So the type of hunting that I do appears to be changing and I will be doing more brush hunting than in past. This isn't a bad thing and I'm sure that I will have fun. Right now I have a .30-30 that I've shot a lot but never used on game. It is smooth, reliable and very accurate with 170 grain Hornady round nose bullets. I have no worries about the ability of the .30-30 to effectively kill game. I also have no worries about my shooting ability. But due to my inexperience I'd like to hear from others about their experiences with how suddenly it kills. How fast do you expect animals to drop when hit with a properly placed .30-30 bullet? How much distance covered? How effective do you find it on big bodied deer? What I'm really looking for is what people have found to be normal.

My shortest blood trails on average are with a 30/30. I hunt heavy cover mostly and shots are rarely long, and I wonder at times why I ever carry anything else.

I've lost count of the number I've killed with it, and one of my bucks this year was taken with the 30/30. Forty yard shot, high shoulder, down in his tracks.

Works well for me.

I have used the .30-30 quite a bit on deer and antelope... With good hits you'll have no problem.. as paint pointed out a high shoulder shot drops them right there.. A good chest hit they seldom go far..

some of the most decisive DRT's i've had on whitetails is with the 170 CL's. granted, the ones i am remembering were spinal/neck shots but impressive none the less. my son has knocked several right down with his as well. i can only remember one of his running about 75 yards and that was with a high rib shot under the spine. an old 336 turdy turdy with 170 CL's is a deer hammer.

every one Ive shot with a 30-30 don't go far.

+1

150 gr Power Points & RL15.

I have shot quite a few deer with the ole 30-30 over the years and have never had one drop in its tracks. All were good shots right behind the shoulders with exits,most all the deer ran at least 50 yds with the furthest running about 175. I would not expect to see a drt result with the 30-30 unless you make a neck/spine or head shot. I myself don't trust the ole marlin's accuracy to do a head shot as the best groups I used to get were about 2 inches at 50yds and 3-4inches at 100yds. Needless to say I don't own a 30-30 for that reason and rely on the 7 RM and the 300 WM for the DRT work, and have had excellent results with those two calibers.

Nothing wrong with the .30-30 as far at killing deer at woods ranges. You will not find any "woods" caliber rifle that "kills" any better.

However don't expect it to produce a lot of DRT kills unless you hit the spine. That's not what the .30-30 or any other relatively low velocity, heavy bullet round does best. Where they shine is in penetration and killing by drilling holes through vital organs from any reasonable angle. Deer will mostly die quickly from blood loss, but only occasionally will they drop in their tracks. Typically deer killed with "woods" caliber rifles run 25-75 yards (sometimes a bit more) before they fall....but they are dead as soon as they are shot, they just don't realize it for a while.

This is no problem if you can track well, but in really thick brush it can get tricky. A good blood trail makes tracking so much easier. That's sometimes a problem for the .30-30. It tends to be inconsistent about leaving a good blood trail....sometimes great, sometimes pretty skimpy.

Many who hunt in heavy brush, close range situations find that the bigger bore rifles do a much better job of consistently leaving a good blood trail. Rifles such as the .35 Remington, 375 Winchester, .44 magnum and .45-70 are useful at the same distances as the .30-30, but leave a better blood trail to follow when the deer gets out of sight before falling (and it WILL happen with all of them most of the time). In my experience the .44 Magnum and .45-70 do tend to "hit harder" and result in a visible reaction to the shot and shorter runs.....but not so much that tracking isn't still required most of the time.

If you insist on DRT kills, you'd be much better off with a round with more velocity such as the .270, .308 or .30-06 to provide more "shock"....but even then a dead deer will sometimes run a ways. There does not exist a rifle that will kill them "in their tracks" EVERY time....at least not one that can be shoulder fired.

What I've noticed is not so much what you hit them with, but where you hit them. I killed deer with 3 different rifles last year. A .243, a .30-30, and a .44 mag. All lung shot, all ran a moderate distance.

I killed a deer at the end of the 2009 season at a lasered 236 yards with a .30-30, the 170 grain Hornady went through both lungs, deer ran about 20 or so yards and fell over.

I've had two "went down so fast they disappeared" kills. One with a .300 WinMag at 40 yards, one with a .30-30 at the same distance. Both CNS shots.

Anyway, those are my experiences. The .30-30 is a reliable killer.

20+ years ago one of the hunting rags (Outdoor Life, Sports Afield?) had an article about dropping deer in their tracks. They did a survey type study and found the 150 grain .30-30 tops followed by the .300 Win Mag. I don't remember the order of the rest but it basically included the top 10 deer rounds.
Myself, I think there's too many variables to say one caliber drops them faster than another. Two examples come to mind. I shot a buck quartering to me with a muzzleloader loaded with a 350 grain .40 cal conical and only 70 grains BP that entered in front of one shoulder and exited behind the opposite. Dropped on the spot and never regained his feet. No bones other than a rib were hit. This fall my SIL shot a buck at 20 yards with a .44 Mag carbine loaded with WW 240 grain HPs through both scapula and he ran about 70 yards before falling. To my mind the reactions to those shots should have been the opposite.

A .308 would work better and be easier to carry.

Easier to carry? Strange comment.

Wouldn't that depend on the gun, not the cartridge?

What?

I've killed a few elk with the 30-30 not to mention several deer, an antelope and even a turkey. antelope went the furthest at 30 yards. 2 elk went less than 5 steps, bullet placement is key. don't hesitate to put the smack down on deer with it. all mine were bang flops on deer.

+2, and I have not noted a very big diff when the 150 & 170's are used. Two guys in the hunt club have and use them, one shoots each type bullet, both factory, deer in the 150-165lb range. Not so ironically, the guy using a peep seems to do a little better that the guy using a scope when the deer are moving, which in these pines they usually are, but that could be a bit speculative on my part (FWIW, they both now use scopes, the boogers)

On a side note, I find it interesting that the new 'hot' caliber for the AR-15 platform, the 300 BLK, seems to pretty much mimic the 30-30, just using spritzers................

it all depends... I"ve had some 100ish yard trails with the 30-30 over the years. NO big deal really.

If I had a need to not trail something, the first thing would be shot location over anything, its the ONLY reliable thing.

Then I"d add high MV into the mix with a barnes bullet.

257 wtby and 100 ttsx have given the shortest trails and even a bang flop from a liver/gut shot my buddy did with his last weekend. He stayed off the shoulder alright...

I've had some drop in their tracks and some run 50 yards or less. I love the old round and still use it some. My favorite load is the 170 Silvertip.

I have never shot a deer with the 30-30 that went more than a few feet, most down in their tracks

As he original poster I have to say thanks to everyone for the feedback so far. So far all of my deer have been shot with either a .270 or a .30-06 which has generally resulted in DRT or a run of no more than 25 yards although a couple went farther. I've shot black bears with .30-06, .35 Whelen, .45 Colt (carbine) and a .375 H&H. It's nice to see how happy people are with the .30-30, not just that it works but it seems to work to complete satisfaction.

With my transition to brush hunting a friend offered to sell me a very nice .444 Marlin and I was thinking about it for the sake of more DRTs and shorter runs after the shot compared to the .30-30 but now I'm not so sure it offers any advantage. Having said that some people seem to swear by the 265 and 270 grain loads simply dropping deer on the spot with great consistency.

I love the big bores, I truly do, and I've killed quite a few deer with them. The only ones dropped in their tracks with big bores (45/70, .444 Marlin, .375 Winchester ) were high shoulder shots. The other deer all ran a lot further than I thought they should have. Several were low shoulder and point on shoulder (quartering toward) shots and they still ran up to 75 yards away. Several of those I could take the front leg from the impact side and flip it up over their backs. That's how demolished the shoulder was. Dead deer either way.

I really like them, but on deer my experience has been they kill no better than the 30/30.

There is nothing wrong with the big bores, but as I pas 50 I think more about what kicks less than what kicks more, FYI.........

I've found that on heart/lung shots it's not unusual for a deer to go 25 to 100 yards no matter what cartridge is used. Neck, spine or taking out 2 legs is the only consistent DRT's I've seen. The 30-30 kills just as fast on vital shots as anything, it just doesn't have the range that more powerful cartridges do.

And, truthfully, a nice 30-30 (or 303 Savage) carbine carries very well.

That's basically my experience as well. Once shot a mule deer doe with a 200-grain .300 Winchester Magnum load at about 100 yards as she stood quartering away. Bullet was pretty much perfectly placed, and she made it 80 of my paces before falling. Hard to blame that one on not enough gun.

Killed my first deer with a neck-shot from a Marlin.30-30 48 years ago, and killed my last animal of this year, a Texas pig, with a heart from a Model 94. Both times the .30-30 worked--and has every time in between as well!

+2, put the bullet in the right spot and deer die, no matter what cartridge you are using, within reason.

I still love the 30-30 though I hunt with it very little now. The 170's always worked well for me. As for the big bore leverguns, in my younger years I decided a 444 Marlin was the way to go and would be better than the 30-30. Gun shot great with the 265 Hornady's I was loading but did not kill deer any faster. My shoulder after shooting 15-20 rounds at the range was hurtin though.

The biggest thing I have observed over the years as to a deer's reaction is the state the deer is in when shot. If the deer is being pushed and full of adreline, they usually go farther with a good lung shot than a deer unspooked and just moving along naturally, and there are even exceptions to that rule.

I'd have to check my notes to be sure, but I have taken 2 or 3 whitetails with the 30 WCF and none took a step. I took one more with a shot directly through the center of the shoulder, that went approximately 50 yards.

The difference? On all the bang flops, I used factory ammunition. Remington 170 grain Core Lokt Hollow Points. Many moons ago, VAnimrod pointed me in the direction of that ammunition, and I have to say he was absolutely right.

The deer I drilled through the shoulder was with a 170 grain Hornady SP Interlock, using one of my handloads.

Henceforth, if I hunt with a 30-30, I'll be shooting the 170 grain Corelokt HP.

Good luck!

Crimson Tide,

Nice to read your reference to the Remington 30-30 170 gr hollow points. I just picked up 200 of these bullets to hand load for my Marlin 30-30. The bullets were packed in Remington "Red" boxes.

Doc

My friend, you have 200 pieces of pure deer cyanide in your possession.

Cheers!

For the terrain in which you want to hunt, the 30-30 will leave you speachless it's so good and especially with those 170 grainers you have.

I dig the Marlin 336 and there are so many smooth, good shooting ones around my way there are days I wonder why I even screw around with bolt guns.

For the New England ridges and swamp basins I spend most of my time hunting in I could toss a nice fixed 4x leupold on a 336 and not worry in the least.

I currently do not own a 30-30 and I feel like I committed a crime when I sold my 336 many years ago. I need another! My friend ChipM has a sweet 336 that his father gave him with a small vaiable leupold. That rifle is a shooting SOB...

I have killed quite a few deer with a 336 in 30-30. Like a 30-06 or 308, behind the shoulder lung shots result in a 30-50 yard recovery. Shoulder and neck shots drop them in their tracks. Out to about 125 yards or so, it's really all you need.

I love my 30-30! I've got other calibers and hunt with them also but the 30-30 seems to do the job very well with little recoil. Both my boys killed their first deer with 30-30's this year. One deer dropped in his tracks at 45yds the other ran about 40yds (that shot was close to 90yds). Both were one shot kills.

Glad to see that there are so few who say the .30-30 is not a sure killer.....because it is at any reasonable range. The larger bore rifles will NOT kill any quicker or better than the .30-30.

As to the claims of DRT shooting with the .30-30 (or any other chambering for that matter), I'd never doubt your results....BUT....sooner or later (with any chambering) you WILL have one run. Maybe not far (25-75 yards) but far enough to cause a difficult tracking job in really thick brush.

I don't know what the "thick brush" other posters hunt but in the "Big Thicket" area of East Texas it means being able to see maybe 20 yards at best (less in many spots).There are other areas just as thick (in the swamp country of the deep south, mesquite thickets of South Texas, and I gather in some of the heavy thickets in the northwest...although I've never personally seen these). I'm not talking about "killing" (that's a given with any decent shot placement), but with "finding" after the shot.

The bigger bores WILL NOT kill any better and probably not kill any quicker (if they do it's too small to reliably measure), but they do typically leave a better blood trail. I never learned to love the .30-30 as some do....probably because I started at an early age hunting with the .35 Remington and .44 Magnum and always saw the .30-30 as a step backwards.

I've killed a few (maybe a half-dozen) with the .30-30 and never found it lacking......but never any evidence that would make me give up the bigger bore rifles either.

If you can track well or if your idea of "thick brush" is such that a run of 25-75 yards isn't a problem....the .30-30 will be deadly. It's all a matter of perspective.

It is not the "Big bores" that stop deer faster, it is the cartridges with more velocity. A few years ago I used a 30-30 to hunt with for the first time. I have owned plenty over the years, I just never hunted with one. It was a classic double lung shot with 170Gr Rem Corlokt (I swear by Corlokts). It took off throwing blood and headed for a deep ravine. I was really getting worried following it. It wound around and distance is hard to judge, but it seemed a heck of a lot farther than 50 yards to me. I honestly believe that was the farthest I ever followed a deer that was hit right. I have used what I call "Medium" rounds(.260, 7x57,6.5x55) and with lung hits there are pieces of lung laying where the deer was hit. I also use cartridges like the 7.62x39(With Corlokts), but usually head, neck, or shoulder shoot them if I have to anchor them on the spot. Nothing wrong with the 30-30, but as others stated, shot placement is everything for a short run. I realized it was a low pressure round, I just was not thinking at the time.

Big bores have not impressed me at all.

I run a 50 beowulf.. bought it for swamp hunting.... have yet to drop a deer with it.

Over all the years, even going to 300 wtby, the round that dropped the most deer, was my 243 and 80 grain bullets. The next one has been my buddies use of 257 wtby, while I have not dropped one yet with mine, except an accidental spine shot at about 350ish yards, they don't go far.

IMHO you have to have speed and lots of it, to get enough shock to try to drop em on the spot.

Its that or shot placement.

Go with that high shoulder that so many like for some reaosn, and you should break the spine every time or at least shock it enough to hopefully bleed out before the shock wears off.

I have used a lot of different rounds in 30-30.. the last being a 150 barnes... and its still been a typical shoot, run 50-100 yards and fall over round if shot through the lungs. Nothing wrong with that either, at least for me.

And any time you decide to use the most or more frangible bullet your odds go way up of closer to bang flops, but that makes sense, since you have multiple projectiles and do more damage. The trade off is how much meat loss? Some don't care, others do.

My next try is probably going to be shooting 80 ttsx in the 257 wtby. But as much as I've fallen in love with the 300/221 suppressed... I may rarely if ever pull the trigger on game with anything else unless I just really want to. Like New Years day... its set aside for the 32-20 if anything comes around...

Jeff,

I've been using the .257 Weatherby for a while now, and while I've seen impressive bang-flops with TSX's on pure rib shots, have also seen animals go a ways. One of those, however, was a pronghorn where the bullet apparently didn't open up much, if at all, and the buck went around 250 yards before falling. Lately have been using the 120 Partition at 3300, which so far seems to drop them quicker, but of course requires careful placement to avoid losing lots of meat.

By far the highest percentage of animals dropped with rib shots have been with Berger VLD's, from various cartridges at 2800-3100 fps. But even then an animal will travel a ways now and then, just like they will with any cartridge/bullet combination. Which is why I'm always skeptical when hearing about any magic combo, especially when the evidence is only 2-3 deer.

I killed probably 15 mule deer bucks with my very first rifle I acquired when I was 11 yrs old, a Marlin 336 30-30 and 165gr Core Lokts. That was up until 1976 or so when I realized the 30-30 was too slow and not flat shooting enough to be a good mule deer cartridge.

To calculate how far a deer will run when shot with a certain cartridge, subtract the normal powder charge from 100. The remainder is the distance a deer will run when shot with that cartridge. The 30/30 for example for example uses about 35 grains of powder, so a deer will run 65 yards. Some 338/378 Weatherby loads use 118 grains of powder, so they will actually knock a deer backwards 18 yards.
I know there were a couple studies done in Europe showing little difference in how far moose ran after being shot with cartridges from the 6.5X55 up to the 375 H&H but my own experience on three deer, one elk and a goat (he looked just like a bear, swear to gawd), I think my formula is more relevant.

Royce, my deer run slightly further, I use 29.5 grains of 3031, but if you add 30 and 31 together, it comes up to 61, so that may explain why some don't run as far as others...

Add 29.5 to that, and that explains why I had a bang-flop. But the moon and Jupiter had to be aligned, with the proper relative humidity.

My BIL killed his first elk with a 30-30, because that's the only gun he had. Wouldn't be my choice, but was impressed he didn't have to chase it across the county. I've hunted elk a couple times but never killed one. AS I recall shot was not very far but it did the job. Deer should be no problem with a decent bullet and shot placement. Never owned a 30-30, closest thing I have is a 35 rem. and never killed anything with it.

Damn near anything will drop a deer instantly with a pure lung shot once in awhile. I've done it with a .222, .243, .30-06, .30-30, 12 gauge slug and a .490" patched ball. It ain't anything that can be counted on with anything though and most will run a ways. Truthfully, I've found VERY LITTLE difference in how far the average death run will be with anything from .222 - .30-06 and the .30-30 does about as good a job of killing deer as anything .

Never shot a vld that fast.

On the 257, between a buddy and I we've probably shot close to 20 deer with it now, all same bullet, thinking MV was just barely over 3400 IIRC.

Don't leave lots of blood trails, never had failed to expand.

Can't recall one making more than about 50 steps, and lots of them can be seen from where they were standing once you walk up there, 20-30 yards away. Couple of bang flops. They are by far, for only abuot 20 deer so far, the round that the deer go the shortest distance that I've ever shot, but I have yet to experience the DRT.

The most DRTs still goes to my 243 and 80 grain bullets. Moved up to 100s and it fell way off.

As the caveat I"ve never been one to shoot bone if I could avoid it.

BTW how many years did I hunt moose in AK with a 30-30. Though it was an old 94 souped up to AI.

Never shot one, but had no qualms with it. Just knew its limitations and dealt with them. Had to add glass to it due to the thick brush and not seeing stuff in the way. I didn't like that, but I didn't want to have to pass a longer shot just because I wasn't sure.

35 Remmy w/ 200 gr RN corelokts

Vic in Va
Did you correct for the elevation difference between Montana and Virginia??? Makes a big difference-
Royce

I've come full circle on the .30-30 cartridge. I killed my first buck as a kid with the Winchester M94 that Dad bought for me the day I was born.

Buck was about 90-100 yards away and I shot him in the neck and he collapsed in his tracks. I shot several more with it and Federal 150 grain loads and none ran more than 30 yards or so.

Then I started believing the stuff I read in the hunting rags that the old .30-30 was marginal for deer, SYo like a dumbazz I started on the bigger,better,faster kick. (Kept the Winchester though)

Over the years I've killed deer with a .218 Bee,.243,.30-06,.308,.250 Savage,.300 Savage, .41 magnum and .45-70, Some dropped on the spot and some ran a bit but I don't ever remember a deer running over 75 yards regardless of caliber.

I would not use the .218 Bee again unless it was the same shot at 20 yards in the forehead. That doe dropped right there but I don't expect to get that shot very often if ever.

I've come back to the .30-30 in a Savage Model 99 and a .303 Savage which is REALLY close to being a .30-30 anyway.

Where I hunt these days I am never going to have a decent shot over 100 yards and the .30-30 excels for me without being overly loud or tough on my wrecked shoulder.

I've killed many critters with the 30-30. Kills were no different than 30-06 or 308 for me. Some were DRT, some had short trails. I distinctly remember 4 nice bucks I took with the cart and none took another step after the shot.

I once shot a ruffed grouse with one. Shot for his head, creased the back of his neck and knocked the feathers off, broke his neck, and didn't even draw blood. My buddy was standing right there, I picked it up and nonchalantly acted like I did it all the time.

I would use a 30-30, but the last one I got, I gave to my daughter. The one before that, I gave to my son.

If I wasn't comfortable with the cartridge, I sure wouldn't let them hunt with it, considering if there is any tracking in briars to do, I'd be doing it.......

Seems odd at first, but if you actually look at the facts instead of the legend it is a true statement. I own a dozen levers made by Marlin and Winchester in calibers including 22, 30-30, 35, 44 mag and 45-70. All things being equal, barrel length etc., levers tend to be among the heaviest repeaters. None of my lever guns are scoped, the lightest centerfire is a Winchester 30-30 at 6.75 lbs. The heaviest is the 45-70 at 7.5 lbs and the rest are all 7 lbs+. The 22's are lighter.

There are plenty of bolt action options weighing from 5 lbs to just over 6 lbs, and far more options for 308's with sub 20" barrels than 30-30's. My heaviest bolt rifle (300 WSM) is lighter than my lightest 30-30. With optics it is a touch heavier, but the rifle its self is lighter. All 3 of my bolt action, scoped 308's weigh the same or less than my 30-30's do with irons only. The Kimber is still under 6 lbs scoped.

Not taking anything away from the 30-30, it kills stuff just fine, but it ain't any better deer killer than the 308. And the 308 will do a lot more.

When I was younger, my deer rifle was a 35 Rem in a Marlin lever gun. Dad and brother both had about the same rifle in 30-30. We argued constantly over which was better, but the truth is that they are about equal. You'll get a good blood trail with either one. They will kill as well as any other caliber you use. The only reason I finally switched to a 270 is that I wanted more range. I was very effective with the 35 to about 150 yards, and it got iffier as I got further away than that. Longest shot with the 35 was about 270. Dropped him like a rock. Still, I wanted something good to longer distances. So buy the 30-30, make the rifle a Marlin, put a 4 power scope on it and make room in the freezer for the deer meat.

O/U 30-30-20 gauge



DRT Hornady Lever ammo 140 gr.

Shot quite a few with the 30-30 using pointy bullets in the single shot H&R Topper. Now to keep it simple use the Hodgdon LeverEvolution load with the Sierra 170 grain FN outlined on the Hodgdon website. Averaging just over 2300 fps. Quite a few drts with this load.

Starting to use the 160FTX load as well, but haven't shot it while hunting yet.

I use the Hornady Leverevolution ammo with good result. I usually find that I can throw a rock farther than the distance of impact to the fallen deer. That is plenty good enough for me. My old Marlin 336 is my favorite gun to hunt deer with.

I have only been on 2 kills (both 1 shot) w/a 30-30, Mine was w/a 170 Speer FP and the other w/a factory 170 gr. Rem CL. Both at about 70 yds, both through the top of the heart, neither left their tracks. I was impressed as I have probably seen 75 deer killed in my life and maybe only 10% died in their tracks no matter where there were initially hit or how many times.-Muddy

The older I've gotten the more practical a 30/30 has become...

its easy to place a shot for most shooters...

and a well placed shot from a 30/30 is definitely more effective that a marginally placed shot off of a bigger, or faster cartridge...

a big reason for this round and the rifles chambered in it, not disappearing decades ago...

90% of all game is still taken at 100 yds or less...right in the world of 30/30 distances...

if I could find a good shaped old Model 54 in 30/30, that would probably be my main hunting cartridge period...

the cartridges I do hunt with each season, are usually loaded to 30/30 speeds anyway, and they just fine... 200 yds and under...

If I may add my $.02: I've used my .30-30s since '75 when first stationed at FT. BENNING. It was the first rifle used for deer, and I haven't found any other cartridge/caliber that will kill 'em any deader. One thing most overlooked as to why it [.30-30] is so efficient at what it does is the bullet construction. It is designed specifically for its velocity range, and there is where and why it is so efficient. ALSO...

CHIP M; Right-on with the mood/demeanor of the deer at the moment of impact. It has the most to do with how the deer behaves when the SHTF for him. (think adrenalin dump when you are in high alert)

ROST495: NOT necessarily velocity, as you stated. Refer to .30-30 bullet construction comment above. Of course, higher velocity with lighter/ stouter constructed bullets in other calibers will create the same hydrostatic shock- perhaps even more-so than the .30-30, but the .30-30 does it at lower velocities with less(GENERALLY)recoil, depending upon bullet choice. and, as far as "Dropping In Their Tracks" is concerned; Every animal killed will 'Drop in their tracks' no matter how far they travel from where they are first hit. Picky? Perhaps, but the correct phrasing/terminology should be used whenever possible; Such as: 'Dropped where the were standing when hit' or something to that effect. 'DRT' is more correctly termed.

Blackheart; You got it right. 'nuff said.

Smokeeater2: You are very close: the .303 Savage and the .30-30 are identical (within .2-.3 grain,.5 at most) in case capacity. Find yourself some 190gr. bullets as used in the .303 Sav. and you can load your own ".30-30 Savage", as it were.

Chainsaw: Right on! Waitin' on my 150 gr. NOSLER Bal. STs for .30-30 (on backorder since July), to load for my H&R ULTRA w/.30-30 Heavy Barrel. Will try them in my Marlins too,along with some HORNADY 125&150 SSTs.

SEAFIRE: You are most correct. When hit in the chest with a well-placed shot, they WILL die: Some more quickly than others but they will die. And, not travel too far, either.

As an aside, I've shot only (one) deer at approx.35yds. with a 170 gr. bullet.... A 156 lb. (on the hoof)buck. The bullet went through both shoulders leaving a caliber-size hole in the near shoulder blade and a nickel-size hole in the off-side shoulder
blade. Took another shot to drop him. Since then I've used the 170s on the hogs on FT. BENNING and saved the 150s for deer. My hand loads (from a '70s DuPont IMR loading manual) give me 2426 FPS in my Marlin 336Cs over Oehler's 35P screens. Hold the chastising--- they've worked for me for going on 39 yrs. in the same 336s. (I loaded 500 rds. in '76 when I had the resources and time. I still have around 170 or so left. I have some 130Gr SPEER FPs loaded to 2716 FPS in the same 336s, and they are deadly on deer also,'cept there is a whole lot of Gawd-awful destruction to edible meat; I leave them mostly to the coyotes and other varmints. All-in-all, I've never had to track any deer/animal more than 10-15 yds hit with the 150gr .30-30 (170 on hogs) BUT.. I will concede "To each their own" and do not intend to press my findings/usage with the .30-30 upon anyone else.... Only relaying my experiences with this cartridge.

One last observation: If you choose to shoot your rifle with sights other than a scope...Do not denigrate that one or any other firearm as 'not accurate, or not accurate past a certain distance', or whatever. My 336s(both) shoot into a nickel at 100yds===>read that as 'covered by completely' with 90% of the loads fed through them. It just took time to find the right ones. In rifles from .223(4),.22-250,.243(3),.25-06, 7x57,.280REM(2), 7REM MAG(3),.308WIN(4),.30-06(4),.300 Wby.,.338WIN MAG,.444 Marlin(2),20Ga.SG,12Ga.SG(3), ALL of which have taken their fair share of deer... [Ga. has very generous limits, and there are families in need around here who readily accept any venison offered, so none is wasted] the .30-30 is the one with which I have taken the most game and the one which is considered first. I even have reduced loads for my .308s and -'06s to.30-30 levels,(w/.30-30 class bullets)
Say what you will about this venerable caliber/cartridge but it will most probably still be around and taking game when we are long-gone and forgotten.
If you have read this far without cussin' me out, I thank you for letting me give my $.02 worth. Be safe, Good Luck and Happy Huntin'.
WILL.

OP, please forgive the rebuild of your post.
But to address your questions clearly I want to be specific to each one.
As to how suddenly it kills, there is no way to calculate any sort of time frame. A calm deer, head down first thing in the morning may drop to a shot that a peaked nervous deer light stepping through dry leaves may bolt after.
To the speed of the drop and a "properly placed" bullet...your properly placed may be double lung, mine might be neck, someone else might try all shoulder... So 0-50 yards depending on eveness of terrain, vegetation and deer's attitude about the shot.
Here's my basic Tennant...
A 30-30 bullet is just a fast expanding 30 caliber, designed so as to provide expansion at lower than 30-06 or 308 velocities.
Every deer has a separate and distinct disposition built upon their exposures. Have they been shot at, hunted hard? Is it the rut, swirling winds, full belly, just rose from bed or out all night? Is it pasture or bottoms? Are there other deer around or is the deer alone?
All these variables weigh more heavily on the equation than that of a caliber.
Get as close as you can and pay attention to where the deer was when hit and listen to direction of travel. If you don't hear it crash wait a few minutes before tracking.
All pretty simple

Marlin 336 with 160gr LeveRevolution bullet.....shot was about 90 yards, deer went 5 feet!

Nice Buck.

Doc

Get the .308 in something like the Remington model 7 or my son's Ruger Compact. You won't find a lever handier than that. A bolt gun is also safer.
If I had to go with a brush caliber, the .38-55 and .35 Rem would be well ahead of the .30-30.

this is a copy of one of my favorite stories, from Gray's sporting journal. Just wanting to share not steal Ed Gray's work in any way. I think most will really enjoy this if you haven't ever read it.

2386936
A couple of years ago Becky and I went up to Norb and Sig's place in Vermont. They were having their annual invitation-only deer hunt; it's about half hunt and half party, but the men who go up every year seem to know why they go, and the year before they had put a half-dozen deer on the pole. Becky and I didn't even buy licenses; all we wanted to do was to shake a few hands, hear one or two of the stories, sort of a tire-kicking trip.
We got there late in the afternoon of the first day of the hunt, an most of the boys were already back at the house. No deer.
"No snow," somebody said.
"Too hot."
"Herd's down."
"Lotta hunters out there."
"Let's eat," somebody said.
The meal was the standard, put-a-lot-of-stuff-in-the-pot-and-let-it-simmer number, and while the simmering part took place the boys fell loosely into the various chairs and benches around the fire and started talking. You know the script.
You really know the script if you know the group. Norb is one of those upper-echelon gun nuts who thinks about firearms the way Eddie Arcaro must think about horses - passionately, but with respect. So the boys who hunt with Norb tend to be cut from a cloth. A cloth anointed with Hoppe's.
Anyway, it didn't take long for the talk to get around to calibers. Tom had his moment then, for he was recently back from a hidden valley in British Columbia where he had reduced a truly large grizzly to possession with a single shot from his new big bore Colt Sauer. He even had pictures, but the
boys sort of tuned out after they agreed that a .458 Win Mag. might have too much stopping power for the Vermont deer woods. Tom didn't have it with him anyway.
An interesting thing to do in any deer camp is to glance across the gun rack, and you could tell right away that the boys in Norb's bunch weren't just deer hunters. All bolt actions and scopes here, and the ordnance leaned a bit to the heavy side of .270. Becky and I weren't really in the thick of the
conversation, and I was having fun imagining where some of those rifles had pointed when Norb's brother Charley came over.
"Where's your gun, Ed?" he asked.
"Oh, I'm not hunting this time," I answered. "Going up to New Hampshire next week."
Charley nodded.
"But I did bring the gun," I said. "My good .30-30. The one Becky gave me. Pre-64, really a good one. You ought to see it."
Charley didn't want to see it. In fact he didn't want to hear about it. "Don't use it," he said.
He was right, of course. If you spend all year working up to your few days in the woods, if you truly love venison, and if your rifle is simply the tool to get the job doen, then you certainly will increase your odds if you put some extra foot-punds behind your bullet. "Just remember," Charley said, "The first time you trail a wounded deer for six miles is the last time you'll use that .30-30."
"Yeah," I said. The problem is that I've never hunted deer with anything but a .30-30. To me it's a part of the package, just like woolen pants, new snow and lunch alone deep in the woods. I wasn't going to change just because it made sense to do so.
Like most of us, I spend the better part of my time on a deer hunt alone, not seeing game, and the only thing along for company is my little rifle. It's the sort of circumstance that turns inanimate things into pets, and the .30-30 that Becky gave me had become that. So I listened to Charley, and I worried a bit about what he had said, but I took the little gun with me anyway.
I took the little gun when Larry and I went back to the cabin near Bog Brook. I, and the rifle, had been there before, and when we got there I hung the rifle on its peg by the back door. Not an event, just one of the little rituals that marks the edges of a regular hunt; a quiet pleasure marked and quickly forgotten, to be remembered much later.
The moment passed as quickly three days later when I took the gun of the peg, a minor act lost in the glow of what had turned out to be the best hunt that I've had yet. I packed the gun in the back of the jeep, in with the duffel and seemingly detached from the trophy it had cleanly taken - the dressed northern whitetail that hit 212 pounds on the scale at West Milan. The deer I'd spent ten years seeking. The deer that people still want to hear about. The deer that hangs next to me in the funny snapshot that Larry took, the picture that shows my day-glow hat that Larry talked me into wearing that day. And it shows the little rifle resting on my knees as I sit there on the porch of the cabin up near Bog Brook. I'll show you the picture. I'll show you the mounted head of the deer, and I'll even show you the funny hat, as long as you don't ask about the rifle.
Because the rifle was stolen ten months later.
So now I spend a lot of time in gun shops, elbows on the counter, peering at the rack where they keep the better used rifles. If Charley were with me he'd smile, I'm sure, as I looked over the nicely-checkered .30-06's and.308's. But he'd have no way of knowing that this was just idle window shopping, a casual glance across the whole selection. I only get serious when I come to the place where they keep the .30-30's, the Model 94's.
When I find them, I stand back a bit and look carefully, searching for the right touch of age, color and grace that marks a good one. If I don't see it, I move on. But if one of the little guns has it, if the patina is right on the stock and the detachable swivels are there, then I pick it up.
I pick it up and turn it over. If you saw me do it you might think that I was checking for rust or dry-rot, feeling the action or checking for wear. No.
When I turn over the .30-30, I'm looking for just one thing. A number.
2386936.
I think Charley would understand.

Ed Gray, October 1979

Great story! I hope he found his gun.

Statically, if you flip a coin enough times, you will land on heads or tails 100% of the time.

If you shoot enough deer, you are going to find that they either drop or they don't.

Any answer you get is going to be subjective. If one can get accurate records of kills...and I mean accurate records! You will find that the standard deviation for "dropping them" is the same for most any round commonly used on deer.

I've seen deer hit by a truck revive in the ditch and run off.

The first 5 deer I shot with a 30-30 all dropped within 10 feet of being hit before I realized I needed a 30-06.

Do tell?

So, what are some pet load for 170 grain bullets?

32.0 gr WW 748 170 Sierra
29.0 gr H 322 170 Sierra

This has worked very good for me:

Remington brass
CCI 200 primer
Hornady 170 FP
29.5 grains IMR-3031

As I've posted before, that load is more accurate than it should be in my particular M94, it may not be so in yours. Also, I believe the bullet is the key component because I have used 748 also, with similar results, the 3031 showing slightly better accuracy, but the 748 is no slouch, either.

170 hornady FP
Win brass
cci200
36 grains LVR
2200 fps chronied in a 20" barrel.

This powder tightens groups the closer to max you get.

This load is more accurate than I am with open sights. About 1.5" @ 100 yards.

Well... there may be some truth to it because the old hammer lever actions got the nick name "widow maker" somehow. Its not the rifle but the operator though. A lot of them inexperienced kids or safety lax adults.

My brother is one of those ninny's that calls his 94 the widowmaker and would agree with the bolt gun assessment and doesn't hunt the 94 much. Hes not willing to give me that old 94 to remove a defective product from his house though.