Hmm, let us say that Mr. Matthews and I are not on the same page in all respects. His "Wind Drift and Deceleration of the Cast Bullet at Black Powder Velocities" is a little thin on support but long on his beliefs. On the subject of a single caliber I agree with him that heavier is better, as would anyone else. His comparison betwixt different calibers seems a bit mystical to me...I shall read it once again, pondering his words and hoping I can crawl inside his mind and comprehend. I am a disciple of drag, deflection and a few of the finer points of exterior ballistics. Mr. M believes apparently that drift is drift, momentum rules the day with the help of surface area/ grains of weight and sectional density is irrelevant. Well, his is a different take and perhaps I am misguided...shall take a second read of his brief tome and get back with some detail...

Sharpshooter, don't feel bad about my effect or your psyche, I'm heading for the liquor locker... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"...the bullet exposed for the longer time will suffer the greatest amount of wind drift regardless of its velocity." Paul Matthews

This is demonstrably incorrect. Standard velocity match ammo for .22 LR is more resistant to drift/deflection than High Velocity ammo of same form and weight. True on the drift tables published by manufacturers and true on the range. It has nothing to do with bore, everthing to do with drag.

"There are two schools of thought relative to wind drift, one being the amount of drift is based upon the duration of time the bullet is exposed to the wind, and the other beiing the amount of wind drift is based upon the difference of the duration of time the bullet is actually exposed to the wind and the duration of time the bullet would have been exposed had it been fired in a vaccuum. This difference is time is called "lag time" and greatly favors bullets of low velocity. This is because the slower a bullet travels, the less air resistance and drag there is against the bullet and the more nearly it perforems as though in a vacuum." Paul Matthews

Lag time is a valid measure, it does not however favor slower bullets. It is a way to insert the actual effects of drag into the deflection equation, over the specified distance, regardless of velocity. ToF is otherwise irrelevant to the calculation. If one calculates the drift based soley on time of flight and wind velocity you will find the offset much larger than what actually occurs. It will also yield an answer contrary to the fact stated above regarding .22 Match/Hi-vel ammo, said answer being incorrect.

Well, I have used Matthews info to good effect in regards to paper patch loading and shooting, and have recommended to many since my first read. I've not shared precisely the same results but find it a fine primer at least, maybe more. He and I are worlds apart on the issue of this book though. No doubt we will both go to our graves convinced of our being right.

I saw an interesting advertisement for many of his works in the "Track of the Wolf" catalog recently received, one that said he had parted ways with the gospel yet his work rang true. My words not theirs. Maybe after I jump into this BPCR thing I'll see another light, until then.......

It's to bad you had to learn the hard way about those books of Mathews, that's how you learn I guess. Those thoughts written in those books are not always his.

I have to say what you've written in your posts concerning wind drift/deflection and deceleration for black powder bullets mirrors Dan Theodores writings. Dan T. has written quite abit on wind deflection, stabilization and very informative teachings about wind drift/deflection and bullet stabilization and it's causes, amoung other things.

I also don't agree with all that you've written either, that's neather here nor there though.

Kelley O.

Back to lerking mode.

Kelly, welcome aboard! If everybody agreed with everything I say life would be a stagnant pond would it not? There is somebody somewhere, closer to the truth. Most of what I know, or think I know, is born in the crucible of debate, for it is the catalyst that sparks understanding. Weigh in when you wish...I have no ax to grind.

I've not heard of the Theodores fellow, Google seems unaware too, where might I find info on his works?

Dan

Go over to www.bpcr.net and you'll find thoughts and writings from Dan T.

While I enjoy reading most of his tech writings and find him informative his political rants from the left have raised my blood pressure once or twice.

He is a proponent of the small bores for long range and researches and documents well.

My 2 cents
Gary

Thanks for that, on the way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

PF2, read some of his "articles" in the tech section, pretty much agree with what he says. Have a couple of questions so I'll join up and fire away. Don't care a whit about his politics, no need to go there.

Thanks again for the link, and Kelly, thanks for the mention.

Regards -

Ditto on the problems with the Mathews books. Long on words, short on truth.

SS

Mathews..................makes a casting ladle, out of a ....................................GALVANIZED... pipe fitting?

Boys, want yuz ta' go put some ZINC in yer alloy.........

gimme a break, GTC

Well, I wet the keyboard on that'n...zinc goes on the noses of surfers, or under boats...keeps the electric worms at bay...

My word, I'm not getting along with that Yahoo/BPCR format...dinosaurous brainous setting in...the tech articles are interesting, metalurgy and breaking in barrels..austentitus/marsentius...point mass conflagarations I understand...that pea pickin' Yahoo thing though...thank you Lord for...spears and knives, muzzle loaders and plain ol' Rigbys. Wazza matter with Infopoop? Arrrgh! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> No chat in that world for this Dan.

Crossfire, you have any experience with those bullets w/o grease grooves?

Dan

The forums on bpcr.net have been down for awhile due to hackers, I hope they come back soon as it was one of my fovorite stops.

Ditto's on missing the bpcr.net Forums...............anyone know when it may come back up?

Dan, Pathfinder is messing around with those, if I'm not mistaken..............................no persomal experience with 'em, myself.

GTC

Re-read yer post....do you mean paper patched, or the NASA, Dan?

GTC

The NASA thing was what I was addressing. Dan T. seems kinda proud of it, at least in the tech info letter...