What type of cover are you guys finding these in the late season? I've never been able to find many, if any at all, in January. I live in western NY near the PA border in Steuben county if that helps... Thanks!

They like the abandoned and thickly overgrown Christmas tree plantations around here. They can sit in the branches and be safe from predators both above and below.

Thanks! We have a few of those around here. I've been hunting tightly clustered pines that have seeded themselves from state run pine plantation areas on state land around here. Nothing so far... What do they eat this time of year?

Ruffed grouse like thick cover. During winter I find them in cover (briers and brambles) with barberries, winter berry and bittersweet. If you have stands of pine with a lot of barberries you should have grouse. If you go into, what you think may be grouse cover, and exit on the other side with scratches on your face, hands, ears and your clothes torn to shreds, then you have been in grouse cover. When you are hunting them, if you do not have a dog, stop walking frequently through the cover. Many times, when you stop walking, a nearby grouse may flush that might have held tight as you walked by. That grouse that just flushed will now put the tree nearest to you between you and it. Good luck!

Thanks! I used to be able to find winterberry, or at least what I thought was, quite a bit. We always found grouse near those. The places I used to find them didn't have it the last couple years. I'll keep looking. We went out tonight to a place that looks promising in a couple years. They just select cut a chunk of state land and the briars are starting to grow up. I have a dog that's still young and learning(lost my last one 2 years ago).

Pines are great when they are going to roost. When they are out feeding a good cover has many downed logs or slashing for them to move into quickly. They also spend the night there frequently. Look for droppings on the logs.

Without downed logs or slashings, what looks good will never turn into a good cover.

Find the cover with food and you will find the Grouse

Problem is Ruffed Grouse eat most everything:

From a Ruffed Grouse web page:

"A variety of foods fill seasonal nutritional needs, and the diets of the ruffed grouse are diverse. In the spring, grouse eat 98% vegetable matter, including buds and newly sprouted leaves of aspen, birch, cherry and apple trees as well as some herbaceous plants. As they come into season, fruits (strawberry, blueberry, bunchberry and raspberry), seeds, and plant parts (sedges, clovers, violets and grasses) become mainstays in the diet. Preferred fall foods include other berries (dogwoods and viburnums), sumac, grapes and acorns. During the winter, the food of choice and perhaps necessity is aspen buds, but they will also eat catkins and buds of hazelnut, willow, beech, birch, maple and some berry bushes. Principal non-vegetative foods include ants, beetles, flies, spiders and other insects."

They also need a certain amount of overhead cover to give them a fighting chance against ever increasing numbers of Hawks and Owls. With trapping being mostly a thing of the past, the Raccoons, Possums, Skunks, Foxes and other egg eaters make it hard for a brood to hatch.

There are also some studies that seem to indicate they are also fighting West Nile Virus.

These are hard times for Ruffed Grouse in the East.

When the Birds are down there are many great covers with few Birds.

In fact all Birds in our area are in remarkable short supply. Used to see many song Birds during winter hunts. Not so much anymore.

The Ruff Grouse worst enemy in the east is the Wild Turkey . They are destroying the Nesting Eggs and Food supply for these upland birds. As the Wild Turkey Population grows the Grouse will cease to exist in these parts of the US.

I've said the same for some time. The GC says IFOS.

Not sure on the food supply side, in that Grouse can bud on many trees that will not support a Turkey. Completely agree on Turkeys scratching thru the wood and destroying the Grouse nests.

I never knew this. Good info

That's the other thing. I could be looking in the right places, but with such a low grouse population, they're just not around. I heard that about turkeys and grouse too. A guy I hunt with that grew up in Wisconsin said the same thing. His dad's place has turkey's everywhere, but few grouse anymore. When he was younger, it wasn't weird to have close to 10 flushes in a couple hours. We've never had many grouse, but we'd get at least 1 flush every time out...

If it's good cover they are around, just not in large numbers.
You are probably dealing with mostly older Birds and they know the game better than most of us.

Addition: Two of us hunted for 7 hours last week and he lives in Grouse country. Has good Dogs and trains other peoples Dogs pretty much year round. We had 6 solid points. One the Bird came out behind us. Another we saw leaving early. There was snow on the ground and with 4 points we saw the tell tale tracks of them getting out and gone. He has excellent hearing and the day was quiet. The Dogs locked up at least 20-30 yards from where the Grouse were sitting and most certainly didn't bump those four. They were out and gone way before we walked into the point.

They knew how to play the game.

Interesting about the inverse relationship between turkey numbers and grouse populations. Wonder if the same correlation exists between turkeys and quail? I've never heard it as an explanation for the bobwhite decline. If someone had told me 15 years ago that I'd see more turkeys in a year's time than I see quail, I'd have said they were crazy. But that has become the reality.

My bet is that this turkey thing is more about habitat change than the actual turkey doing damage to grouse. Grouse habitat isn't good turkey habitat, ect. If the habitat changes improve turkey populations then wouldn't those changes adversely affect grouse populations? Thus seeing more turkeys and fewer grouse and not looking at the big picture might draw a false conclusion?

This would make sense if each species had the same level of habitat change tolerance, but they don't. Turkey's survive and thrive in more habitat scenarios than Grouse.

Where we always found a number of birds a few years back you are now hard placed to find a single grouse but Turkeys everywhere. Turkeys are the Ruff Grouse worst enemy .

In Price co Wisconsin we had a lot of grouse , 12 bird flushes were common. Then the turkeys came, the grouse declined a bunch. Now the turkeys are gone and the grouse are doind realy good. Now doubt a flock of scavanging flock of turkeys will know enough to look for eggs when it kicks up a grouse. Chickens eat their own eggs, and turkeys will eat eggs too. Most likely will chase down little grouse and eat them too.

I seem to find Grouse on my place any time but hunting season. I would love to know where they go!

Don't grouse have something like 7 year population cycles?

The ruffed grouse cycle is 10 years and is most evident in northern coniferous forests. Gordon Gullion studied this cycle extensively. If you examine spring drumming count data it is very obvious. The disturbing point is that the lows of the cycle are lower and the highs of the cycle are lower. "Ruffed Grouse" by Sally Atwater page 212 and "Grouse of the North Shore" by Gordon Gullion.

I don't hunt late season grouse anymore. But when I did in Northern Pa along the New York border at times, I would find them in Aspen lots. They love quaking aspen and sawtooth. In deep snow years I'd flush a lot that were buried in snow. I'll never forget the first time I witnessed this many many moons ago. Scared the [bleep] out of me.

The amount of aspen on the landscape is shrinking & that aspen is getting older. Habitat is declining, even in the upper great lakes

I'd be interested in seeing any scientific research that supports this because the research I've read seems to indicate little or no evidence of turkeys destroying grouse eggs or keeping them from getting the food they need.

I grew up in the grouse/turkey woods of Northern Pa. and saw them coexist for decades. What I do know is that winged raptors like horned owls and some hawks take a lot of grouse and we've had a significant increase in numbers in these predators as well as furbearing predators that do raid nests and kill birds. Habitat availability also has a huge effect since grouse thrive in edge cover and forestry/farming practices have changed over the years in our area such that I rarely see the large clear cuts and new growth that grouse can survive in. As cuts grow up, there's less cover and food for grouse so I don't expect to be able to go back to the same spots for 10 or 20 years unless some cutting or planting has been done to replenish preferred grouse habitat.

Bas, exactly.

What I witnessed over the years in southern Pa Laurel Highlands area is encroachment by man. To much of the Mt. Has been sold off and developed. My father and grandfather had tons of grouse hunting here in their lifetimes. You can spend all day with dogs and be lucky two have two or three birds flushed. I haven't hunted grouse in this area for over a decade now. Why would I when we have a camp in Potter Count. Two totally different world's when it comes to grouse hunting. I've also discovered once you get above interstate 80 in Pa you get into better grouse numbers. I've found high numbers in McKean, Potter, Cameron, Elk and Tioga. The best three of those counties are Mckean, Potter and Tioga from my experiences anyhow. The other thing I witnessed is the state must practice diffe r nt forestry practices as well. Alot of our southern woods are all mature forest or poll stage whereas up north there are way better grouse woods with nasty thick covers I love. Our flora and fauna differs in those two parts as well.

I started hunting grouse 50+ years ago here in western , N. C. I have noticed a definite cycle down, down, down, In my early years plenty of grouse wouldn't consider traveling to hunt , zero Turkey population, Turkey introduced now almost zero grouse population . Started hunting U P and Wis. before I saw any Turkey' Grouse hunting great, started seeing turkey Grouse flushes down about 1/2. Just my what I've seen in past 50 years in areas I've hunted. So here I am with the best dogs I've ever owned and no birds to hunt!

In the late, snowy season we find them in the spruces quite a bit. But still not too far from the tag alders and wet areas we find them in the fall. If you can come up on em in the evening they seem to be grouped up pretty well.

I'm no grouse expert but I do hunt them every year until freeze up in NW Ontario. One thing I have noticed is that grouse are plentiful along roadsides eating clover and strawberry if the daytime temperatures can stay above freezing, but once the temperature drops and that clover stays frozen they won't eat it and generally disappear from the roadsides except the occasional visit to eat gravel for their gizzard. With freezing weather, I believe grouse move to eating catkins in the tree tops or south facing hillsides with a good food source that will thaw out on sunny days.

when there were some grouse here when it got cold you would find them along branches and seeps as there were some greenery along them for protein and also temperature slightly warmer in these lower lying spots.

Grouse and Turkeys don't mix well. Why I don't know, but my guess is Turkeys scratch out their nests.

As far as consistently finding and killing Ruffed Grouse, a good set of legs is your best asset.

Truer words were never spoken!

Encroachment by man (both physically and chemically), burgeoning predator populations, and new growth coverts turning into old growth stands= decline in grouse numbers, no matter the population cycles. We can't go back to the way things were in 1965.

If you can't climb up and down all day then Brother Ruff isn't for you

Yup. My gimpy butt can't take much of that anymore. I've started an exercise regimen that hopefully will belie the notion that my best grouse hunting days are behind me.

1) The frosty cold morning of opening day of deer season: not to be missed.
2) The first squirrel of the year lying warmly in the game bag: nostalgic beyond measure.
3) A Canada goose flaring over the decoys: be still my beating heart.
4) Traipsing through the grouse woods on a crisp Indian Summer day: heaven on earth, and all of the above wrapped into one.

It is my understanding that the fall in quail numbers is more habitat related than anything. In my area there are few overgrown fence rows and the preponderance of fescue has more impact than turkeys. It is so thick that the chicks can't move thru it. There is a saying that quail won't walk where they can't see their toes.

Interesting. I've never hunted NC or even been there for that matter, but I have read about some good Mt streams for fly fishing for trout. I'm not bashing you, I just can't see it being turkeys, but I'm no wildlife biologist or anything. Like one of my previous posts and the gentlemans post right before mine that lives in northern pa. Mts Stated we have huge grouse populations as well as huge turkey populations coexisting in exact same areas and both birds numbers are terrific and have been for along time. I can tell you how many times I had 20 to 30 grouse flushes a day in many different areas two years ago and going back the last decade in Allegany Mts areas. 2g and 2f have been incredible areas to hunt grouse and turkey.

In fact, it was so good I'm getting sick thinking about it because I haven't hunted it in two years now. Looks like I won't be anytime soon either having just moved to North Dakota. These ring necks are going to be in trouble this year though....lol

Yeah, and I've always heard that a quail has to dust himself pretty often too, so some bare ground is necessary close to escape cover (which by the way we have no, repeat no, shortage of). I think the nesting habitat is where the problem lies. I have seen adult quail still paired up, and hens on the nest, as late as early September in eastern NC. This tells me that earlier nesting attempts failed. Birds should be at least half grown by Labor Day.

Molonlabe41 Thanks for the info!

I haven't hunted Ruffies in the East but here in Alberta I often find them in the Aspen stands where the Aspen and Pine come together in the Foothills and lower edges of the mountains.
Quite often there is a mix of Ruffed and Spruce grouse in there.
Early AM finds them along the edge of logging roads.

Further away from the Foothills into the Boreal region they hang out in the Aspen stands as well. As well, find a berry patch and you have Ruffies. I have on occasion run into Black bears in the same berry patch as Ruffies. That gets your attention I can garuntee you!

In the Prairie region where I live they are found in the major river valleys in Cottonwood stands. Occasionally I find them on the grassland above the river mixed in with Sharptail grouse and Huns.

They are quite an adaptive bird! Lots of fun to hunt and probably one of the tastiest too.

Late season blue grouse favor evergreen needles. Seems to make the flesh kind of strong. For that reason we don't shoot them much after about December 1st or so. Ruffs eat so many things, they eat well through the end of our season. (on 12/31).

Ruffies here in late Season will be located in Aspen stands if it isn't too bad of weather (cold & deep snow). Preferably near conifer stands. Brush along creeks with Balsam & popple mixed in
and tangles / blowdowns help provide cover from predators.
Once it's deep snow time & deep cold look in the heaviest cover available near a food (catkins) source. Small cedar swamps,
creek bottoms with mix of brush & conifers, and a feed source.

Back years ago the Massachusetts season used to run till early January. We used to head to the western part of the state and found the birds near apple orchards,bordered by a mix of hard and soft woods.

We'd have an extra cup of coffee because it seemed we'd move more birds after 10AM than before that. We also got more flushes from trees than during early season. I think the birds were budding in both the apple and hardwood trees that time of the year. Maybe the good ground feed had frozen or dried up by then.

Birds rocketing out of trees were tough targets...they frequently managed to always put a tree trunk between you and them.It happened so often I began to suspect it was not coincidence. Those biddies knew what they were doing.

Funny thing is it seemed the birds got little pressure.Other than my small group I never bumped into another hunter out there.

Observations from late season Northern Pa Grouse:

If it is really cold they don't like to move around that much and thermal cover takes many forms. A thick stand of Pines can be a gold mine. Thick brushy cover with edges another. Even relatively open ground with lots of fallen logs to huddle under can sometimes hold more than one would believe.

They will eat just about anything that grows or buds. Have even been told they will eat small water creatures such as Salamanders, but have yet to discover it. Small rivulets of water coming out of a hillside that have something growing on the edges always deserve spending some time around. Especially in winter.

If they have not been hunted much in winter, they will often find each other and covey up. Hit the right spot and it can get exciting. Miss it and you will think there are no Birds around.

Days of warming after a cold snap can have them out stretching their legs and looking to fill up an empty crop. Kill a Bird, take the time to open their crop and take a look at what they have been eating can be productive.

Fresh tracks in the snow are an open book.

Research has some thinking our Pa Birds are being infected with some type of Avian virus. Gun your late winter Birds with an eye towards next year. They are survivors.