I'm planning on buying a new truck in the next couple months... Looking for opinions on an F-250 (6.2 liter) or the Toyota Tundra (5.7 liter).

It'll be my daily driver, but my commute is only about 10 miles each way. I won't tow frequently with it, but enough to warrant consideration. Heaviest load will be tractor and trailer at about 6K. I will also be using it to get to our camp property which is a pretty rugged mile of off-road trail for access. I'll be towing a trailer with lumber and supplies up to camp frequently.

I'm currently driving a 2011 F-150, and am considering the F-250 and Tundra for a little extra ground clearance. I was leaning toward the F-250 but given my newly-short commute, I'd like to keep this truck for a long time, and I think the Tundra gets the edge for long-term reliability and resale value...

Appreciate everyone's opinions.... thanks.

If you really need the F250 then that is the route I would go, I would give the Toyota and edge in reliability. I know of a few people first hand that have/had both , 2 have had Fords and moved to Tundras. I have seen Ford people move to Tundras but not reverse FWIW. I like them both

Half ton pickups and 3/4 ton pickups are different beasts. The choice between the two depends entirely upon what you intend to do with it. For what you plan I would choose the tundra without question. The F250 will do more work, no doubt, but you're only going to occasionally use that ability and even then the 6000 lbs. you'll tow is easily within the tundra's capability.

The quality edge goes to the Toyota, there's no comparison in that regard. I have a 1999 dodge 2500 diesel and a 2016 tundra. The 2500 dodge is a beast, but the toyota is more user friendly for the daily chores you mention. If it's meant to be a daily driver with lightweight towing duties then the tundra is your best choice.

Tundra.

If you were looking to do a lot of heavy towing, I'd go F250.

Toyota reliability? LOL



That's Toyota's better idea three piece frame that's bolted together.

Then there is the Toyota's air injection pump system that was failing right and left on the Tundra and Sequoia leaving owners with a $4000 repair. Eventually Toyota stepped in an extended the warranty on the system.

Click Here

Finally, ask yourself this - how many Toyota's do you see on the streets that have a business name on the side, ladder racks on top, in other words set up for day-to-day work on the job site? That's right - none. Meanwhile, Ford trucks are on the job 24 hours a day, every single day. When your Toyota breaks down, chances are it will be a Ford tow truck that arrives to help you. Apparently, business owners know which truck is the most reliable.

a 6000 lb trailer is well within the capabilities of an F150 ecoboost

if you are going to pull 10000 and up , the 3/4 ton is the way to go

As an F-250 owner for 6yrs, I wouldn't own one as a daily driver in town unless I had to tow a bunch, plow snow, or some other type of "work" with the truck. For occasional towing and daily driving a 1/2T is a nicer ride and easier to manuver in town.

I drive a car daily, the pickup is for family trips (lots of room), hunting, pulling the boat, and hauling ice fishing gear. Other than that it sits in the garage. Both of mine have been diesel which makes them a bigger pain for daily in-town driving.

A 1/2 ton can handle it but you might need an equalizer hitch. You shouldn't need one with a 3/4.

Tundra is more of a 1/2 ton +p.

It'll rip, and stop, with a 6k trailer. Great truck. Thirsty as a bitch s the only reason I'd not want one for a daily use vehicle.

The Tundra will drink more gas than most 1/2 tons. But I doubt if it it will be any worse than a 6.2 liter gas engine in a 3/4 ton. Probably better.

Either will do the job you need to do. If fuel mileage is a concern the 1/2 tons made by Ford and Chevy will be 2-3 mpg better than Tundra.



I see lots of DIESEL Ford f-250/350'S used in businesses where the torque is needed to pull heavy loads. I see MORE Tundras used where a lighter duty application will work. You are comparing apples to oranges. Toyota does not offer a heavy duty truck with a diesel engine. Comparing a gas engine F-250 with a Tundra is pretty much an even comparison. My money is on the Tundra to outlast, out pull, and out perform a gas F-250.

I have had all the brands. I think Toyota has the least skimping on quality. Ford has also treated me pretty well but I trust my Tundra the most of any truck. They all suck in some ways and are a big money hole, but I need a truck for the rural life. I dont use mine for horse trailers or boats etc, so a small V8 with a short bed is best for the hunt. A 250 is a huge daily trade off for big loads. I am personally better off getting one ton of wood pellets at a time, and taking two trips to get mulch. I like the smooth ride, moderate gas mileage, and ease of parking compared to a big rig. If I hit the lottery I would probably get a Tacoma for my needs. Less is more sometimes.

I own a Tundra (07 with tow package), it has over 100,000 completely trouble free miles. It runs like a spooked deer and tows very well all the way to its weight limit.

its not as good on fuel as some of the newer trucks BUT put it in a weighted low crawl tow situation and NO 1/2 ton will hang. any others out there with .430 gears? I can back a heavy trailer on a step grade without 4 low and without worrying about toasting the tranny.

the Ford 6.2 is harder on fuel and still don't have as much grunt, I have driven them all and the only thing close with a load for all around use is the Ram 1/2 ton IMO.

Toyota got it right out of the gate by using the low gears with the Aisin tranny, perfect truck? No, but a really good one..

I see lots of businesses around here using Tundras, having talked to a few of them they say they are trouble free work horses.

It never ceases to amaze me that the toyota guys feel the need to try to compare their "special" 1/2 ton truck to a 3/4 ton truck.

The toyota is in no way, shape or form equal to a gas or diesel powered 3/4 ton truck. To think so is ridiculous.

I agree it's not equal to a half ton, but it is a hell of a lot closer than any other 1/2 on the market.

no the Tundra is not and never will be a 2500, wasn't designed to be, but spend some time behind the wheel of one in the real world of work/off road like I have and it will make a believer of you in short order.

I've never been a Toy fan but now that my butt has been behind the wheel for over 100,000 and 8 years I can tell you without hesitation I would buy another. I don't baby my stuff, it has seen it's fair share of WOT and off road, it has never let me down..

They are all building good trucks now, they have to or get put out of business, Toyota could use an engine/trans upgrade to stay competitive and I've heard they are planning an upgrade next year with a redesign engine/8 speed trans?

for what the OP was needing? Tundra all the way.

Unless you're going to tow alot, the Tundra would be better for you, BUT I have never owned a Tundra. I did own two Tacomas that I didn't even keep a year, and I now have a '13 Ford King Ranch F250 with a 6.7L turbo diesel, which has been trouble free. I get 18 MPG with it, as good as my Tacoma got, and I had to Premium fuel to do it. Never tow with it, but when people ask what I tow, I say "whatever I want"!

Interesting thread.

I'm a huge Toyota fan, I've owned a bunch for my business in South Africa. They are as their reputation reflects the top of the heap for well engineered durable dependable vehicles.

I've owned an F150 which although a 1/2 ton was much more capable then that. Personally I prefer to invest in a truck rather then trade it off for new. That's just me. If I put in 2...3.....5 thousand bucks that's a long shot less then a new one. Especially if you know the use it had since new.

My truck is 12 years old this year. I'm gonna have it a long time! Kept up and maintained a good pickup will last a hella long time! My land cruiser in the states was 30 years old when I sold it.

Since in your original post you mentioned wanting this new vehicle for the additional Ground Clearance, ..... That's a pretty easy solution without getting a new truck. There are a number of off road suspensions available for the F150 that will get it 2" Plus higher up. You cannot get the axles higher without taller tires, but if you increased the suspension travel say 3" you could certainly fit 33" tires which would get you a bit more then the stock Tundra or F250 would have. For a whole lot less money then a brand new truck too! Probably under a 1000 bucks installed!

Not to mention the additional capability with a better suspension and shocks

I don't have time to waste playing around with a truck that can't do the work that I require a truck to do. Therefore, I already KNOW that the toyota would fail in my real world of work/off road use.

That's the reason for having a real 3/4 ton truck and not some make believe version of one.

All of which means ufck all to the OP.

Regarding the axle ratio, things aren't the same as they used to be. Note: I'm not talking about horsepower, torque, tire diameter or vehicle weight etc.

Back in the day, output shafts from transmissions in high gear were 1:1. With that standard one could just look at the axle ratio and determine the ability to pull in high gear and then further look at lower gears for further pulling abilities.

The transmission gears in the Tundra are each taller from 1 through 6 than on the F-250 transmission. The overdrive on T is .588 and the F. is .67. I'd look at the T and the F at very near parity for final drive ratios at T being 4.30 and F being 3.73.

My F-250 with stock tires and 3.73 gears runs about 1550 rpm at 60 mph.

For discussion and comparison, does anyone have rpm numbers for a stock Tundra at 60 mph?

yes I would agree on the final drive ratio but the low end is where the difference is. the T is in the same ball park @ 60 mph.
It's funny that some think the Toy is trying to be a 2500, If that were the case it would have been labeled as such.

I too have a 2500, a 2000 Dodge with a cummins, it gets the heavy work and handles it quite well but again, for a half ton the toy truck shines..

If someone pulls into my place up North driving a jap made vehicle asking to hunt there I will say no.

If they drive up in a USA made vehicle I will like that.

whooooo boy.....

That's what they're tellling customers. I've talked to a couple Toyota dealers and both told me that all the parts on a Tundra are rated for a 3/4 ton except the springs. If that's the case, why don't they swap springs and market a 3/4?

My Toyota was made in Texas Genius

he thinks they're made in china.......

I think That a lot of the guys are believing that because they have heard this story from Dodge and Ford regarding the 3/4 ton VS 1 ton

The only difference there is the springs and running lights. ..... Oh and the ride quality. My 2500 has a 6'6" bed with the 3/4 ton suspension. It's plenty stiff with E rated tires. With the 1 ton springs it would be wicked stiff!

I think that the Toyota has the lighter springs for the majority that never come close to design limits. Then they have a nice comfortable ride. I wonder if the axles could actually handle the 3/4 ton loads, of if the Transmissions could actually handle a 10,000 pound trailer at 65mph up a 7000ft mountain pass, or if the brakes are big enough to handle the stopping duty on the down hills? Try this from Indiana to Sacramento across the mountains monthly? That's the real difference, not the intermittent heavy loads, but the routine loads like a 28' fifth wheel going across country? The horse trailer pulled weekly over a mountain pass etc..

I had a F-150 and looked at the 2015 and 2016 Tundra to upgrade for towing. They had more hp but no improved towing or hauling rating from the factory engineers.

I did some additional research to form my own opinion regarding the "spin" that the Tundra salesperson gave me about capability being beyond 1/2 ton performance.

One discovery was about gearing and the low axle ratio he bragged about. It is the impact of transmission ratios on final drive ratio the Toyota does bother to explain. Smoke and mirrors.

Tundra Gears ratio's (cut and paste from Edmunds.com)

Transmission ratios (x:1)
I = 3.33; II = 1.96; III = 1.35; IV = 1.00; V = 0.73; VI = 0.59
Final-drive ratio (x:1) 4.30


F-250 ratios from Ford website (cut and paste)

Gear Ratios (to :1)
1st 3.97
2nd 2.31
3rd 1.51
4th 1.14
5th 0.85
6th 0.67
Reverse 3.12

The Tundra 1st gear is some 15% taller than the F-250.
The tundra 6th gear is some 12% or so taller than the F-250.
The Tundra axle is some 13% or so lower than the F-250.

In practicality, the final ratios in each are at basic parity.

Just sayin,

Marv

Bigger brakes, master cylinder, radiator, and differentials don't count as differences between 3/4 and 1 ton?

It does appear to be true for the Dodge. I have an '08 Dodge 2500. I went to a couple auto parts sites and checked a bunch of suspension and brake parts compared to a 3500. All were the same parts. I didn't find any parts that weren't used on both models.
Before we bought it, we test drove an identical 3500. It was an animal. If you need a 1 ton, fine, get one, but don't buy one for a daily driver. It's a miserable ride.

They are not different on the 2500 vs 3500 for the gen 3 dodge with the Cummins 5.9. Quite often dealers sell the 3500's for the same price or less too

This topic has been beaten to death on the Cummins forum. Folks on that site said the same was true with the fords.

The brakes btw are identical in every aspect on the gen 3

The Tundra is designed and assembled in Texas, and is second only to Ford with the most American parts. I think you should be telling guys in Chevys and Dodges to hunt elsewhere.
As far as the Tundra being a 1/2 ton truck, it is. It is not a 3/4 ton. For limited towing as the OP use, it would be better in my opinion to get any brand 1/2 ton.

Damn...

All my plans to show up and ask you to hunt just got blown to hell

The money still goes out of the country. That is, unless Japan is a now a part of the USA.

Toyota Corporate Office Headquarters
Toyota Motor Corporation
1, Toyota-cho
Toyota-Shi, ACH 471-8571 Japan

Mine was made in San Antonio.

Toyota is a publicly traded company. So the "money" goes to the stock holders world wide. Labor is paid in the US and so are the parts. Paper pushers are in Japan. Corporate offices are held by many US companies abroad to avoid taxes. Corporations are a big scam, in the US, in England, in Korea. It is a big world of thieves. Best you can hope for is parts and labor, and that is the real world. It is not 1946.

For that matter, Chrysler is owned by Fiat, located in London. My Dodge pickup was made in Mexico.

I have a 2014 Tundra, limited, 4x4, 5.7, tow option.
It had (when new) the highest tow rating of any 1/2 ton.
Smooth and quiet ride.
I pull a 26 ft TT with no problem.

BTW, made in Texas, engine made in Alabama.
It is an American truck, regardless what the haters say!

Thanks for all the responses guys. About what I thought I'd hear, but I'm glad to hear everyone's experience.

I bought my F-150 right after the auto industry bailouts, and only considered Ford just due to their turning down the gov't money. I've had really good luck with my F-150 all things considered. But I have never heard anyone who owns a Tundra say a bad thing about them.

As for the Tundras, is the TRD package worth it for extra protection and ability off the pavement? Most concerned about the skidplates (or lack of), but aftermarket are always options too.

In my opinion, no.

Go aftermarket on the skid plates, the TRD ones aren't very good.

They did so only to protect those executive golden parachutes and for no other reason. Patriotic intententions had jackscitt to do with it though many in the masses bought it hook, line and sinker.

But they do build a good truck.

I was in a very similar situation whereby I was choosing between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 like you. The only reason why I considered the 3/4 was for occasionally towing a lightweight trailer like you do. I opted for the 3/4 ton diesel as I had never owned one. For me, while I LOVED towing with the 3/4, having it as my daily driver kinda sucked. The ride quality difference between the two when commuting on solid ground and not towing is HUGE and heavily favors the 1/2 ton.

I have since sold the 3/4 and will stick to the 1/2, regardless of the make.

Bud Built for skid plates.

the Tundra only has a splash plate which sucks, it takes 15 extra minutes to change oil which is one of the things I dislike about the Toyota's.

for off road the diesel trucks really suck due to the rough ride and very heavy front end; I have one so I know what I'm talking about.

You would be wise to read this. While it had nothing to do with patriotism it had nothing to do with executive benefits either. It was about saving Ford. It's a great read and certainly opened my eyes about the auto industry. I'll certainly never touch a GM or Chrysler product again.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Icon-Mulally-Fight-Company/dp/030788606

My TRD skid plates suck. Big Toyota fan, but won't get the TRD package next time. Would buy standard SR5 and get an Old Man Emu suspension immediately. Then buy a Tundra Pro skidplate for $450. Love the two Tundras I have owned and love that they are made in Texas vs Mexico.

I don't get on here to often, but will give my 2 cents worth being I've owned 4 Tundras and a T100. Had a 1997 T100, 2001 Tundra, 2007 Tundra, 2010 Tundra, and now a 2015 Tundra. I've owned and driven all the others, and I've just had great luck with my American made, Texas, Tundras. They've all been bullet proof. Solid, smooth, quiet, powerful, and trouble free. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I say. Choosen the most reliable full sized pickup in America for the last 11 years. I can agree with that as I've had ZERO problems with all of them. I see MIVHNTR is still as negative of a person as always. Some things never change. And some talk about the 'jap' truck. Well, again, Made in America. Those folks fail to mentions the tens of thousands of Toyota workers that make a living, in the U.S., working for Toyota U.S.A. Feed their family, put clothes on them and a roof over their heads. To each their own, but I'm speaking from my experience from the trucks I've owned and driven in my life time. Everyone can like their own brand of vehicles, and I hope they all serve them well. I'm am just sharing my positive experiences with Toyota. BTW: My wife is on her 5th Camry with Zero problems with them too. FYI: The Camry just became the BEST selling car in America, AGAIN, for the 13th year in a row. Speaks for itself. Buy what you like, and like what you buy. Good luck to all.

Don't forget that Toyota is non-union.

RC, the non union thing may be the real problem for some

So what is an American made pickup?

Unions=democrats=communists.

Here's the latest article about Ford, the great patriotic company:

Ford more than doubles production in Mexico

Glad to see them build in Mexico. That might keep the unions out.

That's only half the picture. Yes, Ford moved several small car lines to Mexico, but they moved heavy duty F series trucks from Mexico to Ohio.

I'm in Mississippi and we've got Nissan and Toyota plants here, both non-union so that's proof that you don't have to go to Mexico to keep the unions out. Nissan and Toyota are providing jobs to Americans in my state while Ford is busy shipping jobs to Mexico. My neighbors are feeding their families and sending their kids to college because they have jobs in these plants while at the same time people like Walt are driving around in their mexican built Fords.

Next door in Alabama they're building Mercedes, Hyundai's and Hondas. Did Ford choose to open a plant there? Nope, they picked Mexico.

At least Ford shipping all the jobs to Mexico might keep some of the mexicans from coming here.

Couldn't disagree more, Pugs. PR is a wonderful thing. For some.

It was meant for the rabid union hating zealots. Sarcasm. They are as annoying as their counterparts I used to have to spend time with.

Well, did what I could to give you a place for more info than a sound bite.

When I buy another truck it will be an F-150.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-most-american-trucks-for-2015.html
Just an FYI

If you like buying a new truck every 100k, by all means ford is your truck.

I have a 2014 Tundra and a 2015 F-250.

I prefer the F-250 diesel over the Tundra gas.

F-250 : prefer diesel engine, short bed is 6 foot for tax write-off.

Tundra: better built, better looking, gas mileage sucks, towing sucks, long bed(over 6 foot) looks awful.

If Tundra would make a diesel with a 6 foot bed, I would be at the dealership.

If Toyota would make a Crew Max Tundra w/6' bed, My F-250 6.7L would be sitting on the used lot.

Forget about what truck to buy! Try to decide what uou will honestly do with a pickup. Buy the pickup that best meets your needs. Most times we are unhappy with a big purchase it is not the item at fault, rather, us buying he wrong thing.

I had a 3/4 ton Suburban once. Brakes and tires were more expensive. If I needed a heavy duty pickup truck why wouldn't I just buy a one ton?
The one ton trucks are very popular with the people around here.
Mostly teenagers buy the Toyota Tacoma around here.

I like my F250, it's an 08 with 6.4, I wasn't looking for a diesel but it was a good deal (recently purchased). It's my 3rd superduty, my other 2 were one tons.

I can't comment on the toyota because I've not owned one.

Fords have been very good for me though.

hiiiiiiii-yaaaaah!

ching chong phooey

(so sayeth the nip owner's manual in a toyota "truck")

My Toyota is a Tacoma, not a Tundra, but I think the same 'features' that give me fits would be shared, the dealership mechanics would be equally limited if you had a problem, and you'd be equally stuck if you're relying on them because it's a warranty issue.

If I had it to do again, I'd go back to Nissan for a small truck or Ford for a fullsized one.

Toyota owners are very loyal, so when **this** Toyota owner suggests you might oughta buy something else ... you'd be wise to pay attention.

Having owned 4x4's in Suburban, Yukon, Lariat, Explorer, Land Cruiser and Tundra, it amazes me how much better quality the Toyota vehicles are. My 2000 Tundra was built here but is noticeably higher quality than all my US-built trucks.

I just can't get over the not so stellar fuel mileage of The tundra it's a sharp looking truck though. my f250 gasser gets 14 mpg on the hey. So if I'm going to get 14 mpg I might as well get it with a 3/4 ton.

I have owned two Tacos, a 1997, and a 2013. I did not keep either even a year. I bought a new truck last month. I test drove the Taco again, but bought a Chevy Colorado.

The '13 Super Duty 6.7L diesel I traded in got 18 MPG regularly when not towing.

LOL, there is one in every crowd

Yeah, guys who have owned 23 brand new vehicles-so far. The underlying message-while a Taco is not a Tundra, Toyota trucks are largely overrated. Between the two go Ford if fit for the OP's purpose.

Overrated and American made. I have had so many issues with the Toyotas I have owned it is pathetic and i am guessing most toyota owners feel the same .

Over the course of four toyotas and about 600,000 miles I've had to replace one wheel bearing. The danged tires also keep wearing out and I have to keep putting gas in them! The oil doesn't last nearly long enough either.

POS!

Between my brother and I we have/had 8 of them and he had to replace a wheel bearing on his 2003 and I had to replace the rear bearing on my 2009. They are a POS

One thing I will say: Toyota worshipers are loyal to a fault. They remind me of the GM guys in the late '70's who stuck by GM even when the tops of their trunks were rusting off in two years.

My '97 Taco, an extended cab V6 rode like a brick. Had a heck of a time even getting it to start. My wife hated it so bad, we had a new 2.0L Cavalier the same year. She insisted we take the Cavalier on a 1,500 mile round trip.

By 2013, I thought surely they improved it, but they did not. I wanted a smaller truck, Ford had just quit making the Ranger in '12, Dodge (not a fan), quit making the Dakota, and Chevy quit making the Colorado/Canyon. So what made Toyota so great? NO competition, they won by default.

They took the 4.0L and downsized it to 3.5. There was the smog pump noise, the six hour noise, no locking tailgate, and a child-like nav system. It has a poly bed with a flawed design so when a cap is installed it will leak. They are still reliable, but the tired old engine has no performance. Ironically, it only got 18 MPG, and I had to use Premium fuel to get it. Like the rusty trunk GM owners of the '70's, the supporters still cheer them on.

Ford F150 owns the 1/4 ton truck market. (had 3 of them from 2008-2013), and though the Tundra is a reliable truck, it would have to improve a lot to over take the Ford. Toyota cannot even compete in the heavy duty diesel truck market. They have nothing to offer to go up against the Power Stroke diesel when serious towing capacity is required.

Before I bought my 2016 Colorado, I drove a shiny orange Taco. The lack of competition in the sector was apparent. The tired 3.5 could barely get up to speed. The cheerleaders say it's a truck not a race car. That's for sure. If you buy one, you better like struggling to get going in traffic. My wife liked the look and color of it so much, I was STILL going to buy it, and spend 5,000-7,000 to install the super charger that was available in '13, but they discontinued it.

The small Toyotas were great utility trucks in the early to late '80's. Those are still sought after as great hunting/farm trucks. The Tundra which is obviously in a different class, is no F-150. The Taco has languished into mediocrity due to lack of competition. If/when they raise the bar, I'll look at them again. Until then, like the rusty GM's, their time has passed.

In October of '99 I bought a 2000 model V_6 Tacoma. In November of 2011 I had to replace the battery. POS.

Yes they are reliable and easy to resell thanks to the hype. Pretty sure the battery is not made by Toyota and is considered a throw away item. That probably explains why you finally put a battery in your almost 20 year old car.

Everything I have ever learned is from the internet. Therefore I only own the best most super powered items money can buy. Supercharged 3/4 ton Toyotas and 454 Casull Glocks, nuff said.

I bought a Tundra about 5 months ago, could have bought an F-150 but based upon past experiences with Ford and Toyota it was a no-brainer to choose the Tundra.

It's true it's no F-150, that's precisely why I bought it.

Glad you like it:

http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2015-ford-f-150-vs-2015-toyota-tundra-which-is-better-242086

Never drove one myself. My Toyota experience kept me away. Hope you got the 5.7. The mileage may not be great, but the performance should be. Another factor to me-the availability of nearby service. Ford and Chevy parts and service are nearby anywhere in the country. We have a Toyota dealer 28 miles away, but it does not have a good reputation. Other than that, the nearest dealer for me is 75 miles away.

It's got the 5.7. Dealer service never entered my mind since I've never needed it with any toyota I've had. There is a toyota dealer the same distance as the local ford dealer should I ever want it. The only parts I've ever bought from a toyota dealer have been oil filters.

As far as the article, like all car mags it compares things that don't matter at all to me. The only plus I'll give the Ford is the EPA fuel mileage, but real world reports are that the F-150 doesn't get appreciably better than the Tundra. Reliability is 90% of what I choose a vehicle upon and the toyota is light years ahead of the ford in that respect. I'm sure the tundra (or F-150) both pull OK but I have an old dodge diesel that does all my pulling duties so I don't care about that. The interior is plenty nice and has more features than I really want, I don't care at all whether or not it's got wi-fi in the truck.

Really it all boils down to reliability for me, as the miles get put on Fords habitually break a lot more than toyotas. I'm a high mileage driver. If I traded before the warranty was up like a lot of people I'd be okay with driving a ford, but I don't and need something that'll hold up.

Silverado 1500 is unreliable at 75K Ford isn't a whole lot better. A Tundra would last me 3x as long. Best that Chevy and Ford dealers are closeby.

+1

I have little experience with vehicles having 100's of thousands of miles. I've only kept two vehicles long enough to replace the original tires in the last 20 years. The '13 Ford F250 6.7L Power Stroke only had 28,000 miles on it. Great truck, just too much for my old legs to climb into. The 2003 F350 Crew Cab long bed with the 6.0 Power Stroke I had-now that was a POS. Ford jobbed out the engine and it was not built to spec.
I've owned a lot of vehicles. ALL have had good times and bad, good and bad QC and good and bad models, including foreign made ones (sticking self accelerating gas pedals, Takata air bags, faked diesel emissions) You pay your money and take your chances. Part of living with the new "global economy."

I'm starting to shop to get rid of my Toyota.

The "stability control" system is engaging at inappropriate times. I had all the work done the dealership thought might fix it 2 weeks ago.

Saturday on the way home coming down the freeway it engaged again locking up the brakes hard without my foot on the brake pedal 3 times in about 3 seconds. It was a rodeo .. that's no exaggeration. I think the guy in the lane next to me crapped himself. I might have as well but I was too busy.

The dealership says there's nothing left to try. I'm on my own. They said I just have to deal with it.

I don't know what the replacement will be. It won't be a Toyota. If they can't fix this one they don't get to sell me a new one.

Tom

Holy [bleep] that sounds scary! My Honda has a button to turn of the stability control but I guess Toyota does not?

Did they replace the ABS ECU and all the ABS wheel sensors?

My 2012 Tundra does have a switch to engage or disengage the stability control. I can only assume that his doesn't work for some reason.

It does ... sort of.

Once the vehicle is moving, the button must be held down else it re-engages. If you pull over / stop, then hold the button down for 3 seconds, it will turn the system off, however, it resets any time the engine is started and when you do, you're looking at a dashboard full of amber lights in your face.

It's a pain in the ass, probably somewhat ok in four wheeling situations but decidedly unhandy on pavement at highway to freeway speeds where the need arises. That's actually when it would potentially be useful if it were working properly.

A hacked work-around is not the same as working right.

Tom

I have a 2011 tundra with the OME suspension. I like the truck but wouldn't buy another one. My gas tank is 25 gallons and I get about 12.5 around town. Toyotas idea of a rear locking diff is a joke. The rear diff is open but the brakes are applied to the spinning wheel in the hope that the other one will gain traction. All that does is twist the axle shift and cause other problems. In a muddy or snowy field it is very noticeable.

From what the OP is describing I would look at an F150 with a 2.7 or a Ram with 3.0 ecodiesel.

That's not exactly right. The brake-based system is a limited slip, not a locker. Toyota offers an e-locker on some models of both Tundra and Tacoma which is exactly that, a locking differential.

Nissan does the same. Prior to my Taco I drove a Frontier which had brake-based limited slips and the e-locker.

Their so-called limited slips are indeed pretty pathetic with both brands. The e-lockers for both work very well. I think the brake-based systems are a poor design. If they're going to the trouble of doing limited slips they should do them right ... differential-based. The best combination setup of a locker which is a limited slip when the locker is not engaged is the Detroit E-locker. What they're trying to do, though, is use the brake-based limited slip as part of their stability control systems .. the piece that is screwing up badly for me. A differential-based limited slip can't be used in that manner.

I'd really like to find a new 4WD truck with no stability control and no ABS. For gravel, ABS is a real liability. That's one place I'll give Toyota some credit, the ABS is not as ill-behaved on gravel as Nissan's was, at least in my sample of one truck of each brand.

As I look farther into my problem, a few people have posted what seems to be a way to jumper around the yaw sensor which is the source of my problem. I have to find better diagrams and see what I can do. It's one last thing to do before trading the Taco in.

Tom

Sounds like a car dealer talking...

To the OP. Decide if you need a 3/4 or 1/2 ton. For a 3/4, go diesel. You see a lot of them so equipped and the resale is much better than gas, and for a reason.

If you don't pull trailers or really need a 3/4, go 1/2 ton. They ride smoother and burn less gas.

I can't get in the Tundra/F-150 argument, I'm a Z-71 guy; I buy'em new, keep'em a LONG time, like the way they handle and ride.

DF

Don't confuse traction control with limited slip. All the brands have some form of traction control using the brakes to maintain traction on slick roads. It's not the same as limited slip. LS is in the differential. TC is designed for highway use while LS is for offroad.