Okay fella's, need some advice.

I have recently had rotator cuff surgery and can't shoot my Ruger No. 1 with full bore loads this deer season until i heal up more. My wife would also like to shoot the gun some and try to take her first deer with it this fall.

I will only be hunting whitetail deer with this

So, i'm looking for some light recoiling handloads. I figure the lighter the bullet, the better (recoil wise)? If so, Barnes makes a 250 grain bullet that should do well. I'm just wondering what velocity and how many grains of what powder will get it there effectively with the least amount of recoil. The farthest shot will be 100 to 125 yards, but mostly under 50 yards.

I also muzzleloader hunt with a Savage smokeless muzzleloader. I shoot 250 grain barnes mz expanders out of it, with a small amount of Accurate Arms 5744 behind it (pushes is around 2000fps) and it is a great deer load.

I suppose a 300 grain bullet would also work well. Just figured the smaller the weight, the less recoil.

Also, on powders. In the savage muzzleloader, it seems the Accurate Arms pushing the same weight bullet the same velocity recoils less than other powders. So, if powders play a role in recoil, i'm all ears on that too.

I'm new to reloading, sorry for all the questions! Hoping this is the place to learn from those who have been down these roads. I love the 45-70, just need some lighter stuff to hunt with until i heal up and for the wife to shoot.

Thanks

The AA-5744 would be a good powder to use in light 45-70 loads, and using the 250 grain Barnes results in a pretty good reduction of recoil, noticeably less than a 300 grain bullet, so you seem to be headed in the right direction. Having NOT used 5744, I'll let someone who has recommend a charge weight, but I would start looking at the bottom end of the Trapdoor loads. This should get you in the 15 ft-lb area of recoil, or about like a .30-30, and should be sufficient for deer at 100 yards or under, especially under 50 yards.

The role powder plays in recoil is that the charge weight is a part of the recoil calculation, so if you use a faster powder, resulting in a lighter charge, all else being equal, the recoil will be slightly less.

14 gr of Trail Boss will get you about 1200 fps and no recoil.

With what bullet? The 250Grn Barnes?

I've been looking @ the Barnes reloading manual. Looking here, http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/45-70Marlin1895Web.pdf ,i'm trying to figure out how much i would reduce powder in the loads.

Thanks for your replies so far.

12gr Unique under a 405gr cast gives me 1050 fps, 900 ft-lbs. Very mild recoil.

Zero'd at 100 yards, it's +/- 3" out to about 115 yards, but drops like a rock after that, down 36" at 200 yards.

That is what I run for my fun loads is the 405 cast and unique. I think I am running a little more than that though, closer to 1200 fps.

I've done a little testing with Unique. These are all very easy on the shoulder.

Marlin 18.5" bbl.

405gr Laser Cast
Unique
16gr - 1300 fps
15gr - 1250 fps
12gr - 1050 fps

Recoil figures in a 7.5 lb rifle:

16 gr. - 15.3 Ft-lbs
15 gr. - 14.1 Ft-lbs
12 gr. - 9.8 Ft-lbs

All what I would consider mild, especially if you are used to the hotter .45-70 loads.

I use 25 grains of AA5744 with a 405 grain home cast wheel weight water quenched bullet. I think the velocity is somewhere around the 1200 - 1250 fps mark, but I have not chrono'd it. Small bump on the shoulder out of my Marlin 1895, and very accurate. Don't see using premium bullets at that low a speed, but whatever lights your sparkler.

And welcome to the fire, in case no one has done that yet.

Thanks for the welcome.

Only reason for the premium bullets is they are the only one's i have seen that come in 250grn which i thought would produce the least amount of recoil.

I have some IMR 4198 on hand and some Accurate Arms 5744. Any suggest starting point on powder and how many grains behind these 250grn Barnes?

There is just VERY little info on these 250grn bullets in a 45-70 avail.

Thanks for everyone's reply so far. Great info.

Next question:

If i were to use Unique powder in those same amounts with the 250grain Barnes, how could i get a rough assumption of velocity without a chronograph?

Question 2:

As an example, if i used 16grains of Unique with the 250 grain bullet, how would CUP pressure be? Seems like it would be more with the larger bullet, but i may be wrong. Like i said, i'm new to reloading.

I appreciate all the responses.

Well, you've got a couple of differences in what you are trying to do, mainly substituting a mono-metal bullet for a cast lead. Cast lead bullets tend to, all else being equal, generate lower pressure than jacketed bullets, and the early Barnes bullets were known for causing pressure peaks earlier than a typical jacketed bullet. The TSX addresses the pressure issue by having bands. So, without thinking too much, I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure was fairly close.

My straight-up guess would be the Barnes bullet would be a little faster than the cast lead used in the example load, but I would keep an open mind and let the chronograph tell me.

I've never attempted what you are trying to do to this degree, but I have substituted cast lead for jacketed, but the weights were much closer.

Bear in mind that on my part, this is a SWAG, and I'm also waiting to see what answers someone comes forth with supported with empirical data, cause you've gotten me interested.

I also emailed Barnes.

I will copy and paste the reply they send me.

Thanks again.

Unique might not be so good with monometal and more resistance at obturation. Pressure peaks could get a little sporty.

I'm hoping either AA 5744 (preferred) or IMR 4198 will work, since i have both on hand.

Seems like the AA5744 should work from the reading i've done on it.

I agree on the 5744

Powder Weight Velocity Load Velocity
(grains) (fps) (fps)
XMR 2015 47.0 1585 51.0 1720
RL7* 44.0 1641 48.0 1790
H4198* 44.0 1623 48.0 1771
H322 47.0 1550 51.0 1682
H4895 48.0 1507 52.0 1633
IMR 3031 47.0 1495 51.0 1622
IMR 4064 48.0 1477 52.0 1600
IMR 4198 38.0 1549 42.0 1712
IMR 4895 48.0 1481 52.0 1604

This is the trapdoor info Barnes sent me.

PM sent

Thanks MontanaMarine for the PM and thanks for everyone that responded.

I'm going to try some AA5744 under some of the 250grain barnes. Will give a report in a week or two.

Email the nice folks at Accurate Arms for suggested loads. I did and they gave me a load very close to what Ranch13 had told me. It works very nicely in both my 45-70 and my 405 Winchester. AA5744 is good coal to burn for slower stuff.