I've always been fascinated by this cartridge and the history behind it. Anyone here have a rifle that is chambered for this round and hunts with it? I want one. How is brass availability and what bullets do you guys like?

I've owned this T/C Encore for about 2 years and haven't hunted it yet. Weight is 6 lbs 10 oz's. I've stocked up on the factory Hornady 300grFN because it was purchased at a really good price. Brass & Bullets are readily available. The recoil with this lite rifle is manageable. I've owned and shot the Ruger #1 but it's just too heavy for my liking. Thinking I'll try it out on a black bear hunt this fall.



I'm also waiting on a friend to make some cast bullets to try. He owns a Ruger #1 and also purchased a T/C Encore barrel from me.

Ken

I want mine chambered in the Winchester 1895 model, but not the take-down version. Any experience with those? I noticed they are made in Japan but the rifles I have seen appear to be nicely made.

What grain bullets you use and what are the ballistics?

I have a Winchester 1895 (Japanese) in 405 WCF that I bought in 2006, it has been fitted with a recoil pad and XS peep and front sight (the white line is very fast and easy to pick up).

I have hunted with the Hornady factory 300 gr. soft points on deer and pigs, on all 5 occasions it was terminal, closest was 40 yds and the longest was about 85 yds.

I have tested the Hornady FP and Spire Point, they shoot better than I can hold them. I really like the Kodiak 300gr RNSP, this would be the bullet I'd use for bigger stuff.

So far H4895, RL15 and Varget have worked well for accuracy and velocity.

The Hornady brass has been durable and seems to be of good quality. I buy a box of it every now and again just to rat hole it away.

I am really enjoying the 405 WCF (I really need to take it moose or elk hunting).

In the mid 1970s had an original Win 1895 that'd had about a half box of shells run through it. It was spooky to shoot because the old, original ammo ignited slowly enough I could hear the hammer slap before the shot went off.

I was 13-14, got the rifle from my mom's dad when he died. My father had no attachment to the rifle. He's an expert on everything, just ask him. He convinced me to sell it because since it wasn't an '06 just like his, it was useless. Same thing for a 3 digit serial numbered Model 70 in .375 H&H.

Personally, I would avoid the newer Winchester rifles with the tang safety. If I'm going to have a tang safety anyway, I'd rather shoot a Ruger #1.

Tom

Found one, M95, without the tang safety, it has a rubber butt pad, a Lyman 66, and shoots the Hornady SPs best. It is one of the "fun guns" I have with no earthly use for. I plan on taking a Meat Bull or Cow Bison with it next year, Teddy would like that. Hope to take on some Hogs in Texas when I move this summer. Buy one and have fun, just stock up on brass and bullets. They might not be around forever.

Buzz Gillis

I have the Ruger #1H in 405 and it is very accurate. Some don't like the weight, but I find with a 300 grain Barnes X heading down range at 2450-2500 fps, the weight helps to calm my nerves. My best powder is Benchmark. Haven't bloodied it yet, but am thinking moose may be on the menu this fall.

I also have a mould for 300 grain cast bullets which I have launched at 1400 using AA5744 and am now trying a load with Blue Dot. They also shoot very accurately, as do 210 JHP 41 Mag pistol bullets.

Hang on, and enjoy!

Back in the 1930/40s/50 Kenneth Anderson used a .405 Winchester ina lever action to hunt several maneating tigers and leopards in India..

He used it basically because it was a cheaper more available option to the class bigbore doubles...In many cases, such doubles were easy to obtain because the ammo was virtually impossible to get...

If you haven't read it, I can fully recommend any of his bookes but especially "Nine Maneaters and One Rogue"

He doesn't dwell in the rilfe, but it does get an honourable (sometimes not so honourable) mention in many of hus books..

By all means, get the 1895 .405 and have fun with it. I like my 1895 TD shooter so much that I bought an unfired Deluxe looker just to look at and show off to folks.



I use factory Hornady 300 grain FP for hogs, deer, antelope and such, but handloaded some North Fork 300 grain bullets (SP, CPS, and FPS) at a velocity of 2250 fps for more serious stuff.
http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/blog/?p=204

I have also loaded Hornady 400 gr solids of .410 diameter up to 2050 and they shoot well also. The 400 grain project has moved on to Woodleigh .411 bullets and a target velocity of 2100+ fps.

Do a search here and you'll see lots of data and opinions. I've been loading 300GR TSX and RL-15 with real good results. Shelton, I'd be interested in your loads/results of your 400gr 411 solids@2100. jorge

Jorge,
Not there yet with the 400 Woodleighs. Bought the RSI Shooting Lab and Pressure Trace II kit and will install strain gage on two rifles before further testing of heavy loads.
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/index.htm

I will let you know how it works out.

Excellent. I'm looking into having some 300gr solids made up given the 1895's mag length limitations. I'm very interested in what you come up with!

Jorge,
I have had very good luck with the NF 300 grain FPS and CPS bullets in my 1895 with no magazine problems.At 2250 fps they shoot to the same point of aim as do the factory Hornady 300 grain jacketed flat points.

If you need more powder space and want to shoot through steel plates (or elephant heads) you might want to have Belt Mountain make you up some 300 and 400 grain Punch bullets at .411 diameter or work with Mike Rintaul at Grizzly Cartridge for loads to meet your needs.

Mike made up some heavy custom .45-90 loads for my 1886 a while back (a friend took it to Africa for some DG bullet testing) and last Friday I used that ammo to slap down a running bison with a shoulder shot. We called Mike that day and thanked him for making ammo to do just what was asked.

Thanks, Shelton, I did not know NF was making 300gr CPS/FPS... I'll check them out./ What load are you running? I have shot 300gr NF soft points using 56gr of RL-15 with similar velocities as well as 300gr TSXs. I really don't want to get into the 400gr bullets.

How is the recoil? The 1895 models don't seem to offer much for a recoil pad.

Steel recoil pad. Still, mild recoil in my opinion about equal to a 375 H&H.

Of course one must keep in mind that Brother Jorge DID have lotsa carrier impacts (landings??) so his definitions may be very subjective to say the least!!

well yeah, to me a 375 falls under "mild"

I would like to find an old 71/86 type lever rifle in 405 Win, never seen one.

Gunner

Did they even make them in that caliber? I don't think so.

Jorge, dont think so either, but dang, it would so right if they did. A 26" octagon barrel chambered in 405 Win. would drip coolness <GRIN>

Gunner

yes!

Jorge Im thinkin' to much again, how's about an old shot out pitted bore 1886 in 33 WCF, re-bored and re-rifled to 405 Win, and a nice cased receiver from Turnbull and an oil finish on the stocks!!! YIKES.........I MUST NOT CALL TURNBULL...REPEAT, I MUST NOT CALL TURNBULL!

Gunner

Isn't a .405 round too long for an 1886 action? Thought I read that somewhere. An 86 in .405 would be cool though.

ken458, not sure, but I got a 50-110 Win. on a custom '86, and IIRC somebody is chambering the 45-90 on the '86 as well.

Gunner

Yep, 405 max. COL is 3.175, my 50-110's are 2.8, so yes it may be a little long.

Gunner

Interesting...and probably part of the reason the 1895 Winchester was invented (to handle the longer cartridges).

YOU MUST< YOU MUST!

Here are my two:







Both are still virgins but hopefully one or both will draw blood this year as they are both on the roster to get some time in the woods this season.

I have a new one (Jap made) the TR African Safari Centennial in 405 Winchester. I plan to take it to Africa on my next trip and hopefully shoot a buffalo with it. It is a marginal round for this task in my opinion, but hell TR did it as well as Ossa Johnson and with today's bullets I think I can do better. My loads are 55/5gr of RL-15 with a F210 match primer. Bullets are two types here, 300gr North Fork soft points and 300gr Barnes TSXs @ 2200 fps (original fact specs). I've also ordered some 300gr North Fork solids that hopefully I can get to shoot to POI and velocities. The range was sixty yards. Two close together are one North Fork and one TSX.

At the ranges I expect that you will engage, that is better than you actually need. Purty good for an aggregate of two different slugs.

The solids will wrap this experiment up, but I believe either the North Fork softs of the TSXs will be more than enough.

Nice pictures and nice rifles. I want one in my hands for one of my upcoming spring bear hunts. I'll probably just buy a Jap-made 1895 and rock on.

Do all the 1895s lack sling studs?

Hi Jorge,
I have not located my misplaced load log, but will send you the approximat load for the North Fork 300 gr bullets later this weekend. Going pigeon shooting over grainfields tomorrow and Saturday.

BTW, one reason that I settled on the NF bullets at 2250 fps, is that the cup point solid is classified as an expanding bullet and it shoots to the same point of aim as the NF flat point solid and soft point, as well as the factory Hornady 300 grainers; no sight adjustment or Kentucky holdover needed... So, load 1895 magazine with the FPS first and then the CPS. Use the CPS for the first shot at tough game and you are in business.

cr: So far I have the TSXs and NF softs shooting to POI so I'm hoping the solids will follow suit but I expect a different powder charge as the solids mike @.413 and the softs@ .411. Current load is 56.5gr RL-15 behind a F210 primer jorge

Jorge,
I did not locate my log book, but did find my notes made when calculating starting and maximum loads. I started with IMR 4895 which I have used in other calibers, but dropped it because it did not meter smoothly and did not respond to the drop tube as well as some other powders; I gave it to my son for his .308.

Of all the available powder choices, I chose VV N133 because it did meter well, did respond well to the drop tube, and because of advice from usually reliable sources who informed me that though other powders might yield 100-150 fps more velocity than N133, at the optimum N133 load point, N133 would generate fine accuracy and significantly lower pressures that those other powders. Since this was my first go at loading this caliber, I opted for safety and less recoil and tried N 133 and TAC (which has a similar burn rate to some recommended ball powders, all of which meter very well and respond very well to the drop tube). There were also some good Internet loads referenced on both of these powders for the .405 300 and 400 grain bullets.

OUTCOME was that with my rifle and my chrony, the midrange N133 load of 53.2 grains with all three NF 300 grain bullets (SS, CPS, FPS) exactly matched the Hornady factory 300 grain flat point bullets at 2250 fps. They also all shot to the same point of aim! So,I stopped my tests at that point and still have never fired the max loads of 55.6 grains(should salvage the components one of these days). The TAC trial loads were OK, but not as satisfactory.

Another reason that I chose the 53.2 gr load was that the average velocity increase per grain dropped off after 53.2 and approached zero before reaching the max load, so rather than waste time and components tweaking up by tenths of a grain, I quit while I was ahead.

You may find that your present load stated in your last post is just fine for the NF solids, and I would certainly try that load first.

Just some thoughts on the 405.......
405 is an interesting round but if you want a serious 40 caliber lever gun, pick up a BLR in 30-06, send it off to Fred Zegin and get it made into a 411 Hawk.
Considerably more thump, can be twisted for 400s (which the 405 is not).
Ballistics exceed the 450/400 which killed everything that walked.
Shorter lever throw, detachable magazine, take down available, scope mounting option, no big box hanging out the bottom to make field carry a pain in the butt and so on.
Another neat option to equal the 405 w/300 gr bullets is to buy a detach magazine 99 in 308. Buy a 284 magazine. Get the 99 rebored and rechambered to a 411/284.
Same powder capacity with 300 grainers as a 400 Whelen which also outstrips the 405. Again a sleek, low scope rifle.
405 has nostalgia in spades, especially in the 95'. If you want ballistics there are better choices in both the #1 or lever guns.
Once owned a "real" 1895 in 405 with the horrible rifle buttplate. Tried a few "full house" 300 gr loads ...... talk about pain ! Nice cast bullet gun and now in a Winchester lover's collection.
Good shootin to all.

Who originated that famous line that went "A difference of opinion is what makes a horse race."?

Will Rogers 1879 - 1935. He actually said "A difference of opinion is what makes horse racing and missionaries."

thanks, CR. I'm going to look up burn rates of your powder an RL15 and see how they fare. Just looked it up, quite a difference in burn rates. jorge

Vihta Vuori powder is really good stuff. I use N135 quite a bit. Give CR's loads a good look see Jorge. I get very decent 20-25fps for 10 shot string hi-low. w/N135 as my example (NOT in 405),but it seems to be quite uniform stuff all around.

I'll check it out if the RL15 stuff doesn't pan out. But man there is a HUGE difference in burn rates between the two powders!

Don't post on my thread.

I have a Japanese 1895 in 405 and it is a great shooter as well though I needed to sand down the front stock where it buts into the receiver to get it shooting it's best. I like the Hornady 300 Spitzers though it shoots the FP's a bit better. Lots of fun. I just slipped on a slip on recoil pad over the steel butt-plate and the weight takes care of recoil. Have replaced the sights with a post front and a Williams Fool Proof rear and it shoots as well as I can. Lots of charisma and should handle anything in North America up to 200 yds or so.

*** You are ignoring this user ***

I wanted a 405 long before Winchester re-made them. I couldn�t help myself when they came out. It was a perfect buffalo gun.

I've got one of the new Winchester 95s.
I can't think of a thing I'd change.
I use it as a cast bullet only gun, no sense using jacketed slugs.

Jim

Sweet! what ammo did you use, distance, etc. Details man, details!

Very nice bison. Tonight we had medallions of Bison backstrap from the one I took with my 1886 .45-90 earlier this month. Yummy.
I agree that the 1895 .405 is a great rifle for buffalo, but since I had used mine to take a water buffalo two years ago, it was the 1886 turn to feed the extended family.

A meat bull or cow is on my bucket list with the .405 and the Win M95. Can't think of a better way to get some low cholesterol red meat. Teddy would like it ever so much.

Buzz Gillis

Successful mission men. Matched the North Fork solids to POI with the North Fork Softs as well as the TSX. Three shots in the bull are one of each and the two about 2" above were before sight adjustment at 60 yards. Velocities were 2207, 2210 and 2230 respectively. Incidentally, these targets, when laid at about a 45 deg angle, almost match the kill zone traingle of a Cape Buff exactly. I'm ready...

From one of the guys over on AR, it CAN BE DONE!

Shot the bison/buffalo with factory Hornady Custom 300gr, haven't reloaded for it yet because I haven't shot it much since the hunt. Didn't see any reason to reload before the hunt because the first 3 shots out of the gun cloverleafed on the bullseye at 50 yard. I couldn't belive how it shot! I actueally knocked the center out of the target with the first shot out of the gun and had to walk to the taget to confirm. Shot number 4 killed the buffalo. The guide said he had never seen a buffalo knocked off his feet like the 405 did. Said he had seen buffalo shot with 375H&H and not knocked down like this one did. Bullet had about 75% weight retention, and was stuck just under the off side skin. Shot at 75ish yards right behind the front shoulder. Gave me a bad itch to start a 405 buffalo colection, maybe water buff, and a cape buff?? Think I'll reload for those.....

This Bison was the best $1500 I have ever spent hunting. I will do it again. My 12 year old actually asked me often when I am going to go shoot another one. Very good eating!

Great report, thanks!

Jorge,
Looks like you are ready! Have a good hunt and remember to report with pictures.

BTW, I did slap down a bison last month with my .45-90. I will do a post on it soon as I get time.

Shelton: I ordered some VV133 to try out and I'll report back. What primers do you use? I'm using F210s. jorge

The 405 is a good cartridge. With powders available today it can do alot of things that it couldn't when it was new.
Using powders like rl12 (discontinued) and rl15 it's quite easy to put a 300 gr bullet over the 2300 fps mark.
You can also load 400 gr bullets with the rifles 14 inch twist it'll handle them alright, but the throats on a saami spec reamer are a little short , so the bullets have to be seated pretty deep in the case. Also getting them to the oal to cycle thru a 95's action almost does away with any benefits.
It's also a great cast bullet cartridge. Buffalo Arms has a .413 diameter 300 gr gas check bullet that is both exceptionally accurate and has a meplat that is more than sufficient for hunting. AA 5744 powder is the best I've found in my rifle with cast.
Recoil is significant,but the addition of a recoil pad to the new winchester 95's is helpful in both lenghting the pull and taming the recoil.

Ranch: Been working with RL-15 but it seems velocity "flattens out" right at 56-7 grains so I'm going to give VV 133 a try. I just want to get to 2250 and actually I'll take the original 2200 specs.

Yes many powders do that in straight wall cases, what that's telling you is that's all the powder that case and bullet can use and to go further up in charge weight is just an excercise in burning powder.
4895 will put you smack dab on the original ballistics.(see hogdons data)
4320 is a powder that should work very well.
Ramshot Biggame is a powder I had intended to try in the 405, but I got side tracked with it in the 30-30 ai, and ended up shooting the whole can up and never got a round of 405 loaded with it. ( Accurate as hell in the ai,velocity wasn't great but you can head shoot coyotes at 200 yds all day long...)
Anyway keep in mind that generally ball powders slow in burn rate when loaded in a straightwalled case.

RL-15 seems to be that powder. I'll try H4895 if the VV doesn't give me what I want, but if you read CRshelton's post, it appears VV 133 is the ticket. 2250 fps and same POI with a variety of bullets.

That's about what 4895 did for me 10 years ago. Rl 12 combined the speed and accuracy in my rifle, and Rl 15 does almost as well as 12 but not quite.
4320 should work really well,as by accounts I recieved from oldtimers, they liked it and the old Hivel 2.
I found my load years ago and see no reason to look further, I stocked up on rl 12 and have enough Glenrock Northfork bullets to last me a lifetime and then some of hunting.

How far was that nice elk when you whacked him and what bullet did you use?

Prior to his posing for that picture he was out about 60 yds, when the 300 gr northfork ss backed by 57 grs rl12 sparked by a cci lr primer, wrecked his whole day and made me work the rest of the afternoon to get us back to the house.

got 297 grs of that bullet back in one chunk from underneath the hide on the far side.

Sweet! thanks for the info. Man I love my 1895. Just might have to get me another!

Great stuff! Loving the pictures and the info you guys are sharing. I'm gonna hide some cash and find and buy me an 1895 this winter. This model is the only lever that I care for and like.

Jorge,
I used CCI250 primers.
These loads were compressed with a 24" drop tube and loaded into a long straight walled case, so it seemed appropriate to use the "magnum" primer to help assure good ignition.

Jorge,
You are correct, One 1895 is not enough!
My shooter and my looker:

CR: Loaded some a couple of days ago and had no problems getting that powder into the case. Hell, I was loading 56.5 of RL15 and long TSX bullets with no issues. So I loaded some TSXs, NF soft and solids and some Woodleighs, all with your loads. I'll report back when I get to shoot them. Also, I found a near mint in the box 1895 Grade I for under a grand. It will be here Wednesday

Jorge,
Sounds like you hit the jackpot on your new rifle - Please publish pictures when you get it. My looker 1895 .405 is an unfired Deluxe and they sure are pretty.

Oh yes, also looking forward to see how the N133 works for you.

It's supposed to arrive today via FEDEX. As far as the range goesm I won't be able to get out there until Sat or Sunday now that I'm back working for a living.

Jorge,
When you publish photos of your new 1895, why not start another thread?

BTW, I just received and viewed the video of my bison hunt and will post it if I can isolate the final, running shot that swatted the bison down. Pretty cool stuff.

Roger that Cr. I should have them up this weekend. I just ordered a period correct Pad from Galazan's to replace the metal plate. I left the Safari Commemorative "as is" for obvious reasons and while recoil is not bad, that metal plate will hurt you of the bench when it pinches!

I am eagerly awaiting results of burned said powder and ball!!!

Hi Jorge,

For sure one 95 is not enough! Like you i'm planing some african trail tour but ain't enough money to copy Teddy. So will be buffalos only in Mozambique. I'm balancing between my 71 .50Alaskan already very successful in Australia of on a 405 mod95. May be the take down...I don't know.
Think you will be well armed. As you do i load with VN133 after some test with VN130. Bullets are 300grs Woodleigh, Hornady and Hawk.

Sorry! Posted in the wrong thread but it's also about 405...and 95;

Wow, looks like somebody likes lever actions!
Marseille, my Verney-Carron double should be here within the next three weeks or less. jorge

Hope you'll enjoy it. Yes i like and use lever action for hunting!
Even if majority of hunters speak and dream of long range shooting (hunting??) most of kills can be done with lever and a bit of stalking, just need to stay a bit fit, walk and try to keep weight down.
When well maintained and built "levers" are safe and reliable enough for most game, you can get powerful cartridges and good bullets for most of dangerous one, so why not use them...

Looks like I have the 95 wire. Target on right are three 300gr TSXs and the one on the left are three 300gr North Fork solids. MV was very consistent 2260-2270 fps, but I did have to drop down the charge to 51gr for the TSX and 50.5 for the solid. Range: 65 yards

Now go forth and SLAY!!!

EVen better. Both TSXs and North Fork solids @2260 fps. Range 65 yards.