I recently picked up a Shiloh Sharps Sporting Rifle #1 in .45 2 1/10, with 34" octagon barrel. There is no rear sight on the barrel, just a tang-mounted aperture (case-hardened, no less) and a hooded post on the front. Are these a factory option or aftermarket? And what model or design are they?

This is my first BPCR, and I thought I've owned some nicely made guns before, but this rifle is "best" quality. It's about 8 years old, but unfired (until today!). The fit and finish is amazing. My first three impromptu shots from a cramped kneeling position out of a second-story window at a steel IPSC target 60 yards away resulted in three satisfying clangs and a single lead splash mark on the paint. I'm hooked.
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Thanks,

Greg Perry

Nice looking rifle!!! Good find.

I am NOT an "x-spurt" on sights, but the rear sight may be a Red River hunting sight . . . just a guess. Not a clue what the front sight is.

My sights are Red River (back when they were Parts Unknown) and I am a bit familiar with MVA sights. Others will provide more enlightened info (and educate both of us in the process, I hope).

?I don't know what sights they are but that staff is not properly positioned in that first photo. If it really leans back like that when it is in the detent, it needs fixing.

If it has a good and true vernier scale on the side of the staff, it would be an excellent hunting sight. I'd even be interested in finding one like that for my own sharps.

Does the sight also fold forward?

I'm thinking it's an older version of this sight http://www.montanavintagearms.com/133_windgauge.html

The front sight looks alot like the C Sharps globe fixed post globe.

Can't help with the sight, but I do agree that no other factory product in the US comes even close on fit and finish. Good luck with it.

Yes, the sight does fold forward. It's a little bit out of the detent in the photos.

That rear sight is an old Shiloh Sporting Tang sight. It is windage adjustable by loosening the screw on the forward side of the vertical slide, also loosen the eye cup, and just slide the aperture to the right or left. That will do for small adjustments. That's a rather good sight for a hunter.

Cool. Thanks Mike.

And without being able to look through it, I'll guess your front sight is the rather standard Globe sight, where inside of the tube you have a ball that sits on top of a post. That's also a good sight except that the ball has the habit of covering and hiding bullseyes unless those targets are pretty big. Because there is no rear sight on the barrel and no dovetail to accept one, you can be fairly sure that your rifle was shipped out with the sights that are on it.

I don't think that is an original barrel. And that might be a good thing if this gun is old enough (however the forearm looks like a more recent Shiloh or possibly it is also a replacement).

I say that, not only because of the lack of a rear sight dovetail but also because of the finish (making allowances for photography).

The one important question is, how does it shoot?

59, What is the address on the side of your rifle's action?

303 mike hit it pretty much on all accounts, but it's not a #1 Sporting rifle , its a Long Range Express from the mid 80's. 34" std tube NO rear barrel sight or dovetail. The tube sight up frt has a post and way to big ball for fine shooting at more than 200 yds. The rear as he said is a std Sporting tang sight that came on the LRE. A #1 would have atleast a dovetail for a rear barrel sight and only 30" long with a blade frt. My money is on a 5-7k serial number with Shiloh Rifle Co Big Timber Montana on the left side of the rec and C . Sharps Arms Co. with {Old Reliable} tm to the left of the C. Sharps..on the top barrel flat. Put you in the 83-87 time range . Back then they came with real case hardening and nice wood. (options today) tell us the serial# exam 70xx or B60xx or 60xxB that will help date it. I believe that exact gun in 84 retailed for $790.00 got anymore questions? Magnum man

Magnum Man:

I will check my barrel for markings when I get home later today, but assuming you are correct, what was the quality of the barrels back then? I seem to recall Mike Venturino saying that the barrels back then were not as well made as under the current owner.

The seller claimed this was a Sporting Rifle #1 but did not have the box with him (he is sending it to me) and also claimed that it was made after 2000. We'll see.

Mag Man, if that gun is original, how do you explain the bluing on the barrel? Unless that is a photographic artifact, I don't think there is any way that is an original barrel. Which would be a good thing in my opinion.

Brent, Please explain your question about the blue on the barrel. I don't want to miss anything.

In this picture

The barrel looks to be almost unblued, or perhaps very thinly blued at most. Is that an artifact of the photo or is it really like that? All Shiloh barrels that I have seen are very deeply blued and do not look like that.

The rest of the rifle looks almost new from what I can tell. That would make wear an unlikely candidate for causing a thin blue and wear would look much different anyway.
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It is a nice rifle and I would not consider a rebarreling to be a bad thing - indeed, for some early Shiloh's it's a near requirement.

Okay, now I see your point. That photo must have been taken with flash which can distort coloring, especially in a close-up. Let's wait to hear how well it shoots.

The problem is with the photo. I was just trying to show the type of front sight, not show the condition of the gun. I think that's a palm print visible in the picture. The bluing is deep and flawless and the whole gun is very nicely finished.

The left side of the receiver says:

Shiloh Rifle Mfg. Co.
Big Timber, Montana

The top of the barrel is marked;

Shiloh-Sharps Model 1874

and farther down:

Calibre 45
2 1/10

The serial number is B42XX.

There are no other markings on the gun.

I am new to BPCR, but have a fairly discriminating eye.
This rifle appears to be in perfect condition. The bead on the front sight does not appear overly large to me, at least.

I have only shot a handful of cobbled-together handloads with 300 grain Speers and some 5744 left over from when I had a Marlin 1895. At 60 yards it will put one right on top of the other, but time and further testing will tell.

Thanks for all replies.

Greg

With a B serial, you will have a fine barrel. Congratulations and have fun!

I have a front sight like yours and that pin ball is adjustable for elevation, but you do have to drift the sight out to adjust the height.
It is a low profile sight that will work very good using the buck horn sight or tang.
I wish I had your rear sight!!

Glad to hear that! That is good to know. Thanks for the info.

some more pics:

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That rifle looks like it is brand new. There is no wear on the corners of the case colors at all.

Bluing looks good to

A fine rifle. I think I can hear it begging for black powder loads with paper patched bullets...

Don't know if I'm ready to try the paper-patched route yet, as I've still plenty to learn about casting GG bullets and loading real black powder. Some day, for sure, though.

Paper patches are easier. Really. They cast easier, they load easier and the load work up is simpler. Really.

gaperry59,it's a better deal than I thought, a Bryan built Shiloh is a better gun and better barrel than pre Bryan. it will shoot great. It is also a looker ,I still think it is a LRE though, best to send Lucinda a note thru the Shiloh site and ask her to research it for you if you are interested in how it came from the factory. good luck. Magnum Man

Not to hijack the thread but since we are on the subject can anyone tell me what sight is on the Saddle Rifle I bought is? I will get a better pic when I get home today. It is case hardened and has a vernier scale on the left side

Could be an MVA midrange - could be anything. Need much better pictures

I will get some close up pics this afternoon

Here is my response from Lucinda at Shiloh:

That rifle left here in October 1996 and is a long range express in 45-70 with a 34� standard weight barrel.

Lucinda

That pretty much tells you what it is... Now, if you want to find some black powder cartridge rifle shootin' goods, google Buffalo Arms Co., just in case you haven't heard of them. Google "spg lube" as well.

I've been using SPG lube on my sixgun bullets for years with perfect satisfaction, so I'm set there. Yeah, I've been on the Buffalo Arms site the last few days, and they've got a lot of good stuff to choose from. I'm thinking I'll start with the Lyman Postell bullet. I just took delivery of 25 lbs of GOEX black powder, and I have a ton of primers, so I'm ready to get busy.

Don't forget to order the .030 fiber wads.

So much for trying to answer questions before you ask them... It sounds like you're already on the right trail.

Good point Ranch 13, I wasn't sure whether to try the .030 or .060 wads, so I opted to try the .030 first.

.030 seems to be the best first choice with grease groove bullets.

See I told you, and the sights you showed in the picture were std equipment from that time frame. In your future you will want to replace the frt with atleast a MVA or Shiloh #111 which has replaceable sight inserts and some kind of vernier tang for the rear. goodluck and have fun. Magnum Man

If you decide to part with that rear sight, let me know. I might be willing to buy it.

If you are going to hunt in brush, I would go with a different front sight than a spring-clip operated MVA. Something that screws together, like a Lyman (cheap and good) or a Distant Thunder (not cheap but excellent) among others.
Brent