DAMN I like my .338.

Here's a chambering that, in a relatively light rifle (M700 XCR) is completely shootable with maximum 225-gn loads... is sub-MOA accurate... brass life appears to be eternal (have not worn any out yet and I'm trying!) and it puts large animals DOWN!

And, in terms of velocity, it slots nicely in there in my favorite "window" where just about all bullets work great: a MV of 2800, 2900 fps or so. Impact velocity of 2000 t0 2800. Perfect.

What's not to like? This may be the single best caliber there is, for general big-game hunting.

I'm in love. You should be too.

-jeff

I've owned six 338's... really never found it did anything a 30-06 couldn't do. Good bullets have leveled the playing field. Did I mention I got sick of the recoil?

WOW that was fast! You replied while I was editing my original post... quick-draw Brad!

I love my 30-06 equally as much. But the .338 has an undeserved rep as a hard kicker, and it just isn't, at least to me. My XCR is a shoot-all-afternoon rifle, in fact that's what I did this afternoon.

I guess a feller can't start an all-hail thread without being ready to defend their demi-god, so here goes!

Within the context of also loving the 30-06, I feel that the .338 is well-described as a family member to the '06. A big brother. It's got a similar trajectory, is equally easy to load for, is not an extreme, "big" magnumb by any stretch... just a well-behaved, moderate-recoiling, caliber that will do whatever the 30-06 does only with more authority.

You Montana guys have it easy. You kill a lot of elk over there. It gets boring. For those of us hunting in low-percentage areas the extra power (in all ways) of the .338 is a nice bonus and comes at very little cost compared to another long-action rifle like a 30-06.

Now, you wanna talk SHORT rifles...

-jeff

you dang right .338!!

my only prob with it is that I didn't buy myself a M70 SG in 338 when I could have & should have for years strung in a row.

I've looked at the XCR, good to know you like yours.

Also curious about a savage, wishing they offerd the 114 in 338... looked at the ruger m77....

my first love for the 338 is in that damn M70 SG though...

oh, well, a guy's gotta want for things right?

till the day comes... a 300 WBY does the chore.

The XCR coating does as advertised; it is TUFF. The stock is... eh... kind of funny-looking, but you know what, with frozen icy gloves, those overmolded pads really make it easier to hang onto the rifle compared to a wood or laminate stock (carried all three with frozen icy gloves!).

Mine is astoundingly accurate. I have no idea what it can do in the hands of a real shooter, but I can put 3 shots sub-MOA every single time. Can't say that about most of my other rifles. I put a Jewell triggin in it. It rocks. Everyone should own one.

:-)

-jeff

very cool Jeff, makes me smile to read such enthusiasm.

that's what it's all about right?

FNA!!

good for you.

good luck with that beast.

gonna grab one more beer & it's off to bed for this dude.

Dave

Well Jeff, I'll hail it too. I have much confidence in the round. It has always taken care of business for me without a hitch. My Ruger is heavy so recoil is not an issue.

When I started hunting elk out of state I had the only .338 in the group. After four trips together, everybody in the group had gone .338. They liked the results, I guess.

We should meet at the top of the pass and burn some powder together sometime. I'm curious about the recoil level in your XCR.

That XCR does sound nice.
My 338 is a Ruger, recoil with 225gr bullets @2850 is not bad at all.
Does your XCR have a 26" tube?

Worse than any 458 I've shot........


Casey

Recoil
Maybe, that's why I shoot my 338-06, more than my 338 RUM.

Tim, yes the 26" tube is the only thing I don't like about it. I've gotten used to it, but I'd prefer 24". But, it's such a shooter I'd be an idiot to mess with it. It still has the pressure point in the stock, too (not floated). I ain't messing with success!

-jeff

Jeff,
Sounds like a very nice rifle-I don't mind 26" barrels myself.

I would like to get an XCR in a 338RUM, and put a McMillan on it, and get a nice after market trigger.

Yeah man! I'm up there sometimes to see my dad, who is one of the retirees driving all you guys nuts up there.

I'd love to do some central Oregon shootin'. Likewise, if you are ever down this way I have a pretty fun steel plate course set up from 250 to 650 yards, cross-canyon, and it's right by the 100-yard range I shoot at all the time. All informal, on BLM land.

Soon soon soon, I'll be able to start hunting mulies "over there". I've described my dilemna before to you: I have too many mulie points to waste on anything other than the absolute best hunt Oregon has to offer... so I'm holding out... which means no in-state mulie hunting until I hunt the damn premium hunt!

My .338 might even be my longer-range blacktail rig this year, if I do any of that (mostly I still and stand hunt blacktail up close). It's just really working well and has been for 3 years now, and with the new scope with the B&C reticle in it I am solid out to nearly 500 yards, wind permitting.

-jeff

I will say this about the RUM: I have a friend who has sold more rifles than most of us will ever own. Including some pretty heavy artillery. He bought a XCR in .338 RUM and found it completely unmanageable from typical hunting shooting positions. His was also a very accurate rifle, but he sold it due to the brutal recoil.

This is a guy who's owned multiple .338's, some .375's, etc.

So go into a .338 RUM XCR with your eyes open!

-jeff

Seven and a half pounds. 22-inch barrel.

She's a pussycat.

rb

I hear you, Jeff.
My last 338RUM was in a Sendero, shot great, but I hated the stock.
It kicked about like my 340wby accumark, but I want something that weighs a bit less.

No free lunch, I suppose.

Wow, Rick.
Nice lookin rig you got there.
What kind of velocities you get with that 22" tube, if I may ask?

The plain ol' 338 WM XCR, however, is a real joy to shoot. I put 40 rounds through mine day before yesterday and another 25 today (new scope to sight in, verify, practice with the new reticle at long range, etc). No worries.

A RUM in a heavy enough package would be a very interesting "landing" rifle. Guys are doing astounding things with the .338 Edge and 300-gn bullets, which is a slightly more powerful wildcat off the .300 RUM if I am understanding it correctly.


But I'm just a plain ol', non-assuming, blue-jeans wearin', truck drivin' .338 Win Mag kind of guy. If I want more range than I am currently getting (500 yards), I'd go with something like a 7 STW, not a bigger .338.

-jeff

I agree, Rick has a good one there.

Does RL19 work from a 22" barrel? I wouldn't even know how to load my .338 without that stuff!

-jeff

One of the rifles that I kept of the 50 that I sold off, it got out of hand some. Is a Sako 75 SS in 338 Winchester Mag. One of the finest out of the box rifles I ever owned. Along with the Blaser R-93 that I now shoot. The Sako shoots and carries well and I can shoot it well too. That in the end is what matters, you have to be able to shoot the rifle you choose well enough to place those bullets where they need to go.

After two cups of coffee and 30 minutes of quiet reflection on the cartridge,I've come to the same conclusion I arrived at 20-odd years ago; that being that the 338 is a fabulous big game cartridge for which I have no use whatsoever.I say that having owned and shot about a 1/2 dozen;everything from a high-end Griffen&Howe sporter on a pre64 M70 action, to a couple of lightweight (8 1/4 lb) synthetic stocked wonders built on M70 actions.I've seen the cartridge in action any number of times on elk and brown bear, and spent considerable time discussing its virtues with a couple of brown bear guides in Alaska, where it is highly regarded.They said when a client showed with a 338, they wanted to know "what bullet?"; if he showed with a 375, they generally did not worry.

After digging around elk,bear, etc. carcasses to look at wound channels, and recovered bullets my conclusions are that it does not kill measurably better than the 300 mags with heavier bullets(said another way, it certainly seems to kill as well);wound channel size and depth of penetration seem roughly similar,provided bullet structure is the same.And recovered bullets from the 338's do not look a whole lot different in frontal area.

Having fired hundreds of rounds out of the 338 WM, and the various 300 mags out to the 600 yard line,I notice that the 338 is outclassed trajectory-wise by the 300's beyond the 400 yard mark(if you shoot 250's in the 338 the 300's leave it in the dust much sooner).

I've seen elk collapse like empty puppets when hit at long and close range by 270's,7 mags,300 mags,30/06,340,338, etc, so I don't get too excited about the legendary toughness of elk. If you get sloppy with your first shot, with any cartridge, you are generally in for a long, trying day; hit properly they are not at all tough to kill.

Since a guy needs so few rifles above 30 caliber, I decided awhile ago that I'd be better served with a light 375 H&H, which with my handloads,pushes a 250 gr Bitterroot over 2900 and makes a far bigger wound channel than any 338; also easily shoots as flat to 400 as any 338 load, (with the possible exception of 180BT's, whatever they may be good for)and at 8 1/2 pounds carries about the same.Slipstick theory aside, the notion that a 338 Win Mag is as good as a 375 H&H is, based on what I've seen both do to animals,simply not true. If I want to go to Afica, I can just grab the same rifle.I really don't think the 338 is any better than the 300's(which is to say it's a good cartridge).

So, I agree 100% with Barsness who wrote a year or so ago, that his 338 gathers dust, and he is happier splitting chores between a 300 mag and a 375,etc. I came to the same conclusion about 20 years ago.

I'm still trying to figure out why 2800 fps is so "perfect".

338 win mag is very liveable recoil wise, very accurate, works very good on large game... AND I have taken game way out there with it... 802 is the furtherest.... trajectory is plenty good for that and it bucks the wind well enough... I prefer it over 300 mags for some reason... can't say why..

Have shot a 338 RUM and did the load work for a friend in an XCR.. its tough but manageable...

If I were going long range I'm going the 338 RUM or probably Edge...

I'd love a 375 also but for me the mid round would be the 338 and then skip up into the 40ish calibers...

But then again its all personal anyway...

Bob, my conclusion is basically the same... for the recoil it just doesn't bring all that much to the table. In a rifle with a decent tube weight and decent overall weight (8.75 lbs all-up) recoil isn't a big deal. I always found myself with light 338's and, while shootable, I got sick of dealing with the recoil. The older I get the less I've found I like recoil.

My problem is I don't like heavy rifles and most 338's are. Still, if you put all the variables into a bag and shook them up I suppose an 8.5 lb, 22" bbl'd 338 WM would probably come out as the "ideal" elk rifle.

Were I to do another 338 I'd get a stock Ruger Hawkeye and put it in a Bansner. Cut the barrel to 22" and put a 2-7 Leupold on top. I like the Ruger Magnum Contour on the 338 (about perfect IMO) and I believe the rifle would come in at around 8.5lbs all up which is about right for me.

JEFF: I've had four 22" barreled 338 WM's. 210's generally went 2,950, 225's 2,850 and 250's 2,680. I've used RL19,22,H4831, IMR 4350 and H4350.

H4350 is my favorite 338 WM powder.

Pretty much. I think the best place for the 338 bore is with the REAL high velocity 338's, for those who shoot REAL long range;for those (like me) who lack the skill,gear, and inclination for shooting beyond 500, I'll leave the 338 to others and take the 300's.If more is required, I'll go 375, which is as far as I wanna go anyway........

I couldnt agree more with Jeff, the .338 is an awesome round.
I would love to own a .338 win model 70 SS with a boss on it, but like others have stated I probably wouldnt use the gun on very much game unless I was going after moose.
So for me I would do a .338 federal in Rem TI, now that would be a little more useful to me.

Rick-now that is one nice rifle, most certainly one of a couple of favs of mine that show up here from time to time! About model perfect for yotes as well as elk...grins

Dober

I'd love to shoot a .375 some time. From what I hear, that's a great round. While I have no firsthand knowledge I would never assert that the .338 is the same thing as a .375; that would make no sense. Except for later in this post. :-)

As far as 30 vs. 338... eh... who knows. I do know that for some odd reason the various 300 mags hold NO appeal to me, none whatsover. It makes no rational sense but there it is! Possible execption being something like a Montana or Model 7 in 300 WSM, but even then I'd prefer .325 WSM. Anyway, maybe it's because I love 30-06 so much and if I want to hit harder, I'll go .338 while if I want to shoot significantly flatter, I'll go with a big 7mm of some sort... the big 30's are sort of the odd man out in my book.

Brad- I messed with H4350 in my .338. In fact if memory serves that's what fuels my 200-gn BT plinkin' load. But my rifle just loves the Rl19 with 225... whatcha gonna do. I'm a die-hard H4350 fan though. It's my main powder. I don't know what RL19 would do from 22" but from 26", I get slightly over the nominal velocity for the cartridge... pushing 2900 with 225's.

It's interesting how bullets have indeed leveled the playing field, as Brad mentioned. We're almost to the point of being able to look at the ft/lbs delivered by a cartridge, and then being able to judge it THAT way- as in, how do you want those ft/lbs delivered? Do you want a predictibly massive wound channel? A very long relatively thin one? Something in between? It's all there and mostly all seems to work as advertised. Or at least, fairly predictably.

So in THAT sense, I guess it could be said that in the same way that a 30-06 can rival a .338 with modern bullets, a .338 can probably rival a .375 with modern bullets. This is a hypothesis on my part. What say you, Bob?

-jeff

as much as I like the 338, I like the 375 better. Recoil is technically greater but "feels better" as I think it's slower. The 375 is not very range-limited either, contrary to popular belief.
I also think the 338 (with 250s) packs a lot more wallop than a 30 anything and will penetrate deeper than just about any other common round.

Mine's a Howa 1500. Came with a Tupperware stock. Restocked with a laminated Boyd's JRS job and glass bedded same. Topped with a simple Leupold M-8 4X. I've discovered that my rifle doesn't start to percolate, accuracy wise, until near max loads. On a day when I do my part, it will put 3, 250 gr. Hornadys into about .75" @ 100 yards.

Oh, I forgot to add that I had a Sorbothane buttpad installed on my stock. World of difference!

May use mine to hunt the deadly whitetail deer this November (grin).

Jeff: They all kill;which one you like best is the one to use.I can only carry one at a time,and having a theoretically perfect rifle for every micro-niche in big game hunting is something I want to avoid.300's and 338's both cut the same swath.The 375 is a tad different than either.

The newer bullets are a help,but whatever advantage a 338 may gain by newer technology applies to the the 375 as well, and the 416, etc, up the line, so the bigger hammer still wins.Better bullets do seem to let you "stretch" a cartridge, so are always a great idea, on anything,and in any calber.

I turned a 338 Finnbear into a STW.Best move I made in awhile.But I do have another 338 Finnbear collecting dust.Maybe I'll have to change that one day.It's what I mainly used while guiding.

It's a good cartridge.

7STW: That's what I found with mine. It IS a great cartridge, but I always grabbed the 300 when it was time to chase the elks!Mine gathered dust, too.

Recoil and trajectory being similar as they are, I'd grab my .338 every time over a 300 mag!

Funny... guess that's why they make so many calibers, eh?

-jeff

Bob
Yup A 300 and a 200 grain bullet always trumped my 338..Very easily too.

I have owned a couple of them, and by the time they were light enough to enjoy hunting elk with, they were not much fun to enjoy shooting. So they both went down the road.

I love my .338 WM. It is easy to load for and accurate. I just do not find its recoil pushing a 250 NP at 2,700 to be a big deal. It is like a big, fat .30-06 which is the bottom half of my 2 gun big game battery.

Expat

I had a 338WM, killed a shiras moose with it. The recoil was not bad at all. I feel the 338WM brings alot to the table with 200gr - 250gr bullets. Folks I know use 'em all the time as their main elk rifles. I also know a fella who used his 338WM on (2) Russian brown bears and (1) Kodiak brownie, swore by the 338WM for elk on up.

I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin).

MtnHtr

7STW:Left a bunch of 300 Weatherby mag ammo with 200 gr partitions with my elk guide;he shot at a cow, and two(!)came down.I found that bullet penetrates a lot of animal flesh.

Bob-back when I had Krieger in 300 Wby on my old 700 I ran serious amuck using the 200 Noz and the 165 Sierra HPBT. Both of them were rather effective at sorting things out.

Only problemo is that I now use my 7 Mashburn Super for all and it is a fair bit more user friendly than the 300's and every darn bit effective.

Dober

....The 338 has earned it's place as one of the great caliber standards used to measure other offerings. It's wide spread availability, and unfailing field performance assures it's being a standard for many a generation! In my opinion it's recoil level is much exaggerated, more like shaking hands with an old friend than getting clocked by aunt hattie's mule, but then different folks are just that, "different".In the game field recoil ain't near the nemisis it is at the bench anyway! If a fellow is truly bothered by recoil, just load her up with 210 grain Nosler partitions and you can have at any big beastie in North America, with confidence, and at any reasonable range too.

+1

:-)

-jeff

Nothing is perfect, of course.

I base my opinion on my experience. In my experience, shooting "moderate" calibers such as 7-08, 30-06, 30-30, 32 win, .358, etc I have NEVER had a bullet failure, I have ALWAYS had an exit wound, and I have NEVER lost an animal. That's in only 15 deer, but that starts to be a big enough sample that I can form an informed opinion. In my opinion.

In that batch of deer, bullets used included many soft bullets like Powerpoints, Hot Cors, Ballistic Tips, etc. Every single one exited the deer.

One hears no end to the horror stories about problems when one jacks the MV up too high.

Now is where you say "don't use a fly to flanders bullet, use a TSX" but to that I say, why? When standard bullets in standard, moderate calibers kill so well? It is foolishness to correct a velocity problem with an expensive, hard to get bullet when there is a much simpler solution- keep the speed in the "window" and watch things work great. And burn less powder, suffer less recoil, watch your rifle barrel last multiples of time longer, listen to less ringing in your ears... etc ad nauseum.

In a general purpose hunting rifle I think the perfect MV is in the 2900 range... that means that at typical killin' ranges the bullet will be going 2200-2600 fps. And the rifle will shoot plenty flat out to 500 yards is a person is so inclined. And you know what? That bullet will almost certainly perform... ta da... "perfectly"!

A person engaging in long-distance hunting is playing a different game, with different rules, of course. Those people represent a minority by far and yet everyone is getting addicted to extremely fast cartridges then shooting little dog deer at 125 yards and wondering why they just lost half the meat.

That's what I think anyway.

-jeff

I have 2 338s and a 300 winnie. But I will be taking the Model 70 classic compact in .308 elk hunting this year. 3 pounds lighter is well worth having to get a few feet closer.

Jeff -

I believe that you are right on point in your assessment!

Jeff, how many elk have you killed with the 338 WM and what are the specifics?

Jeff,

Great post! And 15 deer kills is plenty to form an opinion. Some of the best hunters I know pass up far more bucks than they kill since they are trophy hunters so does that make the meat hunter's opinion more valid? Of course not!

MtnHtr

Deer are so hard to kill... can't really see how they're a "test" of much anything.

Very true on the kill factor. So how many big mulies have you slayed?

MtnHtr

Body wise, not rack wise, a few... how many elk you killed?

Brad--
Asking people to back up opinions and attitudes with experience will take all the fun out of the internet.
(I think I have killed 6 elk; five with 7 Mag and one with 6.5-06. My son has killed 3 with .270. I am glad no one told the elk we were so woefully undergunned.)

I've killed two elk, does that make me a lessor hunter than you?

MtnHtr

Brad knows a whole heck of a lot more about rifles and hunting than I ever will, and has had a great deal of influence on the rifles I have had built.
I'm sure he is correct to prefer the '06 over the 338 WM, but the '06 just doesn't give me the good comfortable feeling that I have with the WM
Good old common sense is one thing, but confidence in a rifles ability is something else.

Your insecurity makes you think it does... I could care less. You're the one that started a pissing contest (as usual).

My point was and remains, deer aren't much of a test of anything... even big-bodied Carp Deer.

Would also add, those that haven't been around many elk kills tend to over arm themselves... just another thought.

Nicely said Tracks and I know your confidence comes from experience!

I'd be the last one to talk a guy out of something that works for him!

I think it's kinda odd somebody discounts deer as not much of a test of anything but perhaps Brad meant as a test of bullet construction. I guarantee a trophy class mule deer (non rut) on public land is not a slam dunk either (unless you draw a limited tag -maybe).

MtnHtr

Nobody said killing a 180+ class Muley is easy... I just said deer aren't much of a test of bullets and cartridges (which is what this post is about in case you'd lost track).

There you go with your pop physic analysis again. WTF is up with you? You belittle Jeff Olsen on here by asking for "experience" and trump yourself as "Mr.Authority"

Its getting old Brad, I thought you were a good dude.

MtnHtr

Mtn Hunter, your opinion of me means less than nothing... you forage around this forum looking for ways to take cheap shots at my friends and myself then act bewildered when you get called on it publicly and privately.

This is the last time I'll respond to anything you have to say so I'll be the gentleman and let you have the final word.

You did post "......can't really see how they're a "test" of much anything."

Get a clue, you mis-posted is all. Just get over it...........

MtnHtr

You've slung plenty of $hit on this forum yourself and your friend has the gall to ask me for rifle info via PM after ridiculing my bullet choices & experiences on the forum.

You need to get out and hunt some elk to relieve some of that nail slinging stress you've built up.

MtnHtr

Anyway........Jeff, I'm glad to read your obvious enthusiasm for the .338WM. I was too when I finally bought my first one a couple years ago. I was pleasantly surprised that the recoil was nothing to worry about, and the accuracy was great. The first powder I tried was H4350 and was so happy with it that I haven't tried anything else. Rather than start a collection of bullet weights I settled on 225grs as a good do-all weight. I haven't killed anything with it (you know the Oregon's public land deal), but I don't regret buying the rife. It's fun. Actually the only bummer is that I can't buy CorLokts in bulk for slaying rocks----------it wasn't until buying a .338 that I became aware of of how fast boolits get more expensive above .30cal. I call Remington once or twice a year to tell them to get with the program.

Keep carryin' that .338 torch Jeff!

Thanks 222!

Wow... didn't mean to walk away right when things got interesting! Had to take my daughter to a dance... which brings up the question, what's the best caliber for horn-dog boys?

I was simply keeping Bob and I's running debate alive. My feeling is that cartridges in a certain velocity window seem to perform best on game without resorting to exotics like all-copper bullets. Brad, while we've never discussed this, by your choices of caliber (fine choices by my reckoning I might add, 30-06 and .308), you too feel this way. .338 is sort of the medium-big version of this mindset, with Bob's choice of .375 being the big mac daddy of 'em all. Bob asked why I thought 2800-2900 fps was the shiznit and I attempted to elaborate! THAT'S where deer came into it, because in reality, a .338 Winchester Magnum is obscene overkill for any deer. I was using the game animal that I have had the most experience with, that's all.

Well, elk are technically deer... but you know what I mean! :-)

I have not killed an elk with a .338. I want to, badly... I have only killed one with a 45/70 and that is a whole seperate discussion.

I HAVE helped take apart several elk killed with .338's, a couple with 30-06's, and one with a 300 WSM. All of them were obviously dead or they would have kicked my a$$ as I cut them up. So all those calibers obviously worked.

I have said many times that I would hunt elk with a 30-06 any day, and in fact I have spent several seasons toting just that. I feel that a .338 gives me everything good about the 30-06 and then a little more, and I appreciate that little more. Maybe, someday, if by some miracle I get to kill enough elk to get jaded about it to where it doesn't matter so much if I have to let one walk because of a shot angle... I'll step down in power. For now, I have a wonderful, accurate rifle that is stable and is what Dober calls an "honest" rifle... and it's a .338... and I since I'll shoot any elk with horns, and take any shot angle that gets me to the vitals, I figure a .338 is a good choice for elk. And, it is!

We all have our areas of expertise. I daresay I could teach most of you a thing or two about blacktail hunting. Likewise, guys living in the heart of "easy" elk hunting (no such thing, but roll with me here) have experience I will probably never have- period! So while I might be a bit overgunned with my .338 and elk, it's hardly a mistake, or a bad elk caliber, by any stretch. In fact it's one of several excellent choices. I think, personally, all things factored in, it's the best choice for me. At 6'4" and 210 pounds and a bit of a numbskull, the recoil is a non-issue and we all know that a 225-gn .338 bullet at a MV of 2900 is gonna whack the crap out of any elk that walks if I do my part. And I feel that at the impact speeds I'll be seeing bullet construction, while important, is not a crisis like it would be if I were using say a 300 RUM or 7 STW.

If one of you Montana guys spent thousands of dollars to come to Oregon on an expedition to kill a blacktail, you'd put a lot of thought and effort and research into it, and most likely put some serious thought into your rifle and cartridge. Here, where the damn things are everywhere and I know how and where to go kill one if I put my mind to it, same as you do with elk Brad and Dober, I tend to experiment, try light calibers and heavy ones and this and that. I have that luxery. There's always tomorrow, the season is 5 weeks long, and I can hunt them on my own property if worse comes to worse.

Elk are not like that for me. It's a 5 day season with a low percentage rate of success. It's an obsession. I drive 12 hours to get there, set up several days in advance, go scouting, hunt hard, and most likely come home empty handed. Then I do it again next year. So if my .338 is indeed a little overpowered, I hope you'll understand that it's all in the honest attempt to KILL A F&%$IN' elk!

:-)

Peace, brutha's.

-jeff

Well, here's my thinking........

I'm not too sensitive to recoil so that's not an issue for me.

I love 338's and I love 270's ('o6's almost as well).

I think of the 338 as just a big 270; trajectories are almost identical.

I've killed deer, elk and moose with 270's as well as elk with a 338 and while I've never felt undergunned or disadvantaged with the 270, make no mistake, the 338 thumps anything MUCH harder.

As for deer not being much of a test, to some degree, I concur, but on the other hand I disagree to a point.

I once shot a fairly large bodied mule deer (est. around 300 lbs on the hoof) and when skinning it, found what appeared to be a 24 caliber bullet balled up in one of the hams....nicely mushroomed, didn't come apart or blow up.........just didn't penetrate. Maybe shot at long range and no poop left; who's to know. Was obviously from a previous year and deer showed no ill effects.

For sure it was not an X bullet so won't go there on any comments, pro or con.

Point is, there is a bottom end, at least for mule deer, and in my book, I'd probably set a 25 caliber at >3000 FPS as low end cartridge.

My guess is that if that deer had been hit in the same place with a 270, 150 gr. Partition, he wouldn't have still been around for me to kill.

And if I were paying big bucks for an outfitted hunt for a GENUINE trophy caliber elk or moose, I'd be carrying a 338 instead of one of my beloved 270's.

Good friend of mine who PH'd in Tanzania once told me if it were legal, he'd let me use the 338 for cape buffalo......I think that says something about the potency of the cartridge.

Here's a matched pair of rifles; that is they are identical except for barrel diameter; one is a 270, one is a 338.

Both are Sako's, both have 22" barrels and both are in McM stocks.

The 270 weighs 8.0 lb; the 338 weighs 8 lb. 5 oz.

They are really the only 2 rifles I need for all NA game. If I feel the need to use something bigger than a 270 or 'o6, then I want something substantially bigger and the 338 fills that bill and does so in a reasonably sized package.

MM

Sweet, MontanaMan! Nice pair. I may get down to 2 bolt guns someday... maybe.

-jeff

Jeff,

LOL.......I'm surely not down to 2 guns by a couple of dozen or so, but I could be if necessary.

MM

Very well said Jeff. Those are the same reasons I love my .338. I agree I don't need it for elk. I just really like the way it makes them noticeably sick right away.

I love my '06 too and have no qualms about using it on elk. I just prefer the .338. Nosler's made the '06 plenty good for elk and the TBBC's and so on made it great.

My .338 has a 23 inch tube down from 26 in. I had that done the same time I had the front sight and muzzle brake put on. I wish I had went ahead and had it cut to 22. I really prefer a 22 inch barrel for the coast and for the pole thickets over East. With the success rates in the units in Oregon I am only rarely out of the brush. I'm getting 2750 with 225 grainers and 76 gr R22. I can go to 77 and have but 76 grains is consistently more accurate.

I get the same velocity or a bit more out of 57gr H4350 and a 180 grain bullet in my '06's. They are very close to the same in terms of impact pointout to at least 300 yds as well.

I would encourage you to forego the muzzle brake if possible. I found them to be horribly noisy and if anything the concussion under the sheds was worse than the noise.

The one time I tried to hunt with it on my partner pitched a fit about the noise and I had to agree with him. My brake has never been back on the rifle.

I love mine. If forced to pick one rifle I would be hard pressed not to pic my 338.

Jeff: I've shot lots of game with "moderate" calibers, too, and been on site to track bullets through lots of deer and elk-sized game.I've seen a lot of successes and a lot of what I consider to be "not so hot" bullet performance.So to the extent we're having a bullet discussion I guess my point is that whether you use "moderate" calibers or something a bit faster(which is what I happen to prefer), a really good bullet makes more sense; and if you use a really good bullet, rather than standard cup/core, velocity is not gonna be an issue. Use as much of it as you want!or as little as the mood, or your taste in cartridges suits you.

Picking a velocity level and proclaiming it "perfect" because it accomodates a dumbed-down bullet selection never made sense to me,while using a great bullet, regardless of the velocity,always has, because having seen a fair number of standard bullets come completely apart in game animals,shed cores,deflect off bone and misbehave in numerous wonderful ways, I've just noticed more straight-line penetration through bone and vitals,consistent wound channels,and better behavior over-all from the premiums. It is after all the bullet that does the work; and while standard bullets work pretty well most of the time, I wat to hunt with bullets that work well ALL of the time.Why?

Because whether the game is a deer or a brown bear, elk, etc., they are ALL important to me;because my hunting time is valuable and expensive to come by,hard to acquire, and I'm shooting at a living animal that deserves a quick end.Any cartridge I've ever picked up has worked well for me, but I cannot say that about the bullets.

As for blood-shot meat, I have not suffered from it, except when I used cup/core (standard) bullets that "fly-to-flinders".(It happened with the 30/06, I might add, the great moderate of all time,and 150 Sierras,and the 270 with 130 Sierras. Seen it more than once. MV,by the way, was a bit over 2800 in the 30/06, that "perfect velocity level).Nosler Partitions and Bitterroots have not displayed the tendency to so great a degree, but ruining a bit of meat is the inevitable consequence of inflicting trauma on a game animal. If you wanna eat up to the hole, shoot a 45/70 with hard cast bullets.One of the worst cases of blood -shot deer I ever saw was last fall;270 with 130 Sierras, hit at about 250 yards.My buck was killed with the same cartridge,130 partition,no problem.My guide in Alberta is also a butcher;while working my buck (shot on the shoulder with a 270-130 partition at about 60 yards) he commented how little meat was ruined....

As for noise, you'll be just as deaf if you shoot a 308 without protection as you will a 300 Weatherby.

As for barrel life, I guess if you are worried about it, you must have shot out several, huh?

As for the 338, if you read my posts on it, I proclaimed it a great cartridge, just not my choice because I could not see that it worked a whit better than similar stuff (300's)with bullets of equal structure, and I could not see any magic in it. In that category of cartridge, I just prefer a 300, that's it.In fact, I quite agree with Dober in that I no longer use 300's either because with partitions, B'roots,Swift Aframes, Northforks (premiums), I can drop to the big 7's and game is just as dead, with less recoil(is that moderate?),etc.Aside from that, I know the 388 is a good cartridge.I just don't need the thing.

If a 338 suits you, and it's what you have confidence in (even though I gather from what you've posted that you've never shot an elk with one) then it is what you should use.Just don't try to convince me there is any necromancy associated with it, or pursuade me there is other "magic" in certain velocity levels because cup/core bullets"behave"; that stuff is nothing more than misleading sophistry.

Anyway, I'm going bass fishing. Have a great day and keep shooting!

Dang, now I've gotta go find a dictionary.....

Love them.Your my kinda dude.Those are awesome actions...

+1,000! After hiking four days without getting a shot then having that shot be an Elmer Keith style "rear raking shot" at 300 yards my thinking is-- "why take a chance?" I know the 30-06 could do it, but since I don't have bursitis in my shoulder or partially detached retinas, exactly what reason is there for me NOT to shoot a 338?

Some of the comments I've heard made about the 338 Win. Mag. over the years make me think that I've lost my marbles......

I go back with the 338 Win. Mag. some 27 years now, and I've owned a bunch of rifles in this caliber over that time. I've used it off and on in spurts and I've shot something over 50 big game animals in various states plus one African country with it, animals ranging in size between 100 and 2,000 lbs. This isn't a vast number of animals, but I think I have a pretty fair idea as to what it's good for.

Fundamentally, it'll do all that the 30-06 will do plus much more, and it does clobber stuff harder - that's my experience anyway! But it only shows its stuff if you use good bullets that stay together, and especially if you learn to shoot it well.

The 338 Winchester is also a much, MUCH more viable cartridge for use in a lightweight rifle than the iconic 375 H&H is, and I speak from experience in this regard. I've owned light Remington 700 KS Mountain rifles in both 375 H&H and 338 Win. Mag., and there's absolutely no question that the 375 H&H kicked like a bay mule, and was MUCH more difficult to shoot well than the 338. One of my friends also had a light 375 H&H that was built on a Sako action with a synthetic stock, and that rifle was almost impossible to shoot as well. The idea that somehow a light 375 H&H is going to be just as easy to shoot or somehow kick less than a 338 of the same weight, with the same stock design, etc., is a premise that I simply do not agree with. Needless to say, 375 ammo's heavier to haul up the mountain as well..........

I hunt with the 338 Win. quite a bit these days, but on the downside, it's NOT the best choice at all for many hunters, and mostly due to the fact that it kicks pretty hard in its own right. Lots of guys buy 338s because they think it's stylish to own one, then they don't want to ante up and pay the price to learn how to shoot it well, and their marksmanship deteriorates as a result. I've seen once-a-year riflemen at the range time and again getting ready for elk season with new 338s who were flinching like you wouldn't believe. Such guys are much better off with 30-06s or Seven-Mags that they are with 338s, and I can certainly respect anyone who says they'd rather hunt with a 30-06 instead because it kicks less and because they can shoot it better. That sort of honesty will never get you into trouble, but kidding yourself about your ability to unflinchingly shoot something like the 338 Win. just might.......

As good, versatile, and effective as the 338 is, it's NOT proof against bad bullets (I also speak from experience in this regard), nor will it in any way make up for bad shooting. It's no panacea for poor marksmanship, nor will it ever be.

But if those factors are in place, the 338 Win. Mag. is a great, practical, versatile, and classic world cartridge that's good for 99% of all the world's big game species at least, and I know guys who have literally shot everything you can possibly hunt with it. Versatility is its middle name...........

AD

The .338 Win Mag is a great cartridge and I�ve always figured if I was going into Big Bear country or after moose I�d like to have one. I honestly don�t see the point for elk and smaller, however. (Don�t really think it would be necessary for moose, either but it would be fun.) My 7mm Rem Mag has performed perfectly on elk since 1982 so perhaps I�m a bit biased.

Elk can be killed with just about any cartridge. I encourage people to use whatever they like. Most of the time I carry my 7mm-08 and know that it is plenty of gun(has killed a few elk).

However, there ARE times that I feel undergunned with the 7mm-08 and that is when I'm in an area with lot's of bear(Ursus arctos horribilis). At those times my 7mm-08 is replaced with my 9.3x62. Maybe I'm kidding myself but I FEEL a whole lot safer with the mauser in my hands.

In response to the ongoing bullet debate above...

Most bullets will do the job most of the time (probably 85%). While guiding in the NWT just shy of the arctic circle, I had a hunter come up carrying a 7 STW loaded with..........160 gr Sierra BT's. *GASP* Well, as it turns out, he took two (2) nice bulls at about 400 lbs a piece, each with one shot and each shot broke both scapula. We found one bullet mushroomed under the far side hide, and the other may very well still be flying. In this case, the cup-n-core boat tails did the job in spades. HOWEVER, if it were my $5000 for a 5 day hunt, I sure as hell wouldn't risk that 15% chance that my bullet would blow up on the shoulder, not penetrate to the far side of the thoracic cavity, and leave me with a hell of a hike over rock and boggy tundra to chase the poor thing down. That's why I shoot TSX's, even for deer. YES, I've recovered TSX bullets from deer, 2 of them to be exact. Both times the bullets penetrated diagonally from stem to stern, broke femur and humerus, and were found just under the skin. Both times, the bullets were fired in an attempt to stop (and did so quite well might I add) a running animal that somebody shot and wounded. Both animals crumpled at the shot. So, while I could get by with a Sierra BT for MOST of my hunting, the sad truth of the matter is that things don't always go as planned. I hate to think of what may have happened to those two deer had I not been shooting a TSX, yes, even for deer.

Happy Hunting

My kills of elk are with a bow, so does that make my opinion void too? I can't believe now a days a 308 and 06 are not enough gun and 500+ shots are the norm. Too much internet reading. I saw a kid drop a oryx last year with a 308 and Walmart 150 Coreloks just as fast as my buddies 338WM. On another note I love my 338WM, but have yet to kill with it. Good hunting all!

This has been a very interesting thread.
I bought a Ruger 77 MkII in 338win last summer, and I really enjoy shooting it. It seems to like the 225gr Nosler partition at 2800fps.
To me, the recoil is considerably less than my favorite 338, my 340Wby.
I have not killed anything with the 338winny yet, but I look forward to doing so.
Again, a very informative thread.

After shooting a bunch of 338s over the years and fewer 340s I feel (notice I didn't say "believe") that the difference in recoil is less than the difference in stock design (both drop at the comb and surface area of the butt of the stock and the presence or absence of a good pad) makes. I know other's experience may differ because recoil is such a subjective thing but the same cartridge in different rifles can feel significantly different due to the above factors. Having said that it is still significant. But this is the reason I went to a 340 instead of the 338-it gives a bit more steam but in the "properly" designed stock not much different recoil in my experience. I bet it's kinder than Rick's 7.5 lb 338 although Rick put a proper handle on his too and I don't think I'd like a 340 at that weight.

My 340 is just at 8.5 lbs going out the door; it has a classic, Brown Prec stock with a Pach pad. It's a good whomp no doubt and I too am getting tired of carrying it in the mountains but because I've had such good luck with it I am honestly conflicted over it. All the elk I've taken, granted, could have been taken with smaller cartridges..with the exception of one perhaps two where the circumstances were perfect for a "big" cartridge. The trouble is that might be the shot you get in a week of hunting. It was in this case.

Anyway, just my observations.

I like tall women too.

Gdv

I really do love my 338wm. It is a ruger tang safety. It weights in at just over 8 Lb fully loaded with the band around the stock that holds 6 rounds. I have never had any problems dealing with the recoil. I use 225 hornady interlocks loaded to max with h4831. No offence to those who have issues with the recoil it is just not an issue for me. tom

In Colorado it would be illegal to shoot an animal someone else had wounded unless you had a valid license. Which means I won't be stopping anyone else's game. But the channce that I might have to stop one *** I *** wounded is the reason why I buy premium bullets.

So far I've never needed a better bullet than I shot and hope to keep it that way.

Hunts, I love the 7mm-08 and it's my personal minimum for elk. I'd carry one elk hunting if I had to. I've brought one to elk camp as a backup (with 150-gn NP's) However, I'd feel like I'd have to put shot angle and range limitations on myself that would make me... less than warm and fuzzy.

30-06 and the right bullets get me into the beginnings of warm and fuzzy territory... .338 WM gets me solidly there.

I like the warm and fuzzies on an elk camp that is so short, intense, and important to me.

Heh heh.

-jeff

Jeff,

Can't explain why but I've owned 3 different .30-06's and none of them impressed me as more effective on game than my 7mm-08. I've killed two bison with the 7mm and 140 TSX. It worked just fine.

Hunts-when you shot the buffs with the 7/08 where did you hit them?

Thx

Dober

Hey Jeff,
Congrads, I'm always happy for the guy that finds a nice shooting rifle he really likes. The 338 is an awesome elk round. ADs' statement is absolutely right on. I think of the 338 and 300 magnums about the same. They are great choices as long as they can be shot well from real field positions. 300 & 338 mags can karate chop the hell out of your collar bone from the prone position out of lite rifles. I have a few rifles that could compete in the UFC.
Eight years ago I bonked a lead cow over in a Central Oregon snow storm. I tracked the herd for a few hours and filled my tag with a single shot from a 165 partition out of 30-06. While I was working on her I hurd 4 or 5 shots. Walking out on a lower road I met the guy that had been doing all the shooting, from a browning bar in 338. He found blood but lost the track in the storm and never found the cow. Moral of the story; four poorly placed mags are always trumped by one well placed anything.
I have a hard time not ordering a xcr in 338 ultra. The only reason I haven't is because I just don't want to deal with all the abuse. A mans gotta know his limitations.

Hunts,

Nice! I love hearing stuff like that. I really like the .308 case; I currently have a 7mm-08 Mountain Rifle that I love, and a .358 Winchester compact bolt gun that's my main blacktail rig.

I'm hoping to try the TSX on meat, this fall. Sure has a following in these parts.

What I do know is that the 30-06, and by extension the .338 WM (since that the nominal reason for this thread) make a bigger hole than the 7-08, and that cannot be a bad thing on big animals.

But it's nice to hear such success stories from the "little" 7-08. I've got a 120-gn BT load worked up for mine that is bug-hole accurate and I am dang tempted to try it on a doe this year.

-jeff

Rogue, it's a pussycat, I swear! It's really no big deal. I don't know if it's the stock or the Limbsaver or the 26" barrel but an XCR in .338 Win Mag is NOT abusive to shoot. If it was, mine was headed back to the gunshop to go on the consignment rack post-haste because I will NOT own a rifle I can't handle, and I have a lot of faith in my 30-06.

Unless you mean the abuse you'd take on the Campfire for daring to say that a bigger hole is a good thing on elk!

(ducking for cover)

-jeff

J.O.-me thinks that Rogue was talking about a 338 RUM not the Winnie, or perhaps you already caught that.

There is a skosh bit of bump between those 2...grins

Dober

Oh I have a safe full of mags and about everything else. I've killed elk with 100 grain broadheads on up. If I get a shot this year it will be from a 7mm or 30 cal. Maybe something else, depending on my mood. I'm currently all out of 338's and don't see one in my near future. I do have a p17 begging for a new barrel in 340 weatherby or 358 STA, but I'd probably just as soon use the 280 for elk.

Oh- I see that now, that he typed RUM. Yeah, I have to advise AGAINST an XCR in .338 Ultra Mag. I think I already explained why on this thread. My much-seasoned gun buddy used the words "brutal" and "unworkable".

-jeff

Last weekend my bear hunting buddy got a heavy 5pt bull with a 100 broadhead and a lite carbon arrow. The shot placement wasn't even all that great. One hundred yard track and four 2 mile packs later it was meat in the freezer.

As my Dad would say, it would be funner than most fist fights and or divorces or Texas chili...

Dober

(side story years ago I called my smith and told him my new girlfriend wanted to start elk hunting with me. He said he had the perfect plan, a 5 lb 378 Wby without a brake. Guess he didn't think much of women going to elk camp...grins)

That's funny.

Mark,

One buff(young bull) took one behund the ear shot(outfitter recommended) at close range and then a finisher at 3' with the bull on the ground(mercy shot). The last bison was a large cow. First shot was behind the ear but I must have been off a bit as she jumped back up and shook it off. She took two more through the lungs after that. The two lungs shot bullets were recovered under the hide on the opposite side with perfect expansion and intact petals.

It would be very fair to argue that the 7mm-08 is a bit on the light side for bison. When they're running around in a pasture it's not much of a "hunt". That's for sure. They aren't going anywhere. I've had people tell me that they dispatch bison regularly with a .22-250 using the behind the ear shot. I've also heard of bison soaking up multiple hits from much bigger calibers when shot in the heart/lung area. Sounds alot like how a moose reacts. The animal can be dead for all intents and purposes, it just doesn't know it yet and then falls over.

In my limited experience I would have to say that really big animals, say over 900-1000 lbs, "rarely" go down quickly no matter how big the gun is unless you can knock out the CNS. They just aren't immediately impressed when hit in the heart/ lungs. These are just my opinions and observations.

The head shots are not interesting (just because most anything would work for that shot) but the penetration it showed on the rib shots is impressive!

-jeff

Allen: I agree with everything you said;all I ever said about the cartridge is that I have no need for it; because I have a 375 that :
a)weighs the same(8.5 lbs)
b)shoots as flat and as fast as a 338
c)is as accurate at any distance.

So I, me, personally never had a need for it. As to the recoil question, well ya it kicks, but in the Brown Precision stock it really is not that bad. I've shot it many, many times prone, with tight sling, etc. Recoil is heavier than a 338, but slower.

Hell I musta said six times the 338 is a great cartridge.But 338's and 375's are comparable cartridges. Why does anyone need both,is my point, so I just picked one; doesn't mean the other's no good, I just have no use for it..

But c'mon,(not directed at you ,Allen) perfect velocity level? So we can shoot marginal cup/core bullets? Why don't we all go back to lead spheres and push them at 1200 fps, another "perfect velocity level".

Jeff, I had a fellow try to sell me a Browning A bolt in .338 once. I shot it, handed it back, and never shot another. I own a .300 Win, a .300 WSM, and a .30-.338. None of them kicked like that thing did. I'm 37, was probably 20 at the time, and can shut my eyes and still feel it. I shot a Kriegoff 470 Nitro Express that wasn't that bad. In a light gun, ugh.

My very first rifle (21 years old) was a Sako Classic in .30 - 06, and I thought of re-barreling it to .330 - 06 a favorite of my gunsmith. I just never run into anything that big to use one on. I've read story after story about people shooting moose, elk, grizzly bears.... with the cartridge. The plus is plenty of power with less powder and recoil. I've heard it said by many a gun writer that the .338 is overpowered for N. American hunting and could replace the .375 Holland and Holland in Africa if they would ever lift the caliber restrictions.

Up in Maine where my Brother and the guys go up the Golden Road to hunt moose, black bear, and huge whitetails, they all use .308, and .30 - 06 carbines, like the little Remington pumps and semis. If it'll put a moose on it's butt, or blow a 250 pound black bear end over end, that's enough for me.

Bob,

Need? NEED? Since when did need have anything to do with it? Turn it around and why NOT a .338 Winchester, .340 Weatherby, .358 Norma Mag, 9.3x62, 9,.3x74R, .375 H&H and .375 Ruger, as somebody that I know well owns and uses? And why NOT throw in a .338 Federal and .358 Winchester and a wildcat or so in the same category? What is this stuff about need?

JB

Well said, Allen.

+1 on Allen's comments

My 338 was the first rifle that I really researched and bought with my hard earner dough, I was 17 at the time. Still have that rifle and it would be the last one to leave my safe if I ever had to sell them all. That rifle has made a believer out of many folks, I loan it out all the time and it seems to call the elk in and then they just tip over when they see it.

Of course, I hunted 13 years with it before killing anything with it. It was almost a joke, I'd let someone borrow it and I'd take my 300 Winnie, they'd shoot something that same day and I'd kill something with the 300, but never when I was packing the 338. It was saving up it's mojo for the moose in my avatar, 200 yards, 1 shot and a 10 yard track from there. The 338 just plain works.

J

Must be the stock, or something, is all I can come up with. My XCR simply does not kick that hard. I'm no masochist; my 45/70 Guide Gun, for instance, or my 12-ga 3.5" mag turkey gun, really are unpleasant to shoot. My .338 is lightweight and is not at ALL unpleasant to shoot. I think you'd agree if you fired it.

-jeff

Hey Bob,

I for one realize that you know the .338 is a fine caliber; you've just made another choice for your heavy rifle and a good choice, too, it sounds like.

We're all just splitting hairs here... as the excitement mounts and huntin' gets closer!

My intent was simply to pay homage to my rifle, which is excellent and is making me a Very Happy Camper with it's stability, moderate recoil, accuracy, and overall trustworthiness. The fact that it's a very capable killer of very large animals is a huge bonus!

-jeff

I agree the .338 WM is a good round - for those that can shoot it well.

That said, I do have a .338 - .33 WCF to be exact which is a nice round to use in bush country where the ranges will be short. Some day I may try the 338 WM when I'm looking for new things to experience.

Jeff, I admire you're enthusiasm in "hosting" this thread. I got my .338 out of the safe to photograph for other reasons so I thought I'd take a few for your thread too. If you've ever searched for attractive Ruger 77 wood, you'll know why I snapped up this one when I found it. It's even prettier in person, as I'm not very good at driving my digital camera.

Now a 33 WCF would be a way cool round.

I wish Marlin would do one with a square tube at about 19".

Now that would fill a niche need for me...grins

Dober

(enough of this I am heading to the hill, rips some lips, hunt for birds and bruins)

Better late than never, I guess.
I favor light rifles. Nothing over 8 lbs. empty. 7 lbs. is better.
I also have learned over the years that I shoot better, especially when under stress, with a lighter kicking round.
Above all, I've seen lots of elk class stuff killed. If you need to make a "giant killer" out of a standard .270, '06, or a .308 class of cartriage, you need to go to the premiumu bullets. They go a long ways in making this happen.
I don't own a .338 WM. Simply because they don't offer enough to me. Light rifles not only kick harder, but they kick faster as well. It's the "faster" that gets to me worse than the overall recoil. Don't get me wrong. I've hunted with them, I've seen them in action and I've shot several.
But, the bottom line is that I know few who have or do use them that can shoot one really well. I don't kid myself that I'm one of those.
One of the more fascinating comments I've ever read was by a guy named Les Bowman who used to guide in the Wyo/Colorado area. He wrote once in an article not too long after the .338 came out that his hunters using the .243/6mm Rem. rds. had a better record on elk than his hunters with the .338 WM.
"A man has got to know his limitations." E

Great points E. My .338 pictured weights 9lbs on the nose BEFORE ammo and sling. That's probably why it's so easy to shoot. But, it does start to feel heavy after a few days in the mountains.

Thing about these discussions is that many fail to acknowledge EVERY decision in favor of one cartridge/rifle over another is a compromise including the 338 WM.

It's all well and good to proclaim the 338 WM is a "Wonderful And Mighty" cartridge. I've probably got as much or more experience with the round as many expressing undying love here. However, the 340 Wby is all that and more... and the 338 RUM is all that and more squared, and the 378 Wby is more than any of them, and...

Using the logic of some expressed here, why not use the 338 RUM at least?

Course the answer is recoil and rifle weight. In that line of thinking, I'd also wager most of the 338's mentioned on this thread come in 8.75 - 9lbs all up. A 9lb 338 with a decent tube is a pussycat to shoot IME.

Were I inclined anymore to carry an 8.5 lb rifle it'd be a 338 WM since it seems pointless to use a heavy rifle in a "standard" chambering... might as well get a little extra thump for the effort of carrying it.

Since I like 7.5lb rifles and can't shoot a 7.5 lb 338 consistently well I make my cartridge compromise differently and use a 30-06. I just haven't seen enough real difference between the two. Wreck the lungs and chit dies. And, since a real hunting rifle is carried more than shot, I'll take the 7.5 lb 30-06 thank you!

Would add, the 30-06 is a Wonderful And Mighty round in its own right and really a lot more cartridge than needed for most of the game it's used for (WT deer).

It's nice to have choices, lets just be honest about all the variables...

. My Kimber 98 in 338 Winchester mag. is not a problem, even off the bench . I've taken it to the range to compare point of impacts between several loadings up to 250 grain Federal loads, (including Federal 'heavy magnum' loads). I shot up more than forty rounds and only began noticing a bit of discomfort near the sessions end. I had no bruising at all. Now the Kimber with a Bushnell scope-chief 1.5-6 scope mounted is certainly no lightweight! I'd GUESS it at 9.5lbs, at least it feels like a real chunk to me, I'm used to favoring my Brown precision "High Country" in 284 Winchester, which barely makes 6.5 lbs with 2-8 Bushnell compact scope. I'd much rather have a 338 with a kevlar lightweight stock,22" barrel of "light" sporter contour and a Leupold 2-7X33 scope mounted up to try for 7.5 all up. This recoil talk would give a fellow a flinch if he never had one, the 338 just ain't all that bad. Hold the rifle properly, squeeze off your shot, in the field with your sights on game, you'll likely never even feel any recoil, and maybe not even hear the muzzle blast! I'm a 160 lb. 65 year old fellow, so it isn't like my mass soaks it all up. I've fired 416 Weatherby magnums that were nasty off a bench, and wouldn't be an option for me to choose for a prone position, but off hand, or kneeling, or even in a sitting position my body rolls with it sufficiently to allow me to consistently squeeze off subsequent shots with out undue timidity. BUCK up, practice often, shoot more off hand style and I'd bet there'd be a lot less complaint about recoil sensitivity.
....When I was a youth of 21 years Remington came out with the sexiest rifle I'd ever seen, the model 600 magnum. I bought one in the then new 350 Rem mag. That little gun could'a scarred me for life! I recall that it rung my bell so severely that my ears rang for a couple hours and I thought it had broke my collar bone! As much as I loved it's sexy look, I traded it off at trader Tex's swap shop, and stayed with my sporterized Swedish Mauser model 94 in 6.5X55.(that little gun had enough muzzle blast of it's own!......
......Finaly , if recoil is that much an issue swap to Nosler 210 grain partiction bullets with the 338. This load still has wonderful wallop on the biggest of North America's game, but is a scant step up from 30/06 boom & bluster.

How many, all-up 7.5 lb 338's have you shot?

Like I said, have owned six 338's that ranged in weight from 7.75 to 9.5 lbs... the two extremes aren't the same.

As to not feeling recoil in the field, as the kids say "well, duh"!

Point is, doing load development etc., requires bench time and a 7.5 lb 338 isn't much fun at the bench... develop a flinch at the bench and it'll show up in the field.

But then I'm a whimp...

I shoot a 338 Win Mag for everything anymore. I have other guns, especially a 30-06 that I'm real partial too. But, when the leaves start to fall, and that first frost hits, my Model 70 SS Classic chambered in 338 Win Mag is the one that gets grabbed. For everything. Lately that's been quite a few deer. Is it to much gun for them? I guess so... But I don't care. I use 210 Noslers for everything, and haven't seen any reason to change. I've worked up a bunch of different loads for it, and another Model 70 338 I have, but I never use them.

I guess as I've gotten older, I know that these years right now are the best years I'll have hunting. Soon, age will become a factor. I'll fiddle around with other guns when I can't get around as well as I can right now.

My SS Classic weighs 8.43lbs. without the sling. The sling is never on the gun while I'm hunting with it, but I have it with me at all times. It was weighed on a Hobart Quantum counter scale that's dead on. That weight doesn't bother me at all, and I don't like a rifle much lighter than that.

I've used two calibers extensively for most of my hunting. A 300 Weatherby, and the 338 Win Mag. I thought the Weatherby's recoil was more severe. The 338 kicks, but I don't consider the gun a bench gun. I shoot it enough to stay comfortable with it, and that's it. I'd rather shoot my .223 off the bench.

I think the 338 kills a little better than the 300, but both hit like the Hammer of Thor.

The 338 Win Mag has become my favorite cartridge the last few years. Is it really necessary to use such a large caliber? No, but I drive a F-350 too! I guess I'm just funny that way.

The 338 sure works good for me, as would a number of other cartridges if I had a mind to use them...

Good points all.

I'll have to weigh my XCR sometime. I don't know what it weighs, with the 2.5x8 Loopy on Loopy mounts... other than that it's not heavy.

-jeff

JB: I know, but I've owned so many rifles and I loved them all (including my 338's, a couple of which I wish I had back); but after awhile,it just gets to "burn-out" with all the overlap in calibers, not to mention the fact that (and I'm not trying to start an argument here), I have a hard time seeing the difference between how certain categories of cartridge perform on game; plus if you tend to be "obsessive/compulsive" (me) about how they perform,function,loads, etc., it can be burn-out in short order, dealing with SO MANY!!!! I have a life outside the rifle range (I think).

So, I figured above 30 caliber I wanted ONE cartridge that would cover the biggest territory, here, and Africa when I go.A lightweight 375 was it, since by handloading I could get it to do anything a 338,358 Norma, etc,etc could.Plus, I guess everyone agrees it'll work in Africa,too.

I really wish I could have the hunting opportunity of some on here so I could justify many more rifles.

Joel, I remember the arrival of my all-time 338 Win. Mag. a few years ago. When it was finally done and I had it in my hands, I was about two days away from a Texas deer and hog hunt, and I was so much wanting to hunt with it that I grabbed some Federal 210 Nosler Partition factory loads off the shelf, rushed out to the range, sighted the rifle in, and a day later jumped on a plane.

In camp, one of the older hunters found out that I was hunting with a 338 and he looked at me like I was even crazier than I actually am. The funny part was, those 210 Noslers dropped everything dramatically stone-dead, and going by the autopsies, they did less damage than a 130 would have out of a 270 or a 150 out of a 30-06. Was the 338 "too big" for the task at hand?

Not that I could see! Really, the 338 is only too big if you can't shoot it, or if you simply want or need to carry a lighter rifle of lighter recoil.

I've come close to choosing to hunt mule deer this year with that now well-blooded #1-favorite 338 Win. Mag. of mine, but I'm taking the 270 Win. instead, simply because it shoots flatter, kicks less, and it's shorter and lighter to carry. Such advantages are not lost on me, either, and I've been a 270 fan for many years as well.........

I'll take the 338 elk hunting later this season, as I have for the last three years straight, plus spring bear next season, etc.

AD

While I loaded a variety of bullets in the 338, I only killed game with the 210 partition... it ironed out everything I ever used it on including a bull elk right in the keister.

Great bullet in the 338...

Did you get an exit, Brad?

I've never even tried the 210; it's just seems too... light. Obviously, it ain't! I went straight to the 225's.

I'd guess a guy could get some rippin' speeds with the 210...

-jeff

Generally you can get right at 3000 out of the 210, unless of course you load beyond 65,000 psi, which isn't uncommon.

In the .340 Weatherby you can get an easy 3150, which does indeed just about duplicate the trajectory of the 130-grain .270.

JB

At the risk of sounding like Dion and the Belmonts(remember them): Here's my story,it's sad but true.

Recognizing what a cool thing a nice 338 in a rifle that's not too heavy would be. And wanting a contolled feed action because...... well just because.

I bought a 90s vintage Model 70 Supergrade and was cool except it would not shoot anything(trust me I tried)in less tham 2 inches at 100 yards. So when a dealer friend took in a nice Dakota in 338,we traded and it shot......just as bad.


I traded it for a shotgun and found a nice belgium Brwning FN Safari grade rifle and had to have it and it shot.......just as bad.


I can shoot little groups with my 300 win mag or my 375H&H so I don't think recoil is messing up my shooting. I know it's all just been luck of the draw but it seem that 338 rifles just keep pooping in my easter basket. You know,that sinking feeling when something you really wanted dissapponts you to the point of exasperation.

Right now I have several rifles that shoot great that bracket the 338. I've got a 35 Whelen that a real shooter and and the 375 shoots good too. Heck I've even got a 330 Dakota that shoots half inch with favored loads but it weighs nearly 12 pounds scoped and is too heavy for the mountains.

So should I send the Browning off to see if I can get her to shoot or keep trading guns on the assumption of getting lucky sooner or later? Or do you get by with other rifles that are a little bigger or smaller?

I'm thinking about a Ruger Hawkeye in stainless synthetic. If it doesn't group I'll have somebody put it in a nice McMillan and accurize it.What does that sound like to you guys?

Britt

Which reminds me of one of my favorite .338 stories. I was hunting caribiou and moose in Alaska, about a decade ago. Several of us were sitting around the fire one evening and the 18-year-old packer (a skinny kid from Ohio or someplace) started waxing eloquent on his sythtetic/stainless Model 70 .338, le. "Yeah, it's got a lot of knock-down power," he said, patting it fondly.

A couple of days later I killed a bull caribou with my own .338, using a 210 Partition, at about 300 yards. This was right at dusk, maybe a muile uphill from camp, so I gutted it and told the kid that night where it was, as i still had a moose to get.

The next night he took three trips to pack the caribou out, dragging into camp about the same time my guide and I dragged in from moose hunting. "Man, what did you shoot that caribou with?" the kid asked. "There was a hole in it THIS BIG!"

I smiled at him. "A .338."

It turned out, of course, that he had never shot anything with his .338 except a couple of paper targets.

JB

I'm constantly amazed at the quality of testimony given about the performance of cartridges by guys with little or no experience with same. I know guys around here, in the "Great State of Confusion", who shoot maybe one elk or one deer with a certain cartridge - and sometimes all they've managed to kill is paper - but they still think they've got it all figured out anyway. Just incredible!

Accuracy and velocity issues: The 338 Win. Mag. isn't always an easy cartridge to get to shoot well - not as easy as cartridges like the 308, 30-06, 270, 300 Winchester, or 375 H&H are - and some 338s will either not shoot well at all, or else they'll only shoot well with one bullet. Some 338s are also very slow, and struggle to make much over 2600 fps. with 250s, 2750 with 225s, or even 2850 with 210s. I've owned a number of 338s of various makes that struggled in all those areas, and some of the worst shooting, slowest 338s I've ever owned that had barrels that fouled like crazy were original pre-64 Model 70 'Alaskans', so the old pre-64 70 wasn't and isn't necessarily the sacred object that we're so often led to believe that it was.

BUT, a good 338 Win. Mag. with a good barrel and chamber CAN demonstrate incredible accuracy, and any 338 that's accurate with a variety of bullets, unfussy, consistent, AND fast should be shot sparingly at the range, and reserved mostly for actual hunting. My #1 338 Win. Mag. shoots like a varmint rifle with 210 and 250 gr. Nosler Partitions as well as 225 North Forks and 225 Barnes TSXs, plus it's very fast, and I don't shoot it much anymore. I save it for hunting and practice with other rifles for the most part......

AD

I've killed plenty of elk with the standard calibers just fine, I also limited my shots with them. I don't with the 338.

Allen: Mine were Douglas and Kreiger barrels, and one pre-64 M70, which was the least accurate, but still pretty good!

The custom barreled rifles were very accurate; I always found the round easy to get to shoot well.

One of the most surprising was an out-of-box Ruger that was very well-behaved;this was back when Rugers were known for,well, variable accuracy, but this was one of the good ones.Like the 375, the cartridge is a good shooter. So is the 340 Weatherby.

Good point Allen but keep in mind alot of us hunt with friends that carry other cartridges and we can draw conclusions from their experiences while we are on safari. For example, I've never killed anything with a 300Wtby but I have the dies and have loaded for two different rifles owned by hunting buddies. I have also watched several head of game killed by my friends using their Weatherbys. Does that count as experience? I've also been in on 15+ black bear kills over the years, some of them over hounds and with a variety of cartridges. Does that count as experience? I watched a good friend of mine shoot a 600lb bull moose in WY with his '06 from a dirt road, kinda boring really. Does that count as experience? I watched another moose shot by another friend using his 338WM out of his camper door, does that count? (he hit him right in the neck bone, instant dirt nap).

As Elmer would say, "Hell, I was there!"

Me too!

MtnHtr

Accuracy wise my fingings with the 33's has been quite the opposite of AD's and this does include the Win Mag.

Interesting how we all experience such differing things. And I only add this not to dispute what Allen said but just to mention my findings and how oddly opposite they are.

But, for me in working with the 338 WM, 338 WSM, 338/06, .340, 338/378 KT, the 338/378, the RUM and the Lapua I've personally found each and every one to be some of the easiest rounds to get to perk I've worked with.

Sub inch and normally in the .5 to .75" is the norm if the rig is put tother in an intelligent manner and the shooter is up to the task.

For me a good tube and a 33 is about model perfect when it comes to getting good accuracy.

Just my thoughts

Make it your best day!

Dober

Mark,

I only own one 338, it has been the easiest,most user friendly cartridge I have ever loaded for. One of those few that shoot
MOA from 180's to 250's. I tuck in a sand bag between me and the rifle when shooting it off the bench that helps a lot.

I bought a Stainless Model 70 338 four years ago that was a complete POS, it shot patterns instead of grups. I'm talking 3" five shots as about the best it ever did. Winchesters quality control missed out on it big time, for instance the bolt face was never machined.
A new stock, #4 Kreiger, and a bunch of good gunsmithing and now it shoots with the most accurate stuff I own. The first five after I got it back was 5/8s at 100 yards
I have another in a Ruger 77 that's 20 plus years old that shoots almost as well, but only with maximum loads and 250 gr Noslers. I haven't found anything else it likes.

My XCR has been super easy to load for... everything shoots, so far, and a couple loads REALLY shoot.

I cannot wait to try it on something. I have help dissect 3 elk, I believe, killed with a .338. All were decisive kills, for what that's worth...

-jeff

Allen,

If I had the funds I'd get him to put a rifle together for me as well. I've read most of your posts and others about the work he does.

Nice rifles. Whether they are in 300 Win Mag, or 338 Win Mag, or the 270 your using.

Good luck this year,
Joel Babcock

Here, here! Too many people dismiss the .30-06 as old and weak. Not hardly.

Expat

Yeah, it's true! As the various magnums have come out, the 30-06 has somehow gotten weaker. It's pretty funny. I would imagine, it could be really confusing to a new shooter. I mean, if a 300 magnum or super duper magnum kills deer.. then a 30-06 must somehow not kill them as well, right? Like maybe it doesn't make a hole all the way through or something?

I killed my first deer with a 30-06 and then decided it was too MUCH gun for how and where I hunt deer...

-jeff

Allen,

I've been lucky on the accuracy isssue with the 338's I've had.

The 3 Sako's have all been very easy to load for, fast & accurate.

The Kimber 89 that I have has never been fired so I can't attest to it's capabilities.

Here's an example of one of the Sako's.

MM

Britt-to my way of thinking a Hawkeye in a Bansner and cut to 23" would/could be about model perfect. Add a 6x36 Leo with the LR in it and rock on.

Grab some 210 TSX's and go forth and fill up an ark!

I'd be about astounded if didn't bug hole about right off.

Dober

I don't have a 338 but did some years ago but it now is a 340 which is not a wee group shooter but has good accuracy.

But I've reloaded for my buddy's Sako 338 for nie on two decades now. He shoots everything with the 210 Nos Part and IIRC IMR 4831 to get right to 3000 fps. It's maybe a 1.25" load. Anyway, we were talking last year about how he has taken somewhere in the vicinity of 13 head of game with the same number of shots in the last 8 eight years or so including a mule deer in the Bob at agout 400 yds. The one time he needed to shoot again was in Alberta where a bullwinkle took 2 or 3 250gr Nos Part's of Fed Premium (he wanted a heavier bullet for the moose) before he decided to amble over into the swamp and lay down.

He's sold on his 338 along with his Rem Ti 260. That's basically his battery as he's not a looney at all but just loves to hunt.

Gdv

There's no question that the 338 Win. Mag. CAN be incredibly accurate. I have two matching custom 338 Win. Mag. rifles in the safe, both with 1-10" Kreiger bbls. that shoot like varmint rifles with a variety of premium bullet loads.

I've had others that shot well too, including a Ruger 77 that I reworked and bedded myself, as well as a 1982 Model 70 that I also reworked and bedded. For stock factory rifles, those two were exceptional guns, and around 1987, when Remington came out with their annual 'Classic' in 338 Win., I picked one of those up, screwed the metal into an H-S stock, worked up a hot 210 Nosler handload that shot into an inch, and then went out and killed elk with it. Those were great rifles, and stupidly, I traded them off years ago.........

Others have been much more whimsical, and not nearly as forgiving. I had a custom 338 Win. Mag. made some 16 years ago that only shot well with Hornday 225s and acceptably well with Hornady 250s. It wouldn't shoot any other bullet well at all.

Some of the other 338s I've owned didn't shoot well with anything!

AD

Rifles are such a crap shoot (no pun... bad pun...). Some shoot like crap.

I've had box-stock factory rifles, like my XCR, that you just stick ammo in 'em and go shoot great groups. I've had semi-custom rifles that were a real PITA to get to shoot. Sure makes you appreciate the good ones!

One of my "good 'uns" is a 7mm-08 Mountain Rifle LSS. I've never really bonded with it, for some reason, but I can't exactly sell off a rifle that is THAT light and shoots THAT well right out of the box, now can I... It looks like my 12-year-old daughter may adopt it as her own come next season. This season ended up getting written off due to pre-teen hormonal surges; this spring when she needed to be shooting with me, she was such a superfreak that there was just no way I was putting a gun in her hands! Wow. Who knew. Anyway, it'll make a great gun for a younger person; moderate recoil and light up front and very accurate. Glad I didn't sell it or, as I almost did, rebarrel it with a very heavy barrel and turn it into a target gun.

I don't think I've ever traded off or sold a "shooter", except a Savage Tactical .308 that I just had no use for. But then I'm a young man at age 42, still plenty of opportunity, knock on wood, to make mistakes! :-)

-jeff

I have a Howa 1500 in .338 that gave me fits for some time. I replaced the Tupperware stock with a laminated Boyds JRS, then played with various bedding options before arriving at a full-bedded solution. What REALLY made the difference in this rifle, however, was the discovery that it truly preferred near max loads. Groups shrank from 2.5" to <1" when I got within a grain or two of max. (I'd been trying to work up .338-'06 level loads). Subsequent discussions with knowledgable folks have reinforced my discovery. Apparently, my experience isn't at all unique.

But when it's all done and perking properly...how sweet it is!

The other day, I was in the gunshop, and someone handed me a .338 RUM cartridge, factory loaded, to check out. I shook it and there was still room for more powder in there. What is WRONG with them people?

(My .338 likes to run hot, too)

-jeff

The answer is .375H&H ,up load it or down-load it!

What was the question again?

Bob

I just read thru this whole discussion, since I am a faithful 338 man. When I was younger I read everything that I could get my hands on that was written by Elmer Keith. He was a big proponent of the .33 caliber rifle.

A few years later, I decided it was time that I go elk hunting before I got too old and decrepit. I knew I was going to use a 338 and bought the first stainless rifle I'd ever owned, a Ruger MKII with the boat paddle synthetic stock. It shot decent groups, but beat me up so bad that I almost gave up on Elmer's beloved 338.

Then one day I ran across a Remington 700 in a gun shop. I decided to try it and couldn't trade off that Ruger fast enough. I'm still not sure what model this Remington is, it's got a tupperware stock, is ADL configuration, stainless metal work with a very rough finish. I mounted a Leupold 3-9x compact on it and never looked back.

This Remington is a pussycat compared to the Ruger, and even better since I swapped out the recoil pad for one of the new sorbathane pads. All I've ever shot in are Noslers, 200 gr BTs for deer and 250 gr Partitions for elk. Even though the Remington is a lot lighter than the Ruger, it's much more pleasant to shoot. I think the poor stock design on the Ruger with it's tiny hard rubber butt pad was the culprit.

I finally was able to go chase elk in Idaho in '93, I was unsuccessful but had the time of my life. A broken ankle, bad knees, a few surgeries, a divorce and a layoff have kept me from going back. But I've been using that Remington 338 for Kansas and Arkansas whitetails ever since, and killed between 45-50 with it. I haven't had to bloodtrail one yet. I can't say the same for deer shot with lesser calibers, I nearly lost the biggest deer of my life (325=350 # on the hoof) after putting a 130 grain 270 bullet thru it's lungs.

There is definitely less bloodshot meat with the 338 than with the 270 or other fast movers. A lot of that is probably due to bullet construction.

I have a lot of rifles now, but when deer season rolls around the 338 comes out of the safe and gets shot a time or two to check zero, then kills a deer or two for the freezer.

I just read through this entire thread and cannot really add much, except to say that my latest rifle just now being finished is a .375 H&H P-64 with a stubby bbl. built for packing in Grizzly country and I have a 9.3x62 being built on a FN action for a general purpose BC rifle.

I have sold off a WHACK of guns and doubt that I will buy any more, I now have 25 big game rifles plus five more specialized ones. They range from .264WM to .45-70, but the largest number of rifles in one chambering I own are .338WMs, five of the twelve I have owned during the past 40 years.

IF, gawd forbid, horrible thought, I HAD to choose ONE rifle/cartridge for all my hunting here in BC, it would be my favourite P-64-.338WM using 250 NPs, absolutely no question.

I just spoke with D'arcy Echols about one of his Legend stocks for this rifle and intend to put one on it in the coming spring; this is as close to perfection as I ever expect to get.

I think Warhawk is onto something...

I was expecting brutal recoil when I bought my .338 a few years ago. When I shot it the first time, I almost felt like I had a squib load or something... it wasn't brutal! I don't think that's because I'm special or something, I think it's because my M700 XCR's stock handles the recoil really well.

The current magnum de jour in the Olsen gunsafe is a lightweight .325 and it seems to handle the recoil really well too.

Here's a question- the one gun I have that I would characterize as brutal is a Mossberg 835 Ultimag 12-ga turkey gun. With 3.5" magnum shells, it's brutal. Is this a case of poor stock design- IE, anyone have a 3.5" 12-ga that's not brutal?

-jeff

Jeff,
I bought a Benelli SBE back in the early 90's for waterfowling with steel shot and, while some claim the 3.5 shell is a killer in the recoil dept., I've never noticed it. The inertia driven system may be responsible for some recoil reduction in this shotgun. That being said, I've since found that with the new shotshells out there I'm killing birds just fine with a 3" shell. I haven't fired on of the big candlesticks in years.

Whip

I won't be using them again. The 3" will do just fine, I'm sure!

I think- have not measured it- that the LOP is too long on my Mossy. It's not a gun I've spent much time with.

-jeff

Just in from the woods where I filled a final doe tag to end my season. Today is the first time I've fired my .338 project rifle at game. Short story: I've discovered that the .338 WM will reliably handle whitetails (grin).

I'm shooting 250 Hornady SP pushed by 70.5 H4831. This load prints about an inch (the normal 3 shots @ 100 yards) if I do my part. Today's shot was from a measured 90 yards off a steep ridge with about 45 degree down angle. I waited until the doe turned broadside. Unfortunately, I pulled the shot a couple inches into her shoulders. I haven't skinned this deer yet, but the off shoulder is dangling. Too bad. I was really wanting to compare a clean lung shot with the .338 to deer taken with more traditional "deer" cartridges.

This rifle (reworked Howa 1500) sure works nicely. Handles well. Inspires confidence. I certainly don't NEED a .338 but we've already had the "need" discussion.

The best part of the story is, the deer went bang/flop on a two-track I could get to with my pick-up. Life is good.

With a big disclaimer because I've never actually done it, I do have a buddy who swears the .338 is an excellent deer rifle, loaded properly. You wouldn't want to load a 200-NBT at 3000 fps; but with heavier bullets and/or keeping the speed reasonable he claims minimal meat loss.. at least much less than it might seem from looking at the NAME of the cartridge!

-jeff

Actually the .338 with a 200 Ballistic Tip at 3000 or so is an excellent deer rifle. That particular Ballistic Tip (now discontinued, by the way) was the first with the super-heavy jacket; in fact the jacket is about 60% of the bullet's weight.

I shot a pile of game with this bullet in the 1990's, ranging from 100 to 500 pounds, ranjung from springbok and doe whitetals to cow elk, bull caribou and gemsbok. I only recovered one, from a quartering-on shot at a bull gemsbok at 150-175 yards. It broke the near shoulder and spine (where it dips between the shoulders) and was recovered under the skin of the far ham, retaining about 60% of its weight. On smaller game it killed quickly and generally left a half-dollar sized exit hole.

The one 200-grain bullet you do NOT want to load up to 3000 in the .338 is the Speer. It is a little tender for such speeds, but works perfectly at around 2700 fps muzzle velocity--and kicks a lot less too. A great combo for woods deer, where you might get a shot at 250 yards or so across a clearing.

That's one of my favorites in the .338-06. I load them to about 2650.

Mule Deer: How does the .338 Accubond (225 gr.?...can't remember if there is more than one weight offered) compare with the old Ballistic Tip in terms of toughness?

Gaaah! They have discontinued the 200 NBT?! That's one of my pet loads for the .338... better stock up...

-jeff

Does Nosler offer an Accubond in 200 or 210gr for the 0.338" calibers?
That could be interesting...

There is indeed a 200 AB in .338... but it will be more expensive and won't punch holes in paper any better than my pet 200 NBT load, dang it!

-jeff

Well,
that sucks...
Hard to beat the BT's cost-wise(and accuracy)

Jeff, my 835 with 3.5" loads of BB does not kick anywhere near as violently as my 300RUM. And I have yet to meet a 338WM that comes close in the recoil department to my XCR RUM.

Hmm.. my Mossy must have a bad stock. Not surprised!

It's the only gun I've ever put a sandbag between it and my shoulder! It was killing me.

-jeff

Peter,

Nosler makes 200 and 225 AccuBonds in .338. I have seen the 225 used quite a bit on African plains game up to kudu, wildebeest and waterbuck in size. This was with Federal factory loads, and performance was very good. In fact the guy using that rifle and load had a string of 12 one-shot kills on his very first African safari before he missed a wildebeest (he was trying to shoot it in the head so there wouldn't be any holes in the hide, which he wanted for a rug). Though Allen Day (from here on the Campfire) reported very different results when he used the 225 .338 AB in Africa. But my experience has all been positive.

Thanks, M.D.

Peter

Jeff and others,

I have both an 835 3.5" turkey gun and a pre 64 model 70 in .338 mag.

The 3.5" turkey loads are in a class by themselves and I learned the hard way that I'd rather not use them.

I use 3" in the 835 now...and if you promise not to tell, the truth is, I shoot most of my turkeys with an old model 97 pump 16ga and #6 shot...Shhh.
I mean, come on, their just birds.....right...?

The .338 is an incredibly useful round as long as you respect it and put in the time to learn how to shoot it.

I bought mine to hunt elk here in Oregon. I hoped that if I hunted smart and got lucky, I'd get one opportunity to shoot a bull and I wanted the best tool I could find to seal the deal.

It has worked very well for me.

I've also learned that it is just a cartridge. That it just burns powder and only shoots bullets and that the most important piece of the shooting equation is the nut behind the trigger and proper bullet placement.

I spend less time at the "cartridge alter" these day and more time trying to find game to use them on.

I mean, except for the .270 WCF of course.......................

Shamelessly, BT

I hear tell that Nozler is bringing out the 338/250 Accu, I kind of have a hankering to give this one a go in my beloved .340.

Should be a heck of a yote round...grins

Dober

Better Moly Up! Those yotes can be pretty tenacious....laughin

BT

BT53,

Good post IMHO! That's about my feelings about the .338- whether right or wrong- that I find it to be a very shootable, enjoyable caliber that happens to provide a little bit of an edge (perceived or real) to this frustrated elk hunter... guys who have killed a lot of elk will sometimes say that if they don't have the perfect broadside shot angle then the bull gets to live that day... well, not trying to start a war here, but I've only had the chance to kill two bull elk in 6 years of hunting them... and both times I just had a spike tag in my wallet!! I do NOT want to have to let Mr. Big walk because I'm worried that my rifle won't penetrate to the vitals... so anyway, considering how very shootable the .338 is, it's a no-brainer. Even if it just makes me feel better in the woods... nothing wrong with that! :-)

As far as those dang 3.5"'s in an 835... mine literally put me on my butt one time. I had called in a jake, and he was coming, and I was crouched flatfooted behind a pile of blackberry bramble... he came around the corner and I put the red dot on his head at about 20 yards and BOOOOM! Well, imagine being crouched flatfooted and inviting that kind of recoil into your life... put me right on my butt!

Got the bird though..

-jeff

Hey Mark- any idea what the BC of that 250-gn AB is gonna be? Gotta be way up there... how fast will a .340 drive a 250-gn bullet, anyway? 2800 fps?

-jeff

The 338 could be a great all-around gun for me. Accept.. where are alle the cheap practice bullets? Closest I could find to "cheap" was 225grain Hornady bullet. $25 per 100.

I think the days of cheap ANY bullets are sadly fading into the rear-view mirror...

-jeff

I do own a Belgian BAR in .338 Win Mag that has never been in the field. It's a beautiful rifle, but for deer and elk hunting I have always used my 7MM Rem Mag. But even now after too many rotator cuff surgeries, I cannot see myself hunting with any rifle for all game but by .308 Win Featherweight.

Jeff-not sure what the BC will be but it will be big! You should come over this way and we'll take some guns out to Brads ranch and air them out to 1K.

Af or the speed of a 250 in a .340, will be tube length and tube dependent as well as loader style but 2850 is safe to say and some will push 3K. But day in and day out to me it is in that 2850-2900 range.

Dober

It's listed at 0.575 in the '08 catalog.

Any idea of when we can get our pawz on them?

Thx

Dober

Nope. I'll run by there and ask tomorrow.

The best "practice" bullet for .338 bores I have found is the 250 SGK, it will do an easy 2800 fps-mv out of all four of my 25"tubed P-64 Alaskans and shoots tiny groups over either RE-22 or H-4350. I use the 250 NP at the same velocity to hunt with, so, trajectory and recoil impetus are the same, a good idea for practice, IMO.

With a 26".340 Roy, I have loaded 250NPs to 2950 and much the same last summer in my bud's .338RUM; these ARE the BEST rounds for serious Elk hunting, IMO, IF, you shoot enough to master them, but, I find both the .338WM and my .375H&H rifles a bit easier to shoot.

I really cannot think of a better over-all cartridge than the .338WM, what is there that it CAN'T do, in terms of serious North American hunting?

Wow!
That is a slippery 'pill' for sure.
Ah well, another bullet I 'have' to try in my 340...
~sighs~

Ho Jeez, I would LOVE that! Here's hopin'...

-jeff

Mark- Be sure to run some of the new 160gr TTSX's out of that 340! I'm betting THAT would be a good 'yote round...

They would be if....I am a bit doubtful that they'll shoot. One never knows but. Guess we'll have to see.

Interesting note, the old 160X's would not shoot in my 340 neither would the 175 X's. But, in my 338/06 both bullets perked well especially the 160. R15 would run the 160's at 3047 fps in my 23" 338/06 by the way.

Dober



Dober

That speed doesn't surprise me, as I get almost 3100 with 150's from a 30-06 and the 338/06 will have a bigger "butt" to push on. "The bigger the cushion, the better the pushin', if you know what I mean!" (what movie is that from?)

You still have that 338/06 Dober? Sounds like a cool rifle!

-jeff

Yepper I do Jeff- it is packed and the lil lady is gonna try to blow up an elk with it in the morn.

Dober

Nice. A family rifle. Good luck to you and the lil lady! Hunting elk in December in Montana has got to rock.

-jeff

MOSSBERG 835 ultimag: hands down, the worst recoil I ever got. I think it's stock design. Sold mine.

.338 Winchester Magnum: best rifle I wish I never sold. It is a "gentle" magnum and mine was super accurate!

We are in 100% agreement! Maybe I should sell my 835.. but i'm not going to sell my .338 WM! But I'm with you on the 835. That thing is brutal.

-jeff

My cousin had a new 7MM something special bolt gun either a Winny or Browning with a muzzlebreak on it this past month while deer hunting. I didn't have time to look it over wish I had it was a Long Cartridge that looked to be brutal. He said when shot the kick was more like that of a .223 Rem. Thats what I'll be looking for in my next bolt rifle, till then the 30/30 still rules in my book. Have yet to need anything other the the old levergun even though I've shot plenty of critters with everything from the .223, 12ga slugs,.270, .308 and the 30.06. Say what you will but dead is still dead in my opinion.

Mine has a 24" Gaillard, with a 1/2 pound Merc reducer in the but of the Wildcat stock. It weighs 8 1/4 with a 2.5-8 on it and the recoil is negligible with full house 250 NP loads. I am going to try 225 Accubonds next.

HEAR, HEAR!

Yeah, sheesh, "need"! That's crazy talk!

Next thing you know they'll be saying we don't need a V-8 in our trucks. :-)

-jeff

I just had to bump this one back up to the top.

I have been shooting my 338 a bunch again lately, primarily at intermediate-long range (out to 600 yards). What a rifle, what a caliber!! The thing is just insanely accurate with 225-Accubonds.

It's a M700 XCR, stock except a Jewell trigger, and I just put a Zeiss 3.5x10 with the Rapid-Z 600 reticle on there. The RZ reticle matches the ballistics of the 225 Accubond perfectly; the 600 yard stadia it dead nuts at 600 yards. Pretty dang cool. I am hitting that 600-yard stell plate (vitals sized) easily about 75% of the time. To some of you, that's nothing; to me... wow.

.338 Win Mag is just a spectacular caliber. All hail. :-)

-jeff

Jeff, you bet it's great, and if you spend most of your time working with and hunting with that one rifle, you'll be way ahead when it comes time to press the trigger during elk season.

And since there are lots of other cartridges out there that are just as good in most ways, and some that are just possibly better, I think that's the best apprach no matter what cartridge any hunter shoots.

I know guys who have literally 'most every huntable species of the world's big game not only with the 338 Winchester, but also the 30-06, 300 Wby., 300 Win., 7mm Rem. Mag., 375 H&H, etc., and I haven't heard about any general complaints or about bullets that bounce off, either, and all of these guys are too busy professsionally to play this cartridge-of-the-month-club stuff, anyway. Their spare time is mostly spent hunting, pure and simple. You'll hear about bad bullet performance and poor shot-placement once in a while (you'll hear about those things from me, too) but very, very seldom do you hear about bad CARTRIDGE performance.

I was out shooting my 338 Win. Mag. yesterday morning, and it remains one of those cartridges that, for any number of rational and irrational/tangible and intangible reasons, I simply do my very best work with, and for me it's been that way since I bought my first 338 Win. Mag. back in 1980. But I'm at least as happy when I hunt with my 300 Win. Mag., and I can't tell any difference in killing power between the two.

That doesn't sound very imaginative now, does it?

AD

Right on Allen, I was hoping you'd show up again on this thread! I've noticed that you are back in love with the .338 again lately.

One of the things that I didn't mention that boggles my mind about my particular .338 is how impervious it is to variations in hold and rest. I take it up, toss it across the sandbag, and boom! A hole appears right where it did last time I did that.

Other rifles I have are very finicky about being sandbagged and held just so in order to be consistant as far as hitting the same exact POI.

This is making me want to go shoot it again today! I've shot long range the last 3 days in a row, mostly with my .325 and .338, and I'm really on a roll.

My face is all puffed up from an allergic reaction and my mouth ain't working right because of it... so I can't hardly do real estate other than keeping the deals I have in escrow serviced... so what the hell, maybe I WILL go shoot again today! My cell phone works up there... technically I'm workin', right? :-)

Yeehaw! Love the caliber. And I gotta put in a pitch for the Zeiss 3.5x10 I just put on it. It's too soon for me to be REALLY pimping the scope, but boy does that reticle work great for long range shooting.

These really are the good old days.

-jeff

That ability to maintain a zero, not be fussy in terms of hold, plus downrange-accuracy, balance, feel, feeding, etc., etc all have something to do with how solidly we get attached to a given rifle, and those things transend the exact cartridge you're shooting.

One reason I've been shooting a 338 Win. Mag. a lot lately is the fact that on my last Africa safari, my hunting partner wanted to take his 338 Win. Mag. for plainsgame, so I did the same, and having that same commonality of ammunition saved me a tremendous amount of grief, as it turned out. Shooting everything from whitetails and hogs to elk has been solid practice for everything else.

We're taking the same rifles again this year, and for the same reasons, plus last year during elk season, all three of us were shooting 338s.

Next year, though, I'm taking a 270 Win. and a 375 H&H when I head over with my wife, simply because I've always wanted to (in the spirit of Jack O'Connor), and if my 115 lb. bride decides to whack some stuff on her own, that 270 should fill the bill for her just fine without too much back-shove, and in the form of a nice, light, flat-shooting, beautifully-balanced rifle. As I've found out long ago, good 270 bullets don't bounce off, either!

AD

Dang it, you guys are going to have to stop all of this talk. You've almost got me on the 338WM bug!

Of course my new little 338Fed is not helping matters either

Have a Good One,

Reloader7RM

RL7RM, it's a GOOD bug bite to get! Get bitten, man!

I was afraid of the caliber. I've only been shooting high-powered rifles for... 9 years now I guess it is. You hear stories about the brutal recoil of a .338, and maybe some of the do; but not mine! When I bought it I told the guys at the gunshop to "go ahead, laugh at me now and get it over with, because I won't own a gun I can't shoot well and if this thing kicks the snot out of me, I'll be draggin' back tomorrow with my tail between my legs to trade it back in at a loss!" Or words to that effect.

So it was with some trepidation that I touched off that first round.

At the shot, I literally started laughing. No big deal, not even close to a big deal, no pain or bruises, no NUTHIN' except a big, friendly, push. Then, I noticed that this rifle was shooting even my initial practice loads into tiny little groups.

And so it began.

-jeff

A light 338Fed and normal weight 338WM are a great pair. Go ahead, give in to the "bug" you'll feel better in the end. I know I did.

RH

Hopefully we get a break in the cold temps and wind tomorrow. I want to go out and shoot the Kimber Montanas, 300WM vs. 338WM head to head. I want to see if there is a difference in their felt recoil. We'll see.

BigWhoop, which Montanas do you have again?

-jeff

Jeff,

What load are you using for the 225 gr AccuBond?
The load I was going to try first is IMR 4350, up to 71.5 gr with Federal 215 primers (convinced a friend to sell me 1000 <awfully hard to find right now>)

My relationship with my old Model 700 really improved once I replaced the old hard rubber recoil pad with a new LimbSaver.
Went from 20 rounds at the bench being the max, to 60-80 rounds a session with out bothering my shoulder at all.

Limbsavers are great...

My load is 74 grains of RL19 and a F215 mag primer. I think I set the bullet out towards the lands some so it's longer than SAAMI max OAL. In my opinion, everyone should at least try RL19 in their .338 Win Mag. It's like they were made for each other.

I don't remember where exactly 74 grains is in the charts, but, my guess is that's max or close to it (knowing me) so check the books and work up accordingly.

RL19 has been a stable, accurate, reliable, powder for me. I love the stuff. And that's coming from a guy who could just about otherwise get by with H4350 and be perfectly happy!

-jeff

Thanks Jeff.

Will give it a try.
Manual shows this load as max.

Jeff,
Those are Kimber Montanas.

Yeah, I figured it would right up there somewheres!

-jeff

I shot the 06 and the 338-06 for years, then when the first .338 Win. came out I bought one, and I have never looked back..It is the one most balanced caliber I have ever used for big game..The 210 gr. Nosler at 3005 FPS, and the 300 gr. Woodleigh at near 2500 FPS covers about anything..I have shot deer, elk, bison, cape buffalo and all of the African plainsgame with one or the other of these two loads..

I can't imagine a better caliber than the .338 Win. for hunting big game. I have no need for comparisons, serves no purpose...I still like the 30-06, 308, 7x57, 300 H&H and even the lowly 25-35!, so what?

The only reason I don't choose it as my "one rifle" on the interminable one-rifle threads is simply that I worry that when I'm old(er) and gray(er), the recoil could start to be a problem if I develop shoulder or neck problems.

Other than that I agree 100%. Especially since putting that Zeiss scope on mine, with their 600-yard reticle; with 225 Accubonds I can hardly miss out to 600 yards! On steel plates that is.

-jeff

Then just load it down a bit...

When that older, grayer day comes, simply go back to the .30-06 with 180s.

Expat

Yeah, that's sort of the plan I suppose!

-jeff

I have a 338WM and love it...this is my 4th 338 and I would not be without one...I use 225 Nosler Partitions in mine...I have 7mmRM and 300WM but have noticed that the 300WM kicks more than my 338WM...also the muzzle blast is worse...the 7mmRM also has more muzzle blast...but the 338 is my go to rifle...I am not getting a 264WM put together by PacNor and eagerly anticipate it.
All these guns are Ruger Hawkeyes...started with the 375 RM and was sold on it...so got the others...

-jeff

Jeff,

Finally had to break down and post on this thread as it has kept going on and I've really enjoyed watching your enthusiasm and obvious love affair for your 338! I wanted to add fuel to your 338 WM fire! My experience with the 338 WM as an elk thumper is usually during the rut here in Idaho when the bulls can occasionally come running at you and you need to take a frontal brisket shot and the larger frontal area on the 338 combined with the penetration gives me more confidence and does a number on these aggressive bulls !

The attached picture was a very heavy Selway �Suicide� herd bull that tried to run my wife over and she dumped him at 30 yards with a 225 Swift A-Frame at 2,950! This was September hunting during the rut before the wolves and lots of elk and for some crazy reason that year the bulls were more aggressive than I'd ever seen. The week earlier I had an almost identical experience in Meadow creek off the Selway. I had called a big bull in for her and we weren�t in a good vantage point for the shot, which can happen. When the bull came running towards us we didn�t see him until he was at about 10 yards away and she missed him at 5 yards with the shot going very high in the air!

So the next week we were in a different location and my wife was still a bit nervous from the previous week so I was glad when we had the 338 WM and the strong A-Frame to hit him coming straight at her.

Glad you feel comfortable with the recoil, as my threshold is a hot 225�s as the warm 250�s are a bit too much of a good thing at least for some of us without a muzzle brake. I�ve been using the 225 accubond and it is very accurate, flat shooting and lethal for elk. Lots of options and keep up the passion for this mighty round!

waha,

Elk hunting in self defense! I like it!

I've never even fired a 250-gn bullet out my my .338, though I have shot 250's from my buddies (ported) rifle. I don't see a need for a 250 for what I use it for. I would imagine that the recoil might get ap there a little...

-jeff

Thanks Jeff;;;;am now getting a 264 WinMag by PacNor...can;t type for beans...

I like my 416 Remington. As good as the 338 WM is, the 416 Remington is just that much better! Works for me!

I will hail the mighty win mag. been my hunting partner for 10 years now. I only have two of them but have been considering a .338 wildcat latly as a long range (1000 yard) rig. Im leaning tword the lapua or edge.

I hope it was obvious I was funnin'!

They've done two for me; you'll love it I bet.

Are you near the Gila, Jorge?

-jeff

I must of missed this one. ROTFLMAO

Now of heard it all gave me a chuckle though. Sweet kid.

Recoil of the 338WM is not that bad, what is all the fuss. Shoot a 378Roy, 458Lott & the like & your perception of recoil will take a different view!
By the way I wasn't going to get into you but considering you posted a very negative comment with NOTHING(trolling) to do with this genuine thread I thought it was called for. So right back at you.

Long live the mighty 338 Win Mag it's one of the best!!!



340

340

It's funny you mention that re the recoil. It is felt, but not enough to make it untolerable...assuming you have been shooting for a while and will put the time into shooting it.

At the range the other day, a young bloke was shooting a nice 308 and asked to have a shot of my 338wm, which I was more than happy to oblige. He had two shots, commented it gave a noticeably sharper kick and that was it. Then went and fired his 308 and said, this thing doesn't kick at all. It seemed to me to be nothing more than a little perspective.

For a guy that has been playing around with a 243 or mid range calibre to step up to a 338wm will have a lot more learning to do than the fella who has graduated his way up the calibres.

That's my 2 cents worth anyhow.

LowBC

Well I've used a 270 for 25 years on elk, shooting 150g Noslers, then switched to 150g A-Frames. Never lost one, had few run more than 20 yards, none further than 200 yards, most fell like lightning had hit them. Finally gave my .270 to my youngest son, so I upgraded to a CZ Safari Classic in 375 H&H. It doesn't kick that much, plan to shoot 250g A-Frames at 2700 fps (mild load) for elk this season. Should do the job as well as my .270 ... definitely a better bear gun though.



Chuck

recoil is a subjective thing.


kinda like fat girls, if you've dated some ton of fun types, a chunky girl can seem downright svelte.


some folks like .338's, some don't

I'm going to keep mine.

I heard that. I replaced my 338 with a 9.3 X 62 for the big stuff and now I tote a lighter rifle, get kicked much less, and the critters die with equal rapidity.

I'm happy.

You guys are not exactly hailing the wonderful and mighty .338 Winchester Magnum!

I'm just sayin'.

-jeff

Jeff

I'm hearing ya man, particularly now mine is shooting like it should.

Now comparing the 338 to a fat girl (I thought that was winchesters new cartidges). I like to think of the 338 as an Elle McPherson kind of girl...all the curves in the right place without being too big or too small Hot damn the 338 is the supermodel

LowBC

So what would you call the 338 RUM?

JD338

Two of my FAVORITES!

RH

The 338 win mag will be around long after the wsms and rums are listed in the obsolete section of the reloading guide. As long as I hunt elk I will do it with my .338 wm.

well, I best jump in. Have not hunted w/ my T3 Lite 338WM to date (new rifle), but been shooting paper tigers building handloads. And learning to trust an 8# Super Model that she won't hurt me.

I think I found your answer... guess you can actually have too much of a good thing.

Nothing wrong with a 338; good cartridge, but...As an elk cartridge(moose,African PG,etc) I'd rather have a 300 Win or Weatherby. Those animals are killed just as neatly with a big 30(or for that matter a big 7,etc,etc,) as with a 338.For anything bigger, I'd rather have 375....JMHO.

Opinions make horseraces...a lot of the 338's popularity is predicated on the notion that big game animals are hard to kill,which, at least in North America, is untrue...

Years ago, a trapper, Harvey Cardinal, was out on his trapline on northeastern B.C., working away when a nasty Grizzly attacked and killed him very dead. This brought the Fish and Wildlife guys into the situation and the bruin was tracked down and shot as per government ( and commonsense) policy.

I knew the guy who did most of the shooting and, much later, know some of Harvey's cousins on the Alberta side of the border. All of these people have LOTS of bush and Grizzly experience.

Well, the Grizzly took SEVERAL well-placed hits with a .375H&H rifle plus several with 12 Ga. slugs BEFORE he finally gave up and died. He weighed around 1200 lbs. and, IMO, there IS a difference between a .338WM-250 NP and any .308 bullet under these circumstances. The great .375 H&H, well, of course, BUT, it kicks MUCH harder in rifles of equal weight, at least I find this after owning/shooting 12 .338s and 7 .375s.

So, SOME North American animals ARE damm hard to kill and this is where the .338WM REALLY shines. Living among these bears alone where you MUST be in isolated places to earn your living tends to make one VERY conservative about cartridge choices and mine is the .338WM. However, I NEED my two .375 H&Hs, three 9.3s and could use a nice .358NM with 280 SAFs as well.........

Bob, there you go not hailing again. "All Hail!" Buck up, trooper! Toe the line!

I'm joking of course. My only comment, because I don't have any killing experience with 30's bigger than 30-06, is simply that the .338 Win Mag is pleasant to shoot, while the big 30's are often considered to be a bit on the "sharp" side.

I can only say that, indeed, 338 Win Mag is pleasant to shoot from a sporter-weight rifle. Did 20 rounds from field positions, mostly prone, just a couple days ago and could have done 50 more; it's a pussycat.

That might be equally true of the big 30's; dunno.

-jeff

The 338 is a true pleasure to use to me. The recoil is acceptable. I did have to learn how to hold it as it was my first magnum rifle.

I find my 300 magnums kick worse especially woth 200's as do 7 mags with 175's.

My light shotguns are much worse in my opinion.I use an Ithaca 37 Lightweight 3" 12 ga pump for a turkey/goose gun. It is no fun to sight in.

Not surprisingly I don't think of a 338 as kicking as badly as that does.

I dunno, Jeff; I've had a few 338's myself and with 250's those suckers kick.....they kick with anything but I get your point.One reason the round is not tough to handle with 210-225's is that it does not really go fast. It's a big 30/06,and there's nothing wrong with that!

Yes, Kute I do not disagree that once in a while,an animals' ability to absorb punishment can be pretty baffling; but hit correctly with a good bullet, they fold pretty quick.

We are fully and adequately armed with any number of cartridges and there is no doubt the 338 is among them! Seen how quick those pre 64's fly off the internet when one shows up for sale?

By the time brown bear enter the picture, I am ready to put up with the recoil of the 375H&H.I can tell you like 'em both!

Jeff
I know you have a 325 Montana and you say the recoil isn't bad at all. I have a 270 WSM and a 300 Win Mag in the Montana and the recoil isn't bad with either. My question is if you have had a chance to shoot a 338 WM in the Montana and if so how did the recoil compare? I have had several 338s over the years and am thinking of getting one in the Kimber Montana or waiting on the new Winchesters.

Bob, big annual two-day gunshow here today, I am NOT going to avoid temptation as I am saving for a new Toyota 4x4. But, the P-64 Alaskans in .338 NEVER appear for sale at these shows, I have seen only 4-5 in 25+ years of attendance.

They sell for premium prices and by "word of mouth" here and this is often to hardcore, very serious bushmen who KNOW their schitt after years of experience. I have a lot of guys asking when I will sell mine, well, maybe about the time that the Hillabeast embraces gun freedoms!

Having lived in upper-northwestern B.C. coastal wilderness solo, right where the largest Grizzlies roam, I like the .375 as well, but, I got tired of packing my "work gun" which was one, with Recknagels and a Clifton handle and went back to the .338s in Brown and Borden stocks. But, NOW I have ANOTHER .375, a chopped P-64 in a Micky stock and it is my FINAL backapcking rifle for Grizzly country.

I like 'em both, too, don't want to live with ONLY one rifle, gawd, that would be torture!

I have not, rdd, sorry!

Folks say the long action Kimbers are a little clunky, and while I think that's taking it a little too far, they certainly lack the "sprite" that makes the SA and WSM-action Montana's so special. So I'd say handle a LA Kimber if possible before ordering one.

I sure like my XCR in .338. That stock is fugly, but it sure handles recoil well, and is easy to hang onto when things get icy, and the XCR coating is for real...

-jeff

Now THATS what I'm talking about!
........and thats going to leave a mark.

JD338

Either works fine, but the .338 RUM will crush you (weight or recoil). The .338 Win Mag is easier on the body and just as much fun!

Kute: I tried to live with one rifle; can't be done
I WILL concede that you can only hunt with one at a time...

I KNOW, on my last post, 08/03/08, I SAID that my custom .375 "shorty" was my final Grizzly rifle and I MEANT it, as much as one of we "gunaholics" can.........

On 19/03/08, a mere ELEVEN days later, a buddy dropped by my house to show me a '64 vintage Browning Safari in .458WM and, YES, I did it! I now need the dropped mag, Recknagels and custom synthetic stock as well as a bbl. chop to 22" and there is ANOTHER Grizzly gun............

Do I need help??????

Yes, you do. There is a fella from MT that can provide good back-up for you, with his G33............

MtnHtr

Uh, actually, this rifle will back up my partner in NW B.C. on his/my Grizzly hunts when we get our draws. How we do this is each guy brings one rifle, with two scopes and each scope is sighted for one of us, so, both can use each rifle.

He will likely bring his custom .338RUM re-barreled with a sts Llija from an original Dana Campbell sts Mod. 70 in 7STW, I will bring this .458 with the custom additions. So, I will back his shots and he will back mine depending on whose tag we are trying to fill.

Both of us have a fair bit of experience in NW BC and this is not a place to pizz about with small bores or light bullets, especially in the coastal rain forest with bears that will weigh almost 3/4 of a ton in autumn condition. My buddy has hunted in Africa, Iran, Europe, various areas of North America and is a fine shot, but, he is pretty cautious around Grizzlies and so I found this an excuse to buy a rifle I have wanted for years.

The help I REALLY need is a HUGE bank account to buy MORE!!!!!

Kute: You are depraved and utterly hopeless.....welcome to the club

Warped, totally bent, what can I say.....I have looked for a reasonably priced, solid Safari Grade for YEARS and always find these $1500.00+ pristine specimens at gunshows or the hated short extractor ones.

THIS is 95+ % on the metal, VG stock and has this muzzlebrake, SO, I can trim the tube to 22"and do the other stuff W/O a problem, kinda like re-tubing a worn P-64 Fwt.-.264 to a 22" .338 that is of some actual use in B.C. Yeehaw, ya only live ONCE!!!

You couldn't exactly pass that one up, Kute! We'll vouch for you.

Heck, it's money in the bank, really. You'll sell it for more than you paid for it... or close... someday. And you get to use it in the meantime.

I think it's cool to buy guns that a guy has a real, pressing need for. I've put the brakes on HARD personally, because I have everything that I have a real, pressing need for... and a backup for each of them... and then a couple spares <g>. But quality HUNTS are calling me and I need to put my $$ in that direction.

You guys who lust after things like P-64 .338 WIn mags and Browning Safari Grade's have it tough. If one pops up you really have no choice in the matter. Gotta buy the sucker. When I was heavily involved in the vintage guitar and amp trade, and had a nice collection going (still do), it was the same way... something I've wanted for years and years comes up, pretty much gotta grab it because it could be years before another one pops up!

-jeff

Aha, you must be speaking about the fella who runs a G33 in 22/250.....gack gack gack gack

Dober

I have never owned a Browning Safari.....everytime I saw one I liked,I thought about the fact that I could have a pre64 for about the same dough,and the fantasy ended......

These must be built on something other than the A-bolt action, yeah?

-jeff

Bob-I well remember the lil gun shop in the town where I went to college had a "pencil barrel" 308 that I just simply lusted for. They had $350 on it but it may as well been 35K........

Made for a lot of good diversions from class to go and look at it however.

Someday, perhaps I'll still get one.

Dober

Mark:...or a pre64 m70 in 35 Remington for the same $350.00

Sucked being in college,except there were more women

Jeff: You are such an infidel sometimes....

Me? What'd I do? I'm just assuming that the older Safari-grade must be on a CRF action or else Kute wouldn't want one? I honestly don't know, it's a question.

Not trying to be an infidel... this time... :-)

College... women... mmmmmm....

-jeff

The Brownings from '59 to about '65 were fine CRF rifles, in two reciever sizes, standard Mauser and small ring. These were among the finest rifles of their time, superior in many respects to P-64s, but, of course, J'OC touted P-64s, so.......

Browning ALSO made a number of medium actioned rifles on Sako pf actions, these were OK, but, the QC was beginning to slip and then they brought out that abortion PF on the FN receiver and another great rifle bit the dust.

I have now had four Safaris, bought my first before I was 21 and used it as my "protection"for a three month solo stint on my first fire lookout in the Flathead over 40 years ago. It was an '.06 and I sold it for college money, I would pay a LOT to have that rifle back and I have an EXACT match to it, right to stock colour and grain, now. I traded a guy two old flyrods for that one, in near-new condition.

They are getting scarce, but, I would like a nice one of 1960 vintage in .338WM.....maybe next year......

Kute,
did you ever buy that Sako M85 in 338WM?
I am thinking hard about one(in 338WM), I have never owned or fired a Sako and they sound very nice indeed...

No, I decided not to as I wanted this .458 more AND I have a line on a very rare rifle I have wanted for years, so, am saving my money.......

I decided that the Sako-85 in .338WM is a tad too heavy for me, in that chambering and so won't get one.

I really am kinda a Mauser guy.

I see...
That 458 sounds like fun, Kute.
Enjoy!

Jeff: Asked and answered below......

338WM-vs-270Win, middlin' weight for the cartridge Accubonds, both rifles weigh the same 8# +/- ready to hunt. I'm liken' the Mighty 338WM. (please excuse the column offsets, c/p from my spreadsheet)

Rifle Tikka T3 Lite 24" BBL
Cartridge 338 Winchester Magnum
Bullet WT/BC Nosler #54357 225gr Accubond .550bc xxxsd
Load Data 75.5gr RL19, 3.34oal, -.150gage, WLRM primer
Muzzle Velocity 2810fps
Scope C/L 1.6"
Note: .63" Three Shot Group
Yardage Trajectory Velocity Energy
0 -1.6 2811 3949
50 0.6 2723 3709
100 1.7 2638 3480
150 1.5 2556 3263
200 0 2474 3058
250 -2.9 2395 2863
300 -7.3 2316 2680
350 -13.3 2241 2506
400 -21.1 2165 2342
450 -30.7 2093 2187
500 -42.3 2021 2041
550 -56 1952 1903
600 -72 1883 1774

Rifle Tikka T3 Lite 22" BBL
Cartridge 270 Winchester
Bullet WT/BC Nosler #54765 140gr Accubond .496bc .261sd
Load Data 54.3gr IMR4350, 3.34oal, -.108gage, Rem9 1/2 primer
Muzzle Velocity 2910fps
Scope C/L 1.6"
Note: .63" Three Shot Group
Yardage Trajectory Velocity Energy
0 -1.6 2910 2633
50 0.5 2812 2459
100 1.5 2717 2294
150 1.4 2622 2137
200 0 2530 1990
250 -2.8 2441 1850
300 -6.9 2352 1720
350 -12.7 2267 1597
400 -20.2 2185 1482
450 -29.4 2103 1374
500 -40.7 2024 1273
550 -54 1946 1178
600 -69.7 1873 1090

Nice!

-jeff

Jeff: I'm sorry, you really did not know what they were...I was yankin'your chain.... They were very nice FN Mauser rifles,some also on Sakos; nice wood stocks,attractively and pretty carefully assembled.Some were very elaborately engraved. etc.

Just had to bump this back up (is that allowed with your own posts?)... was shooting my .338 today after giving it a month or so off and DAMN!! Friggin' awesome, the only way to put it. Awesome accuracy, lets you know you just fired a HP rifle, and makes a real impression on steel plates to waaay out there.

All Hail.

You really need to fire up some 250 SMK's or Accu's for real steel whackin music!

Dober

Yeah! I'm shooting 225's, 250's would have to be mo' betta!

A little more of the "youch" factor though I imagine. Or, let's call it the Yee-HAW"! factor <g>.

In my elk camp there is anything from a .280 Rem to a .458. All get the job done( if the shooter does there part). I have a .338's in the past. But for some reason I still go back to the 300 Win. Not sure why. A good choice.

I'm a fan of the 338 and have shot some elk with 308's and '06's. Those both did fine and I would use them again.

I think one of the 300 mags would be dandy too. Especially with a 200 grain Nosler in it. I even own two. They are in the properly designed .300 short mag also known as the .308 Norma.

Heck I even have a Whelen.

It's just that when I step out of the tent my hand grabs the 338. I know how well it works and I am so satisfied I don't care to experiment I guess.

It gets a bull's attention like nothing I have used before. I would call that wonderful.

I've only seen two bulls killed with one, but both went down on the spot. I like that!

-jeff

Wow! 26 pages of repetition, all hail the .338....

I have used the .338 since its first year of production, it is the best N.A. big game cartridge out there IMO...I shoot the 210 Noslers at 3003 FPS av. and the 300 gr. Woodlighs at 2500 FPS, thats pretty hard to compete with for an all around caliber. I have used this caliber in Africa on all plainsgame and on several buffalo, In the USA on elk, deer and maybe an antelope or two?? I have shot Bison, bear, and Caribou with it...It has never failed me or even disapointed me...

There are a lot of other good calibers out there, but none are any better...not even my pet .375 H&H......

I just found this thread.. Wow lots of info on the .338. I admit I don't have any experience with it but have been thinking about adding one to the arsenal (before Obama bans it). Why not the .338 RUM? If you reload can you not tailor down the load? I thought I heard the RUM case was better designed that the original WM design? Am I way off base?

I think you're a ways off base, yeah.

There's a limit to how far you can download without getting into safety problems and sometimes accuracy problems. You can also wind up with collapsed case shoulders because there wasn't quite enough pressure to seal the neck during firing.

I had a .338 RUM for a while. On paper it was a good choice. It didn't work out.

I've had 3 sporters in .338 Win Mag. I'm on my 4th .375 H&H. The current .375 is in the same package my .338 RUM was in, the Remington 700 XCR.

Figure it like this. The .338 Win Mag, with the right bullets and an accurate platform, is at least a 500 yard cartridge. Dead is dead. The .338 RUM doesn't make them more dead. It's not more forgiving of sloppy shots. It just doesn't add anything at all until the .338 Winchester has run out of velocity to expand bullets downrange. 500 yards is a long shot. Reliable hits at that range require finessing the rifle and a lot of practice. You simply cannot finesse a rifle with the recoil level of the 700 XCR in .338 RUM. It will hurt you, hurt you bad.

I had two scopes, a Leupold 3-9X and their 2.5-8X which I tried on the .338 RUM. I've had both scopes a long time and had them on a number of rifles. I couldn't keep them off my forehead shooting normally from the bench. Standing was worse yet. The 3-9X is currently on my XCR .375 H&H, I've put hundreds of rounds through that, and not been so much as tapped by the scope. The .338 RUM typically hit me 2 out of 10 from ideal positions (positions I could not use for hunting) and would hit me every shot from hunting positions. That's a flinch maker. That's not the kind of thing you can do while finessing a gun past 500 yards.

What I'd like to see is Remington reintroduce the .338 RUM in a Sendero or maybe something a bit heavier yet.

Tom

Thanks, that was I looking for. I do not have any experience with the .338 family, your answer helped!

Eyeing an .338 WM XCR for $800.... Hoping someone does not beat me to the punch.... : )

Hey Tom,

Agreed on all points. Just as a data point- they DO offer the 338 RUM in the Sendero... at least they did when I was buying my Sendero II a while back. Pretty sure anyway <g>. I didn't really consider that chambering because, as you say, precision requires finesse which is sort of killed by brutal recoil.

hekin, my XCR in .338 is probably my "best" rifle. By best I mean in terms of stability across both several years of shooting, and stability across many different rests and sandbags and so on... sucker just SHOOTS. Could be an anomoly (though Tom's .338 RUM XCR shot really, really well as it was whackin' him to death, right Tom <g>?).

In the XCR stock I find the .338 WM to be extremely shootable...

Go forth and purchase! :-)

I had a 338RUM in the old Sendero.
The recoil was fairly stout(250gr @2900fps) -I should think a 338RUM in something as light as an XCR would be brutal.

I had one I sold it to get my 300 win back. Now aim looking for a .338 once more. Now Iam not saying the 300 wont do ANYTHING I ask of it but having a 338 in camp just feels right. I have two buddys that shoot them. BOOM dead critter......

Thank God! some guys who don't shoot 243s! I have owned several 338s and they have always done the job. And the recoil is not bad with lighter bullets. My current 340 is a Gale McMillian custom
serial # is like 072 based on a mdl 700 action. I have a Brake on it wish I didn't. the guys in camp say "we knew that was you, Your rifle goes BOOM G--Damit!" the elk hate it! never had to shoot one twice or for that matter had to track one shot with a 338. I shoot 210 partition over 4350 right at 3150 + or minus with the 340. I have never had a lousy shooter in a .338 or 340. T/C,McMillian,tikka,sako,weatherby All shot really well.
Jeff I am glas to hear that XRC shoots so well. I was eyeballin a xrc dangerous game rifle in .375 the other day. priced right but it may be gone as it's elbow to elbow at the gun shops right now.

For those who are not familiar with the old FN Brownings, here are some photos of the Safari grade.

I think I only shot this on 5 or six times to sight in, but I guess it�s time to redo, as I just swapped scopes from the old Redfield, to a Burris.

Richard

[img][IMG]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/Meatco1/Browning1.jpg[/img][/img]

[img]http://[IMG]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/Meatco1/Browning4.jpg[/img][/img]

It's 338 time. I love mine. Once a year for a few days I get woolies, elk hunters and 338's out and play with them.

I'm rolling for the coast in about thirty minutes. I've got the .338/2.5-8 Leupy/225 TBBC HE. I know this combo works. It works so well I don't use much else for elk. I shoot a few deer with mine too but only by circumstance.

If it breaks I will have to make do with my .35 Whelen/2x7 Leupy/225 TBBC. That will work too.

I have two days to see what I can do on coastal elk. 4 days if I get on a herd and want my butt chewed by the wife. [JK-if I was on a herd I'm sure she would be ok with it.]

I haven't hunted the coast in five years. Can't say I have always enjoyed the weather. We will see.

Bump for BSA

BSA as in motorcycles? Well I sure like the .338 caliber's for killing big animals. I like em so frigging much, that I ended up collecting several rifles in .338 calibers.

ALL HAIL THE .338 CALIBER!!! Now I am not yelling Dober or anyone else undersand gentlemen. Thank You All...Cheer's

Jeff you get that thing back from it's opperation yet (sorry I owe you a call, perhaps tmrw)..

Dober

Yessir! Leaning against the bookcase as I type. Came out to 23" or maybe even a bit less. I am LOVING the handling now!

I've only shot it a bit. It's been rainy and windy here. It appears to have retained it's mojo; the last 4 I shot were about .8" if memory serves. But we'll see. I need to load up some more ammo for it...

The POI did move like 7" at 100 yards though! Left and down. Maybe the gunsmith bonked the scope or something. Cost me another strand of wire off the fence I shoot through at my 100-yd target <grin>.

I believe you will like it.

I had my M70 SS Classic bobbed to 23" right after I got it.

I really like it. I do wish I had went 22 in.

Who did the work for you?

Mine is probably more like 22.5" which is cool.

Mike Hill did it. He does good metalwork IMHO. That said, if I look real close I see tool marks in the "recess" cut. However, let me say that this was the $50 version of the job. The barrel wasn't taken off. For a bit more he said he could pull the barrel and do it on a lathe and then I'd be seeing no tooling marks... but he said taking an XCR's barrel off would likely mar the coating a bit. Anyway I opted for the cheap cut/recess/crown and short of getting right up on it with a flashlight, it looks very clean and tidy.

Hey DB what was it you used on that enormous elk you were lugging through the Sportsman's Show a few years ago?

Let us know how it perks and what the speed diffs are?

You'll love it @ 23", there's some kind of magic to it I'm telling you.

Dober

I will Mark! Probably tomorrow actually, it should be dry enough to set up the chrony.

Really liking how this rifle is set up now. M700 XCR, 23" tube, Neil Jones worked over the trigger and set to 2.5 lbs, Conquest 3-9x40 in Talley LW's. That's a perfect scope for a harder-kicking long action rifle... at least for myself with my deviant shooting style <g>.

It's also had a Leup 2.5-8 and Conquest 3.5-10 on it. The 3-9 Conquest on it now, is best by far.

Should of punched it to .340 and then...it'd of been perfecto

Dober

Make chit deaderererer?

Absolutely, with aplomb

Call u tmrw

Dober

And verve and panach�, don't forget those!

JFC....

JeffObama, you are not only A douche....

You are THE douche.

This thread goes waaaaay back!........Maybe using some faster burns, I can load down my newly acquired 338-378 to see if it can equal the,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"mighty 338 Win Mag."

Well now that .338 - .378 is one quick heavy hitting long range caliber. It breaks shoulders on big animals at 500 yards with no sweat. I almost purchased one 5 years ago but backed out because I really didn't want to have a hunting rifle with a different safety than the model 70 Winchester has on them. So I went and built a .338/.300-Ultra mag instead. It kicks like a Missouri Mule you bet, it is only running around 9.35 pounds with the scope.

Dober, was it this thread you were asking on...? Anyway with cold ammo, cold day I just saw 2740 fps from the load I've been running for years. Just a seat-of-the pants WAG based on my readings in different temps and different chrono setups I'd say going from 26" to 23" cost me 60-75 fps. But that preliminary. It's not a hot load so I may bump it up a grain or two (RL19) and see how she perks.

Accuracy was good.

.............The Accumark has the brake and although she kicks, it really doesn`t kick all that badly. 20-40 bench rounds not a problem. Mine is 10 lbs 4 oz w/scope.

I would prefer the safety used on the M70 or a similar safety that is on my 375 Ruger Alaskan, but one can`t have everything.

Without going into the needlessly more powerful and exotic 338s, the 338-378 Wby in a factory Accumark, will more than take care of anything I could ask for and then some.

That'd sound about right to me jeff.

Dober

Jeff, that's a pretty mild load for a 225. What powder/charge you running?

Jeff, thanks for bringing up this old thread. There is a lot to be said about the ol 338 win mag. It is one of my favorites. They are so easy to load for, are quite managable in the recoil department and the animals hate them . The one I've got now is a good shooter, even though it is a crummy Ruger M77 MKII:


I found I had to glass bed it though becasue the stock didn't like the recoil too much .

I do believe it's a 225-NAB over 74 grains of RL19, Winchester brass, F215 magnum primer. Seated out to just shy of the lands.

When I worked up the load some years ago I remember I wanted great accuracy over 2800 fps but I wasn't trying for max speed... just didn't seem real important. I remember H4350 giving perhaps more speed but the rifle loved RL19 so...

Why, what can you get with 225's?

Jeff, just out of curiousity have you tried my favorite powder IMR 4350 in your rifle? A max load with that will produce somewhere around 2880 fps with the 225 accubond. My 338 loves that powder with 250 gr. sierras (gameking). I usually only run around 2600 with that load though, but it is pretty impressive in the accuracy department, bsa.

Jeff I have not had any issues getting over 2800 with the 225's and RL19 in the 23" 338's I've had.

Using Brian Pearce's loads from an old issue of either Handloader or Rifle (Can't recall which) he hit 2900 fps with the 225 TSX. I was able to duplicate this load in my 23" Winchester 70.

Hi Jeff, in the three 22" 338 WM's I've had both IMR and H4350 gave over 2,800 with 225's... depending on the barrel, 2,825 - 2,850.

If H4350 doesn't work accuracy-wise, I've found IMR4350 will often give better accuracy.

However, I've honestly never found a need for a bullet heavier than the 210 Partition on elk (2,950-ish)... they just whiz right through and drop stuff DRT. I never used the 200 NBT but Dober swears by them. I suppose the 200 NAB would be an awesome projectile as well.

When I was carrying the .338 a lot and using it for everything used mostly 210 partitions. They pretty much blasted through everything. One I remember the most was a large black beat walking into the woods about 200yds away. went in just below his tail and exited below his chin! Pretty impressive. It was pushed by a stiff load of IMR 4831 for about 2975 fom a 23 in barrel.

LC

The Great Caliber Debate

I built a 338wm several years ago after effectively killing everything I ever came across with my 3006 for many years. The first moose I shot with it went down like it had been hit with a giant hammer and I remember thinking, "Holy cow, does this thing ever hit game hard."

The last few moose, bears, and deer have died quickly and cleanly but I could not swear that they died any faster than they would have with my old 3006.

My old 3006 has been given to my brothers boy who just got his hunting license this year. This has forced me to build another 3006 up from an old FN Browning Safari.

I really like my 338 as it is accurate and seems to kill well but looking back it could have been a 9.3x62 or something else I suspect.

How many 1000+ lb bears have you shot with an 06? While I'm certain an 06 with good bullets will kill 1000+ lb bears, most AK Brown bear guides would prefer that you show up with a good 338 Win. Mag. with "good" bullets over an 06 with good bullets. If you'd like to see many ways the 338 WIn. mag. performs far better than the 30-06, just take the two to Africa with premium loads for each.

I currently have 5 different 06's and have used 06's a lot. I currently have two 338 Win. mags. and two 340 WBY mags. built on controlled feed actions. So my opinions come from experience.

Doug: Me too.....I just didn't want to get razzed for loading too hot...

sundles have you shot 1000 pound bears with the 338? Those are big one's for sure!

I'll bet it worked well....bullet?

I'm not opposed to loading hot, but then again I'm not opposed to a very accurate "representative" load either, which is what I have. Or had. I'd like goose it back up to 2800-something.

It does chap my ass when I can't get representative velocities out of a cartridge. My 2 7-08's are both like that. I have to run way over book max to even kiss 2800 fps with 140's from my Mountain Rifle. My M7 ran 150's down in the high 2500's. That's annoying.

I think the thing that gets overlooked is a supposed Guides experiences..Guides are normal people that get to take a month or two off work to Guide for an outfitter.Usually,local boys that have other jobs to sustain there families and ways.

1-One right here spends 10 months of the year behind a counter selling sporting goods and cherishes the time he has guiding in the Selway country.

2-Another is a Baker at a grocery store who is,like us,a hunting nut but he also spends the other 10+ months baking bread.In the Snake River breaks area he guides.

3-And maybe my favorite..A Budweiser delivery guy who takes off,and gets to help an outfitter up the Salmon river and calls himself,a guide and he is.

Any local with alot of experience hunting can be a Guide,if they like what you have to say.

Do they see alot,some do and others don't but they do here about it depending on how large the outfit is.For the vast majority it is not a full time job,just a part time job which they were hired for because of there previous knowledge of hunting/horses and the other goodies that go along with that.

Who did these dudes learn from?

Jayco

Jeff_0, All Hail to The Almighty 338 Lapua a perfect example of the Supreme Cartridge designing skills of the Lapua engineers, they know what the hell they are doing.

For North America's big bears...the Coastal Grizzlies of BC, Alaskan Brown Bears from Kodiak and the Peninsula and Polar Bears.....bears that could reach 1,000 pounds my experience has been to use a 375 H&H...with good BBC or Nosler Partition bullets of 270-300 grains...of the above bears, 14 of my 16 have been taken with a 375...using 275 BBCs..a 300 Weatherby and a 338 Winchester accounting for the other two...using 200 and 210 Nosler Partitions ...

Well, I suppose Almighty doth trump mere Mighty....

Now if they could just make a 338 Lapua that weighed 7 pounds all up, with the recoil of my beloved 270 Winny, that would be 'super duper Almighty!'

7 pounds is doable, the recol maybe with a proper brake

None Tim. Have hunted in BB country and have had them around my tent at night. Was toting a 338 WM.

Bet most BB guides would be happier if their guy showed up with a 375 H&H they could shoot well... I know I'd rather use a 375 than a 338. To me the 338 is neither fish nor foul really.

Aside, I suspect our Phil Shoemaker wouldn't mine a guy showing up with a properly stoked 30-06...

jwp,
quite possible I will admit, but I was being 'tongue in cheek.'
I've never even tried out a 338 Lapua, though I am a big fan of it's 'cousin' the 340 Wby.

[/quote]

It does chap my ass when I can't get representative velocities out of a cartridge. My 2 7-08's are both like that. I have to run way over book max to even kiss 2800 fps with 140's from my Mountain Rifle. My M7 ran 150's down in the high 2500's. That's annoying. [/quote]

I find Brian Pearce to be among the best at running cartridges at "representative velocities". I clip and save all his reloading articles for future reference.

Jeff you done much work with the 338 since the cut job?

Dober

In both of my current 22 inch 338's I've been using R19 with 225gr. bullets. I've loaded (and used) the 225gr. NP, 225gr. Hornady spitzer, 225gr. Speer BT spitzer and A LOT of Barnes 225gr. TSX. I find myself using around 74 to 75grs. of R19 and a Fed 210M primer to get roughly 2850 fps in both rifles with all those different bullets. R19 is a great 339 Win. Mag. powder and I have found no advantage in using mag. primers when using R19 or R22 powder.

I generally use R22 in my 340's.

I totally concur about R19 and the 338 it's a rock star in that round. Also like H4350 and would like to try R17 as well if I ever own another 338. (which I kind of doubt I will as I have a 338/06 I use a ton)

In my .340's I've used a lot of R22, 7828 and some R25.

Dober

Oh sweet Jeezus. I was peacefully reading through this thread and thinking of taking my 338 out of its semi retirement when I read this. Now all I can think of is a trip to the rifle range with that same 338 about three days after my personal 'cut job.' Recoil vibrations transferred from the shooting bench to the metal stool the jewels were resting on. That happened in September of '97 and the memory still hurts.

Now that would leave a mark, maybe we should get JB to do an article on it...grin

Dober

Mark I thought we agreed we wouldn't talk about the lobotomy....

I rezeroed it; the POI moved about 6" (!). It seems to still be sub-moa. I need to load up another batch of 225-NAB's before I can get too involvedshooting it at LR etc and I can't do that from Hawaii...........

You summed it up, so you hacked 4" of the barrel anyway.. WOW

You said it

jwp, I think Jeff did one of the most intelligent things a guy can do with a 338 WM... they don't "need" a 26" or even 24" barrel... Mark told him to cut it to 23" and I told him 22"... he wisely split the difference and went 22.5"...

The bore-volume/case-capacity ratio of the 338 WM is exactly the same as the 30-06 and I doubt anyone would argue a 30-06 doesn't work well with a 22" barrel.

Me personally, if I'm going to have a 24" bbl'd rifle, I'd sooner it be a 7mm RM or 300 WM. The fact a 338 WM works well in a 22" barrel is the main reason I'd chose one over the other popular Mag's.

JWP has a real bug up his booty over me cutting down that barrel!

Thing is, I tried like heck to love the thing at 26" and in the end just couldn't. Rifle balance and handling matter to me and she was a mess at 26".

As far as I can tell she still shoots- weather was crap for shooting small groups the last couple weeks, but nonetheless she printed a couple good'uns. We'll see how it plays out over the course of some more shooting, particularly at longer range....

Hey Brad I was aiming for 23" and I think that's about where it's at but it depends how you measure. By how Pac-Nor seems to measure, based on my two, she's more like 22.5".... by how Kimber & Remington do it, more like 23". Thinkin' it's probably a wash <g>, and also that you and Dober gave good advice as usual!

Jeff, I measure from the center of the gas port hole to the muzzle...

glad you like the barrel length!

Definitly more like 22.5" by that method.

I'm really digging the setup now; thinking I've got it buttoned up tight, finally, having tried some other scopes & mounts and of course the longer tube. Talley LW low's and a 3-9 Conquest, mounted back towards me of course <g>. The long constant eye relief of that scope is very nice on a long-action magnum like that.

Well... I better get back to my morning coffee in Hawaii here.

Bastid.

Have any ocean frontage you can sell us Montana boyz...

Dober

I know <g>. Been living like a pauper all year to swing this, so it's great to be enjoying the payoff!

I WILL spear a big fish on this trip, but I'm using more like the equivelant of a Wally-World .243 with a Bushnell on it... grin...not a .338, though they had those too at the Spear Store.... gonna have to sharpen it back up on the sidewalk here, or something, as I blunted it yesterday on some rock taking the one shot I've tried so far on a fish. And my belt sander wouldn't fit in my carry-on........

I could care less about what your barrel length is or is not?

I was just you statement early in this thread, which was exactly opposite of what you did.



But you did anyway!!!!!!!!!!!

So tell me.Why does a .308 bullet at a modest velocity, penetrate farther than a .338 or even farther than a 500 grain out of a 460 Weatherby let alone a 7MM and kill better?

Is it that shock 'n awe they call energy or what but the point being,the 30-06 with 220 grain bullets will out penetrate most every thing except the 510 grain out of a 458 Win Mag and only by a short distance.

Shot not exactly where we want it,we have all been there but the 338 Win Mag does not offer Superior penetration to the lowly 30-06 to get to the vitals,so why is it awesome?

Jayco

Jayco, beyond a certain point penetration is just goin' deeper into the tree behind the animal... unless it's a THS... no?

JWP, thinkin' you'll find that the post you keep quoting is from a while back. Kept carrying the rifle at 26", and just got more and more annoyed with it. Also put together another rifle that is getting me out to 600+ yards even more reliably than the 26" .338 was, so it became less of a gamble to chop it. And there were other considerations I won't go into here.

Why you even care, enough to be making/posting links to wierd little "puzzy hurts" videos, is the real question..............

There is some truth to that under ideal circumstances and the old broadside shot syndrome that is extinct to what it used to be here.If you want meat for the winter,you take the shot(within reason) presented and use enough bullet and gun to reach the vitals under sane circumstances..

I just don't see why the 338 Win Mag surpasses even the '06 here.So pardon me,I won't hail it..Yes I have seen it used on Elk more than a few times but as Shania Twain sang..That didn't impress me much compared to much lighter recoiling rifles.

Just another opinion!

Jayco

I just am getting my eyesight back from minor eye surgery and couldn't post.Someone posted that without one reply back thinking the 338/340 makes up for poor shot placement.

I can't believe not "one" reply to such a dumb chit post on an Elk hunting forum with new guys looking on.So I guess it is alright to purposely gut shoot Elk.

I am amazed.

Jayco

In case you don't know, They are funny, very funny

Jayco, If you'll go back to the entire post and read it in its full CONTEXT you wont be amazed at all and if by chance you are still amazed, then you simply are not capable of following the concept of using enough gun/cartridge to ensure the humane killing of old smart bulls that dont stand around in the open, broadside.......never mind.....just please go read the full thing with your brain fully engaged to the entire post and what it is about. Peoples lack of ability to follow a thought process and the reason for that process, never fails to dissapoint. Thanks.

Tim

While I agree with everything else you posted in that thread,I disagree on a public forum telling anyone it is Okie Dokie to gut shoot Elk,regardless of there size or caliber used.It's just wrong and some bozo just might think it is A Okay to do such with less than stellar results.

We go way back and I tip my hat to you on the Wolf thing but disagree on gut shooting Elk..So be it.

Hope all is well in Montana.

Jayco

I caught the gutz thing, just choose to let it rest..

Dober

Yep, I've seen accidental gut shots turn out ok. But almost always it's a rodeo. If a hunting pard of mine tried to pull that I would be done.

Don't qualify as a "gut shot" to me if it destroys the heart or flattens both lungs.

I agree. Is it a gut shot if the angle is hard and the bullet transverse from there to the front and through the vitails?

Yet the dreaded Texas Heart Shot is a bad word around here,as Ray Atkinson put it and got blasted for it.Ever gut out a gut shot anything the traditional way?

That's why there is the "No Gut" method.Chit happens but to intentional doing it?Why not just shoot there legs off first.

Some of you guys spend more money hunting racks than actual experience and nothing matters other than a kill anyway possible!

It's always about an 8X8 and a rifle leaving the barrel at Mock 3 or 10,000 yard kills,not about hunting ethically.


Jayco

That I'd like to see. I mean a "rifle" leaving the barrel at mach 3 or even mock 3

Your special...

Jayco

I have freinds all over the place that I dont know because of the wolf thing, so glad to meet you again. I was ahead of my time but exceedingly accurate on the wolf thing. I am just as accurate on the issue of taking less than perfect shots on game IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT EQUIPTMENT TO INSURE HUMANE KILLS---We may as well educate the new guys here "on a public forum" as any other way. Or should we let them believe myths and gun shop bs?? Shooting an older 900 lb 7x7 bull in the guts (because that is the ONLY shot he will give you, which is how he got to be a 10 year old 7x7) with a 340 WBY/338 Win. and premium bullets is no less humane than shooting a 2.5 year old 5x5 raghorn bull in the chest with a 270 Win., but you wont understand that unless you've done it a bunch. Further, I noticed several folks here discussing taking a "cheerio shot", which for all the newbies we dont want to pollute here, in public, is an up the anus shot. The "cheerio" shot is another shot that older bulls give, as they are not going to stand there broadside in the open like a 5X5 will. Well, that cheerio shot is very humane if it is done wth a 338 or 375 H&H.....I've done it and seen it done many times and with big cartridges, it kills every bit as fast as an 06 to the chest, but to try that cheerio shot with a 270 or 06 is very risky, because if you miss the tail bone, that elk will be over the next mountain. However, if you miss the tail bone with a good 338 bullet, no problem as that bull wont get 50 yards.

This type of information is not only true, but very useful and I see public forums as a way to educate by telling the truth and dispelling myths that are perpertuated by well meaning, but otherwise ignorant folks who are simply repeating the stuff they've heard for years.

The TRUTH is this, big bulls (on public lands) rarely if ever give perfect, clean shots. If you use a big/powerful enough cartridge with proper bullets, you can take most any type of BODY shot an older bull gives you and it is every bit as humane as shooting a bull in the chest (a publicaly accepted spot to shoot an elk) with a 270 or 06 class cartridge. I'm too old to run from the truth and to hide it from others for the SUPPOSED reason that it is for thier own good--I'll let them decide for themselves what is good for them, but I wont withold the truth.

Take care,
Tim

[quote=logcutter]Yet the dreaded Texas Heart Shot is a bad word around here,as Ray Atkinson put it and got blasted for it.Ever gut out a gut shot anything the traditional way?

That's why there is the "No Gut" method.Chit happens but to intentional doing it?Why not just shoot there legs off first.

Some of you guys spend more money hunting racks than actual experience and nothing matters other than a kill anyway possible!

It's always about an 8X8 and a rifle leaving the barrel at Mock 3 or 10,000 yard kills,not about hunting ethically.

Jayco {quote}

Aaaaand, long shots, say 800 yard shots with proper equiptment (in part, that means cartridges that have a lot of horse power remaining at 800 yards) being accomplished by folks who are trained and know what they are doing, is completely humane. I've hunted with guys like Darrell Holland that dont want to take a shot unless it is at least 600 yards or more, becaue they are proficient in doing so and taking those type of shots is a big part of why they hunt and they kill elk/deer/proghorn/sheep, etc quite humanly.

Even further, who are you to say it is wrong to hold out for an "8x8"? Some folks hunt for meat. Some hunt for the challange of pitting witts with the biggest/smartest animal of thier species. Either way, who are you to choose for others, why they hunt?

It's simple physics that if you hold as much constant as is possible, a .338 is capable of doing more damage to an elk than a (for instance) 30-06.

The relevance of that is debateable (lol), but the physics aren't.

However, sundles, you are on you own as far as defending intentional gut-shots.

And I do not say that to be an assho'.... just saying it because I have no experience with that.

No, not really,although we'd all like them standing prettier than that

I know because I've done it that a 200 gr partition from a 300 magnum will make from the last rib to off-side shoulder;and I've seen it done with the 340 and 210's and 225's as well.And you will have a hard time recovering any of them when angles are gentler.

How well any of them do with pure rear end shots I have no idea because I won't take that shot at an unwounded bull,but if forced to my objective would be to bust up tailbone and pelvic structure, which will put the ass enddown and allow a finisher.I have no doubt such shots are effective but simply are not my cup of tea.

It certainly makes sense to carry a rifle or load that will do that,if that's what your objective is.

These conversations sound a great deal like many I've had over the years with my old friend Bill Steigers,maker of Bitterroots.He has shot a good many elk in his day,and felt very firmly that if you are gonna be taking random body shots on big bulls, from any angle,and want to really numb them, that the 338 calibers, while good,are not as effective as the 375 bore diameter.He sort of evolved to the 375 AI(there being no RUM's around then except as wildcats),and felt strongly that the additional bore diameter of the 375 made it a better mouse trap for such shots and had more telling effect.The 375 holds about the same advantage in bore diameter over the 338's,that the 338's do over the 30's.

He used the AI version to start the 250 BBC's at 3100 and the 275's at over 2900.In a recent conversaton with him he told me if he were doing it today he's use the 375 RUM,simply because it's easier to get the velocity from it than the AI,just holds more powder.

In any event I have seen more carnage and bigger holes from the 375 stuff than anything smaller.If I was going into Idaho jungles after elk I'd just grab my 375 with 250's at 2900+ and have at it.This combo stays with the 338 and 340 to about 500 yards and what happens after that is of no interest to me anyway.

I used to worry more about this stuff than I do now....I haven't had any problem killing elk with 30's and 7mm's,and have killed nothing but mature bulls and walked away from many that I could have killed,which is no big deal.

Perhaps you could explain the "physics", I would like to hear about the "physics"

True as far as it goes, but you'd be surpised at how different bullet construction can change this and in a hurry....I have seen many times, the effect of 210 and 225 Partitions on elk...and also a 165 30 cal BBC started at 3200 from a 300 mag.

The differences will give you pause and cause reevaluation of what a guy "thinks" he "knows"...

..the reason is simple.The NPT will lose 1/3 to 40% of its weight;it's frontal area will be smaller,and at the end it will not have retained as much weight as the BBC.The higher striking velocity,coupled with early expansion to a broad frontal area will cause tremendous destruction...

Seeing both work will have you saying...."It ain't supposed to work that way..."(?)

That's what I ended up finding...

agree with BobinNH...

OU76/Brad: Even guides(guys with 200-300 elk on their belts;and brown bear as well) have commented more than once....

A call to Bill Steigers is an education in terminal performance,if no one beleives me,which is OK, too.

Bob, I think it all boils down to your comfort level. We are all individuals here. One thing we need to be out in the field is comfortable and confident in our rifle and our abiltiy to make said combination work for us. If your comfort level allows the use of a 338 wizbang magnum then so be it. I like giving my friend a hard time because he uses his 270 for everything and I myself have always used the 30-06 (old rivalry I know ), we all know what one does the other can do just as well. I think with todays bullets, less focus should be on the cartridge used and more should be on the critical things like ergonomics, weight, and shootability. As I stated earlier, 338 is what I carry and for the simple fact that it is quite managable to shoot, it is accurate, and it gives me all the confidence in the world: To give an example, the other day I was practicing some offhand shooting and managed a 2.5" group at 200 yds with my fav 338. All that being said, the most important factor in making a clean kill in most hunting situations is proficiency rather than choice in caliber. Have a merry christmas to everyone on the campfire, BSA.

I have used various "medium bores" from the .338 Winchester through the .375 H&H on a wide variety of big game, some shot at bad angles. If anybody really believes that the bigger bullets of the mediums will make up for anything more than maybe an inch of aiming error, then THEY are in error.

I have also shot lengthwise through elk and elk-sized animals with various bullets from .270 to .30 caliber, even those antique Nosler Partitions. The bullet makes more difference than the bore.

Whatever modern improvements in bullet design will do for a 30 cal. bullets terminal performance, those same improvements will do likewise for the 338 cal. bullets, no? so, whatever leaps forward in terminal effectivness a 30 cal. bullet made, so did the 338's.

For the first time ever, I recovered a 225gr. TSX from an average sized bull this fall. I was shooting my old 340 (Mauser) WBY with a muzzle vel. of 3050 fps. He was running away quartering at 350+ yards, the temperature was -10*f (just east of Butte on the east side of the CD) with about a 15 mph wind (wind chill had to have been around -30*f) and I simply wanted to kill a bull so I could go home. I took the cheerio shot at that distance and hit a few inches to left, shattering his entire pelvis, and the bullet came to rest on the opposite side of his body after it broke one of the middle ribs. Many would question the ethics of taking this shot as not only was it a bad angle shot, but it was a moving elk at long range. If you are uncomfortable taking these types of shots, then dont take them, but I have practiced for this type of shooting all my life and am capable, so judge your own abilities, but don't judge others--almost sounds biblical.............hope everyone has a great Christmas.

[quote

I have also shot lengthwise through elk and elk-sized animals with various bullets from .270 to .30 caliber, even those antique Nosler Partitions. The bullet makes more difference than the bore. [/quote]

So imagine what happens when you use those new/wonderful bullets designs in a 338 cal.

I cannot disagree with you. I shoot a lot of 06's and the good ol 06 is my favorite using cartridge, but whatever advantage modern bullet desings have given the 06, they have given to the 338 also.

I used to correspond a bit with the late George Hoffman. Aside from being a real Texas gentleman, most will likely remember him as an African PH of considerable experience and the originator of the 416 Hoffman, which Remington later legitimized as the 416 RM. He obviously had no beef with big cartridges!

In our correspondence he told me he'd killed just over 50 elk, and used mostly if not exclusively, the 270 Win. He wasn't overly impressed with the idea that the 270 Win wasn't a GREAT elk round...

Talking to some of the old greats always makes an impression.I have sat on the late Wayne Nitz porch in Elk City more than a few times talking to him about the past and his experiences as an Outfitter who catered to the likes of Jack O'Connor,he called a friend,and Elk hunting/rifles/bullets etc.It's the man putting a decent bullet where it needs to go and knowing when to pull the trigger and when not to..He explained the many degree's of Buck Fever he has seen in a lifetime of hunting and Outfitting.


They settled the Elk City/Red River area and have seen and done some amazing things.Talk about an encyclopedia of hunting experiences!!

His father(Con) Rescuing the people of Red River via Horse with snowshoes.



Jayco

This is absolultely true, but have you ever written/said something over and over and still wonder if you are being heard? So, in regards to your above statement, I have this to say for the third or fourth time. BIG BULLS RARELY IF EVER GIVE A HUNTER A GOOD SHOT, SO IF YOU WANT TO KILL A LOT OF 10 YEAR OLD BULLS, USE ENOUGH CARTRIDGE TO KILL THEM WITH A POOR SHOT AND THIS MAY MEAN A GUT SHOT OR A TEXAS HEART SHOT, ETC. OTHERWISE PASS ON THOSE POOR SHOTS. FOR THIS REASON, I USE THE 338 AND 340 WBY MOST OF THE TIME AND EVEN WITH THE VERY BEST BULLETS, I WOULD NOT TAKE A POOR SHOT ON AN ELK WITH A 270 WIN. OR AN 06, BUT THE 338 WILL GET IT DONE.

I also like the .338 Win Mag. Felt recoil is, as everyone knows, varies greatly with stock design and the weight of the rifle. A .338 WM in a Remington 700 BDL was one of the nastiest rifles I have ever fired - far worse than my .416 Rem Mag, whereas the same chambering in a custom M98 and a Sako Fiberclass were absolute pussycats - and I mean really mild.

An old, (out of service) creosote coated telephone pole was a litmus test for me.
220gr Partitions from a .30-06...
250gr Partitions from a .338WM...

Guess which one completely penetrated the pole. Twice.

Yes, a little extra goes a long way when things don't work out perfectly. Of course, one has to be able to put that extra to use correctly.

Others opinions differ on the .308 bullet versus the .338 unless you consider an 8 year old Bull Elk tougher than an Alaskan Brown Bear.

Here are a few quotes from Phil Shoemaker.



Then there was John Barsness's earlier post here.




Enough quoting for one day.

Merry Christmas...Jayco

That was the very resoning behind my un-scientific experimentation.
And, note I never said the .308 diameters were not suitable for large game.
Heck, I think game is the worst "medium" for true scientific experimentation, for various reasons. One of which is game sometimes just does not want to die. But it is a great "medium" for filling freezers!

I know what I saw that day. The .338WM dominated in penetration.
I do not believe ANY caliber makes up for a poorly placed shot.

Your results may vary.

I feel that one of the biggest challenges about using game for tests is that darn few people shoot a lot of game (and I mean a Lot) and even fewer people shoot much in the way of Big Big game (ie elk, moose, big bruins and some big stuff cross the pond).

Not tough to find people who've shot a lot of deer, but hey what won't work on a deer if directed properly?

Lastly with game and bullets I've long said if you use a bullet long enough sooner or later it'll give you reason to go hmm...what was that all about.

Dober

[quote=logcutter]Others opinions differ on the .308 bullet versus the .338 unless you consider an 8 year old Bull Elk tougher than an Alaskan Brown Bear.

Here are a few quotes from Phil Shoemaker.

[quote]

There is not much difference in performance between a 220gr .308 Partition and a 250 gr .338 Partition.



As much as I like Phil and as much as he has endorsed Buffalo Bore Ammo, I still gotta disagree with that quote.

I hunted AK Brown Bear with Schoonover close to a dozen times, always holding out for 10+ foot bear. I got to know him real well and he probably has more AK Brown Bear kills under his belt than any human still alive (guided hunters on Browns for over 50 years and was killing them as a kid, before that) and he told me that he did not really like to see a hunter show up with an 06, but the 300 manums were OK as long as they had 180 NP bullets loaded into them. Back in those days the NP was the only "premium" hunting bullet around. Kenny said that if he ever decided to kill one last big bear for himself, he would use a 340 WBY with 250gr. NP's as he had observed it kill a number of bear and as a hunting (not guiding) cartridge, it was his favorite because of how it hammered the big bears.

Jayco, Do you live in ID county? Have you seen the Id County Sheriffs raffle called the "SSS wolf pack raffle"? I just bought 110 tickets, mostly to support the sheriff there. The prize is a Win. rifle in 308 and a short handled shovel, both of which are engraved Shoot Shovel and Shut Up and they come with a window mount, so you can hang both in the back of your truck. Funny, funny stuff.

I do Tim..6 Months in Grangeville(Winter) and 6 in Elk City infact,this was in the local paper last week and the family is who I help from time to time and speak of often.



There is no doubt the 338's are Elk killing machines but to what extent,I tend to disagree with some but that's hunting and experiences as they go.

Jayco

Bob...ain't no doubt when Bill Steigers speaks about hunting bullets, calibers and etc one better listen..he is the absolute authority on this subject...as you know Bill does not give a dang about marketing a product...if he did he would have sold out his BBC to Speer just like Jack did with his trophy bonded...and look what has happen to a great hunting bullet for reloading...ain't there no more...

OU: True enugh. He had numerous chances to sell BBC but refused because mass manufacturing methods of the time would have compromised his bullets.

Jack Carter tried to get Bill to mass manufacture;it was Bill's refusal to do so that caused Carter to create the TBBC.Some folks say Carter was the "father" of bonded core bullets but this is untrue.Steigers was the guy who set the standard.

Elk, Moose, Grizzly and Brown Bear ain't no telephone pole...

yep...ol' Bill made them the old fashion way...one at a time..and that is why I never got to use the 130s in my 270...Jack's TBBC were good bullets until he sold out and the mfg left Texas...Bill was/is one of a kind...if you give him a call...you better be prepared for the phone billl as he will give you an education...something that just ain't out there anymore...Art Mashburn told me Bill Steigers had forgot more about bullets and their performance than most experts ever knew...

Jayco,

Why are folks letting any wolves stay alive over there? With your governors latest position, Idahoans can kill wolves with impunity now.....I know a few who are. Seriously, you guys can kill all the wolves you want and no Idaho authority will even raise an eyebrow as per the governors instructions. The feds could still go after any perpatrator, but there is only one federal investigator for the entire state. I know him--he lives in Boise and he couldnt investigate his own butt with both hands. Idahoans have a free ride to kill all wolves. Wolves are no longer politically protected and are a political liability, now that the truth (a few of us knew from the beginning) is out.

I could care less about the 338 argument, it is only my opinion and if all I had was a 243, I'd still kill elk every year, I'd just have to wait for better shots, which might mean passing on some bigger bulls, but I'd still get it done.

I came to this dead horse late but who's got a whip I can borrow? Most know I built a 340 Wby up on the bemoaned M700 action back in the early 90's; it was Ross Seyfried's fault. I've killed more big game ( eleven or so bull elk, caribou, many deer) with it than any other cartridge but since then I've come to a couple of delusions, er conclusions:

1) Its a specialty cartridge, ideally suited for soft-skinned big and bigger game way out there which means it's ideal for elk, moose, etc., same as the .338 Win. Nothing new there. 2). It needs at least 8-8 1/2 lbs all up to keep it from knocking you off the hill which I've come to think is too much for me to want to carry up the hill any more where elk and moose live but the same is true of the .338. But, as Ross said of the .340, and he was right, "it hits like a .375 but flies like a .270, a bit more so than the .338. However, I believe maybe only 2%.., ok 10%, of hunters can develop a meaningful relationship with it without it ending in a divorce because while it hits like a .375 way out there, it's not as polite and courteous as the H&H on the shoulder. And in my view, neither is the.338.

2). I think the .340 is more difficult to drive without a doubt than a .375 H&H of similar weight even though that depends on many factors and is a very subjective thing. IMHO, the .375 is a a meshing of all the natural laws that govern men and nature and just may be one of the two best compromises in the world that is cartridges. I've taken eight species in Africa--not much by any account-- and a couple of elk and just fell in love with it and came to understand what has been written about it for so many years; in Africa, it's like a broad spectrum antibiotic--it will cover everything with judicous use. In our part of the world load a monolithic (ligher) spitzer and it's 400-yd flat. I've also shot my single smallest group ever (big game rifles) with a .375 at .38" for five shots with a TSX 270-gr rumbling along at a modest 2700. When it comes to it's bigger bretheren in the .375 family (I've had a .375 Mashburn [same as a 375 Wby] and have shot up to a 378 B--whew! no thanks), "less is more" and compared to most of the magnums below it-the 300s to the 338s, "the more of the .375 IS more.". I don't have one right now but if someone takes this 340 off my hands and I needed something over the 300's, it'd be the old H&H without a doubt or a second thought. Sorry, I'd pass over the .338 Win and go right to the older classic; its as easy or easier to shoot and gives up nothing in rifle weight or trajectory and can add bullet diameter and weight.

3). As Ross S. Stated after the advent of the original Barnes "X" and the Failsafe, there's been a great leveling of the playing field regarding the affectiveness of cartridges on game. Brad mentioned it too. Less IS much more than it was twenty years ago in the cartridge world which leads me to the other cartridge of superb balance, all things considered: the 30-06 with a 165-168 to 180-gr monolithic bullet out of say a 6.5 lb rifle all up (the rumor is I'll get it before I'm in wheel chair bound and someone is feeding me oatmeal, though I ordered it in April of last year). I can get it up the hill and kill an elk at 400 yds. with it, or beyond.

So, judge, in summation here, I agree that should a pox come upon me, ridding me of all my earthly marbles but leave me with one wit of good sense, I'd be happy the rest of my days with an '06 so described and and an H&H of my choice and live happily ever after.

Heck, I'm even happy now.

Good post

Excellent post there Goodnews and after using a 340 a lot as well my self totally concur with your statements! When it comes to shoulder bump the 375 is way more user friendly! Not saying that a 340 can't be worked with, IMO it just takes another level of commitment especially if the 340 is sub 8.5 lbs.

Dober

Ya think?

Honestly, Colorado elk taught me more about knives and lower back workouts than that pole taught me about the .338WM and Nosler's best.

Especially the lower back exercises..grin

Dober

Well said, gn.

So, I take it that the other one of the "two best compromises" is the 30-06???

Add a 180 Nozler and go forth and fill up a few arks!

Dober

All hail the Wonderful and Mighty 30-06 <g>!

Love that one too.

Now we are talking Jeff!!!!

To me, they are similarly "balanced" cartridges; very shootable, easy to load for, very accurate.

When I started this thread in '07 I was shooting my .338 a LOT and just reveling in the above properties. Of course, there are many Wonderful & Mighty cartridges. We are blessed that way!

I'll be giving my .338 a good burst of shootin' again here this spring, since I chopped the bastid shorter and so need to re-establish my come-ups (and confidence) at longer ranges with it. Can't wait!

With a rebarrel coming for my .325 the .338 will again become my elk "primary", likely backed up by my trusty ol' 30-06. Life is good!

You mean the "Hail The Mighty" 338 needs a back-up??

Well, duh.

"Broad Spectrum Antibiotic."

Love it GN!

Totally concur. Have had a couple 375 H&H's (24" and 22" bbl's). Found it more user friendly than the 340 Wby (which I find generally obnoxious).

As I said a few pages and days back, I've always found the 338 WM neither fish nor foul. I'd sooner have a 22 or 23" bbl'd 8lb 375 H&H.

I've had a small pile of 338 WM's and one 338-06... the 338-06 is my favorite of that caliber. Dobers G33 Mauser with brown precision stock and Chanlin cut rifle barrel in 338-06 is one of the finest rifles I've ever had in my hands.

But at the end of the day, a light 30-06 make a ridiculous amount of sense. I like my rifles under 8lbs "all-up" weight... just more fun to pack on an elk mountain.

In a word, yes. I've a Blaser K95 Baronesse in "the 30" ordered since April of last year. You see, I not only am going with the "old 30", but am getting it in a single shot because that's all I need (just kidding there )

This is the rifle I've contentiously named the Green Bean. It's been faithful, and deadly efficient in taking game but in also helping friends decide what to get for "deer and elk" when they ask me.

As one buddy's cap flew off and over his head as the trigger broke, he quickly handed the Green Bean back to me and remarked that, as I had suggested before, the '06 would be ok with him.

"Good choice", I said.

I need to get a scale... I dunno what my lopped .338 XCR weighs but I bet it not much more than 8#, just going by the feel of it compared to say my .325 Montana.

People that can't haul an 8 or 9 pound rifle around all day hunting,needs to start working out and getting there own firewood...Push ups maybe?

Jayco

Lol, not me! I cut 4 cords a year and do a couple hundred pushups every other night... but I still try to keep my rifles light as is practical.

On the subject of recoil I do feel modern stocks and recoil pads have really changed the game in a way similar to how modern bullets have... my .338 is a pussycat to shoot in the tupperware XCR stock and with the Limbsaver pad.

Nothing to do with it...

Do you realize the difference between an 8 pound rifle and a 9 pound rifle is 16 ounces aka one soda pop without the can...Give me a break how 16 ounces makes the difference in a hunt holding it in your hands.

I just don't get it over an 8 ound rifle over a 9 pound one..Clue me in how that 16 ounces ruined the hunt?

Jayco

Why Brad???

Please tell me why.

Jayco

Can't tell you for sure what the .338 weighs, but when I bought my .375 (700 xcr, 24" barrel, plastic stock) we put it on a scale at the gun shop ... 6 pounds 12 ounces before adding bases, rings, and a scope.

Logcutter - I've packed rifles from under 6 pounds to perhaps 14 pounds fairly long distances hunting ... 12-15 miles a day. I much prefer the under 6 pounds. Draggin' a Sendero through the brush is possible, I've done it quite a few times when I didn't have much else, but it's damn sure not ideal. I'd just as soon stay under 8 pounds "all up" for a packing rifle, anything heavier can stay in the truck while my lighter rifle gets the field time. Just 'cause I can pack more doesn't mean I should.

Tom

I here ya Tom but benefits usually come with slightly heavier weights..I packed a 30 pound chain saw around for over 40 years and Dober just posted that benching 250 isn't out of reach if you work st it..I agree big time.

What does get me is people saying there in shape for hunting and whine about 16 ounces in rifle weight.Seems everything is rifle weight not whats on your back or waist.Does not make sense to me.

Sorry..Just my opinion.

Jayco

Don't apologize. Good points. Stand by 'em. Everything is tradeoffs. Even if mechanical accuracy was identical, the little light rifles I like to carry are the hardest ones to shoot well and a somewhat heavier gun is easier to shoot well. Mechanical accuracy is seldom identical, though, lots of exceptions but on average the heavier gun is going to be more accurate, not just easier to hit with.

Tom

Jeff_O couldn't tote a 26" barrel rifle all day hunting, so he hacked off 4". How much does that wiegh 2-3 ounces? And you want some on to carry 16 ounces, give'em a break

Those old Buffalo hunters must have been some tough SOB's..

Jayco

Must have been. Hell the settlers walked across the country carring single shot rifles that weighed 13 + pounds, some of them with 30" barrels

And that was just the women and kids!!!

Jayco

Of course, sometimes you carry what you have not what you would prefer to right..grin

Dober

Side note, what amazes me about those tough old dudes is not what they carried but how they handled things like teeth absessed (spl?) and other such medical issues. Now those dudes were another kind of tough as far as I'm concerned.

Merry Christmas Boyz!

Dober

To me, lugging weight unnecessarily is dumb. And as the saying goes, if you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough.

I think tough and smart is better.

Aside, I'd bet money you couldn't keep up with me all day in the mountains.

Your probably right..45 years of logging turned me into a whuss.Grow up Brad..Your sounding like one of my four sons challenging Daddy from 21 to 42 years old and they don't whine about rifle weight.

Jayco

Jayco, I stay in pretty good shape, working at it year long and while I could carry a nine lb rifle in the Rockies, I won't. It's not essentially what I can or can't do but what's easier and outside of formal, competitive paper pouching, neither do I believe a heavier rifle is easier to shoot more accurately as many claim.

So add Talley LW's and a 3-9 Conquest and probably just a bit over 8# with a few rounds loaded...

JWP: the weight of the rifle at 26" didn't bug me. The balance and ungainliness did. A 22"-23" barrel just stays in my "personal space" mo' betta than a 26" does. And doesn't snag chit when slung either.

Merry Christmas my friends and mahalo for the great thread!!!

Guys,where have you been? 8 pound 338's have been around since the early 80's.....and we made them relatively pleasant to shoot,too!

Now my pal's 340 Weatherby is a stock Mark V lefty he dropped into a Brown Precision stock back around 82-83 IIRC.This is one accurate rifle and I doubt it'll go more than 8 or 8.5.It will not kill you on an elk mountain,and ain't half bad.

We found it reared back a good amount so he sent it to magnaport which keeps recoil straight back and more manageable.Accuracy was not effected in the least and this is less loud than a muzzle break.......you still have to hang on but it won't kill you;manageable.

There have been others here including a couple put up with pre 64 actions, Kriegers,and Brown stocks. These were lightweight and not bad to shoot;a couple of original pre 64 70's which were nicely balanced but heavier,and a flossy Griffin&Howe pre 64 that liked saddle scabbards on hunts I took it on....including the day the horse ran off with it.That taught me to never dismount without taking your rifle....

Of the bunch the Brown stocked 338 rifles were really best as they were easy to lug and not bad to shoot.

Jayco, I thought this was the immature post, said to people you know nothing about.

The better shape you're in, the less weight you're carrying, the longer you'll be able to go. I thought every grown adult could have figured that out.

9lb rifles have their place, and if all that was available in the world were 9 lb rifles and no other alternatives, that's one thing. There are other choices... just don't imply to me I need to get in shape when you've never met me.

So as you said, but which better fits you, "Grow up"... you're macho act is childish.

Bob, I'm more inclined to sub 7lb rifles all-up weight!

But sub 8lb is fine too. Have lugged 8.5 - 9.5 rifles up and down Montana. I like lighter better. But I'm a backpacker/climber and came to hunting thinking about ounces.

Of course not all weight is the same either. 25lbs carried in a quality daypack with good suspension doesn't even feel like it's there... the weight is carried close to one's center of gravity and is born by the hips. A rifle, especially if it's carried in one's hands at-the-ready, is away from the center of gravity. The heavier, the more fatigue. The farther from one's center of gravity the weight, the more fatigue.

So my question is why not a sub 8lb rifle?

(When I'm talking rifle weight I'm talking all-up weight, scope, sling, rounds. The whole enchilada).

Merry Christmas guys...

Brad: Agreed....I was just reliving various 338's of the past.

But I am not sure I'd want a 338 that weighed less....

I like the Rem 700 AWR in .338 Win. It is one of my all time favorite rifles. All up it might kiss 8lbs, but is not unpleasant to shoot at all. It weighs almost the same as my KS in .280, having the same barrel contour, but a larger hole keeps them very similar. There is no doubt that stock design keeps recoil very managable, I have shot quite a few .338's that were heavier, yet the recoil was much worse. I have never had a chance to shoot one in a NULA but would really like to try-from what I hear it is not a hard kicker in that rifle.

Another reason for 30-06's and 270'S!

Have had an 8lb 338 WM (22" bbl M700 ADL)... most accurate 338 I ever owned. Not too bad at the bench but I just can't see the "why" of the 338 for elk anymore.

But this is all fun and games... except on the internet

4 me and this kid only I have a tendency to prefer a rifle that's mid 7's to a skosh over 8 all up, mainly cause I like that weight to hit something with when trigger time comes.

And Merry Christmas to my Mashburn brother..grin

Dober

Dober, reminds me so much why I like NULA rifles... with no. 2 barrel... "hang" like an 8lb rifle, "carry" like the 6.5 lb rifles they are.

One of these days I'd like to own one.

Just a quick google says this in rifle weight all 30-06..

Weatherby Sporter-7 lbs
Sub MOA-7.5 lbs
Ruger Hawkeye-7.5 lbs
Win 70-7.4 lbs
Super Grade-8.0 lbs.

Now throw a scope/ammo and sling on there and your over 8+ pounds in all of them and that's what the normal Joe uses without even thinking about it.

Merry Christmas...Jayco.

Now you're talking Mac!

Just hang a #2 cut to 23" on your Lil Sky and call it a day. We can pursue Nilgai with the cheddar saved.

Dober

logcutter,

That's because the "normal Joe" doesn't have a clue that there's an alternative to carrying a 9-pound rifle.

I remember taking a 7mm Remington Magnum on a black bear hunt once with a buddy of mine, a "normal Joe" who had only hunted with one rifle all his adult life, a post-'64 Model 70 7mm RM with a typical over-sized walnut stock and 3-9x Redfield scope in one-piece-base Redfield mounts. The mounts alone weighed almost half a pound, and I'd guess his whole rifle weighed close to 10 pounds loaded.

He picked up my synthetic-stocked rifle at one point for some reason and said, "Wow! That's sure light. I'd love to hunt with something like that!" My rifle weighed 8-1/2 pounds with scope.

Within a couple of years my buddy had a .300 Winchester Magnum that weighed 8 pounds scoped, and loved it.

You guys must be darn near brain dead! 338's with not bad recoil at all! Jeez! What a load of BS!

Last one that I had would turn my ear muffs around side ways on my head when shot off the bench!

Hmm. Must be something very mismatched with that rifle's stock and your body. Either that or you were shooting heavy-bullet loads.

I've seen shooting a .338 that weighs between 7-1/2 and 7-3/4 pounds, depending on the scope, for almost 20 years now. It is a little obnoxious off the bench with 250-grain loads, but there's no reason to use 250's on any game under 1000 pounds. With 200-210-grain loads it's no worse than any .300 magnum, and not as bad as some.

MD

At some point in the weight/recoil ratio in certain calibers,heavier is better.A good example is the M-1 Garande weighing in at 9.5 lbs and Military issued some time back.Alot complained about the weight and alot complained about the recoil but they all learned to handle and carry it and got used to it.

Recoil being the same,sure,most hunters would like lighter..Just saying the Normal Joes I mentioned are not gun looney's and think nothing of carrying that 8.5 lb around the hills and even loaded with factory ammunition.

Heck..I don't own a custom made rifle of any sort,just factory offerings like the majority of hunters out there.

Jayco

Good stock fit makes a world of difference. The typical m700 stock fits me better than the M70 stocks and even though my M700 338 was a fair bit lighter than my M70's, it handled recoil better for me.

Also, never saw a bullet out-perform it's "numbers" like the 210 Partition!

Uh, ooooohhh...

I think the real need for a 338WM in the lower 48 is pretty low.
But that doesn't mean you can't hunt with one. The only critter that we can hunt with often that "might" need a 338WM is elk. But one sees many pics here and elsewhere with bulls and cows taken with .270's and lighter cartridges. As said here many times, when you put a premium bullet in the right place you will need a frying pan!
Merry Christmas to all.

Dober: Thanks and same to you and yours!

This thread looks like it is concentrating more and more on rifle weight which is very appropriate when talking about the .33s. I guess I'm coming down more to Brad's POV as I've a 284 that is 6.25 lbs all up and soon, hopefully, will have a '06 that will be right around 6 ready to go. I've the aforementioned 340 at 8.5 and picked up a 350 RM at a little less. As far as I'm concerned it's too heavy but the price was right and it's simply a beauty. I see it as a niche rifle for elk or moose should the chance come but not a over-hill-and-Dale piece.

The 284 and the '06 will likely get carried much more than I would have thought even 20 years ago and I think that may be a natural progression of the hunting rifleman, both in terms of going "down" to smaller but effiicient cartridges and rifles that are much lighter. There is still niche hunting where you post or stand with big heavy rifles and as we are seeing with John Burns, armament that is a compromise, still carried but substantial and set up for the extreme shot. But I don't think either of these will ever be in the majority and that's not to be critical of either type.

A sub 7lb all-up 30-06 makes a ton of sense... 165/68's at 2,900 is a lot of elk medicine. Whenever Kimber produces their 84L Montana in 270 and 30-06 I think a lot of hunter will have their ideal rifle... I'll likely be one of them.

One of the troubles with being a southpaw is the "white bread" offerings by the the gun makers and none by the smaller concerns. Although in my hunting life time that has improved a lot.

My bud has the SA Rem Ti in a 260--he about has to wrestle his boys for it when Deer hunting; talk about a cartridge-rifle match-up. He also has the Kim in the 300WSM, a very nice "mountain rifle" too.

If only..

The Kimber Montana in 300 WSM is one of the all-time great factory hunting packages- IMHO. Just ask Brad: he's owned like 6 of them!

Haven't owned one perzactly but my .325 is pretty close.

First, FELT recoil has as much (or more) to do with stock design/materials/fit as it does with the chambering. My most used 340 was custom built by Richard Scott about 25 years ago and features a Commercial Mauser action with a whippy 23 inch barrel and with the Leupolod 3.5X10 scope all mounted, it weighs in at around 7.5 lbs and the FELT recoil is not at all bad, but I only shoot 225gr. bullets @ 3050 fps, not 250's.

Both of my 338's wiegh in at just under 8 lbs with thier scopes and I find the FELT recoil to be 15 to 25% less than my lightest 340.

Light weight rifles are a wonderful thing...........I have several 06's and 7mm's that weigh around 6.5 to 7 lbs with thier respective scopes mounted, but these are all custom made or highly customized rifles.

My Kimber Montana chambered in 325 WSM (Barrel shortened to 22 inches) wiehgs 6 lbs, 14 OZ with a 2.5X8 Leupold mounted in Talley QD rings and the FELT recoil is similar to or SLIGHTLY LESS than my 338 WM's that weigh roughly one pound more.

My next two rifle aquisitions (I'l be buying them next month) are going to be Kimber Montana's chambered in 300 WSM and 270 WSM as the Kimber, MT's seem to be accurate and are lightwieght and a wonderful deal for $1,100.00 US. Never mind that I prefer thier CRF actions and all stainless construction for serious low maintanence use.

Sundles, you have too many rifles. Please send those light 7's and 30's to me and well drop the whole matter

I'd have to agree as you can load it down to 06 levels or nearly all the way up to 300 Win. Mag. levels---in a rifle that will weigh about 7.5 lbs with a Leupold 3.5x10 mounted on it and if you want to shorten that 24 inch barrel....................I thinnk a Montana 300 WSM with the barrel sawed of at 21 inches, would make a great Rocky Mountain kick around rifle. I dont know about you guys, but I spend a lot of spring/summer/fall time, just kicking around in the mountains and there are a lot of uses for a fairly powerful, scope sighted, light weight rifle.

No.

Brad,

If you have been loading for the 300 WSM and shooting them in the Kimber, I could use some actual tried and true load data help for the 165-168gr. TSX and or the 180gr. TSX. IF you would not mind helping me, it would be better than me needlessly reinventing the wheel. WOuld you mind sending me a private message?

Tim

If you need some 45-70/454 Casull data,just ask(laughing)..Keep up the good work and I hope you win that SSS Rifle.

Jayco

Jayco - get a clue about your measurement system. Even a Canuck stuck in MetricLand knows that there is a difference between ounces in weight and liquid ounces.

Past that, any backpacker/mountaineer can tell you that even 1 lb. of weight multiplies many times the longer that you pack it.

It does,John..I packed a 15-20lb saw around for 45 some years and know regardless of doing it every day,it gets heavier towards the end of the day.But I would never have sacrificed weight for power or I would still be on the hill limbing my first tree..

When the normal Joe hunter buys a factory built rifle and adds his scope/sling and ammo,he is hauling around close to 8.5 pounds and never thinks about it.My .300 Win weighs in at 9 pounds loaded for the hunt and it's no big deal.

One pound how ever you put it, isn't much and something you can work at and over come.

To each his own.

Jayco

And one more thing..Most hunters are anal about getting in shape aka running/walking or weight training which are mostly cardio.The thing they always seems to leave out,is carrying the rifle around in a ready position all day which is a total different set of muscles than you get in basic weight training.

I use my saw atleast once a week( I cut two cords last week) cutting firewood for money and after lugging that puppy around most of the day,my 9 pound 375 H&H or .300 feels like a toy because it is the same muscles used.

Just saying....One pound ain't nuttin!

Jayco

I agree on that.

Whats a 45-70?

I left out the Mag in 45-70...Getting old,I guess.I could be a smart azz and mention the .457 Wild West wonder bomb,but I won't!!!You fixed that...

Jayco

All the talk about rifle weight got me to thinking. I weighed the 338 win mag XTR in a winlite stock that I just bought and it came in at 7.6 lbs with scope. I plan on changing the factory pad to a pachmyer decelerator. I haven't shot it yet...

7.6 is a nice weight with scope so "all up" it'll be 8 or a bit more or less. Very user friendly!

Dober

I'm thinkin' I'll like it, probably like it more after the pad but hopefully I'll get some range time with it tomorrow. Starting with some 225 gr factory loads.

Once upon a time I did a 416 Taylor off a M70 with the Winlight handle with the schnable on it. It was a bit cheeky but not anything this knot head couldn't live with. Mainly used it for yotes/chucks and porcupines b4 it found a new home.

Dober

You should write a book so titled

I reckon that 338 will be all I want in that light of rifle, only thing I had close was a 375 H&H in a remington sps stock (those sps dangerous game rilfes) I think that was around 7 3/4 #'s before the scope. Bet that 416 would make ya break a sweat !

Mark,

Hey, porkies can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

That's why they call them "the poor man's" wildebeest.

John,

The two best loads we found after fairly extensive testing was a .340 with a 250 Horn sp and the .416 Rigby with one of the old 300 Barnes Orignals and or something like that.

Dober

That's gonna WAY overpenetrate.

Dober-
Oooohhhh baby! If it had a name, I'm guessing it was along the lines of "The Attention Getter".

Not read the posts, but no doubt the 338 is a great round and proven killer as a bore size.

Recoil is subjective - as to tolerance. Every person is built differently, as are rifle stocks/weight.

That said, the 700 SS/BDL I had was more than I wanted to shoot, never could squeeze them off as well as my 338-06. No doubt, a rifle shooting a good 338 bullet at decent speeds put thru vitals will drop most any game.

No doubt, since inception, smaller bore rounds have indeed been blessed w/better bullets that do act like larger peers. I lean towards the lighter recoil spectrum so I can shoot more, and not get beat up.

For purely a hunting rifle, the 338 has an enviable record on game, w/o a doubt.

65BR, I think you've got one great setup in a 338-06. I could be very happy with that! My '06 might become that, next rebarrel.

My .338 is relatively mild to shoot due to, I think, the flexy M700 XCR plastic stock and the squishy Limbsaver pad. Sumptin'. At any rate it's a rifle that I shoot very well- which is what matters in the end.

Now, a .270/.338 wildcat would be cool..........

There was a time I believed very firmly that elk required larger bores and heavy bullets;rather than dink around with a little old 338 caliber(which I also owned and hunted with) I put together a 35 on a full length,blown out 375H&H case(this was before Layne Simpson came up with the 358STA) and loaded 250 BBC's to a full 3050,and 225's to about 3150.Action was a pre 64 300H&H and barrel was a 12 twist Krieger.In a Brown stock it weighed about 8.5 scoped and is the only rifle I ever saw make a 4X Leupold quit...

This shot as flat to 500 yards as the 300 Weatherby 180,and if you like romp and stomp this will provide it on both ends,being kinda like a 375 AI.I took it on an elk hunt to Arizona but as luck would have it no bull cooperated,and after having whacked a few bulls with a 300 mag and watching them crumble like poleaxed steers to 270's,30/06's and 7 mags;along with a good number of 338's and 340's as well, I just abandoned the idea,deciding that the elk were not armor plated and who needed to be clavicle-crunched that bad...???? The silly thing gave me a headache,MagnaPort and all

..thereafter all medium bores except the 375H&H have gone the way of the dodo...if I were serious about shooting elk in the next zipcode,ie making a regular habit of going past 600 yards, I'd build a 12 pound 338 Edge,Lapua, or RUM,and hire a lackey to carry it at 9000 feet,but I don't do that stuff so the elk are gonna have to be inconvenienced by being killed with a Big7 that weighs under 8 pounds.

I am not, in the slightest,concerned about the outcome.....

One of the benefits of getting older and knowing more is that one now comes in out of the cold and quits building heavy kicking rifles...

You don't have to wait for the 84L. You could just get T3 Superlight. It's half the cost and twice as accurate as a Kimber (at least mine anyway). See its even less than 7 lbs in '06 with a fairly generous scope. And yes that's 5 shots, 168 TTSX @ 2900.


Here is my T3 Lite in .338 WM, same scope 3.5x10x40 Vari-x III, a couple ounces more than the '06. I think my 84M Montana will be collecting some dust.


Just some ideas....

Mine weighs 6.5lbs with a Leupold 2.5x in Millets mounts. It shoots very well and recoil isn't that bad.

I have a Remington XCR II in 338 Win. mag with a Leupold VX III 3.5-10x40mm that is a shooter probably use it this year more than my 300 RUM

You'd think with a name like ts300wsm you'd be using the short 300 more.....

+1

my two heavy (although not heavy kicking) .338s are going or gone, and the Kimber Montana .325 replaced them.

Fun to see this thread surface again...

I haven't killed anything with my .338 (an XCR bobbed to 22.5"), but I will concur that .325 is a whole lot of whupass, and in a Montana you've got tremendous thwack per pound of rifle there.

I'm rehabbing an injury and am a bit recoil-intolerant right now. My .338 has been parked at the back of the safe... however I did take it out and shoot at 450 yds with it for just a few rounds the other day. From prone, boom >> WHOP! three times. Love that rifle. And really, .338 recoil is no big thing (at least from my XCR).

I have a Sako Finnbear Pre Garcia in 338 Win Mag. I looked long and hard for that rifle. I recently added the exact twin in a 270. If one day the recoil is too much, I pull out the exact same rifle in 270.

I have been playing with yet another one.
.338 caliber rifles seem to keep coming back to consume the .338 bullets that seem to breed on my reloading shelves.

My latest findings using Rel 17 which is breaking 2800fps with 250 grain Nosler Paritions.

Something just keep getting better I guess, like us!

I hate to admit it but I'm going that way too.
I love my 338WMs but weight is becoming more of a factor than recoil.
My other rifles don't give up much to the boomers and are considerably lighter.
After this year and one more (maybe) I will become a paper puncher and can dig the Mags out again.

I miss Jeff.

Funny

I have 2 338's love them both. Just built a load for my m77. 210 ttsx 74 gn hunter and federal 215m primers. At 100 yds I can put 3 under a nicke. Only getting around 2800fp though.
My guns are used for elk hunting only.

Thinking about a 325 and or a 338 rcm. Just because I do not have either...

My favorite part is how Jeff started the thread in �07 and last posted in �12, still not having killed anything with the 338.

Guess I'll get my introduction to the .338 WM this weekend as a fellow just offered to trade me a Ruger 77 .338 for one of my Ruger .270's. Should be fun to try something new. And I did always like talking with Jeff O myself.

He was working on it. These things take time.

Hey Main, clearing BEEG timber offa 5 acres takes decades dont ya know?

Gunner

I posted the above a few weeks before elk season back in 2007. At that time I didn't own a .338 anything and didn't really see one in the near future. That changed in 2010 when I had a semi-custom Ruger MKII built from parts. The barrel was a 22", fluted barrel, courtesy of Bear Paw Jack, who got it as a take off from the original owner. I had planned to build a .338-375 Ruger but the 22" barrel seemed better fitted to a standard .338 WM case capacity. I worked up 225g AccuBond loads @ 2742fps - certainly not RUM velocities but easier on the shoulder and well suited to my hunting needs.

In 2011 I took it hunting for the first time. I blew the first shot, hitting above the spine (my fault entirely), but then put two more into a single elongated hole in the rib cage when it didn't drop instantly. Range was about 262 yards.


Then in 2013 I took my longest shot ever at 487 yards. The cow made it 58 yards, the furthest I've ever had one go even though placement was good.


I have to say I still think a .338WM isn't really needed for elk, but mine will see use again. This year, though, it's back to a .30-06, this time with 180g AccuBond bullets at about 2700fps.

He needs to clear it to find his way home.