Wool bibs + jacket advice - 24hourcampfire

I have been looking at non-camo wool jackets and bib overalls for elk hunting on horseback in temps ranging from -10 to 30 degrees.

Is basic, heavy-weight wool the way to go or should I consider something with a waterproof membrane? I see that Cabelas offers a wool bib and parka with their Dry-Plus lining which supposedly makes them waterproof.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

With temps -10 to 30 degrees, even with wet snow and possible rain, regular wool clothing is sufficient as far as I'm concerned. I treat my wool outerwear with anhydrous lanolin which makes its very water repellant. Check out Bemidji Woolen Mills for wool pants and bibs, and nothing much can beat a Filson Double Mackinaw in a wool coat. You could check out the clone of the Filson Double Mackinaw from Cabela's on sale right now. I have a 30 oz. 100% wool Voyageurs Jac Coat from Bemidji I really love. I much prefer the 30 oz. 100% wool pants to the bibs. I also got a brand new Filson Double Mackinaw on eBay for $200.

Let me know if you want to know the process for waterproofing wool with anhydrous lanolin.

Thanks Jackfish. The Cabelas jacket you linked to looks like a good value and a nice jacket.

Just curious, why do you like the pants vs the bibs? I would definitely like to know how you treat your wool garments.

I prefer pants to bibs as they permit easier changing of layers and adhere to the body as well as bibs with good suspenders.

On how to waterproof woolens from Horace Kephart in 1917, Camping and Woodcraft,

"Simply make a solution of anhydrous lanolin in benzine (petroleum ether, not benzene!), soak the garment in it about three minutes, wring out gently, stretch to shape, and hang up to dry, shifting position of garment frequently, until nearly dry, so that the lanolin will be evenly distributed. This process is very cheap, and old clothing can be treated by it as well as new, without injuring buttons or anything else.

Cloth so treated permits the ready evaporation of sweat, and so may be worn without ill effects, no matter what the weather may be. In fact the perspiration escapes more freely than from plain woolen cloth, because the moisture cannot pentrate the fibers and swell them - the interstices are left open for air to pass through. And yet woolens impregnated with lanolin shed rain better than cloth treated by any other chemical processes. The goods are not changed in weight, color or odor. Instead of being weakened, they are made stronger. The waterproofing is permanent...

In buying, specify anhydrous (water-free) lanolin. Cloth treated with lanolin absorbs little moisture because water cannot pentrate the fiber and is repelled from the interspaces.

The strength of the solution to be used depends upon climate. For a hot, rainy climate use four ounces of lanolin to a gallon (U.S.) of benzine; for average conditions in the temperate zone, three ounces to the gallon; for cold climate, or winter use exclusively, two ounces to the gallon, as cold has a tendency to stiffen cloth that has been steeped in a strong solution...

If trouble is experienced in making a solution of lanolin, dissolve it first in a little chloroform, then pour it into the benzine."

I have had nothing but good experiences waterproofing woolens this way but do reserve it for outerwear only as some people are skin sensitive to lanolin. Don't know if I am or not but I only use it on garments that will primarily be exposed to the elements.

Not an expert, but if your were refering to the Outfitter Wool series of camo wool in Cabelas, I would not rate it nearly to those temps. I am unsure if the Parka is a different weight than the jacket, but I purchased the jacket previously. It's now returned. The Mack and the other wool series may be a better choice for your intentions.

wool is great and warm. just remember when it gets wet it gets heavy. for riding you can't go wrong, but if you plan on getting off and chasing game on foot for any distance you might want something synthetic. the best luck with wool i've had is with cabela's wind shear. it is practically wind proof and very warm and light. if it's really cold and wet i'd rather have bibs. if things heat up or your activity level goes up you can strip to just the bibs and vest. don't bother with just a wool jacket, get the parka. for the best combo wear a wind shear sweater under the parka with the bibs and or a vest. if it goes below -15 you better think about other options.

Bibs can be a real hassle when nature calls. You have to strip off everything just to take a crap in the woods. Much easier to just undo your belt.

With any decent wieght wool pants you'd have suspenders on anyway so it's just as much of a PIA to drop the chalupa.

I don't use suspenders on my woolies. I have owned quite a few brands over the years (King of the Mt, Weatherby, Woolrich etc) and I think my favorite pair of pants are the plain old green Codets from Cabelas. I think they are around $50. I think the other big name brands are a waste of money. I am not sure why anyone would pay $350 for a pair of wool pants.

I have a couple of pairs of bibs and find them physically limiting, for full body movement. I much prefer regular wool pants, with a wool shirt tucked in. I too have a Filson double cruiser.
I'm a wool fan.

Don

The Filson double mac is an excellent choice. I have that and the Filson bib wool pants, you never get cold. I prefer the bibs style. Just preference.

The woolrich wool sets are another choice. My sons use the coats and insulated bib coveralls that are waterproof.

The columbia wool is OK, not as warm and soaks up water, then it gets an odor.

I hunted elk on horseback this past Saturday and the conditions made me think I want to try the Cabelas wool bibs & parka with the Dry-Plus layer to keep the water out.

It was 5 degrees with a little breeze and had snowed 3-5 inches the day before so the trees were heavy with snow. Riding through the timber resulted in snow falling from limbs and piling up on my shoulders and arms all day. Leather chaps kept the snow off of my legs.

Still no elk though...

I was in Stuttgart Arkansas this past weekend at Mack's. They had a huge tent sale and on of the discounted items was a nice wool Jacket. i tried it on and after only about 10 seconds, I couldn't stand the feel of it. ITCH, ITCH, ITCH... I always heard this but WOW, was it true. Are many of the Jackets lined or is it assumed that you will have full length sleeves on under the jacket and full underwear under the pants?

Is this common or am I the only one that gets that ITCHY feeling from wool???

I wear long sleeves and long johns under my wool. If it isn't cold enough to need a bottom layer, it isn't cold enough for me to use my woolies.

It doesn't make me itch.

I wear mostly German, French, or Swedish army surplus wool pants. I wear suspenders with the heavier ones but not with the French woolies. I don't like the belt digging into my relatively bony hips from the weight of the pants and the stuff I put in the cargo pockets on the legs.

I bought some of the Weatherby stuff because it's camo but I've yet to find weather cold enough to bow hunt in them so they haven't been field tested.

I had the Cabelas Outfitter bibs and ruined them in two days of hunting. They completely separated at the waist 2/3 through day two. That was a chilly walk back to camp.

I think I might be sticking to the army surplus stuff and finding a way to use fabric paint to break up the solid color a bit.

So far, I've always hunted in the army surplus pants. Last week, I came off the mountain and it was 6 below, and I wasn't cold. That was without long johns. I have a heavy wool Codet coat, but it is far to heavy and stiff to hump mountains in.

That said, I just ordered some of the Cabela's light wool washable pants, as I ripped the army surplus ones. We'll see if they are light enough. FWIW, Dutch.

I like the wool coat, but found the pants pass thru moisture to my long johns when I sit for a while in the snow. I cant tell you how many times I've ridden home in a blizzard with an inch of snow sticking to the outside of my wool coat, while perfectly dry and warm inside. I like the Cabelas dry plus pants in the saddle cloth jeans cut, personally. Whatever works. You'll figure it out.

I find that pure wool pants (currently using Columbia's camo heavyweight) tend to pass water through to my longjohns when I sit on a spot in the snow for a while. Much prefer Cabela's saddle cloth Dry Plus pants for breathable water proof wear. I like a single layer wool cruiser for the lighter weight and abillity to layer with down or fleece under it to suit conditions. I cant tell you how many years I have ridden back to camp in a blizzard with an inch of snow sticking to my old EMS red wool coat while warm and dry inside. I recently had to buy a new Woolrich wool cruiser because I outgrew the EMS. Anybody know a good diet? Some guys like the goretex and dry plus for the coats, but I like the breathability of single layer wool. FWIW. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Bibs can be a real hassle when nature calls. You have to strip off everything just to take a crap in the woods. Much easier to just undo your belt.

+1 on #2 ......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.......DJ

The Filson Wool hunting clothing is superb, tough hunting clothing. I may have to try Jackfish's method with the Lanolin, it sounds very interesting.

If you want wool and waterproof another way to go though expensive and hard to find is with Rascher clothing from Germany:

http://rascher.de/index_english.html

They make a couple different Loden coats that have thinsulite insulation and a waterproof drop liner that is quieter than almost any others. Listen to the rustle of a wool coat with a drop liner and you'll see what I mean, I had a Laksen tweed jacket that you could hear across the room!.
I wore a Rasher long coat (AnsitzMantel) in -20deg and was still warm as toast. The Rascher stuff if great if you can find and afford it! Frankonia Jagd often marks it way down after New Years.................DJ

I wear my filson wool bibs all of the time, even in ga. I like the bibs as they are easier to layer as the waist if not tight. I have the filson pants too but I can not tuck a heavy shirt into them so I dont wear them as often. the bibs still stay up if you layer down but you can really stuff them with a heavy shirt or two as well as my filson vest. I never wash them either, just let the blood or whater dry and then brush them off. Had a filso "single weight" cruiser on my Christmas list but will wait until next fall as other priorities have come up.

FWIW.....I'm a mountain hiker and burn calories like dry tinder burns. Been there with the Filson stuff and I like it but for me it's a bit heavy. I've never been cold with high tech Patagonia thick gear and a wind breaker that's water proof. Same for pants. Still I like the double Mackinaw for non strenuous camp/around town travelling. Something about using the old time gear is fun but I'll go with the lightest/warmest clothing any day over wool.

Will say that I have a thick tightly knitted sweater that's pricey as all get out made from Alpaca that's soft, warm, and like better than cashmere. Wonderful stuff.

I use my Columbia Gallatin/Monarch Wool as a go to gear during the winter up here when its not really cold(-20 and above), a buddy of mine got the Weatherby wool this past fall and used it for duck hunting to -20 and said it was awesome. Its got a liner in it thats almost like windhsear or windstopper making it that much warmer. Its not cheap but what is that works well?

an area where filson, and most wool lacks, is in wind protection. those brands with a wind liner are ideal but the liner does impact some of the wools water vapor management capabilities.

Got a lot of wool - the camo stuff is all from King of the Mountain or Sleeping Indian in Jackson. Most is double kneed & at the elbows. The coats are all double shouldered and some have windproof linings.

The non-camo stuff is mostly Filson.

All of it is top drawer and none is new......wears well.

Wool is never a bad choice and nothing competes for silence.

MM

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> You guys referring to a wind breaker liner inside ? I've never heard of that. Maybe a really dumb question I know but I've always had a wind breaker outside and the wool-patagonia inside. I've yet to wear my Filson double with a wind breaker outside....I just use my Patagonia gear with the windbreaker that has zippers in the arm pits to vent if it's windy.

IC2,

I'm referring to a wind liner sewn inside; mostly done on jackets or coats.

Available from Sleeping Indian Designs, Jackson, WY.

MM

I checked them out and I wish them well but the guidas are more than a bit above the competition's. You simply have to pay for quality but how much ? I bought my wife the best Patagonia underwear tops and bottoms yesterday and it was more than outlandish $$$. She's coming out of 6 months of chemo and is cold continuely. I'm told fleece is the generic name for 100% synthetic 'brand' name material/clothing like what I got her. I saw a Patagonia's outer jacket make from thicker material than the underwear and it was half the $$$. Now go figure that one. Maybe all this stuff has some hidden weave to it but I saw no difference. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Patagonia's best underwear is less than half the thickness of this Patagonia jacket I'm referring to. The big difference in Patagonia's mid warmth underwear 'appeared' to be the 'best' cold weather underwear was the addition of a zip up neck collar. And IMO, that is extremely important to lock in the body's heat....same for elastic cuffs and waistband.

And that's why I was confounded by a wind liner inside a jacket that was referred to here. Lock in the body heat and keep out the wind steeling comfort with an outside wind breaker.

If I don't have long john's on hunting , which is a lot of the time in the winter, I take a hankerchief tied around my neck 'cowboy style' and find a huge difference in staying warm. Hunting chukars means climbing steep tough rocky mountains much of the time and I, even when it's cold, will just wear a tee shirt and a light synthetic shirt with a hankerchief around my neck. If I get too warm the first thing coming off is the neck sealing hankerchief. My hat has already been put in my bird vest(grin). The wind plays a huge role in staying warm or being cold. It can be in the 30s and I'm only in a tee shirt IF there's no wind blowing but I'm burning up calories like a kid eating candy on Halloween night !

Wool is great for me if it's not up next to my bare skin but the big drawback is that you have to have it drycleaned. The synthetics are soft and you just toss them in the washer, ready for another day.

I might add that the Alpaca 'wool' with a tight weave is wonderfully soft like cashmere and just fantastic in keeping you warm and it doesn't 'scratch'....but then it's off to the dry cleaners ! And talk about being pricey !!!! But I can't say Alpaca isn't worth the $$$$. It's just a horribley big pill to swallow and less expensive gear is out there.

Just my two cents worth. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I haven't found a wool garment yet that could not be either machine washed or hand washed and hung dry. For wool outdoor gear dry cleaning is probably unnecessary.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Warm/hot water is necessary to wash clean. I mean who takes a cold shower???? Try washing wool in warm/hot water and it'll shrink like your pud in a cold lake....at least that's what happens in my world <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Well, I don't know what's in your water but wherever I've lived, wool shrinks when in warm/hot water. It shrinks like your pud when you jump in a cold lake ! Sure you can try Woolite and hand wash but to 'clean' a garment of dirt, sweat, blood, etc., you need at least warm water. It only took me one time to learn that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You don't need warm water. Cold water with the appropriate detergent (who uses Woolite?) is satisfactory to clean any wool garment. While some may need hand washing, most are just fine with a machine delicate cycle. I've been doing it for 30 years and still wearing stuff that old cleaned such. And I haven't shrunk over that time I guarantee.

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You don't need warm water. Cold water with the appropriate detergent (who uses Woolite?) is satisfactory to clean any wool garment. While some may need hand washing, most are just fine with a machine delicate cycle. I've been doing it for 30 years and still wearing stuff that old cleaned such. And I haven't shrunk over that time I guarantee.

+1

Woolite and cold H2O.

Don

Well, ya learn from the boys that have been there and done that. I'll accept your thoughts and take a try. Never too late to learn. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Try Atsko Sport-Wash.

I've used Atsko's sport wash for hand washing bloody/nasty wool stuff for years. The only thing that ever shrunk was a sweater I put in the dryer - lucky I had a skinny girlfriend at the time......................DJ

Jackfish,

Where do you buy your anhydrous lanolin and benzine from?

Casey

I got the anhydrous lanolin from Taoherb. I get the benzine (ligroine or petroleum ether) from my local university chemical supply store. A 4 liter bottle should be about $35.

Jackfish, Doesn't Benzine leave a bit of an oder? Or is it just me getting Bezine and Benzin (the german word for gasoline) confused................DJ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzine

It is a solvent. That is why it is used to make a solution of anhydrous lanolin. But it evaporates leaving little solvent residue. A treated garment smells like wool.

Your link explained it. Bezene is the "gasoline" equivelant aromatic hydrocarbon not Benzine.
Thanks for the idea I plan to try it out................DJ

Can anyone else give reviews for the following?

Bemidji North Shore DOuble Front/Back
LL Bean Cruiser
Weatherby Wool Parka
Cabela's Woodsman Jacket

I'd like to know how these stack up to the benchmark for wool jackets which is probably the Filson Double Mac.

I tried on the Bemidji North Shore Double Back/Front jacket when I bought my Bemidji Voyageurs Jac Coat. The former is not a double in the sleeves like the Filson Double Mackinaw. I was impressed by the latter's 30 oz. 100% virgin wool fabric.

I looked at the Cabelas Woodsman Coat and thought it was pretty good for what is now $130 on sale. The fabric is a little heavier than the Filson but it doesn't seem to be as tightly woven.

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I tried on the Bemidji North Shore Double Back/Front jacket when I bought my Bemidji Voyageurs Jac Coat. The former is not a double in the sleeves like the Filson Double Mackinaw. I was impressed by the latter's 30 oz. 100% virgin wool fabric.

I looked at the Cabelas Woodsman Coat and thought it was pretty good for what is now $130 on sale. The fabric is a little heavier than the Filson but it doesn't seem to be as tightly woven.

Jackfish, the Bemidji North Shore doesn't have the double sleeves, but isn't it basically made out of the same thickness material as the Voyageur's coat except double clothe both front and back? I thought both jackets used 30oz material except that the blaze orange is 100% wool and the colored stuff is 85%. I could be wrong though.

Jackfish, the Bemidji North Shore doesn't have the double sleeves, but isn't it basically made out of the same thickness material as the Voyageur's coat except double clothe both front and back? I thought both jackets used 30oz material except that the blaze orange is 100% wool and the colored stuff is 85%. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: Oh, and is the Voyageur fabric as thick and dense as one of the two layers in the Filson double mac you have.

I thought the North Shore I looked at had 28 oz. 85% wool 15% nylon. I've been told since then that the fabric for that jacket is 28 to 30 oz. The Voyageurs I have is 30 oz. 100% virgin wool. The single layer of 30 oz wool in the Voyageurs does not compare to the double layer of 24 oz. wool in the Filson Double Mackinaw. However, both the North Shore and the Voyageurs are great garments. Just depends on what you are going to use it for. I use the Voyageurs for different conditions than I use my Filson Double Mackinaw. I also have a Woolrich 6390, which is like a double mackinaw (double cape and sleeves), I purchased from Sierra Trading Post a couple of years ago for $100.

If you hang your woolens outside for a day or two in the weather I find that it is almost as good as a dry cleaning. A day in the rain followed by a day in the sun and the wool is good to go. I use the Filson stuff. Its great gear but I do find the Double Mackinaw a bit to much most days

regards
Dan