight,but you can only do your "best".

The 77 less can'olure...is represented.

Hint.



Keep guessin'...it's funny.

Laffin'!










'myp,

She ain't been Outdoors in decades and is simply an Addled Clueless Kchunt.

As a BEST case scenario.(grin)










SuperKchunt,

Do tell what a "looong time ago" is,in Frog Years. It'll be funnier than [bleep]!

Right proper Dichotomy ain't it,that no matter who's mug hangs over the front door of the White House...there ain't never been a King or Queen,no matter how much you use your Imagination,to Pretend otherwise.

You'll haveta pardon money growing on trees. Laffin'!

If only to fuel your Imagination,to bolster your Pretend...I don't shoot much in the way of .224's: 22 Hornet,K-Hornet,Deuce,223,223AI,224Wby,22-250,22-250AI,Swift and CHeetah. Hell,I doubt those chamberings have accounted for much more than 50 rifles. So you'll haveta pardon my being afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and being able to extrapolate side by each. Funny how it actually works.

As an aside,when you shoot your Imagination,just how "loud" is it?!? Laffin'!

Mebbe lob a cartoon,plagiarize a pic and send a PM or two...or simply make some more Excuses and Whine a bit more.

One thing is for certain about you "hard chargers" and that's when it's all said and done,there's gonna have been a [bleep] of a LOT more said than "done". Laffin'!

Bless your heart,you are doing "great".

Wow +P.










'hern,

Fairly certain I've howled myself.

Few things more entertaining than The Paper Hat Brigade doing their "best".

FUNNY schit!










dooshmike,

These Window Licking Do Nothing Day Dreaming Dumbfhuqqs are on FIRE!

Luckily for them,Imagination and Pretend are free.(grin)

Boxy - just expected that you custom barrel guys might remind newbies that longer bullets may need more spin than the factory pipe they have. Common place to think about a taller powder column and not twist when thinking heavier bullets.

Come to think about it, I don't remember anyone mentioning that 22-250's tend to blow up more on close shots so the bonus speed might be a negative.

We shoot just a few off those 77's in high power, just a couple.

I'll let ya get back to yer, phonics for cursing now.
Laugh'n too

Stick are you still moly coating these days? I picked up a kit years ago but never got time to screw with it. Did you ever notice better long term performance from better neck release due to less bonding?

'shooter,

Few things die easier than paper. Hint.

Now no matter whether OEM or Custom,the relationship in stability remains factored upon the same constants and them mainstays are boolit length and twist rate,though atmospherics,with a sprinklin' of velocity can of course have a hand in either direction. An increase in rotational velocity and impact velocity,do reliably arrange a boolit's mettle to be tested and in a non-lineal fashion. For the savvy gent with a clue,such things can be reliably counted upon,to Deal Death in sinister fashion. Lotsa nice things start to happen as defaults,as BC is increased and projectile integrity is given a thunk in conjunction,then brought to fruition upon flesh/bone. Hint.

Is there boolits that'll zook on Critters via 22-250? Yep. Are there boolits who will reliably harness same? Yep. Are there boolits who'll happily digest the 22-250's innate velocity threshold and an increase in rotational velocity,due the fact that it can be had in more than (1) twist rate?. Yep. Are most Mart-Mart Factory Loads for same,a series of heavy compromises in regards to terminal affects,on Tagged Critters? Yep. Do alotta them boolits behave in superior fashion upon like Critters,when squirted outta a SAAMI 223? Yep. Such constants is obvious,for them who shoot more than a smidge. Hint.

I have heard of moly. I would suspect that it's greatest attribute is a looooonggggg constant interface betwixt POA/POI,less [bleep] around with a cleaning rod and there's no CBS "weirdness",which is nice on Tags because "foulers" and "sighters" ain't options. Story goes that when one feeds nice brass,through nice bushings and incorporates .003" constriction,that long term ES/SD values diminish and their consistency is in fact more consistent,as a function of numerous things. Key factor being,elasticity is more of a constant,when cases ain't work hardened in schit dies,to schit dimensions. I've less than zero interest in a crimp and am prolly a fan of nice propellant densities,kissing,finding pressure and rocking in. Hint.

Good talk.

Laffin'!

PS and by the way,moly is hygroscopic and no good in a moist environment.

Re-laffin'!




(addendum: regarding glass)

Pard brought a NightFarce BEAST/MOAR to work and it is the phoniest piece of [bleep] schit I've ever seen. The reticle sucks,the whole ocular swings with a "swiveling" cap to compensate,the 2-speed erector is a [bleep] joke,the rheostat sucks ass and it is such an epic fail...that it's hilarious.

Just sayin'.

He brought a Kahles 6-24x K624i too and it's a far better set of designs,yet still easy to pass on.

Yeah that's what I found too - brass hardness is a bigger factor in accuracy than most folks think. Especially if you use Lapua brass which is hard to begin with.

I picked up a Giraud Cartridge Case Annealer last year and it did help my groups squeeze down. I like the solution because it auto feeds, and there isn't any putting one on the turn table BS like other Annealers.

On the bullet performance - I don't think many guys ever calculate the RPM's the bullets are doing.. if they did they'd understand a lot more about why bullets deflect with sticks and such. But the key point there is bullet construction & range matters. I still remember a "long range" guy popping a lope at close to 45 yards with a 300 mag, with a Nosler BT that "would perform well at 400+... IIRC they were 150's.... aka SMOKIN!
Pretty cool how big the hole was.

I'll have to think some more on the fouling shot issue and Moly. I tend to shoot my gear and not clean it before the hunt so normally I'm worried about cold bore vs. warm bore. Still got that virgin Lyman Moly kit in the loading bench somewhere... I might pull it out one day.

thanks for the moly feedback.

Giraud Annealer link - http://www.giraudtool.com/annealer1.htm

This sucker comes in very handy when prep'n for Pdog shoots.
I can load her up with 200-300 round very easily.

If you already have a 700+ dollar scope on your Pd rig, this will help you tighten up groups more than 1,400$ scope will.

Last year I moved to Nightforce benchrest on my longer poke Pdog gun with some 123 grain scenars.. (260).. all good!

with the NF beast for a mere $3300 you get a wobble in the ocular as you focus the scope and for no extra charge???

He's referring to the power adjustment. The entire ocular moves to adjust power. The BEAST was designed for a specific section of users and was not made for hunters. For what I and my teammates do there is not another scope that I would rather use. That includes Hendsolt, S&B, and most definitely Kahles.

The BEAST's eye-relief and eyebox,is a [bleep] joke at all powers and pales horribly to the Kahles and a "lowly" 10x MQ Fixed [bleep]. Just got done spending an hour in observation with the POS and it is an epic Goat [bleep],as a bare minimum.

It is an over engineered Mall Ninja Window Licking [bleep] Show,with enough stupid schit bolted to it,to make a hilarious April Fool's Joke. Trouble is,I've a hunch that NightFarce weren't trying to be funny...which is of course,why it's sooooooooo [bleep] funny.

Will set 'em all up again tomorrow and dabble a buncha more objective eyes through the works,but the BEAST is simply a POS and that's being kind.

The BEAST is the Cough Silencer of scopes.

Just sayin'.

Haha. You may be right. But the only real things that I care about are zero retention and tracking. For use on modern SWS- FFP, mil/mil, Horus reticles and a max power of 20x or so is a requirement from .mil. S&B's QC has only went down. Hensoldt's are starting to go down about as much and cost $6k. Personally I would have preferred a 5.5-22x50mm F1, but they had a reason for building it the way that they did and it wasn't their idea.....

B'

whatcha' think.



Cooper Classic model 38, made in 1999. Serial number VR1 (supposedly first one made by Cooper in 22 Hornet), 19" barrel, Burris USA 4-12 mini, WAMs, Schnabel fore-end, 6 lbs 8 oz with scope and best of all, a fast 1 in 12 twist.

Betcha it will mosey out and do for Texas dinks and oinks to 100 with a 45 gr. TSX and a CNS.....

Born to be mild.


GWB

RJY66: I have seen MANY Deer killed with the 223 and many more kilt with the 22-250.
Both are very capable Deer cartridges when used with due care and vigilance!
No reason to pick either if one lives within eachs limits.
Keep after'em.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

'sus,

I ain't guessin',that is for certain. Will try and take pics today and add some Goat [bleep] BEAST perspective(s).

There's numerous routes to POA/POI sanctity,in both the long and short terms. I'm as anti-Horus as they come,as it's akin to a [bleep] throwing a handful of his schit at a window and folks on the other side clapping their hands,at the "splendors". Jip Jappery and Fluff,sure as [bleep] ain't my gigs and the BEAST is overfilling with both. But it IS [bleep] funny!

I'm also amongst the last to get horned up on X's,if only because less is more.

NightFarce sooooooooo dropped the [bleep] ball.










Gee,

Windage adjustable mounts,Burris,CM and Walnut.

You just KNOW that POS will [bleep] float.

Never been around a Hornet,do tell.

Laffin'!










VG,

I just mighta seen a coupla .224" boolits intersect with Venison and as per always...boolits matter farrrrrr more than headstamps.

Tough to whoop a handy/dandy 223AI with 75A-Max at 3150fps,as it's a sensational blend of portability,balance/handlling,performance,logistics,rounds in the belly and of course Precision. That velocity threshold don't tax said boolit to the point of coming unhinged upon Tagged Game and the reliability factor routinely blows minds.

Though it ain't like I don't have a herd of 22-250's and 22-250AI's,in twist rates from 7" to 16"(experiment).

Just sayin'.

Well I'd say pick the 223 if you have 223 ammo, because 22.250 ammo won't fit in there... and pick the 22.250 if you have 22.250 ammo, because 223 ammo will go in there, but I don't think you'd be happy the first time you pulled the trigger...

Boxer, have you tried the Bushy LRHS yet? I abide by KISS and I'm liking it and would be interested to hear your opinion. They can be had for $1K. 1 year no questions asked return policy from Bushy. Can't go wrong. The best deal going in my opinion.

The reticle is not nearly as "busy" in application as it appears in drawings. I actually like the circle. The one complaint is that they went too thin on windage marks, they are tough to see in anything but perfect conditions.

I have not.

Dabbled pretty hard with the NightFarce and Kahles yesterday,with a 10x MQ Fixed [bleep] thrown in the fray for giggles.

Had numerous folks test drive 'em and everyone hated the NightFarce's fickle nature,in regards to eye-relief and acquisition of a full field of view. The Jip Jappery Fluffy Frosting accompanying the POS,goes without saying and the MOAR reticle sucks heavy ass. Though in fairness,the glass itself is rather nice...but it is a schitty parcel in which to tote crosshairs.




The Kahles reticle is vastly [bleep] superior,both in it's ability to hold hard and subtend sizing...as well as hold off.

Pard wanted to ear hole a Caribou at a mile. 20X.



Coupla thousand Caribou kicking around,but current ceiling is on the deck. If/when it breaks,we'll [bleep] around some more.

NOONE would touch the NightFarce with a 10' pole,as the Kahles blows it outta the [bleep] water in mild mannerisms.

MOAR(20X) on the same herd,setting along the frozen shores of The Milford.



10x MQ in heavy mirage.



Flare was a real bitch,as the light became more harsh.

All this schit makes the Fixed [bleep] looke even better.

Hint.(grin)








(A 'dog 'dendum)

20MOA of subtension [bleep] sucks and isn't enough to do schit with...even on a Snowy Milford Owl.(grin)



The Kahles has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more available on the windshield and then some.

Hint.










efw,

The 62TSX is KING there. Great blend of integrity and BC,which will shine brightly in 7,8 and 9" twist 16" spouts.

I've all them T-shirts.

Hint.

What don't you like about the MOAR? I have tested the MOA holds against the MOA adjustments and they are dead on. Obviously if you are a MIL guy instead of MOA it has no purpose though.

Anybody pushing monos thru an M4 for deer? I have one that my 9 yo shoots well & enjoys shooting. I have some 55 gr GMXs that shoot ok but the rifle doesn't like hot loads which I'd prefer with any monometal.

I did play a bit w/ the 70 gr Speer & Ramshot XTerminator & have an accurate load I don't believe is going too terribly fast. Is this an ok deer bullet when not stressed?

I have 65 gr Sierras & 64 gr Noslers, too.

Don't need anything slick but would like to give him best chance at a fun first experience.

Thoughts? She's twisted 1-in-7".