Was in Fridays newspaper.....no point restrictions in many Missouri counties for 2015

Several North Missouri counties will scrap the 4 point law starting this year

I like this idea. I am tired of trying to count points before I kill a deer. I don't want to do anything illegal I just want to punch my tag. If it's a big buck great. If it's a fork horn great.

I almost didn't kill a big eight pointer last year because I couldn't see his brow tines at 163 yards as he was on the move. Luckily he came to about 125 yards when I hit the grunt call so I could see his brow tines.

Dink

Did you get the deer survey in the mail back in January Dink?

I think the Conservation Dept is calling out CWD and EHD and other deer ailments as the reason for this change but I have attended several open to the public deer meetings

The general public......at least 80 to 90% hate the 4 point law and cheap non-resident antlerless license

Horrible news

Horrible news

MDC knew better than to try to impose that stuff in the Ozark's.

No I didn't get the survey.

Of course I just found the article and the county I hunt will still have the four point rule. Just my luck.

I have hated the four point rule since the beginning. I know everyone in this part of the country claims to be a trophy hunter but I am not one. I just want to kill my deer and put my tag on it.

MDC is going to have to get rid of the cheap non-resident tag prices or keep pizzing residents off. I know of a lot of lease ground now that will only lease to non-residents because they show up a couple days and then are gone.

I don't really know why our deer numbers are down but they are scared it's CWD related.

Dink

MDC is scared period!!!! One or two more down years and heads will roll.

Overharvest with unlimited doe tags combined with the 2 year drought and EHD has numbers very very low

I hunt other states and I'm 100% in favor of license price match....your state price equals ours......non residents get zero doe tags to keep Iowa, Illinois and Kansas out of Missouri after the standard rifle season

I am not sure the unlimited doe tags really has much to do with it. Most guys I know killed thier buck and maybe one doe.

I killed three or four deer several times when unlimited doe tags came about but I have have only killed a buck the last several years (except for one year I also killed a doe).

I don't know if I can name anyone that has consistently killed more than one or two deer a year (talking strictly rifle season).

Dink

I like the 4 pt restriction. I have seen a significant improvement in the number of mature 8 pt and better bucks in my area since the restriction went into effect a few years ago. There's no shortage of does in my area. I always thought one should shoot a doe if they want meat. Pass on the smaller bucks and let them get older.

Be nice if they let y'all shoot does instead of killing a promising buck just for meat.

I've never much understood why anyone would want to do that.

But its life. Different strokes for different folks.

Spread restriction works really well here, and I am so thankful they put it in, was tired of not seeing anything becuase anything with antlers got shot by the shoot anything crowd.

5 years into spread(age) restriction and I took 2 bucks almost 140ish inches with my bow..... and now I can take one every year I want to, if the need or desire is there.

Generally I'm too busy killing the culls rather than the decent ones.

roost

Missouri has had unlimited doe tags in many counties for nearly a decade...... $7 each.....as many as you wanted to buy and fill......resident or non resident for many years

Not to mention 29 days you can kill a $7 doe

This was eliminated last year thank god

I would like to see the doe season go away completely

Ted,
That's where hunters need to use some common sense. Just because they can, doesn't mean they need to do so. Similar ridiculous reduction happened here in WI and things went south in a hurry.

I have a hard time seeing a single downside to 4pts/side - save for maybe a youngster getting his/her first buck.

If you dont think people kill a lot does you havent hunted around a Amish community. They will kill all they can. Most people are happy with just one. It is nice to have the option to kill one with a bow and another in the late rifle or muzzleloader season if you dont score on a buck. I have bought far more antlerless tags then I have used.

I like the 4pt restriction because it does seem like we see more mature bucks. But I can also understand the frustration of a hunter that only has a few days to hunt, has marginal land to hunt or lack of experience not liking it. There basket rack 6 pt may be as much of a trophy as 150" buck to someone else.

We definetly need to up the Non Resident fee's I pay high prices to hunt other states when I can. They should do the same. It is damned hard to find a place to hunt even if you want to pay a lease. Lease ground is high for marginal land even higher for a good piece. I know several guys that dont hunt anymore due to not having a place to hunt.

Population is way down and I dont thing it is all due to EHD but the long term effect of unlimited doe tags has finally reared its ugly head. I think people are easing up on the doe harvest but it is 3 years to late. I think one doe tag per hunter is plenty whether rifle or muzzleloader. Let the bow guys keep there doe tags but only can use one per each part of the season most wont but it is a nice option to have. Youth of course should have either sex no anter restrictions. My 2 cents

Charles

IMO the four point rule is great. Was a resident of Missouri until I was 21 and have hunted family land with out of state tags for the last 16 years. A few years back when that blue tongue disease hit so bad we would go around the farm and see dozens of deer carcasses. Makes you wonder how many we didn't see.

Only way to get the population back to where it was when I was growing up is to have restrictions. I think the four point rule is good, and I don't have a problem with a two or three doe limit. There are some people out there who need meat in the freezer for the year. I buy one buck tag a year for myself and for last two years have bought one for my eldest daughter. More years than not I walk away without firing a shot and that's ok.

For me it's not just about the kill. I'd rather see the quality of deer back to where they once were for my girls and their families, who will hunt after I am gone.

This is why doe limits need to be set low.....very low

Heads might roll at M D C but they would have to get them out of their arsses first. What a joke for management personal!!!

I would say they do a dang fine job.

Ive hunted several states in my 46 years.....Missouri could teach a few states a thing or two

I like the 4 point rule. Here it's 3 in some areas, my personal choice is 4. I've noticed over the years that most of the guys I know who never seem to kill a good buck have a big pile of dink antlers around the garage somewhere....only makes sense, if they kill the first legal deer that comes along, of course they're reducing the chance they'll kill a good rack. On the properties we have, my brothers and I and our friends shoot does for meat and hold off on bucks unless we can see 4 points on a side. We've been doing that for some time now and the results show. Most of us get a good buck most years. If a guy likes to hunt as much as most claim to, it seems kind of dumb to burn your tag on the first crotchhorn or spike that comes along.

+1

Glad theyre dropping it, about time.

Disgruntled ex-employee?

Nope retired! And know more $hit on the money grubbing. tax wasting agency than anyone should. But they have a way of keeping you from letting it out if you want your retirement , insurance etc etc. Know one thing for sure it is time fore their sales tax windfall to go away. Getting to where they can't even waste it all every year.

+1

The dropping of the 4 point law has nothing to do with buck management

To shoot more does at this time is just stupid as heard numbers are way down

Stupid application of stupid laws does stupid things.

Like us, no doe seaosn but kill however many bucks of whatever from button buck on up.

No deer left to shoot as they shot all the bucks and the does never got bred...

It works both ways, either you or the game department has to apply some sense

Depends where in the state you're hunting. I am in the woods a lot and I've seen no shortage of deer in my area for the past several years. In fact, there's too many does.

I just love how one hunter can form an opinion of their particular area and then apply the same opinion to the entire state.

I live in the Mark Twain National Forest

No deer issues in this area

However I lease a farm in Schuyler county only 16 miles from Iowa

Deer numbers are way down in that area

We have gradually seen bigger bucks since they put in the 4-point rule.

Speaking of shooting does, isn't a 1-to-1 buck to doe ratio good for the herd?

I wish there was a solution for the poacher, road hunter, spot lighter problem.

love the 4 point rule. and hate the doe season.

Is there a link to this? Or are we just speculating?

Steve.

go to missouri dept of conservation web page. its there

That's kinda why I asked. I can't find it there. In fact, I find almost no updates for 2015 -- almost everything is about 2014, so it looks like the MDoC website hasn't yet been updated for the 2015 seasons. If you can, please post a link.

Thanks.
Steve.

Missouri is also going to start a point system and lottery draw for non-residents in 2016

Starting in the spring 2016 non-residents will have to draw a rifle buck tag and buy a non-resident hunting and fishing permit

It will also be noted that to draw a buck tag it will require 3 points

Each year of not being drawn you will receive a point after 3 points you will draw on the 4th try

Points will be purged to zero every 3 years

Do they have to buy the hunting and fishing license to get their point?

So a any deer tag will now cost $347. It's still cheaper than most places.

Dink

The hunting and fishing license will need to be purchased at the same time the any deer tag is applied for.....the deer license will also be paid for in advance with a 95% refund on the deer license if you are not drawn

The non resident hunting and fishing license is non refundable

You must also be an active NRA member and a natural born free US citizen

But note.....it will take 3 points to draw on the 4th year of applying

With a 3 year point purge to back to zero

Every three years you start over with no points

I see I am just little slow this morning. It's what happens when I work midnights.

Dink

That's all good news to my ears. Hope that applies to special managed hunts and spring turkey season too.

Edit: I am surprised at the requirement to be an NRA member.

About the only thing I've been able to find on the site is for managed hunts - which references all the info you've stated above.

http://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/deer/managed-hunts-selection-process

http://mdc.mo.gov/newsroom/mdc-changes-deer-hunting-regs-help-slow-cwd

Curious, how many NR shoot how many deer each year?

Looks like this way a NR draws a deer tag every 4 years.

i've no issues with that, but wonder if its addressing the problem.

Note_ I have not followed this thread that thorougly so if I missed the answer my apologies.

If it takes 3 points to draw a tag on year 4 but you loose your points after 3 years how long does it take to figure out a farce?

I left a couple easy hints.....Dink figured it out

All jokes aside

However.....the 4 point law will still be lifted in the CWD zones along with 2 antlerless tag limit

Your name ain't Brain is it ?

They do / did been antlerless only tags and 1 anydeer permit (either antlered or antlerless) for years now

If I didn't read the header would have sworn this was a Pa Deer thread. Looks like we are not alone in complaining about how are Deer are managed.

NO I am not Brian but I worked with him some. If you know him and what he went through, you know what a bunch of idiots we are talking about here. Did you used to live north and west of where you are now ??

Same comment could apply to a Michigan hunting board.

They instituted antler restrictions in the NW part of this state 2-3 years ago after being pressured by some wannabe Bone Collectors who don't even live up here who claimed that not killing a buck when it is young magically makes it a healthier deer, when in fact, it lets a young deer with wacky genetics breed when it could have been taken out of the herd.

Burns my ass that I pay taxes on my own land and a bunch of apple-knockers and biologists who don't even live around here can tell me what I can and can't shoot on it.

NR hunters don't hurt the deer population much if any. Most of us (yea, I'm NR) mostly go to hunt MO because of family and touching base with home. I don't really care if I kill a deer or not, and I "self-limit" myself to one deer a year. The arguments heard on MWT and other websites often forget that, or the greedy, grasping, and selfish resident goobs just want to keep "their" deer to themselves.

Same old story, same old whining.

MO's deer numbers the past few years have dropped some. Not so much where I hunt, that's been pretty steady, but in other areas CWD and EHD HAVE eaten up some numbers. It happens every few years, though the past few years have been worse.

I hunt the CWD zone, but I'm not seeing a die-off where I hunt, it's been pretty good.

I'm right in the north east edge of Lawrence county very close to Dade almost as close to Greene, been there pretty much my whole life

Here is my 3 cents from PA. The PA Game Commission has been backing off on doe tags and hunt time in my area for the last two years. I hunt public land and see almost no other hunters, even the first day. Unheard of 20 years ago. With almost no hunting pressure the deer population should be out of hand. Not. The only good thing is if you do see a deer, it will almost certainly be a buck because the herd is so out of wack in this area now.

Aren't you from Kentucky? Kentucky non-resident fees have always been considerably higher than Missouri. Missouri is way late on increasing their non-resident fees to fall closer in line with other states. Quit yer whining and pay up or stay home - simple.

If you don't mind me asking, what type of position did you work in with the MDC?

I have no objection to paying a reciprocal fee. I DO object to whiney azzholes complaining that we NR folks shoot "their" deer. My family farms a lot of acreage and they feed a whole host of wildlife, deer included. Some knucklehead jassack from St. Louis' little 20 acre 'patch of heaven' that they are complaining are stealing "their deer" DO irritate me. I wasn't referencing you MOGC, I know you from MWT, where there ARE some of those whiners, and we both know who they are.

NR hunters DO have a huge impact. I used to hunt Maryland and the PA hunters (Better shots, I guess) destroyed that area I hunted. It was a good deer populated area that had a lottery for NR doe tags. Once they allowed liberal doe hunting in that area it ruined it. I hunted there for years and hardly saw any PA plates. Once they opened up more doe tags it looked like the circus came to town.
I noticed the same thing hunting West Virginia, only it is not as bad there.

Ratsmacker,
I am completely in favor of reciprocal fees. However, that doesn't seem to be happening. For the first time Missouri is on the upper side of the fee situation, depending upon which state you compare. Some states still have higher fees though the gap narrowed some now. So this is what it is and the choice is clear and no amount of complaining changes it.

You seem like a good guy and I understand you hunt family owned property. I can appreciate the tradition and heritage involved in that. My situation dealing with some non-resident groups hunting public ground in the Ozark's hasn't been positive. And it isn't about the deer/turkey though some of them have admitted poaching a deer or turkey for "camp meat" and not tagging small deer at all. Mostly my bitch is the complete lack of respect they have for the ground, rivers, game and local people. I get tired of picking up their damned trash left scattered around a campsite when they haul ass back to Illinois. Seeing them hack with a chainsaw an ATV trail because they're too damned lazy and stupid to get a deer out of the timber. Locals are two toothed knuckle dragging inbreds - according to them. I could go on but there's no point, you should get it by now.

In reference to MWT, I don't read all those long winded threads. That site is very cliquish and has an over abundance of dumbphucktitude. I skim read it and that's about I can stomach.

I think the point system for a draw is stupid ,I think raising the out of state license fee is a good idea ,limiting doe harvest in counties that need it is also good .also doe season where need be eliminated. I see some pretty damn good deer with the 4 point rule undecided on that yet.

We try not to shoot any under 150, that eliminates worrying about counting points. Any eight pointer that you have trouble seeing if it's legal, you need to let go anyway.

The problem people have with NR in Mo. is the fact that we are bordered by states that are nearly impossible to draw a tag, while we take in them all. Our farm is on the line, and we have numerous places we could hunt in Ia, as farmers own land on both sides.....except we can't get a tag. Meanwhile in our county, the roads are patrolled by legions of out of state road hunters as well as serious hunters.

We manage our doe kill and bucks, still have good numbers and good trophies on our land.

i have a serious problem with them doing away with the 4 pt rule. it's saving all the young bucks from the brown and down crowd. they need to reduce the doe tags as well from unlimited to 1 or 2.

rockchucker, You cannot have it all. Think about this: Do you really believe that your Game Commission is going to let all those bucks walk around and browse the area bald and destroy crops, while letting the doe increase to do the same? It has been shown in the states that adopted ARs that it only works in limited access areas where over hunting cannot occur. There have always been big deer in PA and there still is, only now a heck of a lot less of them. AR is like reverse Darwinism, let the sick and stupid survive. Bad things happen when you try to engineer nature.

The grass is always greener

I hunt MO every year, either rifle or muzzleloader...because I have family there, and its a tradition. These changes make this, while impossible, much more unlikely. I have donated a few thousand in NR fees...and have harvested one deer. Period. I let does walk, even though I have bought the additional $25.00 fee every single year. I always looked at it as a "tip" to the state for letting me hunt.

With these changes, the state has gone from making $250 a year from me, plus whatever sales tax revenue I generate while I am there...to $0. I will be damned if I am going to pay that kind of money for a draw hunt...

What state do you live in? What is your non-resident fee and tag process if I decide I want to hunt your state? And I'll say it again, I wish the non-resident hunters I encounter on public ground shared the same respect for the land that I am sure you do.

I am in Oklahoma...a non resident deer tag is $280...period. As for the process...its much like MO, you buy it online, or at the counter. No lotteries, no points.

To quote the OK Wildlife Dept "For nonresidents who hunt deer during gun season. If hunting only deer, no annual or 5-day hunting license is required."

This price is roughly the same as MO, a little more. This, however, is from an agency who is funded solely by revenue generated from license sales. The OK Dept of Wildlife receives zero dollars from tax appropriations. None.

Did you read the Missouri link? You are still be good to hunt every year. The draw is only for managed hunts, not other hunting.

$225 nonresident. Reasonable. Last year I bought a $900 out of state bull elk tag.

Oh hell...I completely misunderstood, and I read the damned thing three times. I was under the impression that all rates were going up, and you had to draw for any antlered tag. My apologies. I will pay the $225+$25 gladly..

I have always enjoyed my hunting in Missouri, even though they havent been incredibly fruitful. The area of St. Clair Co I hunt in doesnt seem to have an overabundance of deer...but I still love it. I may switch gears and try a Spring Turkey hunt next year, never done that there.

for MOGC I worked as a wildlife biology assistant. And F Y I I had the same lawyer on retainers that won the judgment for Kyle Carroll. Oh yes he handed the commission. dept and director their asses on a paper plate, and would love to do it again!!

Did the state offer a reason for making the point restrictions not the same in all counties?

When you have your head inserted solidly in your posterior,

there is no need to try to give reason for anything you do

You have a real hard on for the MDC. Most people think they do a fine job,