I'm putting my boy in for a youth elk hunt (http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/press_releases/documents/2009/102009moreelkhunts.html) and am looking for advice on a specific round that I don't have experience with. I want to start him small and make sure he does not end up with a flinching problem.

He will eventually end up with a dedicated youth rifle, but today I need to make do with what I already have. The best suited rifle that is already paid for is a lightweight .308 Win. carbine. It fits him well. I can borrow a youth stocked bull barrel .243 Win. I also have access to a .250-3000 Savage and SKS and Model 94.

He is a pretty decent shot with a light .223, .22 LR, etc.

So, here is the question, Does anybody have experience with Remington Managed-Recoil in .308 on elk? It is a cow hunt. Ranges for similar timed hunts have been longish when I have done them, but with patience we can get it to 200, maybe 100 yards.

I'm inclined to go with the .308 - any thoughts?

I've shot a few elk with the .308, but not with the Remington Managed Recoil load. It strikes me that the load is better suited to deer. Penetration would be my concern with the .308 and that light bullet. If you handload, a Nosler partition 150 grain at about 2600fps would be a better choice IMHO. In factory loads, a .243 with full power 100 gr. TSX would be a top choice for a very low recoil elk killer. If he can shoot most accurately with the .308 and the managed recoil load, a bullet in the ribs from broadside will work, no matter what bullet it is....

Have him practice with the managed recoil, then you sight it in for a suitable elk hunting load. The one time he has to pull the trigger hunting won't be a problem. Or, you could try him on the regular 308 loads and see how he does first. Make sure he has double hearing protection. The sound causes flinching almost as much as recoil (at least when it's limited to 308 levels).

No experience with the Remington load.
If you reload you may want to try Hogdons "youth" load where you load your choosen bullet weight with 60% of the maximum charge of 4895.
Depending on the "carbine" I would think if your boy is big enough to go elk hunting he should be able to handle the recoil from normal 150 gr factory loads, especially if you have him wear a past pad or something similar during practice sessions.

Just went and looked that 308 load is a 125 gr bullet. I'ld be pretty leary of what might happen if that stubby bullet ran into an elks shoulder blade. I'm not sure it'ld have what it needs to go on thru to the vitals. Probably be alright on a ribcage or head shot, but.......

what he said.

my 12 yr old just got back from a youth elk hunt with me & I had him shooting his m70 ftw in 30-06. load was federal fusion 165 gr.

He has shot the rifle up to this point with reduced recoil loads, even taken a deer with one. but i had him practice in a rest this summer with some regular blue box federal 150's & he did well with it, then before the elk hunt I sighted his rifle for him with the 165 fusions.

He fired the rifle 3 times on the cow he shot. One took the cow down, one botched "finishing" sot & one successful finishing shot.

I asked him later how the recoil felt, he said he couldn't remember.

federal uses a different approach to there reduced recoil load for 30-06, it's actually a heavier slug, 180 IIRC.

not sure if they have one for the .308 but i'm thinking that heavier slug might have a better chance of carrying the energy into the animal.

hmm, quick search came up with something I didn't know existed, a "fusion lite"

http://www.eabco.com/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?preadd=action&key=022-F308FSLR1

170 gr JSP @ 2000fps

I'd think that would get inside a cow ok.

Yup that federal load should do fine on any elk.

It's 6 pound Mohawk 600, cut down to 36" OAL. Handy in the woods but it kicks.

I'm leaning towards getting a couple boxes of each and see what works best. If it's the Rem load, have him practice with that and probably shoot more conventional stuff during the hunt.

Thanks guys.

Remington's managed recoil, usually uses some of the lighter bullets...its major focus is deer..

however, I have dissected several of the rounds in different calibers... it is easily duplicated..

they are using IMR 4198 powder, or something with a very similar burn rate...RL 7 would be a good substitute..

at that lower MV, I would highly recommend a 150 grain ballistic tip..or a Barnes TSX or Tipped TSX..

Start at about 30 grains of either powder and work up until he hits his comfort threshold or until he is happy with it..

in the 06 Rem MR... the charge of 4198 is 36 grains with a 125 grain bullet..

for my nephew in Montana when he was younger...and before Managed Recoil came out..I loaded up him some 4198 ( 32 grains) with a 165 grain Ballistic Tip..

that round took a 650 lb, 11y/o elk cow... with the bullet penetrating all the way thru the animal without exiting... the bullet was buldged just under the hide on the far side...

it was shot broadside as it ran at a gallop at 175 yds...

the shot destroyed both lungs, the upper half of the liver and cut the esophagus..the animal made it 50 yds and collapsed...

My experience with the Rem .308 managed recoil loads is they are not accurate, even in a tikka that shoots MOA with factory ammo. Probably a 3 - 5" group at 100yds.

They are a good option for experience on the range. But not the best in the field for a NA large animal. I loaded some light loads of 150gr hollow points, light recoil and accurate with solid ballistic results on whitetails.

Not feeling the recoil or hearing the shot when they are in the field is a true statement! You can manage a standard factory load for the field shot when at the range it will be a lot more felt recoil.

I have kids, and a wife that shoots a little bit "too much gun"

So I have also experimented with factory offerings in reduced recoil.

I found the federal offerings to be very accurate and I like the heavier slugs they use.

The 125 and 130 grain loads are just fine for cow elk hunting at reasonable ranges (under 300 yards). I have run the 130 grain Hornady bullets up to 3,200 fps. in the .30-06 and shot deer and antelope with them. They dug deep and mushroomed perfectly. I shot some Remington 125 reduced recoil loads last weekend and they have PLENTY of zip for elk. They may not break both shoulders, but they sure as heck will break one. A rib shot will be a piece of cake. It doesn't take much at all to get through the ribs/lungs/chest. Don't over think it and you SURE don't need a 180 grain premium bullet. Premiums would be a mistake at reduced velocity. Stick with cup and core for your boy at lower velocities and you will be fine. If you are going to load for him, the 165 grain Nosler Ballistic tip at 2,400-2,500 will hammer even the biggest bull elk. I have shot elk with them for years in a .30-06 at 2,850 fps. They always dig deep, pile them up on the spot and are found under the skin on the off side. Great bullet for under 2,900 fps. Flinch

Update:

Ended up going with the 308 and Federal Fusion Lite (170 grain) for practice. The Rem load was on backorder everywhere I looked. I kept him to 3-4 shots per session, and got a SVL recoil pad. Can't say enough good about that pad. The Lite load grouped well, but runs out of killing steam too soon and drops too much at distance (10" difference between 100 and 200 yard point of impact).

So, we went with full power Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Tip 165 grain for the hunt. It's point of impact was drastically different than the Lites, but that's what those little knobs hanging off the scope tube are for!

It worked. Well. One shot @ 184 yards through both lungs and probably the top of the heart. One lunge, 3 steps and dead. He did not remember the recoil either.

And that's pretty close to what I did for my two sons. The youngest took his first moose when he was 11 years old with a 308 housed in a Rem660. He used the Federal Premium 180-gr. Partition loading, but when practicing he used lighter loads. He never noticed the recoil when shooting at game.

Good for him, you never feel the recoil when you are hunting anyway. Now don't forget the cooking part. Learning to prepare a meal is just another part of what makes hunting special.

Moose is good! Wrap a roast in aluminum foil, include some pepper, garlic, and a package of Lipton's onion soup. Stick it in the oven with a meat thermometer and take it out when it's done to your satisfaction.

Let him shoot the Remington Managed Recoil Ammo. Just ask him to shoot a small Elk if he has an option. There is a difference between a 200 lb and an 800 lb Elk. Tell him the smaller Elk will taste better.

Congrats and thanks for the update with what worked for you guys! I'm glad to see more people taking the approach of building up to bigger rounds, rather than start out big and get bad and sometimes irreversible habits!

I thought I heard Remington did away with the managed recoil ammo a while back. It's still on their website, but I thought it wasn't making money for them.

Maybe they have stopped manufacturing. You'd have to call them to know. But it's still out on store shelves.

He shot the first one that presented a clean opportunity. She was definitely not the little one in the herd!