I'm looking to turn my 30-30 into a 30-30 ackley
how hard is it to do, and does anyone know a reputable gunsmith I can trust my 336 too, to have this done

I'm sure Dennis Olson in Plains, Mt. would do you an excellent job, but I have to say your not going to gain a heck of a lot in the IMP version with simular hits the results won't change at all..As to trajectory you still don't gain much..at least not from a practical standpoint. But then its your call not mine.

The first thing you need to remember is not to use any of the load data listed in P.O. Ackley�s Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders. This data was developed by Robert Hutton for use is a long barreled Mauser rifle; it is not intended for use in lever-action rifles.


Using powders appropriate for the bullet weight in rifles with a 20� barrel, Marlin 336 or Winchester Model 94AE, you can easily achieve 3,000 fps the 100- and 110-grain bullets. 2,700 fps with the 125- and 130-grain bullet. The 150-grain bullets will give you 2,500 fps and the 170-grain bullets deliver 2,300 fps+. You can do better with the heavy bullets and powders such as Hodgdon Varget and Alliant Reloder 15 but you are working at high pressure in uncharted territory. At the above stated velocities you will have excellent case life and a good margin of safety.

For use on deer and medium sized hogs your best selection for bullet weight for the 30-30AI is, in my opinion, the 170-grain bullet at between 2,300 and 2,375 fps. This is a fine deer killing combination.

Others have different opinions but here is mine: I have shot the 307 Winchester, 30-30AI and the 308 Marlin Express quite extensively, buy the new Marlin 308MX rifle and keep your 30-30 as is. The 308 Marlin cartridge is in current production, factory ammunition is of exceptional quality and the cartridge responds very well to handloading. Buy the new rifle and don�t look back.
Dont overlook Mr. Nooneman

I had a Marlin 336 reamed to 30-30AI by Jim Kobe in Bloomington, MN at a reasonable cost. It is a simple process. Fun project to play with but not one that makes a lot of practical hunting difference as stated by others. I second the comment to avoid reliance on the Ackley book loads. Ruined a few cases before I figured that out. I played with 100 to 125 grain bullets which was fun and found that the 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips single loaded were very accurate. In a typical short 20" barrel and normal 150 to 180 grain bullets,it gets to slightly less than a 300 Savage for velocity with same bullets. I probably would not do the conversion unless it was just for somnething different or for lots of plinking since case trimming is more or less eliminated unless pushing velocities. Better ways exist to spend a hundred + bucks than this one.

Jim just did a sako extractor on my son's 722 6x45. very fast as well, I'll email him tonight and see about the 30-30 AI.

I know in all practicality it doesn't give all that much more, but what the heck right?

Spoken like a true rifle looney with a serious infection! Good luck and have fun! Jim does great work quickly and at reasonable cost in my experience.

I was told its not a simple ream job but the whole barrel needs to be reworked, is it that difficult? I thought it was just put in the reamer, bore it out and you're done (ok not THAT easy but close)

The barrel needs to come off and be rechambered and set back for a proper crush fit and then put back on with proper headspace. Some try to ream the barrel out while in place but not recommended. I would do what Jim recommends if you talk to him.

isn't the lever evolution ammo with the gummy bear tips the big thing with .30-30's and other lever calibers? i have not seen or shot the stuff here in Hawaii but all the reviews i have seen all say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. the red/orange plastic follower from marlin is supposed to make it feed better as well as make it easier to see that your gun is empty.

It is not a necessity to remove the barrel to ream your chamber for the 30-30AI or the 25-35AI for that matter. The cartridges not only headspace on the rim but the shoulder is moved well forward on these cartridges � unlike most of the rimless versions of Ackley Improved cartridges.
The Hornady 30-30 LeveRevolution cartridges average about 2,080 fps from my 20� barrel 30-30 carbines, 2,065 fps from the 16� Trapper and just short of 2,300 fps from the 26� barreled rifles. The 30-30AI cartridge will exceed this and deliver about 250 fps higher muzzle velocity.

If we anticipate long range shots and sight our 30-30AI in 3.5� high (a little less than this actually) using the 170-grain Speer bullet at 2,350 fps muzzle velocity we have a point blank range on an 8� target circle of 239 yards with 1,200 fpe remaining at 200 yards.

The 160-grain LeveRevolution bullet started at the same 2,350 fps and sighted about the same 3.5� high at 100 yards will have a point blank range on the 8� target circle of 240 yards with 1,245 fpe remaining at 200 yards.

The real difference is the Hornady bullet has a bit less drift when the wind blows. The Hornady bullet also tends to expand a little quicker due to the plastic tip. At close ranges � less than 50 yards, this tends to give you some interesting entrance wounds. My experience with the Hornady bullet is it is stoutly constructed and retains its weight very well despite its quick expansion.

To my surprise I have found the Hornady 30-30 LeveRevolution ammunition to be more accurate in my Winchester rifles than in my Marlin rifles.
Handloading the component bullets has given me about equal accuracy between the two types of rifling.

You will be hard pressed to find any un-tuned lever action rifle which will equal the accuracy of the out-of the-box Marlin 308MX rifles shooting its factory loaded 308 Marlin Express ammunition. This is a different bullet from the 30-30 but I believe the accuracy is due to the fitting of the locking bolt and a few other �tricks� Marlin uses when assembling the 308MX rifle.

Before you have that done. I'ld strongly urge you to work up the maximum loads with slow for the cartridge powders like Rl15,h414 etc,with the bullets you expect to use the most. These slow for the 30-30 powders are the ones that will usually work best in the AI. When you get the rifle back then about all you need do is work up 2 grs over the maximum you already had. Watch the chronograph and when you hit 150-200 fps over your previuos load, its time to quit.
As has been stated already AI'ing the 30-30 is a simple matter of running the reamer in until it touches the rim recess. No need to take the barrel off.

I looked at the drift just for fun. With the 2,350 fps muzzle velocity and the 200 yard zero the prediction for two bullets looks like this in an 8 mph wind:

The 170 grain Speer flat nose bullet would drift 1.25� at 100 yards and 4.25� at 300 yards

The Hornady 160 LeveRevolution bullet would drift 1.14� at 100 yards and 3.84� at 300 yards.

Now I am using some best case stuff here as the Speer flat nose bullet has an excellent BC for its type. If we raised the velocities to 307 Winchester levels the numbers would creep closer together. The 307 Winchester using the Speer 170-grain bullet has a point blank range of 240 yards using a 6� target circle. Field results have closely matched the computer predictions and I am the limiting factor when shooting beyond 150 yards from field positions.

is there a gunsmith out there who does 336's a lot to do it this way? I don't want to take a "short cut" if its not the right way to do it

You'll just have to visit with the gun parts changers in your vicinity to find out what they do......
When I had the job done several years ago Jackalope Gunshop in Douglas Wy did it without removing the barrel. When I querried him about the job, first thing he said was "that's a good one, you can almost make it do what a 308 will do, but you need to watch the headspace, especially with these Marlins" I then inquired about having to remove the barrel he chuckled and said" Ackley never did, so I never have".

I�ve reamed four 30-30AI chambers using this method. Doesn�t make me an authority on the subject but it did work.
Mr. Nonneman is a good choice for a lever action smith as is Mic McPherson. Don�t have a link for McPherson.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=8472&highlight=ream

Nonneman

http://www.leveractions.com/

Trust whatever Nonneman tells you. He knows Marlin leverguns. He has a .30-30AI levergun in his truck. He does great work.

Regan Nonneman did right by my Marlin. Was a 30-30, now a 356.

I'm really thinking on making it a .307 win
the more I read the more I like, and I don't need extra dies, and brass I found for 89 bucks for 250 pieces of new

Take a cruise through the two linked threads looking for posts from Seattle Loader.
Eric has two Marlin 336 rifles rebarreled by Nonneman to 3-7 Winchester.
Just something to occupy a cool evening.
Post #167 om page 9 and Post #220 on page 11 have pictures of his Marlin rifles.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=44322&highlight=.307+winchester

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=53835&highlight=.307

The 336 rechamber to AI is very easy and a great upgrade. I've re-chambered many of them over the years w/o removing the barrel. I did one that I kept for ahwile that was incredibly accurate, holding consistently under an inch with 110 grain bullets at well over 3K fps. I took it to a prarie dog shoot once, just for fun, and had some of the guys ribbing me about bringing a "saddle gun" to a bench shoot. They quit laughing soon, and one of them had to have it. He finally talked me out of it. Later told me he'd won a few bets with it back at his home club.
One of my all time favorite calibers, I re-barreled a #1 in it a couple years back (tapered oct bbl) that is a tack driver. It's my favorite "modern" deer rifle with 130 gr. @ 2700+ fps.
Very efficient, low recoil, virtually no breech pressure (important in lever actions), low muzzle blast, accurate etc etc.
Greg

What you guys are gaining in killing power and trajectory in a 30-30 IMP, is zilch in the field, an equal hit with a std. 30-30 will kill just as fast. Do you actually think 200 FPS changes anything and thats giving you a lot of room in that I shoot my 30-30s at 2233 FPS with a 170 gr. bullet and almost 2400 with a 150 gr. bullet.

Shooting one inch flatter at 300 or wind drift of an inch less says little for the 30-30 IMP under field conditions..

Yupppers and the same stupid statement can be said about the 300 savagev308 , 308v3006, 3006v300HH, 300HHv300wby, and the list could go on......

At 100 yards and under the 170-grain flat nose bullets driven at 2,350+ fps and higher velocity, from the 30-30AI, 308 Marlin Express or 307 Winchester do kill deer just a bit quicker than the same bullet launched from the standard 30-30.
I am not suggesting the standard 30-30 will not kill deer, I hunt with several, including a 16� Trapper and I have no trouble killing deer with the 30-30.
When using good bullets such as the 130-grain Speer flat nose, the 150-grain Barnes X and the wonderful 170-grain Speer, the Improved 30-30 delivers noticeably better performance, especially when the deer are in-motion prior to the shot. I have experienced the difference.
If you walk-up your deer in the brush, they will be in motion as the rifle comes to your shoulder and the added energy of the 30-30AI, equaling quicker expansion, provides a difference any hunter experienced with the standard 30-30 will immediately recognize. It�s the reason cartridges such as the 300 Savage developed such a following. The average hunter using the 300 Savage wasn�t shooting deer any further out, but they were hitting the ground hard at the shot.
In my experience deer well hit (crossing the X from front or rear) with a 20� barreled standard 30-30 do not; drop at the shot. I expect deer well hit with the 30-30AI, 308 Marlin Express and 307 Winchester to drop at the shot and I have been very rarely disappointed. This trait reinforces the hunter�s confidence when hunting in thick brush or on public land.
I agree, in today�s market there is no requirement, other than curiosity, to �Improve� the 30-30. The 308 Marlin Express and the two rifles chambered for it have the niche well covered for new rifles. But I have confidence in the statement: �You can see the difference.�