hey guys. wondering what type of sleeping bag I'll need for my late season muledeer hunt!! I'll be in a wall tent. nov 1-18 could be lots of snow.

what degree bag? Any suggestions on type and or brand?

Thanks

Wall tents are very nice but they can still get very cold if the fire in the stove goes out.

I'd get one that is very warm (-15 degrees minimum) as I find the rating always seem to be very optimistic. I'd also take a light bag or blankets in case the weather is warm.

I much prefer a large rectangular bag over a mummy- the bag I use when "vehicle" camping is an old Cabelas 15 degree with Qualofil. I don't doubt but what I have spent over 500 nights in it. I have to supplement it with a wool blanket now if it is colder than about 25. If you are in a wall tent with a heater, you should be able to regulate the heat so that a bag such as this will work fine. If you are looking to buy one, I think they have one called the Elk hunter which can be had to minus 20 or so. If it is too hot, I just unzip mine and let the draft in and regulate with a blanket.

A big roomy bag with synthetic fill is the best bet.

I like tent camping and even though we have an Artic Fox trailer we still do quite a bit of it.

I have two Big Agnes Park Series bags, a -20 degree and a +20 degree which my wife uses at times in the summer and I intended to use when it was very cold. She doesn't go elk hunting with me.

I found the -20 pretty warm for most camping so I bought a +20.

Home for elk and deer is a 12x14 wall tent. Wood stove morning and evening. Get up and stoke it if you want, otherwise we use a Mr Heater to warm the tent enough to get up and get one started in the morning.

We elk hunt at about 4,000 feet in the Wallowa Mountains and have had seven or so inches of snow three different seasons since I got the bags. I have as yet to use the heavier bag. I do use a poncho liner inside the bag when it is cold. I have had two of my cold sleeping friends use the heavier bag and they loved it.

If I was going to do it over I would have bought a zero degree bag and called it good.

FWIW we just bought two sets of bags for two of our married kids. The gals got zero degree bags and the guys got 20 degree bags.

Try Sportsmans Warehouse or Campsaver.

+1. And a cot with a thick pad to match. Cabelas sells both. A zero degree bag should be OK, just bring a lighter bag or a blanket along to put over it if it's colder than that.

Rating a sleeping bag is a rather dubious affair in my experience and I also find that the rating of a bag or the onres I've had anyway has been rather optmistic; either that or I have a much more tender body than most.

When hunting the mountains in late fall or winter with snow and calling a canvas wall tent home, I've finally found comfort with a high quality, down bag "rated" to -40. My feeling is if "over-bagged" you can always unzip or throw a leg out for air conditioning. However, if "underbagged", there is little you can do but wear as much as possible and then shiver the night away. I've hunted with 16" of snow on the ground and -20 degrees which is possible about anywhere in the mountain west during the fall or early winter.

If packing in with vehicle or horses, weight is seldom an issue so a heavy, syn bag is fine as long as it's warm enough and you can "cocoon" with two lighter bags also; it works. But remember the big rectangular bags with a large volume are harder to stay warmer in also.

Bottom line, as with boots and optics, this is not a place or time to skimp on quality as you'll spend a third of your time in it and if it's not restful neither will your hunt be enjoyable or maybe productive.

There are many good brands and for conditions like you describe - cold and dry - I'd go with a high quality down which is not inexpensive. And, as mentioned, go for a "highly rated" (for low temps) bag. And then in warmer conditions, I take this same bag open the zipper and bivalve the thing over me or use it as a large fluffy comforter. You can alo get water-proof jackets or coverings for a down bag use in wetter conditions the one big disadvantage to down being you must not get it wet. If that's possibility a syn bag is probably better and there are good ones in that category too but they are rarely as light or compressible if that's important as a good down bag.

By the way it's hard to regulate the heat in a wall tent so that it's the same comfy temp at 4 a.m. as it was when you turned in at 10 p.m. And no one wants to get up and start the fire at 4 a.m. so prepare for the coldest conditions you could possibly experience.

A cot is a very good addition but especially an air-cell/foam insulating mattress which come in varying weights and sizes.

Gdv

Buy the lowest temp rated bag you can in a rectangular bag. Get a fleece liner for it and a canvas cowboy type bed roll cover. Then get a good quality air bed. Place a heavy blanket bewteen the air bed and your bag. Every morning roll back your bag to let the body moisture dry out of the haavy blanket.
A wall tent should be sized to give you a comfortable camp and an extra comfortable bed. The bed is one thing you don't want to skimp on. YOu can always fold back the bag if it is too warm, but it sure is hard to fix if it isn't warm enough. This is one area where " Good enough" just isn't

a wiggys wide/long, a cabelas big cot and a thermarest ridgerest in between. lots of room, not a lot of weight or bulk, a lifetime guarentee, you will have plenty of room and never be cold and you can be asleep in no time.

do it right once, it is cheaper in the long run.

wiggy's guarentees against filler going flat, zipper and seam failure.....that just about covers everything I have ever screwed up, and with #10 zippers you aint gonna bust one.....wish I could say that about my north face bag.

I rarely go through a night but what I don't get up at least once. I drink a lot of water in the evenings as I tend to get cramps hiking and sweating the next day if I don't. When I get up for the nature call, I throw another log in the wood stove. Properly stoked, a stove will last 5-6 hours. It will still take the chill off during the night. During last year's elk hunt one of us would get up 20 minutes early and start the propane portable heater. Then when we got up to get dressed, it was 50-60 degrees inside and easy to dress and grab some grub.

If you are camping in a wall tent, your bag won't need to be as "high quality" as if you were on an expedition. A good Coleman bag (I think they have one called the Elk Hunter as well) will last you for many years. I really like the flannel lining. The reason the high end bags don't have these features is that they are bulky and heavy.

I won't argue that down isn't the best insulator but it has two big drawbacks for this type of use: first, it is unnecessarily expensive for a dry environment and second, it requires special care (removed from stuff sack, stored hanging up etc)

It is true that a big rectangular bag is hard to keep warm but that is why you fudge just a little on the rating to get the room to move around. I bought a Big Cot and with a 3" foam pad on top, I can sleep pretty dang good.

Another suggestion is that I take sleeping pills and the first couple of nights, I will take one to help me sleep as it is hard to get used to a new bed sometimes.

Along with the bag good insulation is needed. I have a 4 inch foam pad on top of my cot it works really well. I would make sure you have a good foam pad as well and I would leave the air matress at home...

Since I can drive to my campsite and have lots of cargo space, I load a twin matress. With plywood flooring in the tent, a fitted sheet and a nice soft pillow all I need are a couple of medium weight sleeping bags unzipped and tossed on the matress.
I sleep a well and as warm in camp as I do at home.
Then I have a good breakfast and go out looking for something to kill.

I concur heartily.

My first year, I took my Marmot down/goretex mummy bag and a thermarest. That is a mountaineering-level, very high-quality bag and was the wrong choice. I was warm, plenty warm, but it's far from ideal. It's just not that comfortable and you'll be TIRED. Mummy bags are too restrictive to be comfortable on a night-after-night basis.

The way to go, in my opinion, is as follows. Get an oversize cot from REI or Cabelas or whomever. Get a thick thermarest, like their car-camping version. Get one of those $10 dimple-foam mattress pads. Get the ginormous Coleman sleeping bag that's flannel-lined, weighs about 30 lbs, and is relatively cheap. They are rated to -20F or something like that.

Now THAT is a bed that you can come back to camp and be truly comfortable in!

-jeff

The boys and I always go for a couple of day for the opener at the end of a road and with a 16x20 wall tent.

We've got a hearty bunch of snorers so for years I've always taken a smallish 3 man tent for me to sleep in. Trust me you want me sleeping well or else my evil twin "Mark Dark" comes to camp...grins

I use a good ground pad and then I have an old mummy bag that I put inside a fairly inexpensive rectangular bag and over all of that I have a bag my buds call the "burrito bag". It is a big canvas cover that has some nifty snaps on it. Once down in this I sleep real comfy and never a worry and or a care.

More than a few nights the boyz in the wall tent get a bit chilly however.

We also take a big kerosene stove that we can sit in the middle of the floor and let run all night if things get really western.

Make it your best day!

Dober

I forgot I've got one of those white, canvas "burrito" bags too and the last trip to Wyo it was warm and I layed in my good bag with it open and the whole works in the canvas bag. Mine closes with velcro and I can't remember where I got it now but it gives another layer, keeps your main bag clean, and adds a little versatility depending on temps.
Obviously, it's not a back pack item however.

George

Is this similiar to the canvas bedrolls that you can get in some saddle shops or from western horseman magazine?

Strayperro-that be the one, it is an awesome thing to own and I wouldn't be without it. It really helps to regulate temp for me.

Dober

I was on an outfitted trip back in the 70's and one of the guides was a working ranch cowboy. He was telling me he slept outdoors practically year around. He had a coat of scotch guard on the canvas and a cover that came up over his head when it was raining.

It evidently is the cat's meow because he was sleeping on the ground outside the tents and it was near zero at nights. All he had inside it were two wool blankets.

Yepper the "burrito" is a wonder bag for sure. I've slept in some very interesting weather in mine.

Dober

I do the same thing Mark. Due to the snoring and the temperature fluctuating from 0-90 degrees(the same guy man's the stove every year) I started bringing my own two man tent to sleep in and have been sleeping better and more comfortably since.

You don't say where the hunt is, but if you prepare for the coldest conditions and don't get 'em, you're still able to hunt...I'm going to to Gallatin range in November for elk, and the outfitter recommends at least a -20 bag, and says -40 is better. I could buy one, but I'd probably never use it again, so I got on the Wiggy's site (wiggys.com) and bought a 35 degree rectangular big enough to fit my wife's 0 degree rectangular inside. It weighs the same as the -40 bag the outfitter recommended, but I have much more flexibility in comfort range. BTW, I plan to fill the "extra" space down by the foot of the bag with my spare batteries, camera, etc. to keep them from freezing overnight if the stove goes out. I'll wrap them in spare fleece gear to "bulk up" the bottom of the bag, meaning less free air I have to heat up. Outfitter provides a cot and a Thermarest type pad. And you didn't ask, but I'm bringing an old Nalgene bottle so I don't have to leave the tent to pee at night. The definition of middle age in men is when your bladder shrinks and your prostate grows until they are both the same size...Fonman

Yeah it big time sux to get into some good sleep only to have to get out of the old Burrito bag to wiz! Let alone multiple times...grins

Who you hunting with in the Gallatin, I may just know them.

Dober

One of very few good reasons to sip whiskey....
Beer bladder sucks when it's cold out....grin

I get back to camp and really suck down the H20, thats what gets me, that and being 48.

You'll see what I mean in about 30 years or so, you started shaving yet? grins

Dober

Just my balls.........hehe
(GF's from CA.....go figure)

You mean they already dropped......grins

Dober

Your's haven't???????


LOL!

who said I had em.........grins

Dober

Grinnin'...
This poor thread sure went downhill in a hurry.

Seems to happen when us Bozo peeps get into the fray......grins

Dober

Breakfast at the Western some morn?

Sounds good Mark. Weekends work fine for me.
Sam

This is freakin me out! I thought mark was a man? And sam's a porn star that shaves his balls? Am I at the right site?

Sadly enough, yes......grin

We are a sorry bunch, we need some serious white soon!

Dober

Back to the subject...I have a zip-up fleece bag that adds 20F or more to any bag it's in, but they do have their problems. If you put it in a nylon lined bag, you need some way to pin or tie it in place or it'll be wadded up after 1 roll over. Also, you need to sleep close to naked for the same reason. Any kind of cloth clothing will wind it up tight around you. Then try to find the zipper in a hurry when the last beer hits you at 1:30.

I get the most use out of it when it's above 50. I just sleep in it and unzip the down sleeping bag and use it for a blanket when it gets cold.

Dick

Beer. Whiskey. I'm jealous! Half my camp is recovering alchoholics so I have to keep it VERY mellow. That's a good thing, don't get me wrong, but it would be fun to tie one on at least one night up there...

One more reason to buy my own tent...

-jeff

You didn't say how cold it may get where you will be hunting, but if you expect extreme cold, don't ever depend on a wood stove to keep you warm at night! They nearly always burn out in the wee hours, and then the temperature drops like a stone. Saddlesore's system sounds about right. Here's what our Canadian old timers use - The Woods Arctic 5-Star bag. It is a double sleeping bag system, a down bag,synthetic bag and and wool liner combined with a canvas cover. Decades of use in Canadian bush camps proves it works in very cold weather, and can be adapted to warmer conditions. I made my own knock-off, but I think you can still buy them from Canadian mail order companies like SIR in Winnipeg.
I have also camped out comfortably in -45 degree weather using a good -20 rated synthetic bag and covering with a good down bag opened up as a top layer, then putting all over two wide, long closed-cell foam pads to insulate you from below. Use a balaclava or toque to keep your head warm, and wear long underwear and socks to bed. You'll be toasty! Take your first layer of clothes to bed with you and it won't be so cold to get into in the morning. Sweet dreams!

If you stop at a feed store and buy a bag or two of coal, you can keep some heat all night, at least enough to kindle a fire easily when you wake up at 3:00 AM.

I have lived in canvas wall tents in the Canadian bush and I HATE them with a passion; they are a pita to erect with only 1-2 guys, tend to retain dampness and stink like mildew and are not very reliable under heavy snow loading as we experience here in BC.

I much prefer a base camp of a Kifaru tipi with Kifaru stove, my choice is an 8-man and this, with the liner, stove, groundcloths, furniture and lighting plus auxiliary Mr. Heater or other such accessory weighs maybe 30 lbs. all up. I add my Hilleberg Saivo for a sleeping tent which will stay quite comfy in cold weather with a pair of simple candle lanterns for my sleeping tent and with EVERYTHING I require for a longterm base camp, 4-6 weeks, I am at roughly 50 lbs.

This is easy to erect and maintain, far easier to transport and it withstands weather better than any wall tent I have ever lived in. It costs more, but, is worth it in terms of comfort, adapability, weight savings and so forth. YMMV.

All of this tent talk reminds me of a story an outfitter told me.

One of the hobbled horses got tangled up in the tent ropes and it ripped the canvas off the frame awakening his client.

He said he always remembers the image of a guy in a sleeping bag wiggling across the snow yelling bear, bear, somebody shoot it.

That's funny---I can see that happening.

A bag I've used for a few years and I really like is the 3-D Bag, by Cabela's. It's discontinued, and therefore discounted, and comes in different weights and sizes. Of course, I bought mine just before they discounted them...

I don't think the wall tents are all that hard to set up- especially if you don't try to use those complicated angles.

I don't mind going outside to take a whizz and I only have to do it once a night- I restoke the stove at the same time. Makes climbing back in the bag that much better!

A wall tent with a wood floor and a good stove is a pretty good camp- much roomier than the Kifaru. I don't know why a wall tent would smell any moldier than a Kifaru tent treated the same way. For a 2-3 day hunt I can put up with any kind of camp, but on a week and a half elk hunt in the late season, a flimsy camp, makes for a lousy hunt.

The best hunt I ever had involved 2 12x14 wall tents with a common area between them; one tent for cooking and socializing, the other was for sleeping only. Both had a wood stove and I had a big stack of hardwood for each.

For those of you camping in places like Montana, where there is no such thing as HARDWOOD, you have my condolences. A big walnut log will burn for hours and is quite aromatic. I rarely burn anything but hardwood in my stove at night. During awake time, I will burn aspen or juniper as it is hotter and easier to light.

One of my duties as junior member at elk camp has been to bring about 1/8 cord of oak or ash... burns at night much better than the tamarack we cut up there.

I'm trying to decide between a 10x12 and a 12x14 tent. Any thoughts?

I agree about the setup you mention; that's how we do it. Two tents, then a ridgepole between them and a tarp stretched and guy-lined to form a covered cooking area between the tents. Pretty slick!

-jeff

Jeff- I would go with the 12x14 and also with the highest sides you could get.

Dennis-I totally agree with you about putting up a wall tent, ours is a 16x20 and with the frame that we have it isn't tough at all to get it up in short time

As for drying it out we're really lucky as the fella who store our camp for us has a garage about the size of the Superdoom and we can just put up to dry for a few days in that. And or he also has a big warehouse at work that we've used from time to time to put up and so for us drying is a non issue.

JB did a story a while back for SH that was called "Hunting Camp" and it is for sure one of my fav reads. I really enjoy things like this and the writing on cooking for hunting camps by his better half more than any of the gun gack anymore.

Later

Dober

I found a quick and easy way to dry my alaknak, I pull the tent out and open the door, I aim a big fan into the door, the tent inflates like a baloon and is dry in an hour when I do this in my living room...a bit longer in the cold shop.

I just set it up in the back yard if I have to and build a fire in the stove. Most hunts, it's dry enough when we put it away.

Try that in wilderness BC and see how well it dries, believe me, it won't and it will mildew. Kifaru tipis are synthetic and do not mildew as well as being far easier to set up in a hurry.

I have set up many wilderness camps using wall tents, these were where we lived for as long as three months and in sub-zero weather that went below -25 for days on end. When you see wall tents coillapse under a huge, sudden snowfall that happens within a few hours, you tend to feel better about sleeping in a Hilleberg Saivo, one of the premier mountain and arctic tents available.

Hunts in dry Arizona in the late season for 10 days where you drive to your campsite are a bit different than longterm working camps that are over 100 air miles from anything in the northern Canadian wilderness. I find that the severe weight restrictions of the aircraft necessary for access makes my setup far better for this than aany wall tent I have yet used.

But, WTF, the idea that my camp is ...flimsy...., well, that is funny.

Mark,

Can you recall which issue that is? I've just subscribed this year and would like to get that article if it's available as a back issue.

Allen

Sleeping in Wall tents?
depends on who is stoking the stove. When my buddy bill was hunting he never fell asleep long enough for it to get much more than a little cool, most of the time I was sweating my @@s off. Be ready for major temperature swings. Once everyone falls asleep and the fire goes out most people just sink down into the sleeping bags and wait for someone else to start the fire. We use a propane mister heater, but only to knock the chill off or warm up before we head out in the morning if the fire has died. I can go about a week on 30# bottle if used that way. So I recommend a good large cold weather bag. You can always unzip when the stove is being stoked, then can sleep comfortable if everyone gets worn out and lets the fire go out.

Pugs-it is May/June of 05.

Dober

Broncolope-great pic!

Dober

You covered it pretty well and that is a very nice picture!

George

IMO, comparing a Kifaru tipi to a canvas wall tent is apples and oranges. I own and use both, and I like both.

One is made lightweight for backcountry use, and one isn't. One can have a cast iron airtight stove that will hold a fire for hours and hours; one doesn't. Both stoves will get hot enough to almost run you out of the tent though.

Neither shelter is flimsy, it's all in your perspective. A wall tent in zero degree weather with wood floors, cots, tables, chairs, etc. is great, but it just ain't gonna happen any distance from the road. A tipi with a woodstove a few miles in is a godsend, and it's bombproof as far as weather.

Well, I agree, my point was not to compare as I clearly stated where I have and do use my camps, it was simply that wall tents are not very adaptable and are damp in the wet Canadian climate.

Properly set up, with a liner and especially the auxiliary Hilleberg Saivo sleeping tent, the Kifaru tipi is as weatherproof as anything I have ever seen, much less prone to mildew and it is simply easier to use and live in in remote wilderness.

We will be heading into northern BC this month on a prospecting-Moose hunting trip; it is not possible to pack in a wall tent and all that goes with it, while a K-tipi takes little space/weight in the plane and mine has certainly not been fragile.

With the road restrictions, air access and jetboat access involving weight issues that are now commonplace in BC hunting, a wall tent is not a particularly practical choice and there are alternatives as I have mentioned.

Thanks much,. I just ordered a back issue

You'll love it, it is a super read a ton load better than ballistic gack 101!

Dober

Oh come on, let's argue about the difference 100 fps makes, or how much better or worse a .280 is than a .270... or the granddaddy of ALL gack, 30-06 vs. 270! (30-06 is, of course, better... heh heh...)

-jeff

Maybe "flimsy" wasn't the best word, but I would be more comfortable in a large wall tent where I could stand up, walk around, change positions etc, than a small tent in which I couldn't. I can't stand waking up in a tent so short that I can't stand up to get my pants on. Call me a sissy I guess.Can comment on the wall tent collapsing under a sudden large snowfall as the most I have seen in one storm was 16" over night. I stuck an additional post in the middle of the ridge pole and it held fine. The only time I have had one collapse was when a horse got into the lines and pulled one end down.

How does a tent mildew in -25??? I guess if you put it away with all that snow and ice on it then don't take care of it again until spring, it would be a mess.

Since I have never camped north of the 54th parallel in the winter, I may never know!!

Your considerations would require a different camp for sure, I think if I had to stay 3 months in that kind of weather, I would spend the first week building a cabin!!

Dennis, not to belabor the point becasue it's totally off-topic, but the tipis are pretty big, plenty big enough to walk around in.

Four of us did a late November hunt last year and pulled our gear in with sleds. We had the 12-man tipi. Actually, 3 of us had sleds, one had a backpack. We pulled the three sleds inside the tipi to unload, rolled out the sleeping pads, and just left the sleds inside to hold our gear because there was no need to put them outside the tent. That's how much room we had.

The tent and stove were hauled in by two guys right around 60, BTW (along with the rest of their gear), uphill at 10,000 ft. through knee-deep snow so the light weight was a big plus.

broncolope, neat pic. I don't get the golden glow from green canvas........But the neighbors left the lights on for me when I was late to come in....

couple more for you guys. My house.

Camp with high-lined ponies.Night shots.



Come on, elk season......Don

I really need to scan in some elk camp pics... maybe tomorrow...

-jeff

I have both a Kifaru Tipi and a wall tent, and much prefer the wall tent for comfort if I can pack it to the hunting spot. They are both great systems, but for different situations. The Kifaru does excel for plane travel. I must politely disagreee with Kutenay's comment about wall tents being too damp and having mildew problems in the "Canadian" climate - wall tents work just fine in Saskatchewan, where it is much drier than in most of BC, and you can see by the attached picture that my tent has no mildew problems, in fact I mostly do not even bother with a fly because we don't get much precipitation. Just different conditions depending on where you go.

Plenty of BC outfitters using wall tents so they must work?

MtnHtr

I love those pic's guys.

Gdv

Sorry, I should not have generalized about Canada, typical "Lotua Land" attitude, eh!

I can tell you from LONG, hard experience that a camp set up like yours in the photo HERE, would be soggy as hell within two days in November. During the many years I worked out of various bush camps here, I came to hate wall tents with a passion and I have set up enough camps to just detest them....give me a synthetic tent that will DRY OUT, but, each to his own...any big Whitetails on that trip?

Actually, the use of wall tents among BC outfitters, mineral exporation crews, forestry crews and various other groups living in the BC bush, especially remote wilderness areas has declined greatly over the past couple of decades. The outiftters have main lodges, cabins at "satellite camps" and use mountain tents such as Hillebergs at "spike camps".

I know this from having been in a lot of these camps from 1965 to the present and am going to the Yukon/northern BC, briefly, later this month; I am actually being hired to set up camps among other duties, due to having done so much of this over the years.

A few weeks ago, I talked with Petra Hilleberg as I had asked them last February about poassible wood heating of their large Atlas base camp tent. She mentioned that they WERE "working"on this, using a good, old Kifaru stove to develop a system. Now, THAT would really be the catsazz, IMO, OR, maybe Patrick and EdT might develop a Titanium airtight and this would all weigh maybe 35 lbs, total. What a wilderness rig that would be!!!

Hey, Kute, don't worry about speaking for other parts of Canada in your posts, I know I often generalize about other places based on my own experience, it's only natural. That's when others should post opinions, and the reader can sort it out! I know that I would need to modify my methods for wetter climates, and your recommendations also match my very limited experience gained from three hunting trips to the Yukon (weather similar to BC I think, much wetter than SK).
We shot a couple of whitetail does and one nice buck on that trip, ( somewhere around 160 pts, but didn't bother to measure, we're mostly meat hunters) but all the moose were able to avoid us that time.

Kute,

Its probably not an option for wilderness areas but I think for long term setup a wood foundation/floor is best. They use canvas wall tents up in the park over here with no mildew problems. These tents stay up year around and some remain in the shade all winter due to the canyon walls. And it is foggy/misty on most days (when its not raining or snowing) so there is plenty of moisture.


I personally know of some hunting camps in WY and ID that use wood floors and frames too.

MtnHtr

About all the longer I'd ever set up a wall tent would be two weeks, and I do admit I'd be somewhat worried about using one for two solid weeks in the rain... but where I would be setting mine up snow is much, much more likely.

My bud's tent, the one that got stored wrong and then pressure washed and is now ruined, would leak in the snow. The walls would get wet. PITA. I'll probably tarp mine. I'm pissed because a couple years ago, as a contribution to elk camp, I had a tent company make me a tarp out of tent fabric that we could use to go between our two wall tents, instead of a blue tarp.. but it's just a couple feet too small to work as a fly on the tent I'm about to order! Dang it.

-jeff

I use an old down mummy bag and 3" inches of foam on the cot.The foam is as important as the bag.

Jeff, you ought to start a thread on the Blue poly tarp cult. Best thing that has happened to canvas tents

Ahmen, mine is green though.

Green tarps are much better than blue tarps...ask anyone who has used both. Blue ones just aren't heavy enough to do the job...too much is lost from using a tarp that's just not big enough for the job.
Green tarps are better for longer range planning...they go farther, and are better for bigger jobs. And there's a bigger selection of sizes.
For the best though, use a grey one...real men use grey tarps. They go farther than all the little green or blue tarps. Blue tarps are ok for women and children, especially when modified to fit smaller frames. Green tarps are ok for most mansized jobs, but grey is the best because they are bigger and therefore reach farther and are more hard hitting when it comes to getting the job done. My favorite tarp is a grey 20x30', modified to fit my frame, of course. It's a custom tarp with 1 in 3' grommets.

No more "cult" posting from me! The natives were getting restless. Feel free, though! Oregon is one big cult of the blue tarp anyway. People roof their frikkin' houses with 'em!

-jeff