My primary will be a 168 or 180 grain TTSX from a 300 Winny. I wanted to try the 150 TTSX in my 30-06, since the 30-06 will be used primarily for deer and black bear. However, the 30-06 is such nice light rifle that it might get taken along on an elk hunt, and I am a one-load-per-gun kind of guy. IO expect the 150 TTSX to achieve between 3000 and 3100 fps from my 24" barreled 30-06.

Has anyone used a 150 grain X, TSX, or TTSX on elk or other large big game? How well did it work?

Beautifully...

Got pics....grin

This should, emphasis should be a very short thread. But, for some reason or another I think it won't be.

Blaine, just run a 180 Noz in both your 06 and your 300 and call it a day.

Dober

TTSX, Banana bullets.

I love bananas... but only in breakfast cereal

Not interested in a 180 in the 30-06, though I'd expect the 150 TTSX to perform like a 180 NP ......

The NP would have to retain 83% of it's weight to weigh the same as the 150 TTSX on exit. The NP is more likely to retain 70-75%.
Now I realize the NP may--as it sheds some weight, make a bigger hole that at TTSX of the same weight. But a 30 grain ligther TTSX travelling 400 fps faster ought to expand as well........

I have killed three deer and a hog with the 168 TSX, and all I have seen is excellent performance. Wound channels taper from bullet diameter to about 2" in diameter at the exit. While it works, I think a lighter bullet travelling faster would make a bigger wound channel and still exit, amking it better for deer.

However, I wonder if the 150 TTSX will break both shoulders on an elk............

This could be interesting.

It shouldn't be. I have the speculation angle covered compeltely, but I do need data from those who have used the 30 cal X, TSX, and/or TTSX on large animals.

I cant speak on the 150's but since your asking about big critters, I put a 165 TSX out of 300 WSM through a moose, its still flying!...grin

Search some of Brad's posts on the TTSX....he's got pictures as well.

Yes, he does have pictures of recovered bullets that were recoverd from some very dead animals..

not out of a 30-06 but from wsm's and ultra mags.
very dead animals indeed. the um took a cow elk at 753 yards, bullet not to be found, hole in and out !

now to get a lil slower, i did get a cow elk at just a tad past the 250 yard line back in december with my 280 ai, and a 140 ttsx. another bullet not recovered.....

load em up and have no regrets, the 150 will do the job.

No, he has a 150 TTSX from a 308 Win

I guess I should claify. I am not looking for the debate on how old Barnes bulelts would sometimes fail to open. That problem was mostly fixed with the TSX and probably completely fixed with the TTSX.

So assuming the bullet expands like it's supposed to, is it significantly worse on elk that the 165/158/180s?

Make that: He's got A picture. A single bullet. It's not plural.

Now the heat's on!!

A 70ish hunting partner of mine shoots elk with standard vanilla 150 grain bullets out of his very old '06. They've all died.

I've shot many with Nosler Partitions from 284 to 338. Many more with cup and cores from 35s and 45-70s. None survived.

Bullet placement according to shot angle appears to have much greater effect than weight.

I think your 150 Barnes will work just fine, if you do guide it properly.

Blaine,

Based on what I used to see with the early 150 XFBs in my '06 I'd say the 150 TTSX ought to work to your complete satisfaction on elk most of the time. I once drained two caribou soundly and didn't recovered the single bullet. I'm quite sure I could have gotten three if I had tried. (I quit using that bullet after Branes decided it needed a longer ogive and the consequent skinny nose that didn't open as well or as fully.) I never did shoot my moose with that bullet like I had planned - I ran out of the ones with the better profile. I'm sure they would have worked great though even though our moose tend to dwarf many elk.

Like others however, though I have been duly impressed by the mono-coppers when they work well, I have also seen the confidence crushing results of them when they require perfect placement in order to do their work - sometimes slowly.

Since these threads tend to sometimes become about the "indian", I'll simply say that this indian gets to choose - and I quite choosing solid copper bullets a few years ago. I don't like bad "arrows", and unlike ordinary arrows, one can't tell by looking at these.

Blaine, I wish that were true.

The truth is, Randy Brooks owner of Barnes Bullets knowingly buys bad lots of copper or has the potential of being bad.
He has no control over it, it controls him and the truth is, he does not give a crap because he knows he has a fan club that will buy into anything he produces.

He does not have the capability of producing a bullet that is going to perform every time due to the material he buys.

Barnes Bullets has a history or a track record of producing bad bullets at times, this includes all types.

I personally expect better.

You're basing that off of a sample of 1 (one) TTSX bullet that failed to expand properly?



Show me a company that does.

Blaine did not ask if you liked Barnes bullets, he stated he had experience with them, and asked if anyone specifically had run a 150 TTSX through an 06 on elk. WTF kind of response is this, other than just trying to start another chit storm? Jesus!

Randy's fan club is out in force as usual.



It has nothing to do with liking them.

Blaine made this statement.



"Completely fixed"

We know for fact this is not true.

I think I know Blaine and that he wants things to work every time. The TTSX does not, I answered a questioning statement by Blaine and gave him a qualified reason.

Also, this is between us, Blaine and I, who happen to be friends, who have broken bread together and have bounced ideas off each other for some time now.

I highly respect Blaine and his experience.

How do you know this?

How do YOU know it does?

Also, as I gave a factual statement in regards to
Barnes not being able to buy good copper every time.

Their bullets are only as good as the copper they buy.

I never made a claim that it does. YOU, however made a claim and lack evidence to back it up, with the exception of ONE example of ONE bullet that didn't expand properly. Well, if that's the case, there is NO bullet in existence that works properly because EVERY bullet has failed to expand at one time or another.

I'm not saying that it's perfect. We need to be careful when we start to make assumptions and claims without any real supporting evidence.

What did the wound channel look like?

Okay, more guidance. Assume every bullet works like it's supposed to every time. Yes, we know all bullets fail sometimes, but that is a different discussion.

Compare the performance of a perfectly functioning 168 TSX or TTSX vs a 150 TTSX or TSX on elk.

You guys said the same crap about the TSX "fixing" the X when they first came out. Then we have Brad recover a unexpanded TTSX. The question is did the TTSX fix the TSX non expansion issues? Or where the issues not a design issue at all, but one of quality control of raw materials?
I dunno, and really don't care as I don't have an agenda either way. However, as a rule I don't like being a beta tester. And I dont like half azzed products that don't work as intended.

Okay I'm officially banning talk of bullet failure.

How does the 150 TSX/TTSX compare to the 168 TSX/TTSX on elk?

Judging by other Barnes bullets the hollow points are probably drilled to the same depth on the 168 and 150. Thus the resulting frontal area and ultimately wound channel will be about the same with a slight edge in penetration going to the heavier bullet and a slight edge in initial wound channel volume going to the faster 150gr bullet.

Dude you dont know the first [bleep] thing about what fan clubs I am in or not in, nor what bullets I use or dont use and which guns I use em in. So please dont pool me into chit! I have killed critters of all sizes and shapes with a lot of different bullets in a lot of different guns in a lot of different states. The thread isn't about Nosler Partitions vs Barnes TSX's or any other bullet for that matter. Why must you guys insist on this bullchit on every [bleep] thread about bullets? Its as if many of you are turning multiple forum sctions into the same bullchit that was going on with the optics forum and the E vs everyone or Leupold vs everythinge else. Just [bleep] drop it already, if you dont want to kill chit with a TSX, dont. Arguing about whether or not Barnes has fixed anything, in any specific bullet, is strictly your opinion and you know what they say about opinions....

Cant say I really looked at it Blaine, it was low light and cold out, moose went maybe 50 yards on a dead run after being hit and then crashed and died. Small hole going in and just slightly smaller than a golf ball size hole going out, broke a rib on both entry and exit. This was evident because I kept both rib cages with meat to take home intact. Shot was about 80 yards.

I haven't used the 150gr TTSX on elk but I did kill my 2008 bull with a 165gr TSX out of my 300WM. This load has a MV of 3275fps. The bull was broadside at about 150 yards and the bullet hit him in the shoulder area. The ribcage on the entry side had about a 1 1/2 inch hole in it and the ribcage on the exit side had about a 1/2 inch hole in it and there were two broken petals under the hide and the rest of the bullet went through making a tiny slit in the hide for an exit wound.

I was butchering him myself and the weather was getting bad so I didn't do a thorough autopsy. This was a mature 5x6 herd bull (the fifth point on the '5' side was broken off) and at the shot I could tell he was hurting. He went about 50 yards.

I guess the bullet did its job and I'll be using this combo again as it is very accurate and flat shooting.

"Why must you guys insist on this bullchit on every [bleep] thread about bullets?"

Yep. Want to start at 200+ response post? Here's a sample: "I just wanted to know if anyone has had the same experience as me. I used bullet "___" and it failed to (you choose): expand/penetrate/kill the animal/retain enough weight/didn't leave a blood trail/the animal ran off/the exit hole was a pencil....etc. My friend uses bullet Y and never had that problem. I think that bullet X is a crappy bullet and I'll never use it again..."

Now sit back, grab some popcorn, and watch the brawl ensue.

Thank you for your comments and I should have realized your a
person who has emotional issues, sorry man.





Wow, cool!

I hear ya, its just that normally this forum is a pretty cool place to bullchit, but here lately the nonsense with Leupold scopes and Barnes bullets has gotten really [bleep] old. And to make matters worse, its the same guys on every damm thread running their mouths. Even Dober and Brad who actually had questionable performance from a TSX this year were more cordial than the usual peanut gallery that spends 8 posts picking a fight and never even answer the OP's actual question!

I think we have a new record here. Looks like this thread went sideways in less than two pages. Congratulations.

Thanks. Sounds like the 150 would work on elk then.

Bill,

Thanks.

Blaine the 150 TSX or TTSX will work very well indeed on Elk. The difference in penetration won't be a penny's worth of difference..

You're welcome.

I guess I should say that I shot my 2005 bull (another mature one i.e. large body) three times through the chest with my .338WM using 225gr A-frames and he never even flinched. He just stood at the edge of the timber looking for what had poked him in the side! He turned around and headed into the woods and I thought crap! I've missed this guy three times and have lost him. I got down to where I last saw him and he was dead just inside the trees. He had three exit wounds about 1 1/2 to 2 inches in diameter and his shoulders were in really bad shape. I didn't get much meat off of them.

Even though the bullet I shot my last year's bull with didn't make much of an exit wound and a couple of petals broke off, it did a job on him as he was really hurting immediately. I guess when a fairly light bullet going over 3,000fps hits a very large animal's hide, meat and bones, strange things can happen.

Please pass the popcorn and have Mable bring another cold one.

Wayne

Bob: Is that like a "tourist bullet".....?

Well it's 5 degrees here and there's not much to do!

I took my only Elk with a 140 Tipped TSX from a 7 Wby @ 3400 fps engaged at 60 yards. THe bullet struck the critter on the front right shoulder, crushed it, continued to the vitals, mushed them, exited the inside right groin (?), rentered the right ham and exited the rump. The Elk staggered thirty yards and fell over. As far as I know, the bullet is up there with George Jetson somewhere.

Bill,

Did you get my PM?

Hehehe,

No man, the tourist bullets work better!

Yep, they kill very well, after all the "so called failure" have all been recovered from Very Dead Animals

While the bullets that I, Brad and Chuck Nelson found were in animals the animals were only dead after more ammo was directed their way.

I know for sure that the one that I had fail this year could of easily never been recovered and the fact that we got lucky and recovered it doesn't to my way of thinking change it from anything but a bullet failure. I am fairly sure that Chuck and Brad would agree with me on such a thing.

Bottom line for me, I've seen a lot of game taken with the TSX (most likely as much or more than most out there). When they open they do their work very well, just like about any other bullet out there. But, when they don't open then one can easily have issues, some times we get lucky and hammer the critter down and I would imagine that there are more than a few times when people (and the critter) haven't gotten lucky and the animal has gotten away. May well be that there is more of this going on than we know of and if the critters had been recovered people would of found out?

The TSX is an excellent bullet when it opens and does it's stuff. But, there is no denying the fact that from time to time it doesn't open up. This type of thing comes up often enough for me to go hmm...?
To me it is unacceptable performance (for that bullet not to open) whether we get poop house lucky and find or put the game down or not.

Just my thoughts, not saying anyone else is wrong, just different is all.

Have a super Saturday all!

Dober

Yes I did, sorry.

Without any question I'd use a Tourist Bullet any day over the TTSX. In my case I like the Speer Hotcore.

Dats a blue collar bullet though...grin

Dober

True... what was I thinking?!

Blue Collar Bullets are the ones that do all the work but don't get any of the credit.

The TTSX is a White Collar Bullet... you know, the young, flashy, overpaid, know-it-all MBA types who've ruined our country!

A Tourist Bullet is just a Blue Collar bullet taken on an out of state hunting trip

I reload 150 Core-Lokts for elk. Reading this they perhaps must be placed below the "blue" bullets. Black and blue perhaps?. Elk don't seem to konw this and die anyway.

I always hear people say that "when they work, they work very well, but when they fail, they fail miserably"

Is there a bullet in existence that this statement doesn't apply to?
I don't think it's just the TSX. I'm not a fanatical Barnes fan, although I know they're out there, but I get sick of hearing extremist comments from those who are equally fanatical anti-Barnes zealots. Let's just keep it real guys! The TSX is a good bullet. So is the partition. So is the A-frame, and so on. When they work, they work well. When they fail, they may or may not kill the animal. That's life. Luckily I've never had a bullet fail, so they're ALL good bullets to me. I just choose to use the TSX primarily for my big game hunting. Nothing wrong with the others though, if that's what you wanna use.

There's more than a few people with a lot of experience with a variety of bullets who have said basically the same thing you just said....until they've been burned a time or three by Barnes product. I don't know what it is about these copper bullets that makes one feel the way they feel when it happens; perhaps it the fact that they work spectacularly when they work, and failure is so far the other way. In any case it doesn't seem to be the same sense that one has about failures in other ways. And you won't "get it" until it gets you. It's a confidence thing that way I see it. But I also understand the reasoning behind game laws which require expanding bullets.

Amen. Couldn't have expressed it better myself!!

I'll be a little more blunt though. When the chips are down and there's elk to be shot, there's a Partition up the snout.

Wayne

Just for reference, dont know that much about the TSX. I killed an elk with one a few years ago. Bang flop at 200 yards. However, a freind of mine has killed a bull everytime he draws a tag. All of them have been bang flops, or within 20 yards, with a 150gr factory loaded CLs out of his 7mm RM. I think what killed them quickly was that he either shot them through the neck or through the spine, and not so much the bullet type.

Look, you buffoon, moron, knuckleheads I am proud to call friends............

I told you guys I was not intersted in a pissing match about TSX failures. What part of that did you not understand!? Do I need to stand you at attention and yell it in your face!? How can I make this more clear!?

Take your BS pissing match about TXS failures somewhere else. I am not interested.

BTW, for those of who who tried to answer my question, thanks.

What I want to know is how the 30 cal, 150 TSX/TTSX at an MV of 3000-3100 fps performs on elk, and I told you to assume it would exapnd properly. (Something else you apparrently didn't understand.) My main concern is is this bullet heavy enough to reliably penetrate elk shoulders?

Yes

Plus one on the TXS penetrating a Elk shoulder.

Problemo with this is that some of us buffons, moron's, knuckleheads and so on have enough experience with the TSX to know that we shouldn't be assumming that'll expand properly.

Now if it does, then yes you'll have no problems.

Dober

Dober,
I'm pretty sure it'll penetrate the elk shoulder, even if it does fail to expand

I wouldn't want to be hit by a 130 grain TSX going 3000+ ft/second, even if it didn't expand properly.

Lots of elk have been killed with 130 grain bullets shot from .270s. Even though the sectional density of the .308 150 grain bullet is slightly lower, I really don't think you need to worry about penetration.

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings, which is very easy to do on the Campfire, and that is why I was specific in what I asked. It would have hurt peoples feelings for me to say the TSX haters get too emotional and start overblowing things, to the point of them losing credibility with me. What we have is a small group of people who holler long and loud about what they dislike. They treat the exception as the rule and attach their pride to it. I am am too old to put up with that BS. Because I rarely participate in TSX threads, I forgot it had become such an contentious issue, and I was a stupid, moronic, buffoon knucklehead for even asking the question.

I wonder if there are better places to get information than here? You can't talk about Barnes Bullets, Toyota trucks, Leupold scopes, theories of origins, etc; on the Campfire without guys getting their panties in a bunch. It is getting AWFULLY old..............

Hi Blaine,

Here is my opinion, in this case based solely on "I heard..." and "I think...".

It will penetrate an elk shoulder reliably.

It is not the BEST choice. That's a whole nuther topic though.

Just my opinion. I've only killed 2 elks and been around another 7-8 killed so give my thunks as much or little weight as you see fit.

Have a good 'un!

So the TSX or TTSX is the only bullet that you have ever needed to put more than one into an animal?

Ya know Blaine, there's likely not one person on this entire forum that's shot more stuff with the TSX since they came out than Dobrenski. Heck, he was part of their "advisory" team.

The only one here who has their "panties in a bunch" is you. Me, I really don't take any of this seriously... it's a friggin bullet.

Why don't you spend four or five years with the damn bullet yourself and report back?

Brad, are you saying that the TSX is not a perfectly beautiful object?

More or less (grin).

Brad,

Who do you think you are trying to fool? You are one of the quickest persons on this forum to start calling other people names. You have always been that way. While there ain't none of us that are guilty of that, don't try to BS anyone that you don't take this stuff way too seriously. You have way too much history for that claim to fly..........



Wow, that is a genius statement. The whole idea of asking question you frickin' moron is to learn from what others have done. However, some of you guys are to wrapped in your in little panties-in-a-bunch world of overstatement and ego that you can't recognize and honest question from an challenge to your ego.

PISS ON YOU ALL!!!!!!

ah jeez..

+1

Wow...

Who wants to go to Shedhorn in the morning?

Sam, I've got 200 gr Partitions loaded and am headed to the range in the a.m. barring catastrophic wind

You have the 25 Bobs in mind?

Shedhorn? I wonder if they've got Varget..

Damn the wind Brad!

I'm thinking Bob in a big way.....grin


Johnny, if your down let me know. Otherwise I'll grab you a jug or two if they have it on the shelf.
It'll be a quick trip.

What time is kickoff anyway, around 2?

If you didn't want to hear a few "maybees" and "nos", why did you phrase the question in such a way that it could be possible? If you only want to hear "yes", all you have to do is PM the right individuals. It's not rocket science. Then again, neither is putting a bullet through the shoulder_ of a big animal. Plural may get you different results depending.

Brad posted earlier that Dober had shot or seen shot about 50 animals with the TSX bullets will one "so called" failure that came out of a "Dead" animal. well that's a 98% perfect reuslts with less than perfect 2% of the time.

Between myself and 6 others we have near 100 kills with all perfectly satisfifing results. Excellent odds IMHO

Blaine the TSX's that Federal loads from 243 to 470 Nitro there is only an 8% difference in penetration from the least to the most. The 150 TSX in the 30-06 will make short work of an Elk.

Big plus++

This was my first year, using Barnes bullets. I used the 150 grain T-TSX in my 30-06. These bullets grouped real nice, acuracy was top shelf. I was able to reach velocity that satisfied me.

I killed two W/T Deer with this bullet, this year. I know, Deer are not hard to kill. My first year using them, they shot good. They got the green light from me to use.

I felt I needed to test this bullet on these Deer. The two deer that I shot, were angling away shots. All bullet made exits. From looking at the Deer the bullet did expand. Nice wound channels.

From the amount penetration I got on these Deer I would have no reservation using them on Elk.

These bullets are not my favorite bullet. I just don't have anything negative at this time.

I used Ramshot Hunter for my best loads. This powder is easy to work with.



The group on the left is 61 grains and the other is 62.2 grains of Hunter.



This is the speed of the 62.2 grain load. The 61 grain load was just 25 fps less.

I have a Buddy, who also, was his first year with this bullet.
He used a Kimber 300 WSM. He too killed two W/T Deer with like results.

He and I are going on a Red Stag hunt this spring. We will be using this bullet. More testing to follow.

Sorry for this being so long.

Take Care

The target, each group is 3 shot.

150 TTSX's group well... no, VERY well in my rifles. That doesn't mean they're a worthy elk bullet all the time.

Kill some elk with them and report back.

It's not at all hard to shoot all the way through a deer with a 30-06; in fact I'd venture that it's hard NOT to. I've done it with Core-lokts and Accubonds from a 30-06. The Accubond penetrated a LOT of deer after hitting shoulder bone and then exited the opposite flank.

Still it seem clear that the proper answer to Blain's question is that yes, they will penetrate an elk shoulder. I mean I can't ever remember hearing a tale of woe, where a TSX didn't PENETRATE... penetration isn't the problem with them, if indeed there is a problem...

Brad, I agree. I don't even think I would use these bullets on an Elk. I think, I said they were not my favorite. This is the first year I used them. I do think they will penetrate an Elk shoulder with no problem.

I have used the following bullets to kill Elk. Nosler Partitions, # 1 right there. Hornady Interlock this is another good bullet, Nosler Ballistic tip only in 30 cal. 180 grain. Swift A-frame, Sierra Pro-Hunter.
These bullets have all worked very well for me. I would use any of these bullets again on any given Elk hunt.
Agian I'm not a big fan of the Barnes Bullets, there are people out there who use them with great success.

So have a good evening.

Jeff
We all know it's not hard to shot through a Deer. Yes I now. When I shot these Deer I waited till I had the quartering away shot so I could see what the bullet did to the Deer when I did the autopsy. I passed on the broadside shot.

Have a good one.

Yeah... my bad Hammerdown, sorry. Re-reading my post it came off all wrong.

Jeff
No harm, you are okay by me.

6x6, with Vanguard 300 WM, 130 gr. Barnes TTSX, 80 to 100 yds. One shot through shoulder and lungs about six inches below top of rib cage, into offside shoulder, no exit, no deflection. Ran about 30 yds and dropped dead. Lungs were destroyed.

Well Sir
You have a very nice Bull.

Good for you.

Did you recover the bullet? Pictures!!!

No, I didn't go after the bullet. At the time I was alone, and my immediate challenge was getting him that 80 or so yards to where I could get my truck in. By the time I got to the butcher shop, I pretty much didn't care about the bullet.

Butcher weight...skinned and trimmed...was 445 lbs. 230 on the front half, and 215 on the rear.

I tend to have my best luck when nobody is around to help me with the damn things after they're dead.

Well, you did just fine.

[/b]What I want to know is how the 30 cal, 150 TSX/TTSX at an MV of 3000-3100 fps performs on elk, and I told you to assume it would exapnd properly. (Something else you apparrently didn't understand.) My main concern is is this bullet heavy enough to reliably penetrate elk shoulders?[/b]


[/quote]

Without entering the debate my quick answer is yes, without question a 150 30 caliber TTSX will penetrate any living elk adequately for a kill.

My experience in 2007 1 bull @ 425 yards full penetration 140 gr TSX @ 3200fps from .280AI. Through and through, no bullet recovery, dead elk. In 2008 same gun, same load but with 140 gr TTSX @ 125 yards. Through and through, no bullet recovery, dead elk.

I obviously do not have the expertise of the vast number of debaters and this is a minute sample but adequate to convince me of sufficient penetration capabilities of 140 gr TSX/TTSX in .280 and that penetration capability of 150 gr TTSX in '06 would be equal or better.

Blaine,
I've always managed to have a lighter than "recommended" gun in my hand when elk hunting. The closest comparisons I can make are these:
I killed a huge bodied bull with a .270 WSM 130 Gr. TSX last fall. Blew through both shoulders at over 350 yards but he still pushed himself into the timber about 40 yards away.
I killed two smaller elk this year a .264 Win Mag with 140 gr Partitions. Penetrated both shoulders, and made some big holes.
Both these loads have smaller entrance holes, but have even less weight but similar velocities to your 150 gr .30-06 at 3100.
Oh and I did have a 150 gr Nosler Partition completely penetrate a bull elk's shoulders out of .280 from about 50 yards. So that's 150 grains, less stoutly constructed and a little slower (2800 fps) doing what you're looking for.
Here's the .270 WSM 130 TSX bull: