Considering an 1895 Winchester in .405 anyone have any thoughts on the accuracy, recoil, and successes in the field with the rifle and cartridge?

Compared the ballistics with the 45/70 cartridge. The book I checked listed the .405 recoil factor as less then the 45/70? Not much appears on www research for the 1895 .405, so looking to the experts for info.

Thanks
Have a great day.

Mike

Mr. Mikem,
Though we are not experts, we really like ours. The 300gr bullets have slightly better sectional density than the .45-70; as you probably know. Can't tell any difference in recoil, to speak of, regarding a hot loaded 300gr .45-70 vs 300gr .405 Win.
Best Wishes

I will not discourge you on your endevor to possibly go with the 1895. I will say however that many who pen articles about it and the comparison of it to other big bore cartridges in its class, do not particularly like it.

First, its the firearm. 1895 has what some say is an ill balance and bulkiness to it (long barrel). Most who have shot it always comment on the felt recoil, not the actual ft-lb number, but the ergos of the stock and forarm and lever.

Second, others comment on the poor design of the cartridge and its efficiency. This takes into account its odd caliber size in conjunction with its performance per grains of powder. Consider that the 444 Marlin will push the same weight bullet at the same speed and is quite a bit shorter with less capacity. Now I acknowledge that the 405 Win can shoot spitzers, however most bullet designs for it are round nosers to semi-spitzer types, thus negating any real BC and distance advantage over the 444 Marlin. Both are 200-225 yard guns period. And both are suitable for the same range of game. Except the 444 Marlin comes in a more shootable, fast handling., lighter rifle, which kicks less and gives the same bang for the buck.

Lastly, the 405 Win is not in the same class of killing power as the 45-70, especially when the 45-70 is in a fast handling tube feed lever loaded with 400-600 grain loads. Sectional Density is an archaic determiner these days pertaining to penetration. With the advanced bullets available today, we have solids, bonded cores, GC hard casts, etc, for the 45-70. Loaded hot with any of the premium designs with 400 grains and up it will give 5 ft of penetration in big animals. So much for SD.

If it is a historical itch you wish to fill, by all means fill it. But if its performance and versatility in the field you seek, the 444 Marlin or 45-70 Gov in a tube feed lever are much more appealing, to me any way.

Take Care,
rossi

I don't agree that the 405 is any less of a cartridge that the 444 or 45/70.

I have no experience with the 444, but I currently own a 1895/405 and owned a 1895 Marlin 45/70.

Rossi, I am not sure what loads you are looking at but neither the 444 or 45/70 push loads as fast as the 405. My new Nosler manual shows a Ruger NO 1 45/70 load pushing a 300 grain bullet 2282 FPS and Buffalo Bore has a 300 grain 444 load advertised @ 2150 FPS. Hodgdon lists a 405 300 grain bullet @ 2404 FPS. That is 122 FPS faster than the 45/70 and 254 FPS faster than the 444.

I will say the the 45/70 will throw the heavier bullet (over 400 grains) somewhat faster. The 405 is no slouch. The 405 can be loaded with hardcast, bonded, conventional and solid bullets.

Oh and by the way, both my 1895's kick like mules!

4x4,

I never said it was less of a cartridge than the 444 Marlin, they are in fact ballistically equal and rated on optimal game weight tables equally. A 444 Marlin loaded properly will push a jacketed 300 at 2200 fps and even faster if loaded in a Win 94 Big Bore. This is out of a fast handling 20 inch spout. 330 GC cast could be driven to 2300 gr. + and 355 gr. to 2100 fps. Either way, the 405 has nothiing on the 444 Marlin in terms of its ability to kill big game. You may squeeze another 100-150 fps out of the long barreled 405, but the 444 Marlin opens up a larger hole. I'll take the larger hole.

As far as the 45-70, you may try to convince yourself that the 405 is somehow equal, but its not and no amount of nostalgic use in Africa will make it so. More surface area on those SP bullets combined with more weight equates to expansion over an 1.25" and massive wound channels, not to mention penetration par excellence.

As far as using the Ruger No. 1, go load some 45-70s with a 500 grain Hornady solid roundnose at 1875 fps. See how well the 405, 300 grain measures up to that in penetration.

I've got no axe to grind here, I just feel the 405 is antiquated in design and in field use. its just not my cup of tea; however it may trip someone elses trigger and thats fine. Its a big tent we all live under.

Take Care,
rossi

If you're recoil sensitive the 405 ain't the rifle you want. I shoot the 95 in 405 and a 45-70 sharps. The sharps with 500 gr bullets is more comfortable in an extended range session.
I like the ballistics deliverd by the 405 when loaded with upper limit handloads. 2400 fps is quite possible with the 300 gr bullets, and 1900 is reported by Hogdons as quite possible with the woodleigh 400 gr .
My rifle will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yds with its favorite handloads of 57 grs of Rx 12 and Northforks 300 gr ss .411 bullet.
I find the 95 more comfortable to carry on a long days hunt than any of the Marlin rifles.
Winchester introduced it as the most powerful leveraction cartridge , Hornady says its still that way, and I am a big fan of it.
If you want a powerful, accurate big bore levergun its my opinion the Win. 95 in 405 won't dissappoint you.

Say 4x4, I got to wondering if you were able to 405 your elk or not?

Thanks for the information on the .405 1895. Still undecided on the rifle. I have an 1895 in 30-06 that is a very good rifle, accurate with factory loads and carries well for a day in the woods.

But, the 45/70 ballistics makes for a tough comparison with the .405 ballistics.

hmmm, the .405 has something about it.

thanks

M

If you look close at the ballistics tables they'll soon tell you the 405 shoots flatter farther and hits harder than anything you can sanely run thru a 45-70 levergun. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Plus if you want low recoil mild blasting loads a load can be cooked up with any of the 41 mag pistol bullets.

Mikem, you might want to take a look over at z-hat.com. They can take that '06 and convert it to a .411 Hawk. They show 300 gr bullets at 2500 fps, and 400's at 2159.

Rossi,

I have to say again that I have never owned a 444 Marlin. But from the information I have it is not near the 405 ballistically. Even when both are shot out of 24" barrels.

You are right the 444 is bigger. But, I don't think a game animal will notice the difference between a .411 and .429.

The 45/70 is a round that I know. I have used it and reloaded for it. I used 350 GR Hornady @ about 1950 FPS. I have never loaded 500 GR bullets into anything. Shoot, 1875 FPS is approaching 458 Winchester power. I will admit that the 405 is no 458 Winchester.

A little debate is good!

Ranch,

NO, I did not use mine to shoot an Elk. My Elk hunting season turned to crap. Was all packed up to go to Ennis and my hunting buddy cancelled-the night of. Long story, involved a woman and menopause.

4x4 that stinks, but there's always next year. And spring bear is just around the corner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

4x4,

You are right, debate is good. Please help me understand the logic in your statement however. Your info says the 444 Marlin is not near the 405 Win ballistically.

444 Marlin, 300 grain jacketed load out of a 20" Winchester 94 big bore at 2300 fps.

ME: 3525 ft-lbs
Thornily Relative Stopping Power: 187
Taylor KO: 42

444 Marlin's use on big game is rated for optimum game up to elk, moose, grizz, brown bear, leopard and lion.


405 Win, 300 grain jacketed load out of a 24" 1895 Winchester at 2400 fps. I'll give you the extra 100 fps even though all factory loads are at 2200 fps just like the 444 Marlin's 2200 fps.

ME: 3,800 ft-lbs
Thornily Relative Stopping Power: 190
Taylor KO: 42

405 Win's use on big game is rated for optimum game up to elk, moose, grizz, brown bear, leopard and lion.


--Please help me understand how the 444 Marlin's ballistics are not near that of the 405 Win? And how come all the experts say it is?

Take Care,
rossi

Rossi assuming that velocity can be achieved with the 444 and keep the gun together, you need to look at a point somewhere beyond the muzzle to see how bullet shape effects down range trajectoy. Once you get to 100 yds and beyond the 405 maintains a pretty good lead.

Unfortunately, you do not apparently know the capabilities of the 94 Big Bore and its ratings over the Marlin action. 280 CorBons are routinely shot out of the Marlin with 22-inch barrel at 2310 fps. The 444 Marlin is loaded in the Marlin action to about 44,000 psi. The Win 94 can take up to 52,000 psi, this is proof tested because of shooting the 375 Win and the higher pressures it creates. Don't get hung up on the old garbage that everyone else in the past has done by thinking the 444 is somehow merely a 100 yard cartridge. This is hog wash. There is absolutely no real world trajectory that separates the 405 and the 444 Marlin. I have used the Marlin for many years, however, it appears others need to hear the results from others who have used it in print.

Layne Simpson in Sept of 2003 took a tundra caribou at 247 yards with a jacketed 280 grain Swift A-frame over 52 grains of H322 in a Marlin rifle. This yielded 2250fps. Gee, I thought the 444 Marlin was a brush gun good for only 100 yards, well according to you it is.

You tell me in real world figures how much flatter the trajectory of a 405 Win is over a 444 Marlin at 250 yards with a 300 grain bullet with a 175 yard zero.

I can tell you this, it is indistiguishable as far as any difference in holdover or ME at that distance. Maybe you guys know something the rest of us don't know about the mythical ballistics of the 405 Win. Please let me in on the secret, I'm willing to learn.

rossi

As far as I can tell noone has said the 444 is a bad or a short range cartridge. But it is no 405.
There have been several posts here pointing out the ballistic advantage of the 405 (no matter how slight) over the 444. You say you're willing to take a look and learn something but I'm afraid your bilgerence has prevented you from doing that.
I'm glad you like the 444, I do like it to. After several years of studying on the 405 and after the last few years of actually shooting the thing I've come to the conclusion its way underrated and misunderstood by those who haven't used it much the same as the 444.

I'm not trying to be beligerant in any way, I am simply asking you guys to show me compared ballistics. The so called bullet shape advantage is somewhat of a hoax as the 405 Win 300 grain spitzer type bullet does not offer a great BC.

One need to look only to the best of those designs from Hornady, which offers one of the best 405 Win Spitzers. Compare the ballistics on their charts to their FN design and you will find that over 200 yards the spitzer shoots 0.4" flatter over 200 yards and 0.88 inches flatter over 300 yards.

Both are launched at 2200 fps.

Again I ask, what real world advantage is that over a 444 Marlin FN in the field?

I have stated from the beginning that they are equal in all measures. You and others keep telling me that somehow the 405 Win has such greater ballistic potential over the 444 Marlin, but you do not supply any reasoning, just conjecture with no proof.

I do not mean to offend, I just want real world proof.

rossi

Well maybe you could help me out and direct me to some tested data that shows the 300 gr bullet doing 2200 out of the 444. I can't find anything that comes terribly close to that.

I will post some loadings from the so-called experts.

Paco Kelly and his work from "Reloading the 444 and 375". Again there are differences between the pressure limits of an 1895 Marlin action and 94 Win Big Bore. You won't find these in any standard loading manual.

From the Marlin 95 w/22 inch barrel:

Speer 300 gr w/52 gr. ReL#7, yields 2335v/3632ME
Hornady 300 gr. XTP w/52 gr. ReL#7, yields 2341v/3651ME
Speer 300 gr w/59 gr. H335 yields 2292v/3500ME
Hornady 300 gr. XTP w/59 gr. H355, yields 2333v/3626ME

In the 94 Win BB:
Keith HC 250 gr. w/52 gr. 4198, yields 2660v/3928ME
LBT Cast Performance 330 gr.HC yields 2262v/3750ME

Kelly's loads in the 95 Marlin are at the top end and he refers to them as "warm top load". On the Win 94 he calls the Keith 250 gr. an "excellent load" and the 330 LBT a "Heavy Load"


From Layne Simpson's Range work in a Marlin 95 w/22-inch barrel:

Swift A Frame 300 gr. w/48 gr. AA1680, yields 2221v
Factory 280 gr. CorBon at 2344v
Factory 305 FMJ CorBon at 2160v

In the cast bullet field, Marshall Stanton has pushed 330 grain gas checks out of the Marlin 95 at 2250v, 355 grains at 2150v. See the Beartooth website.

I think you would acknowledge that the 444 Marlin runs neck and neck with the 405 Win as far as ballistics and optimum game weight use on animals. Both Paco Kelly and Marshall Stanton, who may be the premier handloaders of the 444 Marlin believe the 330-355 grain HC GC bullets of today would kill any of the thick skin DG. I suspect the CorBon 305 FMJ load would do the same.

Again, I am saying the 405 Win and 444 Marlin are equal in every respect, no disrespect to anyone was intended.

Take Care,
rossi

Spirited information exchange. Still on the fence. My 1886 45/70 is one of my favorite rifles, the 45/70 trajectory may not be 'flat' by any means. But a proven cartridge just as the .444. Just challenging to obtain data on the .405 ballistics and near term 1895 .405 rifle reviews/results.

The 1895 .405 definetely has my attention.

Thank for the info.

mikem,

The 45-70 with its +P type loadings will shoot just as flat as the above with 350 grain loadings and reach out at 200 yards easy with the 400 grain class bullet loadings. It offers even more power than either the 444 Marlin or 405 Win loadings.

rossi

Mike if you wound a 350 gr bullet up in the 45-70 to 2000 with a 100 yd zero its 12.6 inches low at 200 yds vel 1254 fps and energy of 1222. The 300 gr spitzer from the 405 factory loaded at 2200 fps with a 100 yd zero is 8.3 in low at 200 1610 fps and 1727 energy.
Like I stated before my 405 shoots its tightest groups ( 1inch 4shot) with the 300 gr bullets at 2300-2350. I've pushed it beyond 2400 but accuracy dropped off

Any Idea what pressure (approximate) you are at with this load? I can't afford the North fork bullet so am trying to get the Hornady 300FP & Mt. Baldy 300 LFN-GC to shoot. I am using, H-4895, VARGET, & IMR-3031. Mainly because I have it on hand. Low extreme deviation & SD but can't seem to get a good group. Velocity is 2220 to 2250.
Listed pressure is maxed @ 45000. 30/06 is higher pressure so can I get a little more than 45000 from this action with the 405?

Rossi,

I don't think that the advantage is "Mythical". It is published in the Hodgdon manual. I cited the load which I found to be the best for the 444. Most manuals show less than 2000 FPS.

Now, anyone can load anything they want in a 444 or a 405. It seems that you want to compare hot handloads with factory loads or published loads.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/405win.php

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/444mar.php

Compare these tables. They may not be 444/375 experts so their loads are not as warm on either side.

Charlie as near as I can figure it's under 50k. I worked the loads up from data Rick Jamison pressure tested in a couple of different articles in Shooting Time a few years back. A new manufactured 95 should be good for alot more pressure than you can get out of a 405 using slower powders as they did chamber it in the 270 and a couple of the numbers Zhat rebarrels them to run close to 60k.
I found that powders between 4895 and 4350 generaly work best in my rifle. Reloder 12 is its favorite, I'm down to a pound and a half of that stuff now, so I've been trying Rx 15. 4320 and 4064 should work well also.
Your observation about the low deviation is the same thing I've noticed in my rifle.

I have been using a 450 Marlin with a lot of success. It is a 200 yard caribou rifle and hits like a sledge hammer. 45-70 loaded up is capable of the same. At longer ranges the 405 is more capable but with peep sights I think 200 yards is still a good limit for it.

My opinion is that the 405 is more capable than the 444 even in the Big Bore 94. The Big Bore and the Marlin are capable of 50,000psi only in cartridges that Marlin or WIN rates at 50000 like the 307/356. In a 444 or 450 you are limited to 43000psi and I don't care what Pako says.

In tests with high intensity pistol cartridges (454) at 60000psi reported over at another board the Marlin failed first after less than 20 rounds, the Big Bore 94 let go next before an older non angle eject regular 94. The engineers at Win removed metal from the receiver to facilitate angle ejection and weakened the action. The 92 Win was stronger but still failed. The strongest levers were the 1886 and 71 winchesters. While the 1895 was not tested given that it was designed for 30-06 and has been chambered in 270 I'd say it is a very safe 50,000psi design. As the 405 is thinner than the 30-06 and you have more barrel diameter to work with it is a much better 50000psi rig than a Marlin or BigBore.

Oh yeah..that being said the 1895 looks as handy as a fence post. How does it handle?

North61 I think its a lot nicer to carry than the marlin's with that growth thingy on the bottom of the action the lever is bolted to. I like the way the 95 handles . The longer lever throw takes a bit of getting used to.

Charlie I forgot to mention that I use very little crimp on the jacketed bullets, and just enough with cast to straighten the flair out.

A spirited exchange to say the least....

I have used my Model 95 (.30-06 ) for pretty much eveything from duiker to eland. I consider it to be as tough and reliable as any of my bolt guns. It has a Williams receiver sight and, for me personally, is deadly accurate. It is extremely well balanced and easy to carry. I have occasionally carried it for days on end in the bush, 12 hours or more each day. Compared with my 303, 416 and even my 243, it is a real pleasure.

I had a 444S Marlin some years ago. I shot the heck out of it, but I never took it hunting. I liked the action, but I found that it did not shoot as well as the 95. With a magazine full of ammo, it was noticably more front-heavy, and the point of balance would change as the magazine emptied.

There is also something I discovered that's worth pointing out about the 444S. It would not cycle stout loads with heavier bullets. The loads were well within pressure limits, but the OAL was too large and they would get hung up on the little elevator behind the loading gate.

I personally think the Model 95 is an excellent rifle, and in 405 Winchester would be an great choice for any heavy game in the US and most in Africa.

Nyati I'm with you those 95's are a pleasure to carry and shoot.
Is your 06 one of the new made ones or one of the originals?

I have one of the new ones. Very happy with it.

The first one I shot was an original chambered in .30-03, if you can believe it! From that moment, I had to have one.

I'm reall happy with my 405, wanted one for a many years, had just about decided to order a Ruger no1 when I found this one.
I put one of the Lyman 38 repro sights on it. Are you using the factory sights?

I set mine up from day-one with a decelerator pad and a Williams receiver site (alot like your Lyman, I suspect). The first one I shot had no pad at all, and had sharp edges on the butt plate. A set-up that would hurt on a 22 LR! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure why, but I can shoot the 95 more accurately from the shoulder than any other rifle I've ever held. I don't
know why but I don't really care! It's just a geat fitting rifle for me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

By the way, where did you find the Lyman 38 repro sight? I'd like to check them out.

I shot mine for a while with the factory peice of potmetal butt plate, but soon realized that if I was going to do much with it something had to change. I put a limbsaver on and now its more on par with 308 in recoil.
I got my 38 type sight from Buffalo Arms. Its pretty spendy and requires a metric screw to be manufactured for the front, but I'm happy with it.
I like the shootability of the 95 from all the field positions. Despite whats been said about it over the years , I find it quite comfortable to carry. I did fit mine with a barrel band sling swivel and a horse sling from Browning.

Wow, that Lyman sight is nice but very pricey! I have seen the original on the Model 95s at gun shows. If memory serves me, it was very popular on the 405s. It would be nice to have one of those, but I'm pretty happy with the Williams sight.

We are definitely of one mind on the practical value of the Winchester Model 95. Dependable, strong, comfortable to carry, accurate and faster than a bolt for followup shots. I've made some amazing shots from a variety of field positions.

I like that 38 type sight but it is (gulp) pricey. Funny thing about it I've seen a few 95's around with the original 38 sight on em for not a heck of a lot more than the repro from Buffalo.
I'm thinking I'ld like to give the 35 winchester in a 95 a whirl just for fun. But I like my 405 so much I'ld feel like I was cheating on it if I got another one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Both the .444 and .405 are crank calibers, so get the rifle you like. I own an original 24-inch barrel .444 Marlin and love it.
A normal load for a 300-gr XTP is 2000 fps, but it can push them to 2200, or a 270-gr Gold Dot to 2300+.

The 1895 Winchester is actually a pretty slick rifle.
I know a few folks who own vintage ones in .30-06 and they are very accurate. They are no muzzle heavy than my Marlin, and less so than an 1886 Winchester or 1885 Browning.

Handle the two rifles you are actually considering. If possible, shoot both of them. Buy the one you like. There is not a dime's difference in the ballistics or lethality of the two cartridges.

Greetings and hello to all my fellow gunners:)
Having said that, I MUST make some corrections re: the Winchester 1895.
IT IS PURE P_ _ _ Y! (ok, here's a hint for those driving in the mentally slow lane, 'meow'):)
When I first saw this levergun on the rack I thought it was the oddest gun I had ever seen. Something brought me back to the gun store for a second look. Hmm, the balance, fit and feel are superb, strange looking magazine though. This is reputed to be the strongest levergun made, not to mention the only (that I know of) one I can shoot pointed bullets (compared to the standard tube feed levergun that cannot).
I bought it. Very accurate in 30-06, I have a rear peep that makes it very sweet, I have loaded everything from 95 gr to 200 gr. bullets with mostly excellent results. I have come to love the looks of this gun, and recently bought another in .405 for bear. While ammunition choices are limited, the reloader at least now has access to brass and bullets which previously were difficult at best to find.
The .405 has taken dangerous game all over the world (all the African big 5), so I feel the caliber is up to snuff for all N. American species (within range limitations), especially as a handloader. (a 300 gr. softnose at 2200+ FPS aint no sissy!)

Catch you later, and hope to hear from other shooters who own an 1895 (plus the ones that don't): zeN <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Zen if you haven't already you'll want to explore powders from 4895-4350 burnrates with the 300 gr bullets in your 405. Mine has a real fondness for reloder 12, but it's getting harder to find.

These days, those those who hold function over glamour are a rare breed. But rest assured, Zen, you are in good company. The Model 95 may be ungainly to some, but she is an absolute beauty to me. Carries like a dream, accurate, well balanced and very ergonomic. I like mine so much it has three interchangeable barrels!

You made the right choice. Best of luck with the .405

The 450/45-70 is capable of some fantastic velocities when loaded with the right powder/bullet combo.A 250 grain Barnes XFN at 2550 fps and a 300 Nosler Partition at 2488 fps both through a 24 inch test barrel.
The old 405 isn't a bad choice either but with the new interest in the 450/45-70 loaded to its potential,Bullet makers like Nosler/Swift A-Frame/North Fork/Barnes/Kodiak/Rhino and Woodleigh building bullets for the new velocities the 450/45-70 is capable of,It makes the old war horse better than ever.

Good luck....Jayco

I'm confused,

I went to Winchester's web page and see no lever actions in 30-06 - and no mention of "Model 95's". Do they still make these things.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm totally new to the world of lever actions.

They haven't made the 95 in 06 or 270 for a few years now. The last ones they run were in 405, they had those listed last year, but I didn't see the 1895 on their web page this year either.
There still are some of the 06's floating around NIB, but it takes some serious looking to find them.

I 'found' my 30-06 at a gun show awhile back. Same show there were two .405s, since then zero. gunsamerica.com usually has a few 1895s in 30-06 and .270 listed.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976584060.htm for $649

The newest and latest is a 1895 Takedown in 405. Only a 1,000 of them being made. Anybody want one?

Hey Brian:

The .30-06 has not been made for a number of years, and they are becoming a little tougher to find, but by no means impossible.

The last run they did of the .405s was with case-colored receivers pretty recently. I'm sure you've seen them at the gun shows. Beautiful guns and they can be had still pretty easily on the auction sites (about $1,000). CDNN Investments had them in their catalog until a few months ago.

FYI and to all who are interested: CDNN is unloading their .405 Hornady 300 grain ammo (flat point or round) for 19.99 a box. Get it now!

Kinda felt the same way myself, but walked past an "oldie" at a gun show & it cried so pitieously I had to bring it home. new 405 hasn't complained a bit sitting next to "grandpa" ( 30/40 mfg. 1902) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've been looking at some different 95's in 30-40 came close to getting one a couple weeks ago, but the guy would'nt send pictures of the "repaired" spot on the stock so I left it go.
We're sort of preparing to go to the Quigley shoot in June and Shorty has been shooting my 405, now I'm starting to worry it might get moved over to her side of the safe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Might have to get another for me to use as my hunting rifle.

Lever actions are a recent affliction for me. Seems Winchester heard I was shooting 45-70s in a bolt gun an saw to it that I came across a take down 1886 at the same time I had a few bucks in the account.
Then I got the urge for another big Winchester, the 95. I couldn't find a 405 but did pickup a used 30-06 with the idea of making it into a 375 Whelen. I had the dies and molds already. May still do the conversition but will have to wait til I scout up a third 95.
Then a dirty low life, shooting buddy of mine mentioned that CDNN had the 405 Winchesters available. So of course I had to get one of them. Now I had a rifle and the nearby gunshops had no idea what a 405 Winchester was much less have some ammo.
I lucked into an Ebay auction found some once fired 405 Ammo, bought 500 cases.
I had purchased the 405 as a cast bullet gun. I had not checked to find out that none of the normal bullet mold makers have molds for the 405. So I got Mountain molds to make a 350 grain gas checked, bore riding blunt nosed bullet mold, that has proved very accurate. And have since found a 330 grain NEI mold on Ebay. I had to get a honed out Lyman sizer luber die for .413.
The 350 grain bullet is very accurate with a case full of IMR 3031 or IMR 4895.
Case trimmer pilots can be made from .416 pilots or .429. I chucked a .429 pilot into the power drill and using a file and emory cloth turned the pilot down to .413-.412.
The 30-06 Mod. 95 is a plinker with full charge loads behind a 208 grain cast loads. Again the bullet is a bore riding gas checked mold from Mountain molds. This bullet hitting a 2 liter jug full of water at 100 yards makes a dramatic impact.
Both of Winchester 95s are a whole lot more comfortable shooting off hand, then off the bench.
The buckhorns sights issued with the rifle are not a worth a flip so the 30-06 is wearing a Lyman #66 and the 405 is getting a Redfield reciever sight. While the 405 is getting the Redfield installed a recoil will be installed. Shooting the 405 20 -30 times in an afternoon is just about as much fun as a fella should ever want.
Jim

Jim I don't know what your prefrence in recoil pads is, but I put a Limbsaver #10112 on my 405, it was almost a perfect fit , and required little sanding . After I put that pad on 15 rnds at a time wasn't 5 to many any more.

I had not researched pads, I hate that, sounds like I'm talking about Kotex, the recoil pad <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
All of the rifles I own that have pads, have the half inch pads that mainly keep the rifle from sliding on the floor.
I prefer the old style 'red' color to the black. I'm not sure why but seems in keeping with the age of the design.
Thanks for the heads up.
Jim