advice on a 45 70 marlin guide gun vs xlr...

I have a guide gun set up with peep sites.
Shoot well, but never hunted with it.

Where I used to hunt back east all game was under 60 yards.
I live west now. The gun gun has not been given a chance.

I am thinking a xlr with the 24" barrel and a low power leupold scope.
I reload.

How much gain in velocity is there with the longer barrel?
How much better trajectory with warm loads?

I am thinking it is more personal preference rather than gain/loss of performance. I have the XLR with a set of Brockman sights and no scope. Got my first deer with it this fall. I love hunting with that rifle.

I personaly like the compactness of the Guide gun. I've been hunting with one every year since I bought it(the first year they came out) I don't know about the velocity difference either. I have bought other guns(for long range) but I always leave them at home and hunt with the guide gun. Killed quite a few deer with it, and a couple elk. Its not a real long range gun(my longest kill to date was a cow elk at a ranged 205 yards). I guess what I'm saying is I too believe its mostly personal preference. If you don't end up liking it it will end up staying home most of the time

I have a Guide Gun, which is my preference, but won't recommend it over a longer-barreled rifle, if that so happens to be what you like.

I am able to comfortably get 2200 fps with a 300 grain bullet out of it, and thats about as fast as I care to push that weight. I can also get mid-1900's, if I care to push it that hard, with a 430 grain hard-cast LBT style bullet, but I like that one better at mid-16's to 1700 fps, no real need to go any faster.

I would say, if possible, fire an example of each, or, at the least, handle both. The extreme answer would be to buy both.....(grin)

Extreme -- isn't that what a Marlin XLR stands for? Xtreme Lever Rifle.

XLR slightly modified with my first deer killed with it.

Ohhhh....I thought it meant the "extra lever rifle".


Actually I hadn't thought about what it meant. Like the SBL. Serious Business Lever?? They would bring that out after I've poured money into my GG.

Of 17 different loads from 250 grains to 400,the average of those loads shot first in a 24" Test Barrel then in the Guide Gun was 26.66 fps per barrel inch by Rick Jamison.

Jayco

I have the XLR in 450M with a set of Brockman sights and no scope (too).

Sadly no deer

ElkHunter, is that a DRC lever on your rifle?

That pretty much qualifies the 25 fps rule of thumb.

I miss Rick's writing.

Yes sir it is.

I'm gonna get one if I can ever find it. They seem to be rather rare at the moment. They look to be about the right size for the amount of gloves I like to wear.

I like that model he best of all that I looked at. The edges are rounded nicely. The original lever cut my hand when I fired the rifle. Have you contacted David directly?

No I haven't, I understand that there may be some personal issues at hand there. If that's indeed the case, I'll bide my time.

That is the answer I was looking for, thanks.

I was thinking the longer barrel would be a meaningful advantage.
I don't see that here, at least in a hunting situation.

I have a guide gun with peep sites.

I would have used it when I hunted back east. It would have been great.

I was thinking of an XLR and a low power Leupold as a buddy to the guide gun.

I am surprised by small improvement of the extra barrel length.

Maybe I should scope the guide gun. Find a high BC bullet so I can shoot out to 150 yards if needed.

I spoke to an outfitter last spring. He does fly in trips to hunt moose. Native guides call moose to the shores of lakes and rivers. They hunt from boats. Instructions are simple. Shoulder shots to drop them. So a bullet with a reputation to hold together on shoulder hits.

Yes I reload. Am new to hunting with the 45 70.
Opinions please.

I'm not happy with any of the options Marlin offers. The Guide Guns shoot good, but even with a receiver, as a hunting gun the sight radius is too short. On the plus side, I definitely prefer the straight grip of the guide gun. If they wanted to make me happy, there are about 3 configurations that'd do the trick. A standard 1895 in blue or stainless, 22" barrel, but straight grip would do it. A 22" version of the cowboy rifle would as well.

IMHO, if you are worrying about relative trajectory, you shouldn't shoot a .45-70 at all. I don't think you'll gain enough trajectory flatness switching barrel lengths in .45-70 to justify the money you'll lose swapping guns. If you feel you have to trade, trade for something else.

Tom

.........Before you decide on what to do, go out and hunt with your GG and try it out first! You`re presuming that your 18.5" barrel length won`t get you enough bullet velocity for western hunting here out west compared to a 24" tubed XLR.

The 45-70 whether from an 18.5" barrel or from a 24" er, is a short to moderate range hunting cartridge. If your hunting ranges will exceed for the most part 225-250 yards, then it`s better to use use another cartridge.

As a scope suggestion, get a 2.5x FX2 Ultralite, mount it on your GG and go out and hunt with it. If you later feel you need the 24" er 45-70, you can transfer that scope over.

That extra 5 1/2" of barrel length will gain you some in the range dept. But if you find yourself needing more range, if it were me, I`d keep the GG and simply buy another rifle.

No "worries at all Tom, but thanks...

I would like to do some of my hunting with a 45 70.
I have seen and have taken enough game at the edge of daylight to prefer a scope.
I was thinking of a scope on my guide gun.

Or this deal on an XLR... Then having both.

2 guns is always better!

.

"Maybe I should scope the guide gun. Find a high BC bullet so I can shoot out to 150 yards if needed."

My 45-70's will shoot a lot farther than 150 yards with any bullet. It sounds like you have been reading too many magazine articles.

Don't waste my $ on too many magazines actually.

What kind of "hunting range" trajectories are you getting with your bullet choices and muzzle velocities?

LeverEvolution I am good out to 250 yds easily with my iron sights.

The XLR is just too long IMO. If I could get one cheap I'd cut it down to 20".

Ingwe

100% spot on. What is the point of having a sveltish lever but with a long barrel. Kinda kills the concept.

My 22" 1895 seems to balance perfectly. Any longer would be muzzle heavy, any shorter would be muzzle light, but to each his own.

I love mine! Simply no use for an abbreviated version. According you your line of logic I should chop my 1886 45/90 too?

That looks about right from my experience with a GG and 3 Marlins with 22" tubes.
I think the standard model (22")is the right compromise. I, personally, like the pistol grip over the straight grip, and you'll get all the velocity needed to 300 yds even with 400s. My favorite loads are two: a 405 Rem at 2100 fps and a 465gr hardcast at 1900 fps. That'll get 'er done on anything in N.A.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

No I would not chop that of course.

When I hear Marlin big bore the first thing that comes to my mind is elk in the timber. To me that spells guide gun. If I carry the XLR might as well carry my 300 RUM.

Really it just boils down to personal preference.

If I'm gonna haual an XLR around I may as well carry my 700CDL in .30-06.

You guys realize you are talking 6 inches or less of barrel length? And very little gain in weight...... Kind of like picking fly schitt out of pepper. If you like the looks that is one thing, but an increase in speed of use? Not buying it.

Almost no velocity gain but much more cumbersome and awkward.

Only if you are mentally handicapped. If you like the looks fine, but don't try to feed me a line of bullschitt.

Like I said....not buying it. I have used both. XLR is just as quick in handling as a guide gun. Besides if I wanted to carry a short gun I would carry a Model 29.

I've carried both as well. For less than 100fps velocity gain????

Can't help it if you are so weak you cannot handle an extra ounce or 2. My condolences! At the risk of repeating myself it is a only a matter of aesthetics.

It's the extra foot of gun hanging up on everything in sight that's the pits. I guess if you never get out of a heated box blind or the truck cab it isn't so bad.

Come to FL and I'll show you the swamp;)

You funny Swampy...that comment shows you don't know schitt about me. Been to FL....you been to WY? Also shows you think 2 inches is 6. Merry Christmas Swampy!

I don't know anything about you but I know I wouldn't own an XLR for 1/2 price unless I could have a gunsmith cut it to 20". I'm a hunter and I need tools I can use.

Ingwe

You funny man! If you don;t knwo anything about me then don't make assumptions......

So you need to have a 20" barrel to be a hunter.....hmmm new one on me.

I've made no assumptions. I just don't use a wrench for a hammer. Hauling all that extra barrel around for nothing is pointless.

It's your story....tell it any way you want...

Ingwe

Just in case anyone is interested i got word from a friend of mine who works at Marlin Firearms that there is Big problems with the new 338 Marlin as well as some of the .308 Marlin rifles. Seems the loads are a little to much for the action and are causing to much springing and some are locking up tighter than a cat's butt on a cold winter night. Being i live here in CT. and only a few miles away from the plant as well as have a lot of friends who work there and who have worked there and now are retired like me i get the scoop on everything new first hand and usually long before it becomes public knowledge. If anyone recalls years back Marlin tried to reinvent the wheel by coming out with there version of the .307 & .356 caliber Extended Range cartridges in there 336 model rifle as well as the .375 Winchester caliber & the .307-.356 which Winchester came out with first in ther Big Bore 94 Model. They both died off in a very short time, both the Winchester Big Bore's as well as the Marlin's. Same problem with the Marlin but not winchester being they built a bigger Stronger version of the original 94 and called it the big bore as mentioned in part of this letter. In any event they did not learn much from there mistakes. Now they come out with it again and give it a new name and model name as well and it's come back to bite them again. There is nothing wrong with the rifle/action as long as they stick with the original calibers it was designed for. The .308 marlin and the .338 Marlin are just to much for the action design of this rifle. They should have either beefed it up like Winchester did or go to a much stronger action like the Browning BLR Lever which is chambered in all kinds of calibers as well as magnum's as well as .308 Win & .358 win. calibers which are far more superior to any of them as well as there .338 Marlin which is nothing more than a copy of the New Federal .388 cartridge which is a .308 Win. Case necked up to .338 diameter. Enough said. If you want .308 Winchester capability/speed & power then buy a .308 winchester caliber rifle and if you want it in a lever then buy a browning and you will not regret it. I have owned both the .308 & .358 Winchester in the Browning and they are very well built and very accurate as well and function flawlessly. The bottom line is always wait and see if it new then it is best to wait it out. Just some old time advice from an olf timer. P.S. I love Marlin's and own several as well as have owned many over the years.

So what is this then?

Ingwe, that is funny!

..and that is funny. Don't you hate it when you find out you're the bait.

elky76, good lookin' all the way around!

My guide gun is for hauling through the thicket, and swamps which i do MOST of the time. I HATE, carrying anything longer then my guide gun in the thick stuff..

When i was making my choice, I went with what looked better to me..and the XLR was NOT it.

-On a side note, I have shot one that shot great! But, my guide gun shooting 350 grain buffalo bores to an inch or less at a hundred yards, I wouldn't trade for the world.

Man I have more people on ignore on this thread than those whom I can see. I've never seen a forum without a moderator until now.

Just proves how ignorant you are....You just want to be the Forum Nazi is all. IF you don't agree with it, then it must be wrong. You are a First Class Azzhat!

On top of that you don't ignore anyone, you keep coming back to peek! We own you! bwaaahahahahaaaaa!!!