Bare rifle with heavy octagon at 30 inches?

Will be placing my order tomorrow and was curious about what I could expect.

Right close to 12 lbs.
When I sent mine back to have it rebarreled to 44-77 I had them to add the sling swivels.

Thanks

Still debating myself over cartridge, 45-90 or 44-90.

I just got a 45-70 Roughrider with no pewter and a shotgun buttplate. 30 inch Number One heavy barrel and a full buckhorn rear sight. 11 pounds, 6 oz on digital scales.

Nathaniel I really LOVE my 44/90 BUT is is unusual among the unusual. Jamison brass,RCBS Legacy dies and custom molds. I cannot find ONE single historical reference to ANYTHING but paper patched ammunition. Kurt 71 is waaaaayyy better at these than I am but it is a critter killer first class

Either or neither, 45-2 7/8" original style Loomer chamber for paper patch bullets only. " It's a lot easier to ride a fast horse slow than a slow horse fast" I said that, Magnum man.

I'ld really suggest you take a look at the 44-77. Shiloh has changed their chamber to a 7 degree lead. Brass is available in reformed 348's from BACO, Jamison should be about ready to run another batch of it shortly, and I'm having pretty decent results trimming down Norma basic 45 and fireforming.

Wow! That's one ugly looking brute! Nice pig though,

That's just the evil popping out on him. He's really a handsome fellow. From a distance...

Ed

What a TERRIBLE choice! I need to take that off of your hands immediately and save you from being disgraced.
Imagine what the other Grand Masters would say, knowing that you had such an example!
Now, for a rookie such as I, it wouldn't be so embarrassing to own.

Perhaps I should come out there later this week and look it over real well.

Ed

Thanks all,

Have made up my mind. Since I have a 45-90 and a 44-77 already it will be the 44-90. Wanted to go as historicaly accurate as possible for a buff rifle anyway. I know this will out me as a criminal but I shoot greasers in my 44-77 and am not set up for paper patching yet. So I could use a list of materials to get started with. Paper, template, grease wads, wads ect and a bullet mould to obtain. Looks like BACO has Jamision brass and a book on the paper patch subject.

Again, thanks

Depends on what you're going to shoot with that rifle. I had Baco redesign one of their moulds, and they came up with the 434470, that bullet is shooting well to 1000 yds. Old West has/had a copy of an original bullet , dual diameter 435 at the base with a 431 nose. It shoots well in my 44-77 at a couple of different lengths and makes a dandy hunting bullet.
Seth Cole 8 lb paper or this stuffhttp://www.utrechtart.com/Utrecht-Tracing-Paper-Roll--8-0-lb---White-26-MP-10
Get your template from BACO, but you'll need to cut your patches to the width you want for the bullet you're shooting.
I load my 44-77 with a lubed felt wad from Muzzleloader originals and a rubber cork wad punched with a Cornell .446 press mounted punch.
Dab of jojoba oil on the patches after the bullet is seated.

It's a done deal. Ordered from Goodman this morning and am told it will be four months for delivery.
#3 sporter
Standard wood
44-90
30 inch Heavy octagon
Bone and Charcoal finish
Traditional butt plate

When you say "traditional" buttplate, do you mean a traditional steel checkered shotgun buttplate, or the traditional military buttplate?

You will be way ahead of the game if it is the checkered steel shotgun buttplate.

THIS is the rifle you ordered. BTW, call Shiloh back and have the Hartford collar put on it. It is true to form for the 44/90. Mine has the military buttplate. I personally do not find it obnoxious to shoot,but I ain't wrapped too tight either

Will pass on the mil butt, looks like pain! The shotgun plate works for me.

The # 3 is $1854 and the Hartford model is $2082 stock dimensions the same either butt.With the Hartford you get the Hartford collar and pewter forend tip.99% of all 44-90's were made in Hartford by the time Sharps moved to Bridgeport they quit making 44's unless special ordered, in favor of 45's. The mil butt was more common out of Hartford guns but the checkered steel shotgun butt was availible. I favor the shotgun butt for shooting as opposed to just fondling, yet others don't. When you walk down the Quigley firing line you see more Shiloh Sharps in one place than anywhere in the world at one time. The preponderance of the guns are shotgun butted .Your shoulder tells you what to buy and for me that is a shotgun butt for hard kickers. Magnum Man

Have not shot the 44-90 a lot, but did not find the recoil to be objectionable.
The only time I've found the military butt to be any problem was when shooting from prone. Shooting sitting or off hand it's actually a bit easier to maintain its position on the shoulder and keep a good cheek weld than the shotgun butt.

The good or bad part of ordering through Goodman is you can still call him up and have him make changes up until it goes on the floor. The Hartford I ordered through him ended up costing me about $1500 more than when I first placed the order through him! It would have been more but the day I called to upgrade the wood to Fancy it had already gone to the floor!

Dang your hide, Bill.

Crimson Tide--If you saw this thing shoot, you would tear your underwear reaching for your wallet and credit card to get one. This thing is beyond crazy accurate. I've never had or seen one that shoots like this.

Bill is this a tight chamber gun or std? Are you using barrel sights on it or a vernier/scope feed us a little more info if you will, greasers or ppb's? Magnum man

MM--I have a tight chambered Business Rifle in 45-70 that shoots lights out with barrel sights--a semi buckhorn and a copper penny front blade. That rifle prompted me to get one with the tight chamber that I could put target sights on. I mounted a Parts Unknown (Red River) Mega Soule and a MVA 111 on the front on the new rifle. So this rifle has the tight chamber.

I load a 480 grain paper patched bullet over 71 grains of KIK 2f. Using a blow tube, no wiping, three days ago the rifle put 10 of these in 4 3/8 inches at 500 yards. The temperature was 100.2 F according to my digital thermometer and the humidity was 32%. The gun cleaned up with 4 patches. It will put 5 in 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 inches on a regular basis if I do my part.

The load consists of a Starline case, full length sized, a BR2 primer, and 71 grains of KIK 2f drop tubed. The powder is compressed with a compression die, and a wad cut from a milk carton, then a 3/16 grease cookie followed by another milk carton wad goes in the case. The patched bullet is seated .200 deep in the case and held in place by using a Lyman taper crimp die.

I frankly don't know whether to laugh or cry. Laugh because I have a rifle and load that shoots like this today, or cry because I didn't have it five or ten years ago.

Cool Bill, when you said it was a Montana Roughrider my mind went into overdrive and figured you wanted a LR gun with straighter stock for good cheek weld when the sight was up in the 1.5-2" on the staff.I still like the milkcarton wad at.023" thick but also have been getting excellent service from Minutemaid Lemonade cartons same stuff but at .026", you don't get good lemonade with veg wads.Lotta guys still don't understand or follow the rational of the original style tight chamber so give them a clue here and explain that sizing the new brass only needs to be done once and what your simple loading procedure is.No crying needed but you need to wander north next June and slaughter the infidels at the Q.Need more details also on your patch and bullet for those thinking of getting their feet wet on ppb's. Magnum man

Bob--I have thought about coming back to Quigley, I really have. If I go to another match, it will be the "Q". The problem is time, distance, and money. It is about 3700 miles round trip from here to Forsyth. I will have to be gone at least 9 days, maybe 10 and pull my travel trailer. That means that there will be $1300 to $1400 fixed fuel costs, and that doesn't include anything else. I will be out of pocket three grand to make the trip by the time we eat and do the other things that come up. And I can just about go to Africa again for that kind of money, or send my wife to see her family in the Philippines. When I look at it like that, the Quigley gets put off for another year. Having said that, I really would like to give Quigley another whirl. We'll see.

What we need is a gong match in western Kansas/eastern Co, sometime when the weather is half ways decent. Lord knows that country is flat enough you could have an 88000 yd target and still be able to see it..

I need to come back down and see that new rifle and file my new full buckhorn barrel site in.

Gunner

Give me a shout.

Show nuff, Bill.

Gunner

Man, I wish my S/Sharps would shoot that many rounds without wiping. About three is all I can do with PP bullets. That's why I LOVE the 475gr Parker Hale Greaser, I can shoot ALL DAY!

I know what you mean about the 475 Parker Hale greaser. It is a great bullet that shoots in all of my 45 caliber rifles. This new rifle is especially fond of it.

Bill can probably help you with advice on that,STD chambers are basically designed for grease groove use and become problematic for patch to bore dia ppb use. I've allways thought the " Holy Grail" of ppb use was to have repeat shots with accuracy without blowing or wiping.Pursued it for years and did not satifactorily realize it until getting Shiloh to build me a Business rifle with the chamber cut with Orville Loomers original style tight chamber. A std chamber has a inside case fired dia at the mouth of .460-.462" which releases .458" greasers just fine not a tight fit for a ppb patched to .450" dia.which is also the inside dia of a fire case in the tight chamber. Without a lube wad you have to rely on a multi layer exotic wad stack to seal off burning powder and gases that burn patches and flame cut bullets as well as still having to wipe every shot to maintain bore condition for repeatable accuracy.The right lube wad is the first step it lubricates your fouling and keeps it soft, if you allow your fouling to dry(from barrel heat) you lose your accuracy ,then your mere ability to chamber the next round.My 40-70 with a std type chamber was dallied with for many years of no desirable results using ppb's after using the tight chamber in my 45 2 7/8" I began to see a pattern of why it didn't work as desired. So try this, take 10 fired cases and just deprime and clean them. load them with your chosen primer, charge and card wad, compression, grease cookie, card wad. It's allready for your patched to bore dia . .450" ppb but the case mouth is still .462-.460" size the last 1/4" of case to .450 ID and install ppb or install loose and squeeze with a taper crimper. The fire formed case will provide you with the best inline seating plus having 90% of the bullet in the bore. I believe the tight case fit contributes to removing excess hard fouling in the throat.With the right lube wad and the tight chamber you can shoot long time as Bill stated without blowing and wiping.short of a tight chamber like his or mine you may not get all you want but sizing the mouth after loading a fireform case will help quite a bit. RMC thickwall brass will eliminate sizing as the fired inside dia will be.450". Talk some more with Bill and he will have his own ideas to help you out. A vld inside chamfer and using a 45acp tungsten carbide size die squeeze down the end for starters. good luck Magnum_Man

No real big trick to shooting dirty with a standard chamber, but you do need to do things a wee bit different than a rifle chambered with a copy of an original chamber.
Just need to use a bit bigger bullet, seat a little deeper and use a clean powder , along with a good wad column.

Mag, I've been working with Bill on this all along and I have been blowing after every shot and have tried fire formed and full sized brass. The 500gr brooks mold bullet seems to help quite a bit as well. I the end I'm sure it's still mostly "operator error" on my part!

Much better bullet selections in .45 caliber. I shoot a .45/100 Hartford model. It is heavy at 9 1/2 pounds. I can't imagine hunting with a 12 pound rifle.

Brass is available from reformed .348 Winchester brass which I also shoot.

Really can't imagine why anyone would try to reform 348 Win into 45-100 or AKA 45-2.6". Lets see the rim is to large as well as the base of the casing. Not to mention Bertram and Starline are readily availible as well several brands of 45 Basic brass .ppine, you maybe trolling us a little? Magnum-Man

As usual, beyond your intelligence.

Aw jeeze MM there ya go getting all practical again....
BTW you left out trimming Jamison 110 brass to length.

Gee Ranch, if a guy had Jamison 110 seems like it would be smarter to send the gun back to Shiloh and get reamed into a full sized chamber instead a wasting brass by cutting it down,into something your girl friend could shoot pop cans with.But shoot, there's no accounting for almost westcoasters is there? Magnum Man

Could very well be... I do know they make dang good 45-70 paper patch cases when you shorten them up.

Ranch how much thicker do the walls get going from 2.875 down to 2.1"? I know for a fact that newer Norma 3.25 basic won't give you any thicker wall for 2.875" use trimmed. Magnum man

I'ld have to go measure , but when you get down to the 2.1 length you can't seat nor chamber a greaser.

Nothing wrong with a .45/70 caliber, but like ET said the big .44 bottle neck is a great game caliber now as it was back on the Buff Hunts in the later halve of the 1800's as well as the .44-77.

I have two .44/2.5/8 BN Shiloh's. One I pulled the barrel and re barreled it with an original .44-100 rem chamber because it had a standard modern .44-2-5/8" chamber that was recut with a 7 degree throating reamer that shot OK but not as well as the other .44-2-5/8" BN that has a chamber that the original .44-100 BN Sharps had. It will not seat a GG bullet but it outshot the new modern chamber of the first Rough Rider.
With the 1/19 twist the Shiloh rifle will come with your bullet choice will be limited to a shorter lighter bullet but don�t let this bother you because it will shoot just as well as the old dead guys shot when the .44-90/100 was popular on the hunting fields and the Creedmoor range.
Save yourself a lot of time and money on bullet moulds and forget the exotic new fad sharp pointed nosed bullets and get a mould cut like what they used back in the heydays of the .44's. You might have to twist the elevation knob one more turn but that bullet will get the job done just fine at whatever range toy point that rifle at.

Now to finish finding my way Home out of these Mountains.

Great kill Jim. Congrats.