Has anyone experienced a measurable or percieved difference in performance between the 7mm rem mag and 7mm mashburn when hunting Elk, particularly at ranges under 200 yds?

Might I also add; what mag length do you need to build the mashburn on? Is it the Taylor length or the full length H&H?

There are several versions of 7mm's using a belted case designed by Art Mashburn. You are probably thinking of the one used by Warren Page and Bob Hagel. It is the "Super" version. Page's rifle had a 3.38" magazine box and Hagel's FN Mauser had a 3.55" length. The longer box allows the bullets to be seated further out assuming that the throat is also lengthened. Page got over 3000 fps in a 22" barrel with the 175's he was fond of, so overall length is not the only factor. My two 7mm RM's have been able to move 175 partitions at 2950+ in a 24" tube.

If the 7 Rem is throated so the 175's are seated at the base of the neck then the difference is about 100 fps. or less. If you use a Rem standard chamber cut and COAL and SANE pressures then the 7 Rem. is about 250 fps +/- less. Bob Hagel has a very good article in the Handloader super book that explains that very well. Total usable case capacity/COAL/box length and load developed pressure are the key factors.

Super Mashburn's Rule!

LMAO, would have been a gem if you used "200 yards or less".

This is what happens when it's too f'ing hot to shoot I guess...

edited, 200 yds

Make that 201 yds and I'll chime in...

Seriously, it's gonna be tough to find many that have much experience on killing many elk with both rounds. Fairly easy to find people who've killed tons with the RM but not many have done it with both.

As you know I've been a heavy Mashburn user for years and have gone thru 3 barrels with the round. And, I will go to the 4th tube as soon as the real estate market treats me better..

I've also been there done that and bought the t-shirt a lot with the 7 RM. Both thru my use and thru seeing friends bounce elk with the round.

I'm a member of the 50/50 club on elk, meaning I'm over 50 years old (did I just utter that?), and I've been in and around on the taking of over 50 head of elk. IMO you'd have to bounce one heck of a lot more elk than I have to be able to discern any diff tween the two rounds on elk. Pretty much like the diffs tween the 280 and the 7 RM. Or the 06 and the 300 WSM and so on..

The Mashburn is one of my all time fav rounds, and if I had to do all my hunting with just one round it would be my go to. (and you know how much I like the .270)

I like the Mashburn cause it gives me more gas than the 7 RM and hits speed without horsing it as much. And cause I was lucky as heck to get to know Hagel and it was one of his fav rounds it became one of my fav rounds and I am sort of a sentimental turd (or maybe just mental)

Bottom line a long throated 7 RM gives one heck of a lot of performance. Plus one can/could still use factory ammo and cross international lines easier.

The Mashburn will give day in and day out 150 fps or so more gas. I know there will be exceptions to this cause of fast/slow barrels and differing ways of how people go about loading their rounds. IE some people will push things harder than my experience has taught me is prudent. And I was a long time President of the Red Liners club so I feel I've earned the right to speak on this.

Pretty sure the Mashburn gives a bit less case trimming as well and to me I'll do about anything to eliminatge case trimming...grin

Bottom line, use what turns your crank and go forth and fill up some arks..

Dober

Mark,

Maybe it was what the 7 rem should have been.

Absolutely!!!

Dober

Seems like the Mashburn Super hits the sweet spot for currently available powders for a 7 mag. the Dakota is right there too.

These two get about all you can out of a 7 mag and are right on the heels of the STW & 7x300 Weatherby in some rifles equaling or exceeding them others just slightly behind.

Way high on the Cool factor. What action was Warren Pages on, any photos?

At 200 yards Elk would probably take 1.3 less steps when hit with the Mashburn, but the long throated 7RM complicates this.

Red liner's club.........

Pages was on a Mauser. I've got two, one on a Mauser and one on a 700.

Dober

Two things: First you will never notice any difference within 200 yards assuming equal bullets and same shot placement.

Second. The comments about the Mashburn v Remington illustrate how someone's favorite ctg attains magic levels of performance. The Super Mashburn has about the same case capacity as a 300 Win. JB's formula for increased velocity as a function of increased capacity does not support the idea that the Mashburn is faster than the Remington by 250fps. An old article in Shooting Times contained data on a 7STW which was compared to a 7 Remington. The same barrel was rechambered from the Remington to the STW. A strain gauge was used to verify that the pressures were the same. The difference between the two was something over 100 fps and the STW is a lot bigger than the Super Mashburn.

Actually, I think the Super is the optimal case for a big 7 so don't think that I am not a fan. I would own one if I didn't hate making cases. There are a lot of different throat configurations and lengths in 7 Rem chambers which may account for some of the issues regarding the Rem. Also the "standard" pressure levels are a lot lower than used in the cartridges to which it is compared.

I tried the same test with the 280 and then punched it to an AI. At equal pressures there was about 40fps difference.

Push any of these to the pressures of a 7 Weatherby, and the picture changes.

Winchester brass 12% harder than Weatherby brass in the lot that I had Rockwell tested. Pressures had the primers falling out of the Weatherby brass in two firings and could go 12+ in the harder brass.

Mash the gas!

I would ditto dat.....and all Dober says as well...

This is fun and games....any self respecting 7 magnum slut should own both....!

Personally I prefer the 160 Nosler Acubond for that case. My Mashburn runs about 3250 fps. with what I feel are safe pressures (RL-25 powder), YMMV, and the trajectory is great. If you can't kill it with one of those bullets and 3" high at 100 sighting (on at about 310 yds) you should just quit and use a slingshot. Any elk out to about 450 yds. is an on the hair shot and no need for dots or come ups or other messing around. Simple/fast, all you need is an accurate range finder.

LOL right on!

Doc: Yup!

My choice is 7 RM over any other 7mm. Outside of that a 7mm WSM or Weatherby would be ahead of wildcats just because of the wildcat being extra work with marginal reward.

SD: All true of course....

Dude, Don't harsh my mello.

Yep.
Part of the fun of having something a touch different is that it is unique to the user. That is what makes us rifle loons, anyway.