7 1/2 Shot & Pheasant - 24hourcampfire

Will 7 1/2s completely penetrate a pheasant at, say, 35 yards?

Not completely but the bird will drop assuming pellets hit the front half of the bird.

I mostly shoot 5's with some 6's thrown in and it's common to find pellets in birds.

Completely? Head perhaps, body unlikely. As mentioned even 5&6's for the most part, don't completely penetrate at that range on a Pheasant.

And again, it will kill them with enough up front hits from accumulated shock and disruption of vitals. 7.5's wouldn't be my first choice for all round use. Up close? Deadly.

35 yards would be a very long shot for me with 7 1/2s on pheasant... I use 5s as my primary shot size.

Originally Posted by BarryC

Will 7 1/2s completely penetrate a pheasant at, say, 35 yards?

No.

4,5, and 6 shot are usually preferred. I like 6's early when the shots are closer and birds have fewer feathers. The 4's are great for late season birds.

Although you might be able to throw a bunch in my pocket and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Thanks guys.
I've shot a lot of squirrels and never cared for the penetration of 7 1/2s. 6s do fine on gray squirrels but I move to 5s if I think I might see some reds.

Just wondering how comparable a pheasant is. I'm new to bird hunting.

Originally Posted by BarryC

Thanks guys.
I've shot a lot of squirrels and never cared for the penetration of 7 1/2s. 6s do fine on gray squirrels but I move to 5s if I think I might see some reds.

Just wondering how comparable a pheasant is. I'm new to bird hunting.

Roosters are pretty tough on the gamebird spectrum. It's no big trick to knock down a limit of grouse with 7.5 or 8 shot. Even if you get a cripple the dog will almost always find the bird because they wimp out with a pellet or two in them. If you don't kill or break a pheasants legs, they hit the ground running and you'd better have a dog with that gets after them or you'll lose the bird.

If you want to try 7-1/2's on pheasants, good hard shot is the way to go. It doesn't have to be plated (though that helps a little), but does have to be high-antimony shot.

I've killed a bunch of wild roosters with high-antimony #7 shot from a 28-gauge, and only 7/8 of an ounce drops them real well out to 40 yards. There are around 300 7's in an ounce of shot, so they're somewhere between 7-1/2's (@350 per ounce) and 6's (@225) in size. They're also the same size as the British #6, which is most popular over there for pheasant shooting--which is usually done on driven birds, so not as many are flying directly away, like flushed pheasants.

In fact I prefer 7's to American 6's for pheasants in the 28, because they penetrate pretty well but pattern density is higher. But don't see any real reason for them in a larger gauge, where a heavier shot charge can be used.

Anybody I've seen shooting COCK with 7 1/2's has walked away not happy.

Travis

My favorite for all upland is 7.5's. I use a SxS 12 and pointing dogs tho.. No i'm not a snob.

Bah! I think I'll just stick with 6s. They seem to work well on pheasant.
[Linked Image]

I think you would like 5's a bit better. Find some 3 1/4-1 1/4-5's .. No need for magnums ..

Originally Posted by rosco1

My favorite for all upland is 7.5's. I use a SxS 12 and pointing dogs tho.. No i'm not a snob.

No reason for any to think you would be. Unless you prove otherwise in other ways. All my Bird hunting pards use a SxS or O/U and run with pointers. I slum with flushers and sometimes use a pump; they even put up with me.

Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter

I think you would like 5's a bit better. Find some 3 1/4-1 1/4-5's .. No need for magnums ..

Shot a couple Pheasants with 7.5's out of a 16-thought I was out of 6's, then found some later in my bag-today at around real close and another at perhaps 25. Hit them hard. Bud used 6's. One at around 20 and then made an excellent shot at around 45. It just collapsed. The one at 20 turned into a runner that Toby brought back after being gone for 15 minutes. Center them and most everything works at normal ranges. However, 5&6's gives one some room for error when they get out a bit.

A good retriever saves many days no matter what size shot we use.

Battue glad you got into some birds.. Be the middle of next week before we get into roosters.. Most of my big hunting is behind me this season.. Maybe a try for elk, but for the next three months the dogs and I will be out for birds.. Hopefully my gal will get some photos.. Our time of year! Enjoy and best of luck!

Yes, 4 nice Roosters. Photobucket is down right now. GameLand Birds, but in jungle thick Goldenrod and switch grass. You couldn't see your feet and had to push yourself thru, but the Birds were in there. Without the Dogs we may not have been able to flush or find three, even with a good mark.

Great day.

Excellent!

I grew up in northwest Kansas and shot many pheasants with 7 1/2 shot. It is deadly IF you take your lead off of the head. To answer your question though, 7 1/2 will not penetrate the body much more than just under the skin at that range. Many hunters are fooled due to the long tail and aim at the center of the bird which is really more towards the back of the body. A benefit of hitting the head is most of the time when the bird hits the ground, it stays put where it fell or flops a lot and is easy to find.

Grew up on a farm in northern Iowa, back in the 60's and early 70's when we had some birds. Early season 6's out of a Marlin 90 O/U in 16 ga. latter on, 5's, and some times 4's. & 1/2 work, but not good on going away birds. Now in South dakota, and Minnesota, always 5's.

[quote=BarryC]Will 7 1/2s completely penetrate a pheasant at, say, 35 yards? [/quot]

I doubt if any of the more commonly used sizes -- 6's, 5's, or even 4's -- would completely penetrate the body on a rooster on a straight-away at that range. I can't ever remember seeing and noting exit wounds on a rooster with any of 'em and I've shot hundreds or more of them in my life and with every available gun with the exception of a 10 ga. I suppose it's possible through the relative thin chest area right behind the big breast muscle on a crossing shot with 4's at that range but certainly not probable.

I would not choose 71/2's for pheasants even when using a 28. 3/4 to 7/8 oz of 6's provide a dense enough pattern even out of a 28 to thirty or so yards to be consistently effective. For the bigger gauges there is even less reason to use the smaller shot on pheasants IMO unless it's all you have for whatever reason.

On this double last year, I had 6's in the right barrel and 4's in the left which I usually don't bother to do but in this case it was fortuitous as the second rooster was pushing 40-45 yards. I doubt I'd killed the second with 71/2's.

[Linked Image]

5s, maybe 6s, perhaps 4s late in the season if the birds are determined to get up farther ahead

Originally Posted by BarryC

Will 7 1/2s completely penetrate a pheasant at, say, 35 yards?

In general, no they won't.

For game farm birds, you should be OK with 7 1/2 shot.

For wild birds, I use 5's for the first 2 weeks, then switch to 4's for the remainder of the season. Even 4's don't generally pass through. On the other hand, #4 Hevi-Shot will consistently pass through Mallards at 45yds.

I will also carry shell's loaded with #2 lead. Many times my right barrel has 4's in it and the left has 2's. Since I no longer have a bird dog, I need to make sure they are dead when they hit the ground, and 2's will do that.#2 lead typically perforates roosters completely.

K22 +1

I used to shoot for spaniel hunt tests and shot 20+ birds a day with trap loads even ones we road out a ways for the senior and master dogs usually just folded up, these are pen raised pheasants. For wild bird I shoot 1oz of 5's or 6's out of my 2 1/2" 12's works just fine, I do leave the long ones go and give them another go the next day.

Originally Posted by BarryC

Will 7 1/2s completely penetrate a pheasant at, say, 35 yards?

No, they won't. But I have shot a gawdawful lot of pheasants with 1-1/4 oz of 7 1/2 hard shot out of IC and Mod barrelled O/Us over pointing dogs. No small number with 1 ounce loads out of 20s and 16s with open chokes as well (SK/SK and cyl), abeit at just a little shorter ranges. They break wings, legs heads and necks just fine and kill very well 35 yards and in.

I prefer 7 1/2 for pheasants over pointing dogs. Guiding, or backup shooting where if I shoot it will be long range, Then I move to tight chokes and bigger shot.

+1

Have killed hundreds of pheasants over the years with copper or nickel plated 7-1/2s out of a 20 ga. Late season usually 6's and occasionally 5's. Mostly 1 oz loads, but occasionally 1-1/8 and even 1-1/4 oz magnum loads. Since I hunt over a pointer/retriever range is usually well under 25 yards. Never had a reason to completely penetrate any bird...getting the pellets into the vitals is top of the list in my book.

Bill

If you're using 1 ounce loads and heavier than what's the point of using 7.5's?

Al of these birds were killed over pointers with 7 1/2 plated shot with guns ranging from muzzleloading 12's to 28 gauges.
Loads range from 7/8 oz to 1 oz.
We use 6's at times as well if it is real super windy or hunting sharptails that are getting up at 4o yards.

Don't know but I haven't had good luck with them killing pheasants at that distance. I've had no problem killing them DRT using 7&1/2 one oz target loads with a 20 gauge over a pointing dog but most of those shots aren't much more than 25 yards max.

I made the mistake of taking that gun & ammo combination as a guest to a good sized preserve that supplied the dogs. Bad move, we drew a flushing dog. It was a windy day and the pheasants got out there fast. By the time they were high enough for the dogs safety it was usually a pretty long shot. Plenty of flushes but I only had two knockdowns and they were hit in the head. Guys using #5 or 6 shot did a lot better.

My favorite upland shot when I was reloading all my shot shells was #7 shot, but for Ringnecks nothing beats #5 shot especially in the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant load

175, While in Montana this fall, I bought 4 bx. of WW factory
loads with # 7 shot.. They were called Whitewing loads.. Haven't tried any but have some with me. If I get some dove shooting or good quail shooting, I will give them a go..

Originally Posted by minnmarcus

Grew up on a farm in northern Iowa, back in the 60's and early 70's when we had some birds. Early season 6's out of a Marlin 90 O/U in 16 ga. latter on, 5's, and some times 4's. & 1/2 work, but not good on going away birds. Now in South dakota, and Minnesota, always 5's.

Grew up on and still own the farm in east central Iowa. My dad and I used #5 shot exclusively on pheasants. Back in the soil bank days (1950s) we had to carry 22 rifles on the tractors while planting corn. They would land right behind the planter scratching the seed out faster than we could plant it. Fields of them by the hundreds. Dad used a 30" Win Mod 12 12ga and I used a 32" Win mod 97 during the pheasant season. I shot my last rooster with my Win Mod 42 and #5 shot. I won't shoot another one as I like them to much. They will be almost extinct in this state before long.

There was a time I thought 2's were needed for sage grouse.

I found 1-1/4 of 7.5's killed the chit out of things..it was a transition, as I sometimes had 6's or 4's in the second barrel. At some point I went to 7.5's in both barrels, for all upland.

I dont know..keep on top of them, and they just work.

In a 12?

Which choke?

Dave

I wont use 7 1/2 in 12ga for blue quail due to the numbers of cripples lost. Im too old to run them down in sand country and you cant find them in grass and weeds if they dont go down a hole or into a packrat mound. Hunting cripples can wear a pointer out.

I now use low base Rio 6s in a 20 ga and have never gotten less birds than someone using a 12 with high base 7.5s though i have downed less.

In fact, the last few yrs i have even started using them on fox and grey squirrels.

I started using a 20 on quail 30 yrs ago when quail hunting with a guy who had a cross country hunting vehicle and saw his wife consistently rolling jack rabbits with one shooting high base 6s at 30-35 yds.

Originally Posted by deflave

In a 12?

Which choke?

Dave

Yes 12's. My silver hawk has IM/IM the Ugartechea has IC/M.

I want to get a 20ga sxs, and might re-think shot size then..

I aint trying to say 7.5's are the best for everyone,but the express long range high brass 7.5's have treated me pretty good in the 12's.

I've hunted pheasants for 49 years. I went through a 7.5 phase for maybe one season. The theory being that you'd kill the bird with denser pattern, versus crippling (maybe the idea was you'd hit it in the head?)
Its all about the number of chances you have, that is bird population and how picky you are with shots. A few years back during an abundant crop of birds in ND where I now hunt, I shot nothing but a 410 and made myself only shoot birds that I had to kick up from in front of my pointing dog. But most of us can't be that picky most of the time. And we want to break wings and legs (can't hit the head on one going away when you can't even see the head.) 5's is what I shoot routinely, and would always recommend.
A crossing bird at 35 yards, 7.5s would be great... shoot it in the head! Not many crossing shots if hunting pheasants behind a dog. In Europe they used to (maybe still do) think shooting a pheasant up the arse (going away) was disgusting. Driven birds flying over you and toward you.... head shots can be done.

Originally Posted by rosco1

Yes 12's. My silver hawk has IM/IM the Ugartechea has IC/M.

I want to get a 20ga sxs, and might re-think shot size then..

I aint trying to say 7.5's are the best for everyone,but the express long range high brass 7.5's have treated me pretty good in the 12's.

Meh.

Fugk that bro. Full choke and 5's. I like 4's too. But only when dealing with COCK exclusively!

GTBTP,
Travis

Originally Posted by munsterlander

In Europe they used to (maybe still do) think shooting a pheasant up the arse (going away) was disgusting. Driven birds flying over you and toward you.... head shots can be done.

You know what's disgusting? A bleeder that doesn't shave her armpits and men that have a casual indifference to taking a fugking bath.

And those lazy fugks couldn't walk two days in our bird fields regardless. And even if they could they'd be speaking German. Or Chinamen, if it weren't for us.

So fugk them.

Happy New Year,
Clark

I used to shoot Pheasants in Pointing Dog Field trials. If a trainer said to go ahead and shoot, you better be sure of a downed bird. Over Pointing dogs I used nothing but 7-1/2 High Brass. Hardly ever did any get away. Over Flushing Dogs I used 6's. I have shot literally hundreds of Pheasants, Quail and Partridge and I find that these two loads are the best. 5's and 4's do work, but you sacrifice some pellets. Since steel requirements for waterfowl have been in effect, I have used up all my lead shells that are bigger than 7-1/2's on Upland birds. In all cases field loads are a little iffy. As erich stated, you can do it with them if you don't go out too far.

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by munsterlander

In Europe they used to (maybe still do) think shooting a pheasant up the arse (going away) was disgusting. Driven birds flying over you and toward you.... head shots can be done.

You know what's disgusting? A bleeder that doesn't shave her armpits and men that have a casual indifference to taking a fugking bath.

And those lazy fugks couldn't walk two days in our bird fields regardless. And even if they could they'd be speaking German. Or Chinamen, if it weren't for us.

So fugk them.

Happy New Year,
Clark

Don't forget the queer clothes they wear.

Originally Posted by rondrews

I used to shoot Pheasants in Pointing Dog Field trials. If a trainer said to go ahead and shoot, you better be sure of a downed bird.

I did that as well, in the late 60's and the 70's. I agree that 71/2's worked well on pen raised birds over dogs. Heck, I've killed wild roosters with #9's a few times, but I do not suggest that at all, on either pen raised or wild birds.

I don't have a bird dog any more, so I need the wild rooster dead in the air, and more often than not, #4 lead will do it. But, just in case the wind picks up and the shots become longer, I will have either #2 lead with me or #4 Hevi-Shot, depending on which gun and gauge I am using.

Frequently, I'll have #4 lead in the right barrel and the 'stronger' stuff in the left.

Early in the season when the birds aren't so wild and so heavily feathered, I use "Heavy Trap Loads" (premium hard shot) w/7 1/2s for the first barrel of a 12 guage double. They fold up roosters just fine at sensible ranges. The second barrel I load with 6s.

In the late season I go to 5s in a 12, 3" 4s in a double 20.

The one objection I have to using smaller shot like 7 1/2s is that they get in my teeth! Larger shot are easier to detect both in cleaning the birds and eating them.

When I've had "complete penetration" in pheasants, it was always with 4s or 5s and resulted in a "two-piece" bird...shot too close, too much caffeine! Looked like I was using a bazooka.

I guess it might be important to clarify that my comments were assuming we are talking WILD birds. I know this raises a entirely new potential debate. But in my opinion pen-raised planted birds are not same creature. Maybe its like saying you can stop an NFL linebacker on adrenaline with a .22.... well, sure. Or a flabby video game player on the couch.... easier to stop.

I've never seen 7.5 give good results past 25 yards or so.

Size 6 will get it done to 35 with no problem, especially in a 20 where it keeps the density up.

Size 5 gets it done period.

Size 4 will kill birds at 75 yards from behind, as I've seen it done numerous times. But there is not as much density, and you probably need to be choked up full. There seem to be just as many runners with size 4 as with anything else.

My uncle used to swear by size 2. He claimed that one pellet is all it took since it always penetrated the bird completely, and that seemed to incapacitate them instantly. I haven't tried it myself.

Originally Posted by Mule Deer

If you want to try 7-1/2's on pheasants, good hard shot is the way to go. It doesn't have to be plated (though that helps a little), but does have to be high-antimony shot.

I've killed a bunch of wild roosters with high-antimony #7 shot from a 28-gauge, and only 7/8 of an ounce drops them real well out to 40 yards. There are around 300 7's in an ounce of shot, so they're somewhere between 7-1/2's (@350 per ounce) and 6's (@225) in size. They're also the same size as the British #6, which is most popular over there for pheasant shooting--which is usually done on driven birds, so not as many are flying directly away, like flushed pheasants.

In fact I prefer 7's to American 6's for pheasants in the 28, because they penetrate pretty well but pattern density is higher. But don't see any real reason for them in a larger gauge, where a heavier shot charge can be used.

John, I have been in the "hit them hard with 4s or 5s" since...well forever I guess. Where we hunt in Kansas this year the pheasant numbers were the best in eight years. Here is the rub, so many pheasants they were intermixed with the quail. Now a quail flys through a cloud of 4s like a movie star escaping 7.7s in a WW2 rally movie. So switching loads was a larger component of this season. Usually you walk the big stubble with pheasant loads, switch to trap loads for the plum thickets and edges for Bobbies. In usual times that is a pretty good plan. I started out predicting what the dog was smelling pretty well. But then those quail got far from cover and the ace in the hole "Quail Walk" had cockbirds and a few 8 point bucks this year. In short, enough cockbirds flew into my Handicap trap loads and if anything... brought more birds to hand without the big dog-chasing-a-rooster for ten minutes that is all too common with American coarse shot, high brass loads. Maybe you (I) shade the pheasants toward the front more, knowing the limits of 71/2s . But overall for me the 4s and 5s were not as decisive as the trap loads.

Mule Deer is close on, and I don't want to open a can of worms, but the size (Gauge) of your gun has nothing to do with penetrating power. A 20 Gauge #6 shot with a Max Load of powder, has the same penetrating power of a 12 Ga. #6 Max load. The only difference is the number of BB's. It takes more powder to throw the extra amount of BB's in the 12 Ga as opposed to the 20 Ga. with the same velocity. Now, it comes down to the size of the shot itself. Physics itself will tell you that the smaller the shot, the less each pellet weighs, therefore as the distance that you are shooting at gets further, the penetrating power of a smaller size shot gets less. Not rocket science, but you would be surprised at how many think that by going to a larger gauge, they can reach out further. Some even believe that the choke has something to do with it. Although most know that all the choke does is open or constrict the end of the barrel as the shot passes through, some think that they are getting extra killing power with a tighter choke. All you are getting is a denser or more open pattern.