So,

After a quarter century love affair inspired by Quigley Down Under, I put down a deposit at Shiloh Sharps on one of these:



It's chambered in 45-70, because I'm not a BP purist and might consider shooting smokeless rounds (although then again, I might not.)

I'm not likely to be shooting steel at ungodly distances. However, I believe I'd like to hunt with it.

Your suggestions for sight packages would be welcome. At 53, I don't have the greatest eyesight, so consider that with your reply. Also, as I doubt that I'd be shooting over 250 yards, is a mid-range vernier tang sight worth the jingle?

Thanks in advance,

KP

For a HUNTING sight, a vernier is not what you want. Way too slow and too fragile. The very best hunting sight comes on your Shiloh. It is the barrel buck horn sight and blade front. If you have trouble seeing the blade, get glasses that allow you to see it. Correlate the sight ladder with a laser rangefinder. TRULY learn to use the ladder barrel sight, and you can reach from the end of your barrel to as far as you can see. Remember this: buffalo were killed by the millions with Sharps rifles and BARREL SIGHTS by men who knew how to use them. I'm not blowing smoke, I've hunted with a Sharps for years with barrel sights and traditional ammunition. Don't handicap yourself with a vernier for hunting.

sharpsguy told it like it is.

My eyes don't mesh well with barrel sights any more. A large aperture peep works much better for me. On my C. Sharps '85 and '74 that are for hunting, I have what they called their New Ideal sporting tang sight. MVA sells a similar tang sight model for the Shiloh.

You have no idea how much you are handicapping yourself with that dinky peep sight. It is as simple as getting a pair of cheap reading glasses that let you see the front sight, then LEARNING HOW to run and use the ladder barrel sight.

Hell, I'm 72 years old and have to wear glasses to tie my shoes, but I use the barrel sights on my Shilohs and will kill elk and deer all day long at 3 and 4 hundred yards if I need to.

I'm with tmitch. There are considerable accuracy gains going with a tang sight. Much longer sight plain. Congrats on the Sharps. Probably the finest craftsmanship to be had on a US production firearm.

Hey Tmitch and 1minute, have you men shot any animals much over 50 yards with these sights on your BPCR's?

If so, you posses a far greater talent than I'll ever dream of having, must be pure speed to be able to range and animal then correlate/adjust a sight like this a fire a clean killing hit on a game animal.

Is there a way you mark/file the danged threads on the thing so you can spin it up or down to a predetermined range mark?

Thanks for the information,
Gunner

On your scoped rifles without a yardage marked elevation turret or reticle, how in the world do you shoot an animal past your sight-in distance?

LOL, I see, Kentucky windage rotated 90 degrees, I was wondering because I remember the precise movements and slight marks on the ladder barrel sight that Sharpsguy was making for me, he had me ringing steel with my 45-70 Shiloh from 100 out to 500 yards in about 30 minutes.

The sight correlation marks running up the ladder allow me to have precise aiming points, I need that fine aiming point.

Who's using a scoped rifle?

Frank Mayer did. Perhaps he couldn't see barrel sights either?
I don't dispute that fine work can be done with ladder sights. However in a hunting situation with low contrast targets, old eyes with a healthy dose of presbyopia then, for me at least, a large aperture and blade front is the answer. What's the use of finely tuned yardage marks when you can't even get a sight picture?

Cheer up guys,....my new improved Braille sights are in final development.

They're not going to be cheap, so we'll be offering a chit hot layaway plan.

GTC

I tape a white cane to my barrel

Frank Mayer did not use a scope with no way to judge distance. His scope was a 20 power German Vollmer with two additional sets of cross hairs that covered a distance of 30 inches at 200 yards. No turrets, but a bdc reticle of sorts. Regardless of what you might think at first glance, a properly set up ladder and blade is a far more effective HUNTING sight than a scope on a BPCR. A set of eyeglasses that lets you see the front blade will allow you to use the barrel ladder sight.

Sharpsguy is right. From my experience hunting with iron sights, the open sight is a better hunting sight. I will go one better and say that the wide V and bead is better than the buckhorn and blade for me, or I also prefer just a flat bar and a bead where my hunting is and the ranges at less than 200 metres.

But a V or buckhorn rear and a front blade will work better for longer range shots if you hunt in open country all the time.

I have come to the conclusion that aperture sights are better for target shooting.

Most folks don't understand that a standard full buckhorn rear barrel sight can be used like a rear aperture sight!! But you won't accomplish the mission by shooting 4-5 shots and hollering "Aw schitt"! Takes time behind the rifle!!

Preach it, Brother, Preach It!

tmitch, I'm another one with less than young eyes, more than a little presbyopia, and a Shiloh 1874 in .45-70.

That said, the Grand Masters here have convinced me by showing and teaching me how to consistently use the buckhorn rear ladder sight and a blade front sight to make GOOD hits out past 500 yards. I didn't believe it could be done until they took the time to teach me. They have figured out how the Old Guys did it and have repeated it time after time.

These guys aren't talking out of their butts, there are videos of these guys doing what they are preaching.

Tang sights are great IF you have the time to fiddle with them to change elevation for varying distances. What Gunner500 said about the ladder sight is absolutely true.

You don't lose the hunting accuracy and you certainly gain speed.

Even if you choose the tang sights, get someone to show you how to properly use the ladder sights. You'll be very glad you did when a quick shot is needed and no time to twirl he knob(s) on a tang sight.

To KP, congratulations on the Shiloh, you won't be disappointed in quality or accuracy.

Ed

Damn right Ed, kinda amazing what you saw under that little shaded shooting bench not far from you, huh?

If one man's magic is another man's science, I saw a lot of magic at that shaded bench.

Just grateful as Hell that he decided to take me under his wing. He's forgotten more about this game than most will ever know.

Crossfireoops is another enabler of this addiction that has seen the elephant.

One of these days I'll get to shake Sharpsman's and Ranch 13's hands, too. If they'll let me in their presence...

Ed

Sharpsguy....ain't no idiot either! He's 100% right in stating that a pair of cheap glasses from Wally World can get you to seeing the sights again if you're careful in the glasses you pick in diopter strength! If you expect to see a target totally in focus at the same time you're seeing the sights you're asking to defy nature because the eye can't focus on two different objects at the same time but it's imperative that you see the sights in your primary vision clearly and your target in the secondary vision which will be slightly out of focus! THAT'S the way it should be!!

Well thank you guys. I'll try the reading glasses next time I go out with the Sharps. See how it goes for me. In fact it will give me an excuse to go out. Love the Sharps. I'm staying with the buck horn.

I haven't taken the time to learn to use the ladder sight like some of the more experienced guys here - I went straight to the vernier sight and sight in 3" high at 100 yards and limit my range to 150'ish so I'm not dialing in for longer shots. Most of my hunting is in thicker country and shots are usually either side of 100 yards (I've never shot any game over 200 yards with a scoped bolt rifle).

In more open country, I can certainly see the benefits of the ladder sight. I've been using reading glasses to help with handgun shooting and think I need to give the ladder sights a try...

I spent most of an afternoon closing the distance on this one from probably 1/2 mile to 150 yards. Put the top of the copper penny front sight on his spine and...

Gotta' LOVE a nice well handled, squared away Ballard !

GTC

Outstanding!

Would you care to share the spec of the rifle & load? You've already shared one of the greater "secrets" of barrel sights, namely that front sight.

Ed

10-4 on the 'magic' Ed, I do know 520 grs of lead swatting 500 yard steel is some sweet sweet music.

I got to shake Sharpsmans hand when I bought his Shiloh 45-110 bull barrel gun, I can't believe he took a check from me.

I can believe it. I told him your check was good.

Musta been written in pencil...

My heaviest bullet(so far) is still the 457125 "Gov't" bullet which comes out right at 515gr for me.

One of these days I'll get serious about something other than that wonderful 457121, the "Parker Hale" bullet, originally intended for muzzle loaders. 475gr of pure smackdown. Well, 20:1 smackdown.

I could see a 530-535gr Postell in my future.

Ed

Ballard #4 Perfection (Cody, WY repro) in 45-70. Bullet is from a Steve Brooks mold - 543 gr, 30:1 alloy, "original Postell" design (closer to a round nose). Load is 66 gr Swiss 1-1/2...

That'll do!

Thanks,

Ed

LOL, thanks buddy, I needed the support.

500+ grains in 45 cal sure gets it done Ed, I love hunting with these rifles.

gunner500

I get 'intel' from a guy once I've been in his presence and talked with him five minutes!

You're the REAL DEAL dude!

Happy 4th to you and all you other guys!!

I appreciate the compliment and feel the same about you Rick, I thoroughly enjoyed the 30 min visit.

Wasn't it nice for two grown men to be standing in a state police weigh station built in the median with morning rush hour traffic whizzing by on both sides examining and shouldering a rifle conducting a perfectly legal gun sale?

Could you imagine the SWAT/News choppers were we to try that in some other states, hell, we would have been shoot, dog bit and tazed?

It is good to be from, and still live, work, and prosper in FREE STATES!

Happy 4TH to you and yours too buddy, AND ALL YOU OTHER HOLY BLACK BURNERS!!!!!

Hopefully I can take a slight 'detour' on the way to the camp in Med Lodge and stop in for a cup of 'Joe'! I'd call before hand of course! Providing no rain later this evening there will be a lot of BOOMING going on here as all the family members will be bringing fireworks to my place since I'm out in the boondocks!

And a GOOD DAY to all! REMEMBER....this day ain't about BBQ!!

Sounds like a hell of a plan!

I put Vaver peeps on my 45-70 Rolling Block. It is with Nick Hughes, a fellow Okie, for the stock. I like the Vaver because you can install various size inserts in both front and rear sights.

Butch,

I had to look Vaver Sight Co. up but couldn't find out when they started business.

Were they contemporary to Remington building the Rolling Blocks?

The pictures on the web show some really well made sights.

Ed

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Quite a few of them will readily drink kool-aid, though.

But the ponies was thirsty, or they wouldn't have asked where the fuggin pond was.

I like coffee Kool Aid.



A work in progress.

Bluing salts, and two sticks of fine hand rubbed oiled English await?

Plus the color case.

You should have sent that roller to Crossfire. I don't think what you've got going there is gonna buff out. Ever heard of a Rough and Ready Remington sight?

A little along the lines of the roller Crossfire built up.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8815281/1

We'll see. Greg builds a nice rifle. I believe my Bro in law has one of his rifles.

I do believe 'Da Cross'....know what he be a doin!!

I hear this, I cant see the barrel sights and I have also said it my self. But for hunting there is nothing better then the barrel sights on a rifle. My 3/4 century old lamps are plagued with heavy floaters and cataracts that are getting heavier and I had my hunting rifle tapped for scope blocks last year thinking a scope might just be the ticket. I never hunted with a scope and I just this weekend used a scope for a silhouette match. not because I cant see the sights but because I could not see the iron critters blended in the dark berm on a over cast day.
If one can still read your favorite comic book you can see the sights. One just has to use the barrel sights to learn how to shoot with them. A aperture sight is good for target but leave it home on a hunting trip like some have said here.
Last fall I took a Bison with my Sharps with the scope on it and I had no problem hitting him at 158 yards, good shot through the lung but he took off like a bronc rider put a burr under the saddle and I needed a follow up shot. Well the Thor's hammer the Sharps has with the scope over it and a right handed shooter I cussed it under my breath loading a shell for a quick follow up.
That scope came off when the Buff was on the ground and It will never go back on my hunting rifle again.
I shoot the Lawrence ladder sight and I shoot it just as well as I do the tang. Heck I even shot a 1585 yard full sized iron buff with out a problem.
Below is my hunting rifle. It is everything most don't even want to pull the trigger on. Barely a 10# rifle but that .44-77 shoots. The target was shot at a close range of 130 yards getting ready for the hunt. The blocks are in the box now.

Kurt,

Is that a Shiloh? How do you like the single trigger vs. the double set triggers?

Obviously, you shoot it very well with the single.

Ed

Don't let any body kid you. Kurt can shoot.

Ed,

Yes it's a Shiloh Hartford .44-77. I ordered it as a hunting rifle with a single trigger and the light weight 30" barrel standard wood with a crescent butplate.
The trigger is just under 3# and I have no problem with that what so ever. Clean crisp break.
I don't like a set trigger for hunting in cold weather when I have gloves on.
A friend build me the original Hartford front sight with the bronze blade and the rear is the Lawrence Military ladder sight. A good all around combination.
The .44-77 is a great caliber. I use a 485 gr bullet for the hunt. It is a copy of what the original profile was and it is good.
The only thing that is wrong with this rifle is, I ordered it with a polished barrel.

Thank you Sharps-G I have good days as well as bad days like every one else.

Here is the last Buff I took. It was a 18 month young bull and you can see that I was struggling loading a follow up shot. That scope will never be on this rifle for a hunt again. I made the mistake patching the bullet a little to tight for hunting. That shot was good just 2" above the heart through the lung and the follow up shot was right next to it.
https://flic.kr/p/zeehxn