Flat trajectory. Massive downrange energy. Sub MOA accuracy from many rifle and handload combos. High but manageable recoil in most rifle weights. Almost unlimited bullet selection, and widely universal availability of factory ammo, if needed
If you were on a trophy hunt for big bulls, could you really come up with a better choice?
For myself, the next bull will fall to another TSX, 165 or 180 gr, with extreme confidence.
Why undergun yourself with lesser armament, or overrun yourself with higher recoil?
If Roy himself were around today, I'm guessing he would endorse his 300 as perfection on elk.

I like the round, but I can produce dead elk with many rounds including some with less bump. But, make no doubt about it it's a mighty fine round.

Personally and this is very hard for me to say but if given a choice I'd prefer a 300 WSM over the Wby.

And, get ready for the left hook but I way prefer my 7 Mashburn Super to all of them...

Dober

300 H&H - you might as well use the daddy 300 mag.

I own a 300 Win Mag and have always considered "any" of the big 30's as the best of the best for elk at both short and long range. I am also very fond of the Big 7's.
I have shot many deer with the 300's with little meat loss, you just have to pick your shot carefully.

I have killed around 40 elk with a 30-06, but as I get older and less sneaky, I find the 300 WBY to be the perfect gun.

I be seeing ya Friday night, we can cuss n discuss this then...

Personally, I likey your 25/35!

Dober

Guess I can still sneak, so I stick with the 30/06. CB

For me, a 300 Wby for open country and possible long range shots; a short, 20" barrel Ruger 77 in 338 RCM for aspen, wooded country and timber.
I only added the 338 this year after sticking between trees in dark timber too many times with the 24" barreled Weatherby last year.

I'm thinkin' old Roy would probably still take the .257 Bee to all others...

As for myself, I'm a Big 7 man.

I used to hunt elk with a .300 Wby.
Then I killed a few, just as dead, with an -06.

$3 per shell Accumark that weights 780 pounds v. $1 per shell Ultra Lightweight that weighs about as much as a 6 pack of Talls.

Hmmm...


P

I used the 300 Weatherby on elk and smaller stuff, but at the same time was using a 300 Win Mag throated "long" for the same things.They were as alike as two peas in a pod and I loved them both for their flat trajectory and terminal effect.Pretty hard to trump either one with everything from 165's to 200 gr.

But I no longer use them because to keep recoil manageable,the rifles have to be heavier to lug and in rough country I don't want to put up with this, although some do not mind the extra rifle weight at all.

Over the years I also found I could put up a 7mm magnum of some sort that weighed a pound or so less,and recoiled less,and the game ended up just as dead.

But there is just no doubt the 300 Weatherby may be the best 300 magnum of the bunch.

Oh 300sav kind of rings my bell. Got more then one with it.

Kawi I am betting you have...

280 Remington or 30-06. No elk have ever been able to complain. The 300 Weatherby is a fine one though I'll give you that!
David

When you have the rifle and cartridge that is at the top of the ladder there is no need to go further. The 300 Weatherby is a cartridge of the present and the future and will be for your lifetime, after that who cares.

I've had two, a Euromark, and an Accumark. Nice rifles, but as I grew older I found I didn't like the recoil impulse, or the weight of the Accumark. It seemed to me the recoil was faster than a .338 Win Mag or a 375 H&H. All that said, I have to agree its the best of the 30 caliber medium mags. I've not shot any of the Ultras, or the Lazz, or the 30-378.

Worse shooting rifle I ever had was a Weatherby.Even thier guarantee is only 3"at 100 or was.
No doubt the cartridge it is an elk stopper,especially for the long distance snipers, but I would have to stop before I'd say it is the best elk medcine. Fact is, I'd be hard pressed to say any one rifle or cartridge is the all around best.
If one gets into specifics,now that is a differnt story.

A 300 or 338 for open country and a 45-70 for timber hunting I think is the ticket for elk. And good bullets are a must.

Any of the 300's mag are great elk guns,but when you get serious about it,the .338's shine.The .340 WBY mag has to be my choice followed by the .338 RUM in factory guns.
BBJ

The 300 WBY is a fine all NA big game round, but elk live along way from me, so I use the 300's big bro, an old custom 28" barreled 338-378 and 225 TTSX's @3350, it works

Gunner

For those who may have missed it, here's an article on the .300 Wby. by Mule Deer-

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/October_2008.html

Love the 300wby. I've had a half dozen (USA and Japan) and all were sub-moa shooters. Took my last elk with a Fibermark. If I have another it'll be on a 700 wearing Krieger & McMillan.

Its just pure poison!

I have used the .30-06, .300 WSM, .300 Win Mag, .300 Wby, .338-06, .338 Win Mag, 9.3x74R and .375 H&H on elk. I could never tell that any one of those killed quicker or "better" than the other. However, I don't shoot elk at extreme ranges, so the differences in trajectories (which are pretty much negligible at ranges less than 300-350 yds) don't bother me.

Bighorn:

I steer away from Weatherby calibers because you have to buy Weatherby ammo at $65/box. I have killed 33 elk using a 30-06 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions leaving the tube at 2,880 fps. I think the middle calibers, anything from as small as .270 to as big as .338 magnum, are best suited for elk hunting. I recommend a minimum of 150 grain controlled expansion bullets. A 30-30 will kill an elk but its� range is limited to about 200 yards. It�s my opinion that anything bigger than a .338mag is more gun than necessary and I don�t enjoy the recoil of those big calibers. A well placed shot from just about any legal caliber will kill an elk but nothing will work right with bad bullet placement, so one needs to use a caliber with which they are comfortable and competent and take the time to get it right the first time.

KC

few of us could pick a good wife, or hope to pick the best possible wife for a friend and few of us can select a friends ELK rifle, personally I think the 340 wby or 375 H&H is a better choice, most likely because I seldom see elk past 300-350 yards and I like having a bit more bullet mass, my late hunting partner thought I was magnum crazy, and used a BLR in 358 win , pushing 250 grain speer bullets at only 2300fps, for 30 plus years and never had the least problem killing elk.
the 300 wby is certainly a fine choice , but like wives a bit of each rifles charm is in the eye of the beholder

Be using one since the mid eighties. Kills elk DRT.

Reading ballistic tables, the .300 Weatherby with 200 grain bullets may be the best elk CARTRIDGE though I think a .340 Weatherby with a 225 is as good or better.

However, I don't care for the weight of the rifles I need them in for me to handle the recoil. Therefore I don't hunt them.

I am just as happy with a 165-180 in my '06 or a 210-225 in my .338. My .308 Norma with a 180-200 may be the best of all, I just don't hunt it much either.

I've killed elk with all kinds of calibers and rifles. I've seen all kinds used for elk hunting as well. The Weatherby gives you 100 yards more range and energy than a .30-06. The Weatherby has a LOT more recoil, expense and bark. To me, it isn't anything to get excited about at all. I dial in a couple more clicks on the scope in the .06 and dead is dead.

The name "Weatherby" and "Magnum" offer more to those with egos than they do any real practical hunting difference If you need more than an .06, you need a LOT more and any of the various .300's aren't much of a step up. That should fan the flames a bit. Flinch

Remember a 300 Weatherby is a souped up 30-06. It will handle every bullet the 30-06 will only faster and flatter. It is like needing a bobcat to hunt with but you took a lynx instead.

I shoot a 200 grain 30 caliber accubond over 3300fps from the muzzle out of a 9lb fully loaded rifle with a 27.5" lilja barrel. It shoots itty-bitty groups and is any animals worst [bleep] nightmare. I watched a girl shoot an elk in expert fashion with this rifle recently and have it all on video. It ain't a 300 weatherby, or a weatherby. Yuck.

I know that girl......yes, she can shoot!

I like my 300 WBY alot, just recently switched to a 7mm WBY Accumark because my 300 has a brake. I can tell you this, of all the elk that I have shot with the 300 (8) and the 7mm (2) there was a big difference in how hard they went down, the 300 puts them down quick and hard! I agree that the Accumark is heavy, I just bought a Remington 700 Thumbhole stocked 300 WSM which shoots everything great that I'm going to start using a lot!

I just started learning that lesson. I am becoming a fan of the .45-70.

add me to this list....unless the .35 Whelen is an option!

The big 30s kick a little hard for my tender shoulder but they sure can kill elk with good shot placement.

I would go 300 RUM with out a doubt.

My 300 Wby ammo costs me $1.13 per shot with 200 gr Barnes TSX bullets, about same as any other caliber in factory loads with non-premium bullets, short of cheap .223. If you use cheaper bullets the cost goes down dramatically. People who buy factory ammo, don't reload and complain about the price don't bring up much sympathy with me. Reloading is so affordable that bringing up "$65 per box" as an argument against a round seems to make no sense.

A 10 pound 300 kicks to hard?????

300 weatherby is a great elk round, but I prefer the 338's, 338 rum,338 edge,338-378,340 weatherby

For me but then I am a wimp.

When I was younger big mean people made me shoot all manner of silly things like .585 Nyetis and .600 Nitros and .500 Maximums and all that big recoil left me mentally scared.

I can shoot the big 30's and 33's as well as most, but I've found that if I wanna stay on my game in a manner which I choose to that I do mo betta with a big 7.

Even a 10 lb big 30 or big 33 can grow old if one's shooting it enough and from odd positions. I've found that many shoot them 5 or 10 times off a bench, sometimes with a sissy bag and they say hmm...what's so bad about that...?

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone, just stating my experiences is all.

Plus, I've found that the sub big 30's don't really do anything for me that I can't do with a big 7 or so. I have no experience with the 264 but am sure it's in the same league. Same with the 270 Wby and 257 Wby (those I do have experience with).

Dober

I have a nice Vanguard deluxe in .300 Weatherby. I bought it used with a brake on it. I wouldnt like shooting it much from the bench because of the muzzle brake, but it kicks like a .243 and isnt really all that heavy.

The problem is, I hunt elk with my custom, light, 7.82 Patriot Lazzeroni.

Of course there is nothing wrong with the extra reach the magnum 7mm and 6.5mm offer over the big 30s.

Most of the time it is not needed but when the going gets tough every little bit helps.

I to got an elk this year a bee but it was not a 300. I love them all thou the bigger one was just right this year. With the sav as backup.

I've killed 38 elk, all with .308 win, and a .280 Rem. All just as dead as if they were shot with a .300 mag or larger. I enjoyed the shooting a bit more though. Oh, I'm 6' and weigh 210, and can shoot those bigger rifles. Just choose not too.

The Weatherby is not loony enough for my taste. I carried a 30-338lapua improved last week. With 230gr bergers at nearly 3200 fps with fireforming loads it is kinda between to 300 and 30-378 weatherby rounds. I will take the 300 lapua improved over the 300 weatherby because of the availibility of Lapua brass alone.

+1, 257 was Roy's favorite.

After spending many years with the 300wby and 30-378, I'm happily re-visiting the 264win and now a 7wby.

Then hornady and berger threw a wrench in my new thinking with the 230 grain VLD's..Now the 30-378 may not see retirement for a few more years!But at 12 pounds (and a brake), will see less action than the 7mm..My 300bee comes in at 8lbs (no brake),and is just too much for me in the recoil department..There was a time when I thought I enjoyed shooting it, not anymore.

Gotta luv this, great quote...grin

Dober

Since its hard for me to make time and the distance traveled to elk areas, I tend to think around .338 diameter is a good thing. I've a LOT of confidence in a 338 win mag for some reason.

I have a couple of 300 mags, and a 7x300 mag. I tend to migrate to teh 338 or the .54 MZ when I think elk, just in case I need to take an angled shot. Drop is something that can be dealt with easy enough.

Truth be told though, I simply wouldn't feel a bit bad with a 243 in my hands. Have to be a bit more picky, but right bullet selection and shot placement have always been big keys to things like death in an animal....

And another truth be told, I get bored with calibers easily, and with deer, generally am using a different caliber as often as I can. Just because I enjoy seeing what they all can do.

This year the 1864 civil war musket still has a charge sitting in it, but its still looking for the chance on a deer...

rost495

I would not hunt elk with a 243.! There is absoulty no margin for error, and requires a standing shot at fairly close range with perfect shot placement. Most hunters are not willing to do that.
I have dug several .243 caliber bullets out of elk. The 338 is a much more reasonable choice

My first 13 elk were killed with a 721 Remington 06. My .300B is a 721 Remington 300 HH bored out to .300 WB, both are pre 60's manufacture. My choice of rifles has nothing to do with my ego or vanity. Nor would I state so of others here. It has to do with performance, the 06 starts to lag at 400 yards. You may say not, but I have seen elk walk away with shoulder shots, and others hit slightly back at that distance and beyond. Some to be recovered miles away. The 06 is a fine caliber, and I still own one but for the extra 100 or 200 yards the big 30's bring more to the table. I have a 300 Win Mag that I have owned since the 70's which is my primary.

Depends on who is pulling the trigger.

You're kidding right? The 300 Weatherby is one of my favorite cartridges of all time but "massive downrange energy"?

Personally if I had my $20k bet on a chance at a trophy elk that I thought might require long range shooting I'd be packing either Weatherby's Accumark chambered to 338-378 or a custom variation there of. That said I certainly would feel well armed with the 300 Weatherby as well, after all I do own 6 of them

well I might be a bit more patient and a bit more accurate and picky than your average shooter/hunter. I"m well aware of limitations of ANY cartridge, probably save for my 50, but then again it even has range restrictions.

I doubt most elk on a 100 yard broadside ribcage shot could even think about retaining an 85 tsx, ore even at 200.

But my sole guide for elk is what works best on Nilgai down here and when the chips are down, and its balls to the wall, a 243 NOR a 300 of any flavor would be my choice. And at that point light bullets are not your friend.

300 WM is a good cartridge, if you can shoot it and a terrible one if you can't. These days I like my light 7mm RM for my hunting needs. Plenty flat shooting for my needs with out the recoil of the larger case. I hunted some with one years ago. I shoot a 338 Winchester Mag if I think I will need more gun. These days a 250-3000, a 243 or a 30-30 would be plenty cartridge for the CT white tails I been shooting.

I guess we an keep this rollin' as elk season is just four to five months away:)

I have a 300 Wea now in a 8.5 lb package ready to go. I have not had many difficulties with recoil through the years as I used 340 B at that same weight for over two decades and took about twelve Bulls with it. A little rearrangement of my battery and the 340 was replaced by a 300. The 340 is a virtual elk hammer. Of those twelve Bulls nome required a second shot, went beyond a few yards and at least half were taken between 300 and 500 yards.

The 340 was on a semi-custom Rem 700 Action which brings up the point you don't have to have Weatherby platforms for the Wea cartridges nor shoot the spendy factory ammo--two "disadvantages" some always bring up in regard to the B cartridges. I handload everything. And I have never had a Weatherby rifle though I have also had a 270 B.

I fully realize any cartridge in the 308-30/06 family is elk-capable, not to mention the 7 mms. In fact I have a lightweight 284 I would gladly use if so inspired that morning. The actual question in regards to any of them and their pro's and cons is, "is the shooter capable?"

I really like the magnums for elk but as important for me as the cartridge is the platform any of them are in.

Presently, the fall load planned for the 300 is a 168-gr TTSX or a 200-gr AB or Nos Part depending. A 375 proven load is a 260-gr AB over R15; the 284's load has evolved to the 150-gr ABLR over R17.

But from my bit of experience, I would pick a 300/340 class mag for elk with the 300 B being the one I settled on.

John Jobson, a pal of O'Connor's and a .270 worshiper, wrote the .300 Wea. and 180 grain Nosler Partitions made the perfect elk rifle...

Mine was a Vanguard in a Rimrock stock. I took a couple of elk with it using 180 Sciroccos--one with the original Scirocco and one with the later version. A few years ago, my brother was wanting a magnum rifle, so I gave it to him, mostly to have an excuse to try something else.

It is hard to argue against a stout 30 cal 180 at 3200+ for western elk hunting. I suppose my only dislikes would be the recoil/gunweight/noise factors, which are not conducive to my ability to shoot well or hunt hard. For those who are immune to those, and there seem to be many on the 'fire, go for it.

Maybe when you get up to 340 Wby, elk are impressed. Anything below that- including 338Win, 300RUM, 300Win- hasn't seemed to impress elk beyond how much a 30-06 or a 7mm do. I've seen a bull take a few in the ribs with a 338 and act like nothing happened, and I've seen a modest 30-06 load at modest range take one right off its feet with same placement, single shot. Elk are hard to impress, most of 'em anyway. I've not been around for anything bigger than what I named though.

I can appreciate those who pay homage to the 300 WSM in this thread.

In my thinking, this may be closer to ideal: light, compact package, plenty of thump. My bro has a SAUM that is a light, short, and ideal, season after season.

The 300 Weatherby works pretty good on elk.

my favorite Elk rifle is the 338-06 Ack

Wow, talk about resurrection of an old thread!
In the few years since this original post, two more bulls have been taken with my MkV .300 Weatherby. It now wears a McMillan Edge stock, reducing weight with scope and mounts to around 8 3/4 lbs. Favorite bullet remains the Barnes 165 gr. TSX. I may treat her to a new Leupold VX3 2.5-8x scope, since I took the old one off to use as a spare for an Africa hunt.
If I get a return trip to Africa for plains game, the WBY gets to go along again- in addition to being a superb elk cartridge, it also performs extremely well on everything in Africa except the really big stuff.

300 Weatherby and 200 grain bullets, it is the ideal elk combo.

that pretty much sums up my experience with the 340 wby,using a 250 grain bullet, but Ive also had good results with the 375 H&H 45/70,35 whelen 358 win and a few others... while the 340 is darn impressive its sure not the only effective route to putting elk on their nose

Have used the .340 on three elk.. To me it was no more effective in dropping elk than any of my .300's..

I use a muzzleloader, and depend on the 290gr Barnes T-EZ to get it done on elk out to 150yds.

Yes!!!! memtb

I killed my first dozen with a puny .270.

The last 1/2 dozen elk, in a half dozen years have all been with a .308 Win.

Various cartridges in between.

While I certainly enjoy my .300 winchesters for long range target shooting, I find myself carrying my little 20" Tikka for all my elk and mule deer hunting. May play with an -06 this year.

Never felt the need for lightweight heavy recoiling rifles for big game.

In regards to the .243 for elk. A BUNCH of elk get killed by locals with them every year. Wives and kids tend to carry them. Husbands don't tell them that the internet says it is not enough and elk keep tipping over..

Excellent elk round as well. Not going to answer that OP's rhetorical question as we all know there are many cartridges that are damn near perfect elk medicine. 338 win mag really comes to mind, since it was made for elk hunting... ..OOPS, that was a slip up.. .. But true..

But these are the same guys who say the 338 recoil is bad but shoot 300 win mags and 300 weatherby mags all day long. Me on the other hand think the 338 great round, recoil not bad but I cannot stand the recoil of a 300 win mag. I rather get kicked in the nuts before I shot a either version of the 300 mag

Ah, the age-old argument: Keith vs O'Connor. Speed vs momentum. Flat-shooting vs raking-shot penetration. I suspect many who shoot the 300 Wby feel it is the perfect balance of the two sides of the argument: it shoots as flat as a magnum 7 and has the energy of a magnum 338. If there were fewer guys pole-axing elk with wee little calibers, then I might consider a 300 Wby. Or a 338.

But an '06 makes big holes through elk really, really well. And I can manage the recoil and gun weight.

I'd rather have a Toyota Camry to run around town than a Chevy with a Duramax. Of course, when getting firewood in January, the Chevy IS necessary. The elk hunting I've done looks far more like a Camry situation than it looks like a Chevy situation. In fact, I've put a cow elk in a Camry before.

I hope my analogy makes sense. It is a rough arthritis day today, and my head is spinning from pain at the moment. The point I am making is that small and efficient is a great idea for most situations, whether we are talking about running errands or guns for hunting elk. If I can do it with a Camry, I'll leave the Chevy in the driveway.

OH, now you are taking all the fun out of it. Sometimes I need my "chevy" to get to my elk hunting spots....

Good call. I don't go hunting in the Camry anymore. Plus, last year, when no elk could be found for the 12th time, I stopped and cut firewood in a foot of snow. It was far more successful than the elk hunting.

Ha ha.. A few years in a row (when I first started elk hunting) I thought about throwing my rifle in the ditch and taking up golf. . Those were the years I actually packed a 300 wby around. All this rifle/cartridge talk is fun in the off season. The main thing is getting into the elk. When you do this, damn near any legal chambering will get the job done. As long as you put the bullet in the right place. I hear you about the wood cutting though.

It's a good thiing then in the end that the various "elk states" describe various legal cartridges or acceptable "power levels" for cartridges that can be used for elk hunting.

The "best" is at best a theoretical best.

As much as I like .308, .30-06 and .300WM cartridges, I don’t have much interest in the .300WBY. Or any WBY cartridge for that matter. If I can’t get it done with my .300WM, a 300WBY won’t give me any warm fuzzies.

That's a tag line there, George. A quotable quote indeed.

I'd point out that the bullet you use is doing ALL the work, and the bullet placement is critical to getting good results.
I have used a 340 wby on over a dozen elk, using a 250 grain hornady bullet, but a 300 wby on only two,(200 speer bullet, on one 190 grain hornady on the other.) so I can,t really make a valid judgement call on the difference with so little to compare between the two.
As you stated both calibers in both rifles worked, but Ill stick with my 340wby based simply on the consistently good results I've had, neither 30 cal bullet exited , most of the 338 cal did

I believe it was John Jobson, O"Connor's pal and .270 fan, said if there were a perfect elk round it would be the .300 Wea. with 180 grain Partitions..
The .33's are great, but for me the .300's more versital and far easier to shoot than any .338 I ever owned..

Technically, the 338 win mag was built for elk hunting. Hard to improve on that one..

Well boys lets just split it down the middle and say the 8 mag is the perfect Elk round!

Ok Boddington..

I can reliably kill elk out to 500 yds with a 270. If I'm undergunned, my freezer doesn't know the difference. Fire once, and if they're not DRT, it's a 75 yd blood trail. All but one of my elk killed with that rifle were with partitions, mostly 130 with a couple of 150's and my last with a Hornady 130 GMX

My #2 elk rifle is a 300 WSM, so I'm not exactly biased against the 30 cal stuff. But a 6.5 lb, scoped and loaded 270 is my go-to elk rifle. Shoot what you want, my freezer's full, too.

I like that idea. Do you prefer the 150 or 130gr. partition for elk? I have a great 150 gr. load worked up for my 270 and think it would work great on elk.. Thanks for your input..

I have thought similar to this for a long time. I hunt most with a 22' bbl .338WM as it is a compromise between long range capable & good for close deep-woods shots. It's usually loaded with Woodleighs or Partitions. I still have a .300 set up long range, and sold my big bullet lever gun.

I used the 7RM for a long time with very good success and bought a cheap used Vanguard 300B with 24" barrel as a back up. It shot so well after a Timney trigger was added it is the primary these days. The extra oomph is tough to resist since we hunt close to the private boundary.

The jury is still out on the rifle with only a small cow taken but it really rings steel at 6&700 yards off sticks. If 3-4 years of hunting don't prove it better I'll go back to the 7 or try something different. I am fond of the crappy plastic stock since scratches don't bother me at all now.

The answer to the OP's question boils down to how you define "better."

From the autopsies, it makes little difference in penetration, BSA1917. I worked up a good 130 load, and shot most with it. If you have a good 150 load, I would not change a darn thing. The partition penetrates very well, and has the side benefit of not destroying a lot of meat.

Thanks buddy. I figured as much. I might just have to drag the ol 270 out this year. I'll probably use it for deer too. Never been one for shooting a 270, but it grows on me more and more. My buddy has been using one since we were kids and it sure does work for him..

If only these critters could appreciate our efforts of their planned demise.

With so many cartridges out there today I'm not sure you can label the 300 Weatherby the "best". It's obviously very good and certainly as effective as many others,and maybe more effective than some.

It will drop elk like sash weights...if you hit them right. If you don't hit them right it will also wound them as well as anything else.

It's a great elk cartridge but it's not magic.

So true Bob that it's surprising it bears repeating so often; kind of like reminding each generation that the earth is not flat.

Lucy, you know the world aint round,
Drops off sharp at the edge of town.
Lucy, you know the world must be flat,
'Cause when people leave town they never come back.
Hal Ketchum

Generally I steer clear of Weatherby calibers because they are priced too high. I don't feel like paying extra for a name brand when the generic will do the job just as well.

I hunt elk with a 30-06 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions with Spitzer points, hand-loaded to perform like a .300 magnum (61 grains RL22 – 2,870 fps). BTW the trajectory is close enough to factory loads Federal Premium 30-06, 150 grain Sierra Game King BTSP, that I can switch loads without adjusting my scope.

I think the middle calibers, anything from as small as .270 to as big as .338 magnum, are best suited for hunting elk. I recommend a minimum of 150 grain premium controlled expansion bullets. A 30-30 will kill an elk but its’ range is limited to about 200 yards. It’s my opinion that anything bigger than a .338mag is more gun than necessary and I don’t enjoy the recoil of those big calibers. A well placed shot from just about any legal caliber will kill an elk but nothing will work right with bad bullet placement, so one needs to use a caliber with which they are comfortable and proficient and take the time to get it right the first time.

KC,
Good post. ^^^^

A weatherby chambered rifle need not be name brand. When I pieced mine together, I was after a 300 Winnie. I couldn't find components anywhere, but R-P headstamped brass and RCBS dies were surplus at every gun show, so that's the direction I went. I'm happy with the results.

Do you need a drop tube to get that much RL22 in a 30-06 case?

I've killed several elk with a 350 Rem Mag and 375 Ruger, they really don't recoil any worse than a 300 or 338 magnum. To each his own though. My dad has been hunting with the same 7x57 since the late 70's, smart man I suppose.

Got to remember that the buffaloe and almost the elk were annilated before any of these magnums were in exitance.

bigSwede:

No drop tube. After I weighed it I discovered that that much just about fills the casing to the top of the neck. Tap it and shake it a little so the powder will settle some then tamp it in with a wooden dowel. Not too hard.

KC

Interesting side note:

http://www.petersenshunting.com/featured/was-the-buffalo-nearly-hunted-to-near-extinction/

David

Thanks for the info.

Have we collectively figured out yet that the 300 Weatherby knocks the snot out of bull elk?

Bob, no doubts out this way,..but you're up way too early man! 😴 😒😳

I can find a carload of carcasses left over from a bunch of elk hunting, that will attest to that fact...

Shoot what you can handle and hit them where they live and you will be killing yourself getting a Bull out of the mountain. The 300 Wby is a great hunting round if you can handle the recoil, most newbe's can't and would be much better off packing a 30-06 or 308 for Elk.

As will a bazooka.

Much prefer a 300 rum or even a 300 winchester.

I see no advantage of the Weatherby over a Win Mag. You can get ammo about anywhere for the win mag if things go bad. Long seated reloads seem to perform pretty dang good. A Weatherby isn't worth the bother.

Exactly.. All this gack is fun, but what most guys really need to be doing is practicing with their elk rifle on a more consistent basis......

I kinda dig the 300 Wby my son was gifted this past year from my elk hunting partner..

My buddy killed six elk out of seven trips to Colorado with me and all with the 300 Win Mag and the Sierra 200 gr BT

Nope, can't be true. If you read the internet enough you will know that a Sierra Game King is not a suitable elk bullet. You need something bonded or a mono.

I'm glad I don't read the internet.

I'm glad I don't either.... I generally use 250gr gamekings in my 338...

Scotty, that is a damn good shooting 300 wby. Reminds me of how mine shot 180gr. ballistic tips and partitions. Why in the hell I ever got rid of it, I'll never know!!!! I don't know what your son ended up with, but mine was built on a really nice m1917 sporter. I sold it to a guy on the other side of the river about 40 miles from where your elk hunting partner lives...

35 whelen for me

The .300 Wby is a great round. As far as best, well, that is subjective. Everything living will die very quickly sans its heart. What destroys its heart is immaterial. That it is destroyed is.

Last September, I put a 900+ pound 7x7 bull on his butt with one 160 Partition fired from my 7MM Rem Mag. The fact is I can't think of a big game round that wouldn't have done the same thing provided a bullet from one destroyed its heart.

Were I accorded a rifle do-over, I'd go with a 22" barreled .280 Rem and never look back. But then again, I like short barreled, easy-to-carry guns.

Hunting success is determined by hunters' skills. A .303 British will kill just as dead as a .300 Wby if bullets from each stop oxygenated blood from flowing topside. Big game will die when oxygenated blood stops topside flow.

Therefore, it ain't the cartridge as much as personal preference and hunters' skills.

If I'm fortunate to go again this season, I'll be using my 22" barreled .270 Win. As long as I put a bullet in an elk's oxygenated blood pumping equipment, it will die. That is biological fact. And in hunting as is true in all that lives, biology is controlling.

BTW, the 7MM Rem Mag was designed as a long range elk cartridge. My guess is that the 7MM Rem Mag has killed more elk than any other magnum cartridge. But that;s just a guess.

There is magic in 7MM Rem Mag bullets. To get better sectional density, ergo better penetration, one has to move far right on the power continuum where cartridges that hurt to shoot are found.

I have a Belgian Browning in .338 Win Mag. I've never hunted with it. It's far too power for everything I hunt. But it is a beautiful gun. About 30 years ago I fired it 3 times & have never again fired it. Were I to be able to hunt polar bear, I might use it. But then again, Eskimos & Inuit us the '06 with great success on polar bear.

As far as I’m concerned, the premise of the question (“The 300 Wby Mag for elk- is there anything better?”) is wrong. “Better” is an individual assessment based on specific criteria. There is no universal “better” as the criteria will necessarily vary from individual to individual. Before addressing that matter, let me comment on the supposed advantages of the .300 WBY as stated by the OP.

Flat trajectory:
Most game is taken within 300 yards where many cartridges are capable of providing a “flat enough” trajectory. My .257 Roberts shoots way flatter than necessary for such ranges. The real advantage of “flat” shooting magnums comes in at ranges over 500-600 yards, ranges at which most people a) have no business attempting a shot due to lack of practice and b) have no idea what the actual trajectory is (and usually underestimate the drop in my experience). In 33 years of hunting elk, I’ve never taken a shot where a .308 Win would not have sufficed. “Flat” shooting cartridges are nice but rarely necessary.

Massive downrange energy:
Dead is dead. More energy won’t make an animal more dead. It can, however, result in excessive wastage of the meat. Once a certain level of energy transfer is reached, the law of diminishing returns kicks in with a vengeance. Once again the advantage is most important at ranges far beyond where most game is taken.

Sub-MOA accuracy:
Many cartridges are capable of sub-MOA accuracy. Many of those can provide more than adequate on-game performance with far less recoil and expense than a .300WBY.

High but manageable recoil:
Manageable for whom? Many people find .30-06 levels of recoil objectionable. The recoil of my .45-70 hunting loads makes any .300WBY load look tame by comparison but the older I get the more I appreciate cartridges that have relatively mild recoil.

Almost unlimited bullet selection:
While there are a log of bullets available for .308” bores, the same hunting bullets I would use in a .300 WBY are available for most common bore diameters, including North Fork SS, Barnes TTSX, Nosler AccuBond, and Swift A-Frame. If you prefer cup-and-core hunting bullets you would be hard pressed to find a common bore diameter for which such bullets are not readily available.

Widely universal availability of factory ammo:
That claim is a self-contradicting oxymoron. (And yes, I know “self-contradicting oxymoron” is repetitive.) “Widely” and “universal” are mutually exclusive terms. But never mind that – I suspect factory .30-06 ammo (and .300WM ammo for that matter) is available at far more places, and in more varieties for far less cost, than is .300WBY factory ammo.

Could I come up with a “better” choice for a trophy hunt for big bulls? Yes, and easily so, as I have quite a few rifles that would be more than adequate but don’t have a .300 WBY or any desire to purchase one. Moreover, they would undoubtedly do 99.9% of the jobs I could do with a .300 WBY with less recoil and less cost. But what is “better for me is not necessarily “better” for the next person.

I do like smash-mouth cartridges but I also like light rifles; therein lies a conundrum requiring some compromise.

Though I've taken relatively few elk (eleven or twelve), they've mostly been between four and five hundred yards.

It'll be a 300 B at 8.5 lbs all up for me this fall or a 6.25 lb 284 all up at back-up; or vice-versa. I like 'em both.

It's an older Japanese MK5 that was my elk hunting partner's fathers rifle. He passed it along to my son last year. Hoping he gets a chance to use it this Fall in Wyoming for elk.


I have had a 300 Wby in a Vanguard, didn't like it. I like what this MK5 does, so it is has kinda gotten me back on a 300 magnum kick recently. I think a 300 Win or Wby 70 Classic Sporter would be the one. I am dieing to put a rifle in a Legend stock and can't think of a better one than a 300 mag in a Classic.

Same thing, same results.

The .300 Wby Mag is a classic big game cartridge. But it won't kill any deader than other big game cartridges. Mr Heinz Neaf knows this to be factual as did the new world record Yukon bull moose, the largest of the three species of North American moose, that he killed with a .303 British.

Nothing living will remain in that condition sans its heart and/or lungs. Without oxygenated blood to any big game animal's brain, it will die. That is an unalterable biological fact.

What hunters want to use to kill their big game is up to them. But they'll lose me in a maze of convoluted logic when they try to tell me that their cartridge of preference is best. As evidenced by Mr. Neaf's new world record moose, a .303 British will kill big game just as dead as a big magnum provided a bullet from it stops oxygenated blood flow.

God only knows how many head of all North America big game, and big game on other continents (including elephants), have given up their ghosts to the .45/70 Gov't using black powder loads.

Apparently, some humans can function without it.

Why sansucki keeps coming back is beyond me. He has been repeatedly exposed as John Melvin Davis, the nutjob convicted felon (AKA Gunkid, google his federal penitentiary resulting exploits)....

Slow learner..

GUNKID. aka Sansucki

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1661678/posts

All the bottom feeders resurface about politicking time Mac.

Gunner, that 348 you got from me would make a hell of an elk rifle. I'll bet those 250gr. barnes will knock the chit out of one...

Damn right BSA, got her landing in beanie cap sized groups at 200 with the factory bolt peep, they're running " a kind to the old steel" 2350 fps.

I'm happy with the old 06.
If I step up to a magnum it's going to be 338

If someone is looking for a M70, pm me.

I've had three shoulder operations, I'm 56 and won't use a muzzle brake. For me a .300 Weatherby is not an option. If I could shoot one without the attending pain and not being able to lift my shoulder for two weeks then it might be an option. So in my situation it is not the perfect elk caliber. I'll take a plain jane .270 Winchester or 30-06.

When hunting anything in the mountains I would rather have a light weight rifle to a heavy ole Mark V with a 26" barrel.

Caliber/recoil range around 7RM, 300 WSM would be maximum for me.

Sizzling velocity used to be preferred before the scopes got better. Now you can twist a turret or use a ballistic style reticle and extreme velocity is no longer required for long range hits.

While obviously most associate this cartridge with the the same named rifles, it need not be. The 300 B can be made or found in other packages, some not as heavy as the Weatherby models.

My .300 Wby Mk. V. now weighs 8lb. 14 oz. all up, with McMillan Edge stock, Talley LW mounts, and Leupold VX3 2.5-8x scope. I carry it easily all day, with just enough weight to help tame the .300 recoil.
There's still no substitute for high velocity with a high BC bullet to minimize wind drift.

I had an edge break on me shooting a 300 wm with 200gr partitions. After that experience, I wouldn't feel confident putting one on my mkv 300 wby. Is it a weatherby pattern or other?

My son guided elk hunts for an outfit in Wyoming last year. I've always appreciated the art of asking questions as a teaching tool for younger ones.

I asked my son about rifles he'd seen in camp. His reply......One man had a 30-378 weatherby mag and this is what I want to get.

I asked my son if he new what the most successful hunter in camp was carrying. Sons reply.....6.5 sweede

Son.....I want you to think about that!

Shod

If the guy carrying a 30-30 happens to run across the elk and the others don't, it doesn't matter what the hell they are carrying. Same thing I guess, but that's not what the OP wanted to know. I guess, the "best" rifle/cartridge for elk hunting is the one that gets the job done...

BSA, I suppose I was working at answering the question in a non threatening or offensive way.

I'll attempt to answer the question in a more direct way.

The 270 and 30/06 have killed more elk than the 300 weatherby has dreamed of. If you gave 50 folks a 300 weatherby and 50 folks a 270/30/06 the 270-30/06 crowd would be more successful every time.

Magnums are comprised of hype, recoil, and muzzle blast that is far removed from any real world gain.

The reality is recoil and muzzle blast are the exact components that seem to contribute to poor shot placement according to bench rest and competition shooter also backed up and confirmed by a large number of hunters whom do more than read books and charts.

Shod

Absurd statement. I have never felt recoil when pulling the trigger on game and have seen this confirmed by my petite 4'11" wife, who do a malfunction on her 308, had to use my 375h&h with full power 270 gr tsx loads to shoot her quarry. She said she didn't feel the recoil. Have let me nephew practice lots with 223 and then gave him a "real" rifle (308 with 150 btips) to go hunting with. Made a perfect shot and didn't feel the recoil either.

I'll agree, it is an obsurd statement. However I didn't want to get into a pizzing match. Like I've said numerous times. Shooting 1 rifle vs. another is same same personally in a hunting situation. It all boils down to fundamentals. If you don't have them, you just don't have them regardless of which rifle or cartridge you are shooting. Now if you are scared of big rifles with more recoil, then I'll agree you have no business shooting a magnum. Leave the bigger guns to the grown-ups who can handle them.. . Not directed at Shodd or kman, just stating a simple fact..

All about fundamentals I bought my daughter a vanguard in 223 so she can shoot all day long practice practice and practice.. Time for hunting get her hunting rifle out and off we go.. I know guys who shoot 300 win mags no problem they shoot a 338 and they are whimpering in the corner lol..

... Fundamentals are generally best learned with rimfires and small centerfire cartridges...Good on you for trying to teach your daughter right from the beginning..

Yep I really need to get her a bull barrel 223. But we get to the range and I plop a bag off ammo next to her. tell her to check the barrel to see how hot it is she's a pretty good learner that's for sure I have two 223 but I never get to shoot mine my daughter shoots one, barrel gets warm she grabs the other and shoots it. So a nice bull barrel 223 with a good scope and have her shoot out to 200yds be sweet.

.300 Wby, 180 NPT, 150 yds.

I'm sure there are a number of rounds that would whack an elk as good as the .300 Wby.

How does one define "better"?

DF

I define that as one of the "better" bulls I've seen - very nice!

Now I can't be selling you all of my rifles....

DF. That is a damn nice bull!!!!!!

short answer to OP: "NO"..

Good grief, what a bull. Around here with all that green, that would be early September. There would be less hunting pressure, as rifle season wouldn't open for another month...

BSA, I agree with you. The fact is there are many hunters out there that shoot magnums very well. In fact most on this forum are far from (gun shy).

I suppose I really should be more careful in my choice of words as I really don't want to affend any of the fine hunters that frequent the forum. There are no doubt some very knowledgeable hunters here who have passed on much more information that I've learned from than I could ever teach them.

I'll be more specific yet less affending and attempt an answer that contains a bit more logic and reasoning other than I don't like magnums because I think they suck. Lol

I'll explain my typical preparation for an elk hunt especially when working up a load or preparing a new rifle that I'm just getting used to. I'll use the 270 Tikka T3 I acquired several years ago as an example.

Basically once my load work is done I'll go to the range 4-5 times a week and shoot right around 20 rounds each visit however I do bring other rifles and shoot around 50+ rounds of big game ammo.

I shoot at 100,200,300,400,500,600 yds. My goal is I want to be extremely well versed in how my rifle is shooting and exactly where to hold for each yardage. I also want to be very well versed in any changes I may run into under different weather conditions. The end result is thousands of rounds of familiarizing myself with my rifle and I feel like my rifle truely becomes almost like an extension of my body. For instance two years ago I shot a Muley buck at 530 yds making a clean heart shot. Did I feel confident. My confidence was through the roof. I'd already made that shot 100s of times at the range with nary a miss. I didn't even follow up by ejecting the spent casing. I simply watched and waited.

This is my main pitta and what I have noted over the years. When I show up at the range sporting a number of Magnums my round count goes way down. Not because I don't shoot them well but because.....well......300 rounds a week of Magnum recoil is going to do some bruising to 98% of us and then there's always that 2% that seem to be somewhat inhuman.

Shod

Is there a better Elk rifle than the .300 Wby?

Yes, in many cases there are "better" chamberings for many people.

For myself, I am one of those individuals who are very recoil tollerent. I shoot most bigger guns just as well as I do smaller rifles, but for many shooters this isn't true. For most, the recoil limit is somewhere near .30-06 level before shooting is negatively effected.

The .300 Wby is just past that limit and for those people a 7mm Magnum or .30-06 might be a better choice.

For those, like myself, who aren't as sensitive to recoil the .338 Magnum is a better choice as it hits a bit harder and (in my experience) kills quicker than the .300's.

What the various .300's have going for them is that they are a near perfect compromise chambering. It's recoil is stiff, but not as punishing as the bigger .338's. It shoots as flat as the smaller 7mm and .270 rifles. And it handles heavier bullets than the smaller chamberings as well....providing better killing power.

It is a near perfect "tweener" round that sits between "too small" and "too big" competitors for most people.

The .300 is good, however I prefer the fast .338's for Elk.

6.5 Grendel worth a TTSX 100-120gr bullet has taken a bull from this combo had taller cows-bulls from100yards to 450 yards. I'd use a 6.5 Grendel with no hesitation.

Exactly.

From what I've seen at the range and in the field, , most people have no business shooting past 200 yards and that is a stretch for many. You don't need to put up with .300WBY levels of recoil for shots that close in and in fact the recoil would only add to the accuracy problems many shooters have.

Here at the fire we are mostly a bunch of rifle loonies - completely atypical of the average hunter. I've hunted with guys who had their rifle bore sighted by the dealer on Day 1 and on Day 2 be in the field hunting with it, having never fired it at all. Numerous times I've asked people what load they were using only to discover they didn't have any clue. Many who spend more time with their rifles are still far from rifle loonies - they practice enough to be fairly good with them but simply have other priorities. They are quite happy and successful with their .30-06 or whatever and feel no need or desire for anything else.

Daughter #1 is no longer a kid but she is still rather petite and doesn't care much for recoil. For her first elk hunt we settled on a .308 Win with a 130g TTSX running 3045fps at the muzzle. Recoil is very moderate at about 15 ft-lbs. She is not prepared for ranges over 300-350 yards and within her range I expect that load to work just fine. Unfortunately she only had 2 days to hunt this year and didn't get a shot opportunity. We'll have to wait until at least next year to find out how that combo really performs.

While I've taken two elk with a .338WM with a 225g AccuBond @ 2742fps, the last at 487 yards, and while I really like that combo, at about 33 ft-lbs the recoil is more than most people are comfortable with. A .300 WBY factory 180g @ 3240fps claimed will probably exceed this by 1 pound or so in the same weight rifle (depends on powder charge, could be as much as +3 ft-lbs). My .300WM loads (180g @ 3033fps) run noticeably less at about 28 ft-lbs. and have proven capable of whacking elk just fine at 400 yards, my longest with it so far. Under perfect conditions I'd take shots out to 600 yards (the extent of my regular practice) with this combo and not worry about whether or not I had "enough gun". Tomorrow I'll be taking my .338WM/225g AB/2742fps, a .30-06/150g AB/2991fps and my .280 Rem/140g AB/2900fps to the range to decide which two will be going elk hunting. Frankly, I doubt it makes much difference in terms of final outcome. I do know I'd rather pull the trigger on the .30-06 or .280.


Recoil for 150-180g .30-06 loads typically run around 20-24 ft-lbs. My 7mm RM loads are about 22-25 ft-lbs depending on the specific load, not much different than .30-06 loads. Not to be picky but a .300WBY load that runs up to 10 ft-lbs more is considerably more than 'just past' those recoil levels.



For 20+ years my only bolt action big game rifle was a 7mm RM. I often wondered if a .300WM would have been a better choice and eventually I got one. As much as I like that .300WM, its advantages with the loads I use are vanishingly small when compared to the 7mm RM. At the ranges I've used it (400 yards max), it doesn't have a lot of advantage over a gentler .30-06, either.

Last night Daughter #1 got married to Son-in-Law #2. Like Son-in-Law #1, he is getting a .30-06 as a wedding present. For 90% of all hunters and hunting situations I think that is more gun than they will ever need.

Not knocking your choices, though, I think the .338WM will likely make the elk hunt this year - the main question in my mind is whether to take the .30-06 or .280 Rem.

What ever I take out on any given day is better than a 300 bee for me. Easy as that.

Give me a .270 and Partitions and I'll show you dead elk until you're sick of looking at dead elk.

It's always been the Indian, not the arrow.

Pretty hard to argue with this.

The 300 Weatherby is no doubt a great elk cartridge. But today the world is so full of great elk cartridges you can't keep up with them all.

Personally I'd rather have a 7mm Mashburn. It kicks less.

The puny 270 Win throwing a 140 gr TSX worked for me a couple of weeks ago.

The perfect elk rifle/cartridge is the one in your hands when hunting elk. This is not rocket science.

Whatever I have is right... but bigger animals mean wider bullets to me basically...

But I think it only really could matter in non perfect situations.

I'd hunt em with a 243, understanding the limitations and using a barnes and the right shot angle and distance without a doubt.

It would not be my trophy go to rifle... that one would very likely be 338 of some flavor if not slightly larger possibly.

Hit the range yesterday and narrowed down my choices for the elk hunt. semi-custom Ruger boat paddle /stainless .338 WM wiht 225g AB and Ruger Hawkeye All-Weather .280 Rem wiht 140g AB.

Don't know which will be the one I grab opening morning but don't think it makes much difference. Neither one is a .300WBY and I don't think that will make a difference, either.

Just make sure the cartridge goes with said rifle. I was reading somewhere where this dumb azz brought the wrong ammo for his rifle when he went elk hunting last year... Forgot who that was...

I heard that also. Discovered .45-70 ammo wouldn't chamber in the .257 Roberts worth a damn...

Interesting..... I have the cartridge name written on my ammo boxes i.e. .270 Winchester,.300 Wby,7x57 Mauser etc.... easy to get the right one.

And for those cartridges which I have more than one rifle,I have the rifle in which the ammo is for. For instance with my FN Mauser .270 Win,on the box lid it reads .270 Win FN. For my Winchester Super Grade it says .270 Win Super Grade.

It's not rocket science.

It isn't rocket science but it does require remembering to change the ammo when you change the rifle at the last second...

With the two examples I gave the FN load is a 150 gr Nosler Partition and the load for the Super Grade is a 130 gr Nosler Partition. If I forget what the load is,I open the box and look at the paper which has the info.

Either of those two loads will handle anything I want to hunt with a .270 Winchester.

For my third .270,it uses a 130 gr Swift A-Frame. On that box it says .270 Win CHG. CHG is Custom High Grade.

Back in my magnum phase, I decided to go with the 338 win mag after shooting and hunting different '300 mags'. I found with the noise and recoil associated with the 300 mags or the 338 I decided to run the 338. If you can shoot one of the 300 mags you can shoot a 338 win and have more bullet... that was then.

Now, my last elk I killed with my 280 rem stoked with 150 grain ballistic tips. While not a trophy, the small 3x4 bull made it a whole 20 yards and tipped over very dead with his vitals turned to soup complete penetration with about a 1-1/2 exit hole.

I did shoot a second time as the bull was stumbling out of the clearing and hit him in the last rib to angle forward threw the already destroyed vitals and broke the off side shoulder.... but I still would have shot a second time even if I had a 300 or a 338 in my hands... If there up, yer shoot'n

I have been hunting a long time and once thought a magnum was the answer, but along the way its always been shot placement not the 'displacement size' of the cartridge. It did not take me long to find out elk just do not lay down dead after being vitally hit even with a magnum, or with ANY caliber for that matter.

Shot placement, knowing limits and firearm familiarity trumps names, brands and all the money one can spend.

The 300 mags are fine elk guns. A mans just gotta know his limits..... Most of those fine points bighorn gave about the 300 Weatherby could just a arguably be said about the lowly 30-06

On the other hand, it helps to read the labels in the box, something I forgot to do when in a hurry last Friday morning in the dark...



Left to right, .338WM, .280 Rem fired in a .338WM, .280 Rem, .375 Win fired in a .45-70 ( a mistake I made years ago).



Ended up taking my 6x with my buddy's 7mm RM and a 160g Grand Slam.

160g Grand Slam recovered from 6x5 bull, 411 yards, quartering away:

Lets hear the story behind that first shot, Coyote Hunter!

How much better is a Weaterby than a Winchester in 300 mag?

What % faster in MV?

RR, I have both.. Both 700's with Lilja barrels.. The Win. has a 26" the Wea. a 27".. With the loads I checked, the Wea. is about 100 fps. faster than the Win.. I also have a .300 win. with a 28" barrel with my std. load, it shoots about 75 fps. than the Wea.. To me they are both great rounds.. They have excellent speed with lighter bullets and with 220's they have ample power for any game we have..

The one advantage that I see with the Win.. In a long action like the 700, I can seat the bullet out as far as I need to to achieve accuracy.. In the Wea. caliber, the magazine box limits that ability.. But so far the Wea. is a very accurate rifle..

John Jobson was a big fan of the .270, but somewhere in my files I have his article on elk rifles.. He said the .300 Wea. was about the perfect rifle for elk.. He was an experienced hunter, reloader and shooter, I always felt he knew what he was talking about..

They are very close in comparison,but it seems that the Winchester is much more common for brass, manufactured ammunition and guns available in that caliber that all these conveniences make up for the slight advantage in fps.

Just an easier animal to work with.

No doubt!! In equal barrel lengths, and given a long magazine like the 700, they are very close, but the Wea. does have a bit of an edge..

300 ultra for those born from the late 70's on..

In these days of near-continuous shortage, I'd probably go Win mag over WBY just for brass availability alone. Sad but true.

Bob, my 300 B is in a Blaser R8, 8.5 lbs scoped. I don't know what it is--it certainly kicks but doesn't seem excessive to me at all. Maybe it was all those years of lighting the 340's fire. 😳 😀

I had a couple Ultra's.. With a 28.5 in barrel they were something.. With a shorter barrel, I am not so sure..

If your not picky about brand I have never seen any shortage of 30 cal magnum brass. At least as it pertains to 300 wsm, 300 win mag, 300 Weatherby or 300 ultra.

A 24" tubed ultra will run 3300 pretty easy.

George recoil is SO subjective. But after a few sessions with a hunting weight 340, the 300 Weatherby can feel trifling.

I feel like the Mashburn offers the same down-level of recoil from a 300 Weatherby,that the 300 Weatherby does from a 340.....which makes sense because in each case we're burning less powder and shooting lighter bullets.

I do get to shoot 300 Weatherby now and then, side by side with the Mashburn. My buddy has a 300 Weatherby and I have owned several.

Bob -

Is that signature new or have I just not noticed it before?

In any case, my 7mm RM was my first centerfire in 1982 and my only bolt-action big game rifle for 20+ years. It go used for everything from light varminting to elk.

Now I have a safe full of rifles, lever, bolt and semi-auto and find myself asking the same question. The answer I keep coming up with is "They are fun and I can". Works for me, although I now find myself wanting suppressors for subsonic use with my Ruger .308 Scout and AR .300 Blackout rather than new rifles.

BTW, congrats on your new Remington .280 pump carbine - it looks like a beauty and I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.

I was very pleased with my 300Wby Vanguard topped with a Zeiss HD5 3-15x50 with the Z800 reticle this season fot elk and deer in Colorado. We practiced out to 800 yards getting ready and the rifle was automatic at 500 practicing from field positions.

I shot a large cow at 550 yards right behind the shoulder, she turned to face me and the next shot caught her right in the center of her chest, both exited just behind the off side shoulder and she cartwheeled down the steep slope several yards before lodging between tree branches - pretty spectacular results.

The only downside was damaged meat 6-8" away from the entry and exit holes including neck meat, flap meat and a piece of back strap. Not ideal but on a huge cow the lost meat isn't a big percentage. I shot a small buck on our last day hunting and took a 140 yard neck shot DRT and no lost meat.

I'm a huge fan of the 300 B for elk and since I picked up the Vanguard dirt cheap the set-up with the Zeiss and a Timney trigger is sub $1,200, hard to beat that bang for the buck on a longer range elk stopper.

CH: Thanks on the 280! Neat retro little rifle! Hope to hit the range today and shoot it.

I have/had other stuff, too...used lots of it on animals. I noticed about 20 years ago that I grabbed a 270 or 7 mag just about every time I hunted...except brown bear and for that brought 375's and 338's.

7 mags (most any of them) are easy to like. Fast, flat trajectory,accurate. Bullets of ample weight and everything from high BC, long range styles to lighter speed bomb monos. And (relatively) modest powder charges . They recoil but don't beat you up. Pronghorn to moose versatility,and about everything in between.

All this in moderate weight rifles.

What's not to like?

What is "flap" meat?

I have my own definition, but it's context is usually confined to threads that have "223AI" somewhere in the title.

I think the proper term is skirt steak, the meat along the ribs that around here we typically use for Carne Asada .

I grind most non steak or roast meat because I love elk burger by that cut marinated and grilled with beans and guacamole on a tortilla is just excellent.

My Dad left me his 300 Wby. It was a pre-64 300h&h that was sent to Weatherby to be chambered there.
I killed 5 deer and 1 elk with it, and it hit like the hammer of Thor.
But, when my best friends son wanted to get a "magnum", I gave him the gun. He will keep it in his family and use it and appreciate it.
My "problem" with it was simply that I didn't enjoy practicing with it, because of the sharp and strong recoil.
Because of that, I would shoot about 3 or 4 rounds at the range prior to deer season, then go hunting, get my dear, clean the gun and put it back in the safe until the next year.
So, I decided to get an 06', and shoot all year long and use it hunting instead. I think it was a good decision, because the extra practice has made me a better shot... funny how that works.

the nicest part about a 300 win mag is most gun stores have them in stock and that cartridge is very accurate.i have one in a Remington sniper rifle with a niteforce on it shoots 3/4 groups at 300 yards on a bench,but do not enjoy shooting my 300 win.mag it kicks nasty .i have built a new long range elk gun now 338 lapua with a recoil reducer on the barrel and that will be a better long rifle except ammo could be hard to find for some people. being a handloader for both not a problem.but if I went some place in the world on a plane for a hunt I would take the 300 win. mag just because ammo is easier to get all over the world.i own a 300 weatherby too and really see very little difference with a 300 win.mag except win mags ammo and brass is cheaper and to be honest the 300 win mag. is just a little more accurate, that's why the seals use them, seals use mostly federal ammo too,so sometimes that brass is around too,all three cartridges will kill elk and I like all three except the kick !

The 300 wtby bridges the gap between the 300 ultra mag and the 300 win mag. It doesn't have the redeeming qualities of either imo. I base this on owning all three.

A .300 Weatherby Mag is the best choice if a .300 Weatherby Mag is what you want.

For everybody else, not so much.

Well said!

I know many have a pet cartridge they love to hunt elk with , myself included but I did kill my biggest bull elk with a hoyt bow at 70 lb.s bull scored 374 b.c., all cartridges will kill a bull elk placed in the right place.just sayin

Back in the dark ages (1890's) the question would have been "The 7x57 Mauser for elk - is there anything better?"

Now, over 120 years later, for some people the answer is still "No".

The .300 Weatherby has a lot of positive attributes, but it has a lot of negatives, too. Among those negatives are:

1. Typical barrel length is 24". Not horrible but not compact, either.

2. Typical rifle weight. Again, not horrible but not lightweight, either.

3. Recoil with pull power loads is more than many people want to (or can) endure. Definitely more than necessary for the vast majority of hunters.

4. Factory ammo costs. This morning the cheap stuff at Midway is 1.78x more expensive than the cheap .300 Win Mag ammo and 2.56x more expensive than cheap 180g .30-06 hunting ammo. Comparing Remington Express 180g Core-Lokt ammo: .30-06 (2700fps), $22.99; .300 WM (2960fps), $30.99; .300WBY (3120fps), $69.99.

5. Ammo selection. At midway this morning there are 116 options for .30-06, 72 for .300 WM and 27 for .300 WBY.

6. Rifle options. Almost every bolt rifle manufacturer offers a .300 WM option. Don’t bother looking for a new .300 Weatherby from Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage, Sako, Tikka, Montana Rifle Company, Nosler, or Kimber. In other words, if you want a .300 Weatherby, be prepared to let your cartridge of choice dictate the rifle manufacturer and model.

This is not to knock the .300 Weatherby but rather just to point out some practical considerations. While I can’t say I‘ll never own one, I can say I don’t see any remotely compelling reason for me to do so. YMMV.

I still say there's something special about a 200gr Accubond whistling through the mountain air at 3100fps.

I was very impressed with my partners 300 Wby and 200 grain AB at 3050FPS this year. He shot a good 6x6 bull right around 200 yards in the rear of the ribcage and recovered it towards the front of the animal.. It didn't wander off at all and he hammered it with a 2nd that put him down for keeps.









Never would say a 100 other cartridges wouldn't have worked just as well, but it comforting to have that big Wby when the ranges are longer, if you can shoot it well.

The best caliber for elk is the one you can shoot accurately with the right bullet.

The .300 Weatherby is a decent elk round if you don't need much reach and love recoil.

But then if that fits the bill then the .340 Weatherby offers even less reach and kicks even more.

But then if that fits the bill then the .33-.378 Weatherby offers even less reach and will kick even more.

Need I go on??

Yes, go on.

How bouts a 338 RUM or a dinosaurus ultra rex magnum?


Merry Christmas, John and everyone else.

John what is your favorite round?

Maybe you could school us on a 243 at 700 yards. Now that is a good round...

The 6.5MM 140gr VLD scooting along at 3250fps.

The .264 Win Mag with a bit of a long throat has been the chamber.

If I do my part it kills them dead and if I screw the shot up I have to shoot again.

Easiest to shoot combo that will absolutely break bulls from very close to over 1000yds.

I have killed only one elk, and that was with a 300 Weatherby. So, if you ask me, it is the perfect elk rifle. Others who know much more than I do say the same. However, the best elk rifle for you is the one you like. If I go out west again, I will most likely take a 30-06 and a 270. I might even take my Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08 for still hunting in the black timber. Gunwriter John Haviland's son Thomas uses one just like mine on elk.

John Jobson, a famous .270 man, figured the .300 Wea. with 180 part. was perfect elk medicine.. He shot more game than most of us will see....

I bet it works good for what you do.

I need a rifle that works on angling 50 yard shots in the timber and reach out to 400 or so in an avalanche chute or near the head of a drainage. And be able to pack it up a mountainside. 300 Wby works very well.

Been hittin the eggnog pretty hard? Agree on the recoil, but you pulled the rest outta your ass.

I think that if someone thinks there is nothing better than a 300 mag to kill elk with,they haven't killed many elk.
I have killed elk with a .308, 50 cal muzzle loader, 30-30,44 mag carbine,7MM Rem Mag, 7MM Weatherby Mag,a whole bunch with 30-6, and probably a few more chamberings/calibers that my feeble mind has forgotten.

I sure haven't seen a whole lot of difference in the killing ability of any of them and doubt that a 300 mag of any flavor would either.

I've never had a problem killing elk,with whatever gun i was using.have used a 6/06 on quite a few.

Pretty sure I use more reach on elk than most and willing to bet I have punched tags further than any .300 bee lover.

Just Sayin.



Based on my experience the .243 Win with the 105gr VLD is better at 700yds than the .300 Weatherby.

Both are pushing the limit. Lots of better options if you need reach but I would take the .243 Win/ 105gr VLD over the .300 Bee every time.

Have you had a problem killin elk with the .243 Win?

338 win mag

Have you gone daft? The question wasnt weather you've reached out farther than every 300 wby user in the world (cute claim BTW),its about numbers.

What fantasy land are you living in, that a 215 berger at a conservative 3000 fps doesnt give you enough "reach"?

here in the real world,it seems the 6.5 140 @ 3250 is nearly identical at 1k,and actually lagging behind a tad by 1500.

I agree its performance can be matched or bettered with much less recoil/powder..Thats why I dont use it.

That makes it impractical for LR,not incapable.

Merry Christmas

I want some of whatever eggnog Burnsfeld is chugging.

Tanner

Not when I shot them in the head. You have to admit, you don't fit into the average hunting and shooting scenerios with the equipment you use and where you hunt.

Take your light calibers and go to Africa and see how many PH's will allow those guns on dangerous game and at 1000 yards. If there wasn't an advantage to larger calibers they would hunt elephants with a 17 Remington...

Many big game animals have fell to my 300 Wby. Never had any get away. All shots were deadly. Right bullet, good shot placement, dead animal.

If a guy can handle them, the super .30's are great elk medicine.. Years ago when I worked for a living, our hunting was limited to after work and weekends.. Time was short, we had to make every opportunity count if we wanted elk meat for the winter. My three friends shot 06's. If we were in timber, or got a good shot in the sage, the 06 worked fine.. But often we would get chances at 400 to 600 yards.. Since getting meat was important, we took a shot up to 600.. The .300 never failed to get our winter's meat.. It is under those conditions were the cartridge shines.. But you must pratice with it.. That is why my favorite .300 is on its 3rd barrel. If you can't do that, then an 06 is fine...

My favorite Montanan philosopher Teddy K. had it right when he warned against technological advances.

Sure I'll take a beating for this, but I would appreciate never having to hear-
"Oh yeah, what's its ballistic coefficient?"-again.

The last bull I killed with the 300 Weatherby was inside 20 yards. Jumped off a Colorado canyon edge after hearing him bugle. Somehow got between him and his cows and called him into that range.

Grew up reading Outdoor Life articles about putting the sneak on big bucks and bulls. Feel sorry for the up and coming hunter who will never know anything but yardages and bc's.

John, no argument here over your long range success but the 300 Wby with the right bullet--a good "slippery," 200-grainer is all that's needed--a good base/scope set-up, due diligence without retinal detachment, will go as far as I am going to shoot at them which is not as far as you will. I do like rifles that speak up though. 😄

Nothing against your choices at all.

I have a 1931 Remington version of the Browning take-down SA-22 that has been passed down from my Granddad. Grandma used to use it to head shoot the chickens.

.22 shorts only. Bet Granddad never knew he was ready for Africa.

Not that he would have cared. Shot his first deer when he was 84 and decided they were "too much work" after shooting his second at 87.

If you live in elk country and have horses you certainly don't need a 300 Weatherby for elk. When you pay several thousand dollars for guided hunts on private ranches most deer calibers will serve you well. If you shoot 10000 rounds a year and carry a 14 lb. 1000 yard Match rifle wearing an NSX you can pick a bunch of calibers that work just as well.

For public land hunters who might get one opportunity at 500 yards or get tag soup - the 300 Weatherby is as good as it gets. The down range power and flat trajectory kill elk with much better performance and stopping power than a 30-06 or 7 mag.

You almost can't be more cost effective than the 300 where an excellent, accuracy guaranteed rifle is available new for around $600 and used rifles for much less. Brass is widely available and Weatherby factory 180's can be had for less than $40.

Really cool 264 Win Mags are great but try finding reasonably priced rifles or buying off the shelf ammo almost anywhere. Super 338's are probably the ultimate long range elk killers but aren't practical for most shooters and most wallets. For my money the 300Weatherby is the best bang fot your elk killing buck.

There isn't an elk alive that i can't kill graveyard dead with my old 7mm Mag and I can do it with less recoil and less noise to boot. The same thing can be said of the 30-06 and the 270 Win as well.

Specneeds –

While I agree in large part with much of what you say, and while I agree the .300 WBY is great for elk, “as good as it gets” is a bit of a stretch. A lot of hunters can’t handle the recoil well, ammo costs are higher than many can afford, many hunters want a lighter rifle and many hunters want a rifle that is shorter than factory rifles in .300 WBY. For the one rifle hunter, a .300 WBY is rarely “as good as it gets”. Daughter #1 went with a .308 Win which suits her much better for all the reasons above. Both of my son-in-laws, both new to big game hunting and centerfire rifles, got .30-06 rifles as wedding presents for the same reasons.

Practice is important and brass-cased .30-06 180g hunting ammo can be had for under $13.50, a price which suits limited pocketbooks much better and allows 3x the practice for the same price as a box of $40 WBY ammo.

As to the down range power and killing elk with “flat trajectory kill elk with much better performance and stopping power than a 30-06 or 7 mag”, that has to be qualified. Those qualities are not needed at ranges where most elk are taken and are helpful at longer ranges only if the shooter can take advantage of them. Many cannot. This year, my hunting buddy missed a 6x5 bull elk at 400+ yards with his 7mm RM. A few seconds later I shot the same bull at 411 yards using his rifle. The bull went “4 steps and down” according to my hunting buddy, performance that is typical of what I’ve experienced when using both my 7mm RM and .30-06 rifles.

The point is that “as good as it gets” is a qualitative assessment that is meaningless without the parameters with which that judgement is made. Every shooter is different and has different capabilities and needs. For many a .300 WBY would not be “as good as it gets” but rather a horrible choice.

If you really want quantitative data, tell how many elk you have killed to base the judgement of whether the 300 WBY, or any other cartridge for that matter, is or isn't a good choice...

Have not killed as many elk as Shrapnel and some others, but have been on lots of elk hunts for an easterner(we aren't talking a double handful;way more than that),and been around the taking of a good many in addition to those I killed.Virtually all were mature full sized 5 and 6 point bulls.

I have also had lots of opportunities to dig through many elk carcasses post mortem and see what the bullets did.

Seen them killed with a good variety of cartridges from 25's to 340's and most everything in between. I have never been anywhere that the 300 Weatherby was not an excellent elk cartridge. Of course I have never seen one killed with anything beyond 550 yards or so. The ones I killed with the 300 Weatherby and Winchester magnums showed excellent performance.

Some of the fastest kills ( and I mean dumped where they stood out to 500 yards or so) have been with the 7 rem mag and Nosler Partitions. Anyone who thinks that isn't a top notch elk out fit is IMHO, smoking crack...

But then I have seen the same things with the 7 rem Mag, the 30/06,300 Win Mag, 8 Rem Mag, the 338, the 340 Weatherby etc etc.

IME the 300 magnums seem to make bigger holes in elk than smaller calibers; the heavy bullets break (smash, not just penetrate) heavy shoulder and leg bones with good bullets, and Nosler Partitions(180 or 200) penetrate a long ways in elk bodies, but not much further than 160-175 in 7mm near as I can tell.

But do they kill elk any faster? I don't know and bet you'd need 300-400 kills with each and a stop watch to tell the difference...but what do I know?

The 300's are no insurance for bad hits around the fringes of vital areas.I have gotten a bit sloppy a couple of times and hit slightly off center with a 300 magnum; they needed follow up and I did not lose them but it can happen. A friend lost a good BC bull with a high hit from a 300 RUM,and I have seen the same thing happen with a 7 Rem Mag on a bull shot by another hunter.

IME You have to be just as precise with a 300 Weatherby as anything else. I don't think added horsepower saves you with bad hits,but think very strongly that more penetration than you think you need is your friend...with anything.

I think any of the 300 mags are great for elk, provided you use the right bullet and can shoot it accurately.

As to the OP, any thing the 300 Wbycan do, the 300 RUM can do better (ballistically).

BH63

So the only disadvantages you see with the .300 WBY have to do with factors that have no relation in how it actually works on elk?

How a particular rifle or chambering performs on elk has more to do with bullet placement than speed.

The more you practice, the better your bullet placement. The 300 wby. has enough recoil that lots of people won't shoot one as much as say, a .308 in a similar rifle. In that respect, as well as cost per round, it's not as good as a .308.

The "fantasy land" where you actually have to hit the bull in the right spot. I like to call it the Real World.

If you think paper or computer ballistics are the end all be all of reach then you need to shoot more and surf less. Recoil matters when discussing reach.



I never said it was "incapable". The thread title asked "is there anything better?" To accurately paraphrase I said there were better choices and it appears you agree.



Only the good stuff, Tunner.




I don't get your point? I have shot plenty of bulls in close and would argue the .300 Bee is even less optimal inside 300yds.

Elk are not exactly bullet proof if you hit the right spot. Hit the wrong spot with the .300 Bee and you will need to shoot again.

Do you think there is a place on a bull where the .300 Weatherby works and 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag or even the .243 Win/105gr VLD bounces off?

Seriously??




I don't suspect you get the hypocrisy of thinking the .300 Weatherby some sort of low tech approach to elk rifles.

Want to hunt low tech with a firearm then grab an iron sighted revolver, load bullets you cast yourself into .45 Long Colt cases and put the sneak on a bull in open country.





George,

Obviously the thread title is provocative and intended to spark spirited debate. Just doing my part to keep it lively.



Good point Bob.

My first impression is, "geez whiz," how many times has this stuff been gone over.. But then I remember how I drank it up as a entry level elk Hunter, and I realize there are new hunters reading this stuff all the time.

I think BobNH and I have followed much the same path as far as working up the "cartridge latter" from the standards to the big 7's, 30's, and 33's, and then the 375 and have some of the same experience, particularly on elk.

There is no standard cartridge or "small magnum" that performs like a large 30 or 33 on elk over larger numbers of elk taken, over a period of time, at "normal mountain ranges," if,..IF, you can shoot it accurately. If you can't after trying just don't go there. It's not for you and you will be worse off pursuing it. Other, smaller cartridges will work too.

As to the small caliber, "pencil bullet" niche, and taking elk at 800 yards, I'm not talking about that either. At five hundred yards, covering 99 % or more of all elk taken, a big 30 (or 33) will be decidedly more impressionable than anything else that is hand held, again, IF...if you can carry it and shoot it accurately.

Ninety-eight % of all hunters shouldn't contemplate shooting any further anyway if even that far.

So, as to the 300 Wby (including other big 30"s or 33"s) and its use on elk, it IS "about as good as it get," regardless if someone can handle it or not. That has no bearing on the cartridge itself and its inherent ability when it is applied accurately.

There simply is no contest when looking at a bull at 400 yds across a small drainage with a ten mph cross wind, and holding a 300 Wby with, say, a 200-gr AB, as opposed to a 30/06 or a 7 mm Rem mag or 270. Note! I didn't say it couldn't be done with the latter three or what have you, but give me the former every single time.

Yes, again, the caveat is, you had better have put in a couple hundred rounds down range at home and know your rifle and cartridge intimately beforehand and then be able to place your bullet,.. or just forget it.

John B, don't disagree with your opinion of the 300. Just don't think you have to take everything to long-range to make the point.

Prefer the 7mm Wby to your 264. Only because it was first.

When evaluating the suitability of a cartridge for a particular task you cannot separate it from the available launch platforms or the cost, availability and variety of ammunition. When you ask “Is there anything better?”, As the OP did, you must also consider “better for whom?” To answer the question you must also consider the capabilities of the person for whom the question is being answered.

My hunting buddy announced that this year was the last he would be hunting elk. He is diabetic and simply can’t do it anymore. As a result of his diabetes he has already had surgery on one shoulder and needs it in the other. His range of motion is severely limited for both arms and he tires easily. He shoots a 7mm Rm but doesn’t shoot more than 2-3 times a year because a) his shoulders won’t take the wear and tear and b), ammo costs are a major concern. He had to save up for two years so he could afford to go on this year’s elk hunt. Even if he was to continue to hunt elk a .300 WBY, while a fine elk cartridge in its own right, would be a horrible choice for him.

Daughter #1 is fairly petite and is recoil sensitive. Although she is a pretty good shot, she has a strong preference for short rifles with moderate recoil. Like my hunting buddy, she shoots 2-3 times in a good year with 1-2 more common and ammo costs is a significant concern. Moreover her practice at ranges over 200 yards is very limited. A long, rifle with stiff recoil and expensive ammo would not be a good choice and certainly not “as good as it gets”. Together we decided that a .308 shooting a 130g TTSX @ 3045fps or a 150g BT @ 2745fps, both with less than 16 foot-pounds recoil, would be the best options for her elk hunt this year. Both loads would be more than adequate for elk at ranges where she would/should be shooting.

Son-in-law #1 is a big strong guy that tolerates recoil fairly well and shoots a .30-06 and a custom .300Win Mag that has been handed down from his grandfather. The first thing my daughter asked when she found out I was giving him a rifle as a wedding present was “Will he be able to afford to shoot it?” The answer, of course, was “yes” as I was giving him the aforementioned .30-06. Like my buddy and Daughter #1, he generally shoots 1-2 times a year. His longest shot to date has been on an elk at 382 yards and his .300WM had it on the ground before he recovered from the recoil. A .300 WBY could not have done any better, it just would have doubled his ammo costs.

For myself, I’ve used a 7mm RM, .30-06, .300WM and .338WM to take elk, the longest being at 487 yards with my .338. I handle the recoil fairly well but the older I get the more I appreciate light and light recoiling rifles. I handload so ammo costs are not a major concern but, being a practical person, I prefer the less expensive .300WM brass to .300WBY brass. For my purposes, would a .300WBY be a “better” choice than what I already use? No, it would just be a different and more expensive choice.

So your answer to my question is yes?

Didn't you state that you only shoot if you can see ribs?

I can think of a few shots I'd take with a 300 WBY that I would not with a .243/105 VLD and they all involve angles where ribs couldn't be hit.

I'd much rather have a 300 RUM and by a wide margin. I base this on actually owning, shooting and hunting with most of the 30 cal magnums from the 300 SAUM on up to the 300 RUM.
I'd rather a 300 win mag than a 300 Bee too.

My answer to your question is a definite "NO."

That said, I think the .300 WBY is a great choice for elk - for some people, not all and probably less than most.

Have to agree with you regarding WBY or RUM. If I was going to choose between the two I'd go for the RUM in a heartbeat.

Why? Because it can be downloaded to .30-06, .300WM or .300WBY performance levels or loaded up to normal RUM levels, which none of the others can match. Moreover it can match or even exceed the performance of those cartridges at significantly reduced pressures for longer barrel life.

Come on guys - your a spoiling the chance for the guy to sell his 300WBY at a great price....

Often when I see a thread where people are hooting up how good a chambering is, 2 or sometimes 3 people end up selling one soon after.

I have a Vanguard sub-MOA I'll part with, send me a PM.....

Mine is not for sale.

Nor is mine.. With a couple varmint rifles, it would be all I every need...

I picked mine up, an older Vanguard, from a guy who didn't like the recoil or the trigger for $260. A 5 minute install of a Timney and a bunch of IMR4350 behind a 180 grain TTSX really surprised me with the accuracy. The first shot at 100 yards was near the center of the target, the 2nd shot seemed to have missed the paper completely the 3rd was next to the first. When I picked it up the slightly larger first hole gave me a group you could cover with a quarter. That has been repeated several times since to put my trusty 7 mag on the bench for elk season..

Like most guys here I tell first time elk hunters the 30-06 with a good bullet is great elk medicine, the 168 TTSX is my first choice these days, For an inexperienced woman or smaller framed youngsters the 7-08 might be a good choice. But for the folks without medical conditions that aren't recoil sissies the 300's in general and the Weatherby in particular are really great for killing and anchoring elk, and they really shine for that cross canyon 450 yard shot.

If you want to spend the money on a RUM rifle, why stop there - go all the way to the 30-378 or get the Lazzeroni to optimize the caliber. A 300 Win mag might be cheaper to shoot but recoil is certainly similar depending on the stock and rifle weight. Personally for me the added performance of the Weatherby is nice to have and not much more money to shoot if you reload.

First, congrats on a heck of a deal on the WBY.

As to Remington RUM vs Weatherby .30-378 or Lazzeroni Warbird, .300 RUM rifles can be had for as little as $600. That seems to be $800-$1,000 or more below .30-378 prices and even further below Lazzeroni prices. That is more than enough reason for me to choose the RUM. Or to stick with the Ruger MKII .300WM that cost me $395 new.

Where a 3560fps 180g Warbird load comes in at nearly 49 foot-pounds recoil in an all-up 8.3 pound rifle, my .300 Win Magnum runs 180g @ 3033fps for just over 29 foot-pounds recoil. My .300 WM does what I want at the ranges I’m willing to shoot, with 13-20 fewer foot-pounds recoil than the RUM or Warbird. Recoil and 25-30g less powder per shot are additional reasons for me to stick with my Win Mag.

The difference between a RUM and a Lazzeroni is about 200fps with a 180g bullet (3359gps for the RUM per Nosler, 3560fps for a 180g per Lazzeroni). In practical terms, using 6” diameter PBR zeros, that results in zero ranges of 289 yards vs 304 yards and 600 yard ballistics of 2502fps/2502fpe and -36.9” drop/15.1” drift for the RUM compared to 2666fps/2840fpe and -31.7” drop and 14.0” drift for the Lazzeroni. And the Lazzeroni adds about 17% or 7 foot-pounds more recoil in an 8.3 pound rifle. Given the general availability of rifles, brass, factory ammo and reloading data, the RUM gets my nod. For bragging rights, which don’t interest me, the Lazzeroni would be the obvious choice.

I’m sure you will enjoy your WBY. If I found one at that price it would probably follow me home, although I certainly have no need for one.

Wow 49 recoil... Isn't a 06 ~ 24lbs or so.

Yup, with a maxed out 180g.

My "Rhino Blaster" loads for my .45-70 (460g @ 1812fps) run 48 foot-pounds recoil. They are most definitely NOT fun to shoot. Based on that a maxed out Lazzeroni Warbird wouldn't get much time at the range if I was the shooter.

I'd much rather shoot something I can get a lot of practice with.

The 300 Wby may be great elk medicine to some. Certainly no questioning its effectiveness. However, more is not always more. It is not going to make any elk any more dead than countless other cartridges, while someone may shoot it fine, I don't see many shooting the big recoiling 300s better, and the package it typically comes in is certainly not a good elk rifle in my opinion. If I hunted from a truck or 4-wheeler, and ranges were going to be really long I'd consider it. Otherwise, a 308 win, 30-06 or many others in a lighter, easier carrying, easy shooting package would be my preference.

What an emotional book this has become. Better, worse blah blah blah...

What is forgotten is that the 300 WBY is about 70 years old and took an already great cartridge and improved it. The 300 H&H has been around 100 years and is accepted as a "Hall of Fame" cartridge.

The 300 WBY is a blown out version of the H&H and has performed wonderfully all those years since. The beloved 300 Winchester came out years later. Then decades later we see overbores of 300 UM and 30-378 trying to be king of the 300's.

Don't forget what the 300 WBY did all those years ago, then someone got a great idea of making a less performing 300 with the Winchester. Yippee!

Now you have all the other guys trying to better the 300 WBY with extra unneeded muscle and you end up with a recipe for machismo and still someone thinks a 243 is all you need.

What a case for proving nothing. Anything more than a 300 WBY is too much of not enough and anything less is not enough of too much...

Well, said Shrapnel!!

300 Wby, 300 Win Mag, 300 RUM, Elk just won't know the difference.

The trajectory of a .270 Win/130gr with the power of a .338.

Just about the perfect combination for men who can figure out how to operate a reloading press.

Most people are more interested in having a rifle/cartridge combination that meets their needs rather than having the “king of the .300’s”. Rifles that they judge to be unnecessarily expensive, have unnecessarily high recoil levels and that are often longer and/or heavier than desired and/or need brakes to help tame recoil to acceptable levels are of little interest. That doesn’t make the cartridges “too much” -- except for those people for whom it does.

The .300 WBY is undoubtedly a great cartridge but the .300 Winchester filled a specific need – for a shorter SAAMI registered cartridge of similar performance (if not quite equal) that would fit in an unmodified action designed for .30-06 cartridge length. Winchester hit a price/performance point that was unachievable with the then proprietary .300 WBY. Based on public acceptance and subsequent sales, which far exceeded that of the .300 WBY, I’d say Winchester hit a home run with the bases loaded.

People can argue the merits of one cartridge over another but none of the arguments hold water when the needs and wants of the user are ignored.

The 300 Weatherby is no doubt a good and old round. However, I'd rather not deal with Free bore, weatherby rifles, weatherby ammo/brass. HENCE I prefer the 300 win mag and especially the beltless 300 RUM over it.

No problems here with the 300 Win but the "Weatherby rifles, free bore, Wby ammo, and dreaded 'belt'" comment is all red herring as to the capability of the 300 Wby itself which is what the thread is about. But I understand--often times cartridges and rifles are inextricably married. But here is where no-fault divorce truly comes in.

You really don't gave to deal with any of those (other than the belt) to have the 300 Wby; the Wby brass, yes, but a hundred pieces will get you a long ways down the road as long as you can work a press. And you could get Rem 300 Wby brass at one time; not sure about that presently.

There were and still are other makers who chambered for this big 300 and at this "build-of-the-month" site, there really is not much trouble to cobbling one up even on the cheap.

After some forty years of shooting both standards and magnums based off the old H&H, for the life of me, I have never figured out how the magnum's "belt" was some sort of gremlin.

Sorry, I just had to chuckle at this. It tugged at my heartstrings.

George -

There are few manufacturers of rifles in .300 Weatherby these days. Winchester, Savage, Remington and Ruger used to but no longer list them. Sauer ($$$$$$) still does. Not sure who else but unless you want a used one or a custom you will probably end up with a Weatherby.

Freebore has never bothered me much. I've often joked that in my .257 Roberts Ruger M77 the bullets couldn't touch the lands with a stick. Some of my other Rugers are the same, yet they are all very accurate with my handloads.

Weatherby ammo? Unless you reload, you are going to pay a significant premium for ammo, regardless of the manufacturer.

Like you, I never figured out what the problem is with the belt other than it isn't needed on modern (non-H&H) cartridges.

Midway offers .300 Weatherby brass from Norma, Nosler, Hornady, Weatherby and Remington. Remington is the least expensive at $92.99 per 100, only about $0.20 more per piece than Winchester .300 Win Mag brass. Not a big concern.

You are correct that the .300 WBY can be judged on performance alone, but that doesn't help the guy that has to buy the ammo, carry the rifle or deal with the recoil. If such factors weren't a concern we could all be shooting 29" barreled $11,000 CheyTac M300 rifles chambered in .408 CheyTac with $4,200 Nightforce scopes and ammo that costs over $6 per round. But hey, such a rig would be effective out to 2,500 yards in the right hands...

You work for Winchester? Sounds like the hype they tried to sell us on with the 325 WSM....

Judged by performance only it comes up short to the 300 ultra.

Argument noted. 😃 Blaser chambers for it too. And, you can still take a standard 700 action, add a bigger box if you want, and rebarrel to 26" for the "B" for not too much. That's not too difficult or much for the avid elk hunter. For the one weekend a year, casual hunter, yes, probably not a good idea.

But, all of the "don't do" arguments doesn't detract from the cartridge's capability to deliver a "ton" of energy to 500-600 yards with a very slippery bullet. I know this not from so much experience with the 300 itself but with its bigger brother, the 340, with "less slippery" bullets.

Anyway, on this fall's elk hunt, again, my only chance was at a partially exposed, branch antlered bull at 500+ yards in a cross wind at dusk. I considered only momentarily BECAUSE I had a 300 Why in hand.

No shot taken; no bull for me. My partner, on the other hand took a grand 6x6 at 216 yds with a....270. Died in his tracks...like they always do.😄 That typifies elk hunting--you just don't know so prepare for the least ideal shot and that's where the bigger 300's and 33's come into their own if you can get along with them. And Why's 300 is still one of the very best.

Sako chambers for it too and it really is an elk killing machine, at least better than a 243...

That group really sucks. Every shot missed the bull by over an inch and a half!

On a serious note, that target is proof positive that some people can shoot magnums very, very well.

Unless there are powder burns on it...

I'm not much for shooting groups, but I did try some powders and still came back to IMR-7228 and Nosler 180 grain BT bullets. These loads chrongraphed just over 3200 fps. When a gun shoots like this and has the ballistics that the 300 WBY brings to the table, I do feel strongly about how good an elk killer it is.

This group is just bringing the crosshairs over to where I want on paper, the rest of the proof is in pictures and my freezer...

I suppose you have killed more elk than Shrapnel!!!!

Maybe nothing better, but dozens that work as well.

The best elk rifle is whatever the best elk hunter has in his hands. The rest is bullchit... or elkshit.

Everyone in the east seems to think the 300 Weatherby is the best Elk cartridge. Normally when somebody I know books an Elk hunt their next move is to purchase one. I even heard of a guy who booked an Elk hunt in Colorado and proceeded to sell his .300 Winchester mag in order to buy a .300 Weatherby mag!

There of course is really little difference between the two..
I don't use mine alot, because it isn't my favorite rifle.. It is a good one just on a favorite..

You do seem pretty emotional about the .300 Weatherby. About the first clue someone has their feels hurt is when reading comprehension goes right out the window.

I wrote this:


You felt this:


When "Lots of better options" feels the same as "all you need" it gets hard to have a fun discussion without somebody getting butthurt.



Kroo88,

But that really is the point. Almost everyone who claims there isn't "anything better" than the .300 Weatherby is using longer range as the justification.

The interesting thing is that the self imposed range limits for most of the .300 Weatherby fans are shooter limitations, not killing power limitations. That is a bit of food for thought.

If a guy with a .300 Weatherby says he can only shoot well enough to reliably hit elk vitals at 500yds what happens if we give him a rifle with more downrange "power" and more recoil? Could he shoot ethically further or should he actually reduce the range he is willing to shoot?

All things being equal would he be able to extend his ethical range by using a cartridge that delivers less, but still plenty, downrange power but also was significantly easier to shoot from field positions?



Brad,

Sort of and maybe.

We put 10 elk on the ground (all with the rifle in the pic) the weekend before Christmas. 8 out of 10 were 1 shot kills (600yds- 180yds), one cow kept her feet long enough to get a 2nd and one took 3 because of behind the diaphragm placement on the first.

I don't know if a suppressed G2 .308 Win is "better" than anything for thinning cow herds but it sure is the best I have ever seen, in that application.

You weren't hunting, you were shooting.

Best and Happy New Year!

Brad

The 300B is enough gun for elk. If you like it, run it.

I don't care for the recoil and blast personally.

Oops I forgot the only way to hunt elk is by hauling a 12lb rifle on horseback and shooting broadside animals with match bullets. My bad.

I will be glad when this long range "hunting"/ sniper boy fantasy stuff runs it's course.

Well that sucks.

My rifles only weigh 10lbs.



I only have mules to ride.



Sometimes I don't wait for a broadside shot.



Not to mention I shoot elk with "Hunting" bullets.



In the future I will try harder to comply with your rules.

I'm not trying to make you comply with any rules.

But there are other methods of hunting elk where your guns don't work so well. That's all.

This long range stuff has been going on for far more than 50 years.. I doubt it goes away, with improvements in scopes, range finders, etc... I would guess it will only continue to grow..

Long range 10 years ago was 4-500 yards with a hunting rifle. Not 800 with a 10+ lb sniper wanna be rig. It's about as ridiculous as the tactic oil guys that show up to the range looking like delta force albeit 8lbs too heavy.

Some great bulls there!

Gosh darn john.Some day I'm going to convince you to trim up those mules so they don't look like gang of hippies,

B, When I was young some of the guys were already killing deer and chucks at well over 1000 yards.. BUT there were not many doing this due to the expense of getting equipment.. Most used army range finders. They had bull guns equipped with target scopes. That was well over 50 years ago..

There have been 1,000 yard hunting clubs in PA longer than I've been alive. They were using the .30-378 before Weatherby ever offered it and they used the .300 Weatherby mag prior to that. I just learned on another thread they also pioneered the 6.5/300 Weatherby mag. This long range stuff is nothing new.

John B -

Those are some pretty awesome bulls.

I dare say, though, that if you didn't have four-footed transportation you might quickly decide that a 10 pound rifle is unnecessarily heavy.

A gentleman's hunt on horse or mules is on my bucket list but for the last 30+ years I've carried my pack and rifle on my back, often doing 6-8 miles a day in and back. For me, lighter rifles are much preferred.

Yes,I remember growing up in PA in the 50's hunting in Clinton County of guys doing LR shooting. The ones I knew sported a .308 Norma Mag. We hunted out of Renovo. As I remember there were matches in a town east of there.

John boy,

What you don't realize is that there are a few people here that do hunt elk and do have great success. Shooting specialized guns under controlled circumstances doesn't put you in the rank and file category and certainly doesn't make a better hunter. You still don't recognize the value of having something larger than a 243 or 6.5 regardless of the shot placement, there is still an advantage and that was the reason for the original post...

Hey leave the 325 wsm alone ....

I can think of a number of scenarios where a 300 roy of normal sporting weight and shooting bullets of good construction would be a waaay better choice than an 11 lb 264 with a longish barrel.....one being you hunt an area with lots of grizz

far as that goes , put the 300 in a heavyweight gun with a fat tacticool stock and 30 inch barrel , its not gonna kick all bad either....

What is wrong with the 325WSM? With 200g AB it is pretty much the ballistic twin of a .30-06 shooting 180g AB if both are launched at the same MV with 6" MPBR zeros. At 2800fps:

.30-06/180g AB = 240 yd zero, 282yd MPBR; 500yds = -38.8", 1999fps, 1596fpe
.325WSM/200g AB = 328 yd zero, 279 yd MPBR; 500yds = -40.5", 1907fps, 1614fpe

A lot of same-same there

Just for fun I calculated the numbers for my less-than-max 22", 2742fps .338WM 225g AB load:

.338WM/225g AB = 237 yd zero, 279 yd MPBR; 500yds = -39.6", 2007fps, 21012fps

And I ran a .30-06 with a 165g AB at 2900fps, too:
.30-06/165g AB = 247 yd zero, 290yd MPBR; 500yds = -35.7", 2031fps, 1511fpe

And finally, a .30-06 with a 150g AB at 3000fps:
.30-06/150g AB = 252yd zero, 197yd MPBR; 500yds = -33.7", 2039fps, 1385fpe

I didn't include 10mph drift figures but there isn't much different there, either. At 500 yards:
.338WM/225g AB = 16.3"
.30-06/180g AB = 17.5"
.30-06/165g AB = 17.9"
.30-06/150g AB = 18.9"
.325WSM/200g AB = 19.9"

I would happily use any of those loads at 500 yards (and do use the .338WM/225g and .30-06 with 150g and 165g loads).

For all you new elk hunters, yes, it really is that complicated!

Williamsport has a 1,000 yard range. They've had matches there for decades.

Or just get a .30-06 and a 180g load you shoot well and go for it!

bellydeep,

Well we are all victims of our experience. Having shot elk from up close in black timber to pretty far in the wide open I really don't know what mean by "methods of hunting elk" and why my gun would not work well?

Care to expound?



Well I would like a .300 Weatherby even less in a light weight rifle.

The idea that owning all the mules, tack, trailers & trucks plus training, care and feeding that it takes to hunt deep in the wilderness is a "gentleman's hunt" put a smile on my face.

If you ever get the chance to go on your "bucket list" hunt make sure you get all the fun. Don't let the wrangler or guide saddle, feed, picket, or load your mount or the 2 pack animals it takes as minimum to do a wilderness "gentleman's hunt".



Well I am somewhat surprised at the lack of real elk hunting examples where the virtues of the .300 Weatherby made a real definable difference in the outcome.





While I would agree my rifles are pretty special I wonder what you mean by "controlled circumstances"?

Every bull I have posted in this thread was killed on public ground. To try and diminish my hunting as if I was killing bulls in a pen is a schitty way to try and bolster a losing argument and here's your GFY for the effort.

Why don't you post your last 4 (.300 Weatherby) bulls taken in uncontrolled circumstances, preferably public ground and wilderness.



Grizz? Never heard of her. Sounds scary.

This sign-



is about 1/2 mile from here.



"fat tacticool stock and 30 inch barrel" makes me laugh. Hyperbole much??



They are pretty unkempt.

John,

You get twitterpated too easily. The thread was about 300 WBY not you. You have made it about you, no one brought you or your equipment up but you.

There is a pattern here, you keep on with your spray tan and dental smile while spouting the virtues of your gun's superiority over the 300 WBY.

You still haven't recognized the fact that large bullets have more energy than smaller bullets, or why don't they allow you to hunt DG with 243 and 6.5 guns...

So to shoot elk I need a spray tan, dental smile and a 243??? Got it

Spray Tan isn't here to talk about the 300 Weatherby. He's here to show us he can fold himself in half and suck his own COCK.



Happy New Year,
Dave

Dave, you have such a way with works... No hidden meanings there..

Alright. This is my last reply to you on this topic. Either you understand what I'm saying and just troll for the sheer pleasure of it or you're so full of yourself you'll never understand.

I've got a custom barreled 700 in an aftermarket stock. With a Leupold 6x36 it comes in a shade over 8 lbs. Depending on the load, the LR dots get me to 500 or 600 yards. There's miles and miles of timber in western Montana, and you'll spend a lot of time in it if you hunt elk. There's also places where you might need to stretch out a bit, like in an avalanche chute or above treeline at the head of a drainage. Some of it is horse country, some not. I do backpack from time to time.

I really would not want one of your guns for what I do. I can't imagine trying to still hunt through the timber for a couple hours with a rifle that heavy. And I sure as heck wouldn't want to backpack with one. As far as the loads you use, I wouldn't want to take a heavily quartering shot in the timber either.

You might be able to argue that I could get by with a different gun/load than I'm using, but it wouldn't be one of yours.

Got it so a 300 weatherby can kill a elk??

Happy New Years to you as well

John

John, very nice Bulls. Good for you! and the best in the New Year.

But I seem to get partially obscured, long to five hundred yard shots in poor light and tail-end angles when I chase elk. That, and I live in Iowa and have less than a week to do it or not every couple of years, come-what-may "global warming," at the time.

It also looks like I may have about twenty years on you; by experience, I won't go heavier than 8.5 pounds with a working 300 Wby, 340 Wby, or 375 and that works for me as I've done it for years after this game or that and in once in Africa.

While I wont shoot past six hundred, my object is to drive a [/b]high energy[b], bigger bullet from from stem to stern if I have to, and if I get a clear target, and an immobile one.

Anybody else can use what they can carry or what is carried and works for them and, and as they say, more power to them (you).

Would you shoot a Brn bear/ grizzly at 1,000 Yards? Or you just long range shoot elk??

The only thing I want to add to this rather entertaining thread that some of the "tactical" type rifles that get used would be next to useless when a grizz shows up unexpectedly at close range.....

As to real evidence "when a 300 Wby made a definable difference"--I don't know if that's even possible as I don't think you can eliminate all the variables in killing a bull elk. To begin with, bull elk are individuals too and one wonders if they don't vary at least somewhat in temperament and disposition as humans beings do.

And that's just the starting point of all those variables which goes to the heart of the decision to shoot the biggest thing within reason that you can accurately to cover those possibilities especially if you are limited in time and opportunity.


I certainly could be wrong but have never regretted taking that tact.

Both my .300WM and .338WM are in Ruger "boat paddle" stocks which are fairly light weight. The .300 is probably the heavier of the two as the .338 WM has a fluted, 22" barrel. Based on that I think I'd be OK with a light .300WBY. Don't see myself buying one but if Dad or Uncle had passed one down I wouldn't kick it out of bed.

I know the hay-burners take a lot of care - not just during the hunt but year-round, which is why I don't own any. We had them on the farm when I was a kid too small to wrap my legs around them. Dad would never buy a saddle so I learned how to bounce. I've only hunted on a four-legged animal once and only went a few hundred yards downhill to a beaver pond. That hunt was cut short a few minutes later when I remounted after watering the mule. It decided to head for the next county before I was in the saddle and I busted two ribs by bouncing off a log. By "gentleman's hunt" I was referring more to having the animal pack the rifle and gear in my backpack -- but give me a broken down old nag.

Burnsfeld carries a handgun but he probably won't admit it.

^^^ I forgot you guys are allowed to use handguns unlike us and our stupid laws......

I don't know. I've never shot one and only hunted them once.

But shrap seems to think it works well.



Travis

If I dint went to prison I'd have ben a coledge gradjewat.



Clark

Carry on!! You are always entertaining!!

George,

Thanks for the well reasoned post. Like most of us I like yipin and yappin about elk rifles.

As I said before I am a victim of my experiences and have never needed the bullet to reach the Stern when the bull was shot in the Stem. The important stuff lays in the Stem and having a bullet make it out the Stern (hindquarters) after destroying the vitals is not a requirement for my elk hunting.

As to shooting through the Stern (hind end), in an effort to reach the vitals in the Stem, we may have to part ways. Even with the best of penetrating bullets that shot is to risky for me. Bullets have a tenancy to do funny things in 4 feet of bone, muscle, guts and grass long before they get to the important stuff.

If one needs to immobilize a wounded bull going straight away then breaking the pelvic girdle is much more sure and my .264 Win Mag is more than enough gun.

The crux of the matter is that properly shot bulls tend to die pretty quick with a multitude of rounds. I like rounds that are the easier to shoot than the .300 Bee, resist the atmosphere better than the .300 Bee, and anchor properly hit bull with authority.

It's not that I think the .300 Wby won't work on elk, I just think there are better rounds for general elk hunting and that is the question in the OP.

Thanks again and as I suspect things are going to get a bit western please don't take anything posted below to be directed at you.

All righty then.







As a side note you might want to check the thread title "The 300 Wby Mag- is there anything better". The thread is actually about cartridges better than the .300 Wby, hence the reason I am here.



I like patterns. Spray Tan, Smile, Nice Bull, cartridge "better" than the .300 Wby.






Tell me more about this "energy".

While your at it please list anywhere that restricts a 6.5mm for dangerous game but allows a .300 Wby. As you will be Googling a bit throw the search term "WMD Bell" in and learn a bit on shot placement, 6.5mms, and elephants.

In the immortal words of a close personal friend of mine from Paradise AK "Who chews your food?"



I ain't sayin it is the only way but the recipe has proven to work pretty well. Up gun to a hot rod 6.5mm and we find a real sweet spot.



Who wants to talk about the .300 Wby? The thread is about "better". That's why I am here.

Side note on sucking, have you seen Shrappys sig line??



I don't know what's gayer, you writing that or him using it as a sig line.

Happy New Year.

Maybe.

I killed this one at 620yds. 7mm Mag/ 180gr VLD.





Why would I not admit to carrying a handgun??

Grizzly tracks in the snow. .264 Win Mag bull on the ground.



You dudes need to quit asking questions about me and my stuff. Shrappy don't like it.

Burnsfeld,

I've owned chocolate labs bigger than than terrifying griz of yours.

John, that grizzly is a beaut.

I don't want to belabor this gack but your reply to my last post made me think I may have given the impression I shoot a 300 B so that I can regularly shoot elk in the butt. Nope, I don't.

Sure you have, dipschit.

How about you hang a picture of a Grizzly you killed that was bigger.



At least you are a man of your word.




Thanks George,

I never thought you were a butt shooter and do appreciate your thoughtful and fun discussion on the matter of elk rifles even if we come to different conclusion as to the best elk cartridge.

Guys like you make the campfire tolerable when the lunnys start to run.

Thanks again.

Thats a good way to describe the virtues of the 300wby

I loved my .300wby with 180s and loved my later purchase .338win with 225s,

but my choice nowdays would be neither of those!
instead it would be the .340wby with fast 200-210 monometals.

It really offers it all:: speed,momentum, flat shooting and raking shot penetration.

Yeah. I said that when I thought you wanted to have an honest conversation about elk rifles. Now I think that deflaves take on the whole matter is probably correct.

It's funny because at one point, I respected you. Unfortunately, you have your orange head shoved so far up your bleached azzhole, I'm not sure if you'll ever get it out.

Okey Doekey.

That's not weird at all.

Next time a thread on Elk Rifle comes up and you start wondering if any of the posters have "bleached Azzholes" that would be a clue that you are really not so interested in elk rifles and might be happier haninging out at the "Blue Oyster Bar".

Not judgin, just sayin.

Hunting Bears with Tom Shankster?

Sure, why not??

Tom put on a great hunt and I had a metric butt load of fun.

Killed a decent blackie in addition to the Grizzly.



If I was to complain there seemed to be a bit much hiking. I killed the Grizzly at the very far left edge of the blackie picture and hiking that far seems you know "excessive".

A better outfitter would have had the Grizzlys and the Blackies in closer proximity. Good Lord I had a 10lbs rifle to carry.

Tom was really not all that sympathetic and sort went with the "toughen up buttercup, hike your azz up the river and kill a Grizzly." Tough Love is best Love.

As a real plus my guide had a awesome azz tattt.

glad you had a good time with him....

That Dillinger River country is pretty frickin nice. Sheep, Moose, Grizzly, Blackies in abundance. I suspect more than a "bunch" of fellows want Tom to lose it.

Not exactly the kind of thing to brag about on the net. But then you seem to not really be a high class sort of fellow.

Congratulations?

Oppsi, caught you before the edit, doushebag.

Yeah I went edited to clean it up figured leave it alone... Yeah I'm pretty low class fellow drink beer from a can sometimes from a bottle.. In general we don't care for out of state guides. Majority of the time they will shoot an area out and move onto another area.. If the unit 19 AC was smart they would do what unit 13 AC did and set it up where NR have to draw for a moose permit... Most Alaskans want to see sheep go to a draw for NR as well... But those are decisions for the AC and BOG...

What's wrong with that? It's sex with the person he loves most in all the world....

As an eastern guy who has hunted Moose a number of times but never hunted Elk (although I plan to ), I had always led to believe Elk were tougher to bring down than Moose and you need at least a 300 mag. Many of the gunwriters touted the various 338 mags as perfect I just accepted it because I didn't know. Then I started watching Best of the West on TV and those guys were doing some crazy things with the 7mm Rem. mag. I joined the CF and John Burns is doing those same things with a .264 mag. Thanks to them I have a different perspective and when I finally get around to Elk hunting I won't follow the eastern hype and go straight to a .300 mag. Whatever I do take will probably start with a 2. I don't shoot long range but I feel there is a lot to be gleaned from those who do.

Moose, in the elk rifle debate, one must keep in mind as with moose hunting.. We must think about Killing the game where it can be gotten out..Burns has mules for the job, and is willing to keep them year around for the hunting he does.. That is fine.. Most folks don't do that..

I gather you are a younger man, with lots of vim and vigor.. So you would probably shoot elk where I would pass.. But also a well hit elk can travel from a good retrieve to a hole in a death run..

Something to keep in mind.. I am sure I could kill an elk with a .222, but it might go a long way before I found it. Bob Hagel felt the core of the good elk rifles stated with the 7's and went through the .33's.. He like magnums for elk hunting.. He is someone I paid much attention to because he was like most hunters.. He hunted on his own, and in country that offered both still hunting though timber and open long range shooting.. He would say, as I would, 600 yards is long range.. He was a promoter of the the Mashburn 7mm and Nosler Partition bullets..
When hunting in the timber, or brush, one might have to drive a bullet though an elk at a bad angle.. Something to be considered.. It is easy to say, sitting in a warm room to I wouldn't take less than a perfect shot.. After 10 days of hard hunting most people will attempt a less than perfect shot..
To me, that is where I pick a rifle and bullet that will do the job under less than perfect conditions..

Good points Wyo. But I'm "fortysomething" so I don't qualify anymore for being full of "vim and vigor".

Moosemike, I concur with WCH. Cartridges from .22 to the .416's will kill elk but when you start considering the panapoly of limitations with cartridges toward each end of the spectrum, you start moving toward the middle (the old Bell Curve again) and it's there you begin slicing more thinly based on your own experiences, capabilities, and that of those whom you read about.

It's probably as much a mistake in going too big as it is in going too small. There's a point of convergence where your ability, preferences in platform, and cartridge size all meet and it does, within reason, vary widely from person to person.

At the end of the line, they are gloriously big, vigorous animals, that cling to life with a vengeance and deserve a humane, quick end.

" After 10 days of hard hunting most people will attempt a less than perfect shot.."

And there is the problem. Hunters get the idea that the magnums will make up for a less than perfect shot and take those shots because of it. Knowing full well they should put the safety back on. I'm not talking about when an animal might move at the last minute when he trigger is tripped,but when the hunter knows full well the shot is questionable.

It is the same as those hunters that pay $2000-$3000 in expenses and a hefty fee for the tag that go ahead and take a questionable shot because for that kind of money,they can't go home and eat tag soup.

"has mules for the job, and is willing to keep them year around for the hunting he does.. That is fine.. Most folks don't do that.."

There are a lot more hunters that do,than people imagine.

You're selling yourself short there, moose. 60 is the new 40.

Heck, then I'm just a whippersnapper. I like it!

Yup, still a youngster, hardly older than my oldest. I turn 65 in March and have gotten my last three elk (2012, 2013 and 2015) out by myself except for the last 75 yards this year, where I had help dragging the game cart. Never let someone tell you it is easy.

Shoot them close to and uphill from your truck and save yourself a lot of work.

I am not talking about a poor shot, but an angle shot.. Hagel knew with good bullets you can drive a heavy slug through a lot of elk..

I never have taken a shot like that but in shooting 11 head of African game with my 300 and 200 gr. Noslers, I found one bullet.. It was from a wildabeast hit in the front left shoulder and the bullet was found in the hip on the right side.. Otherwise everything was a complete pass though..

I realize some folks due keep animals for hunting.. But here in town I suppose I could easily find 50 elk hunters and I doubt three would have animals for the purpose of elk hunting..

I will be 69 in June.. My last elk, I had a good friend hunting with me and honestly he did most of the heavy work.. Otherwise, I suppose the last 10 elk I have gotten out by myself.. Makes one aware of the country he is hunting in, and also makes me want a weapon that does the job and quickly.. I can kill and elk with the .222, but I certainly wouldn't want to depend on it for general elk hunting..

In my experience the advantage of the .300 Weatherby (or any .300 magnum) is the ability to use deep-penetrating bullets like the 200-grain Partition at pretty good velocity. This makes it a good choice for hunting in timber at close range, where the shot might be at an extreme angle or through the heavy shoulder joint, and yet have enough reach for "conventional" longer shots across a park or clear-cut. In other words, they're good cartridges for all-around elk hunting, not specialized tools.

Yup..exactly

LC

Wish I were 69 again.73 this year.I took care of and packed own elk past season

Bingo. Perfect IMHO.

Usual Mule Deer explanation.

As usual, JB nailed it....

That's the exact reason I shoot the 200 accubond out of my 300 ultra mag....

Tony

Actually that point had been made several times throughout the unnecessarily long thread. John with credibility and good writing has made it more clear to those that just didn't get it...

If you actually used them,instead of reading about it, it's simple to understand.

Nothing like seeing first hand.

JB,

We all seem to agree that south end shots on north bound unwounded bulls is a bad plan.

Why would anyone need "deep-penetrating" any more in the timber than in the open?

If a rifle/cartridge works fine at 50yds in the open then what makes it unsuitable when there are trees around?

As I target the shoulder on most any shot and have never had a lick of problems smashing through it I still fail to see how a .300 Bee is going to kill a dead bull any more deader?

How many times in your entire hunting experience have you ever seen a bullet fail to penetrate the shoulder of a bull?

How many bulls have you killed with the .300 Bee that would have escaped wounded had you been shooting something with less penetration?

For every bull that gets away from a lack of "penetration" I would bet literally 1000 escape wounded from shot placement.

Bulls hit right die quick. Bulls hit wrong run far.

Shot placement counts for much more than penetration.

For Pete's sake, give it a rest!

We could argue about the belt on the case. Just for a change of pace I mean.

But I am hardly tired.

Love the sig line.

If Burnsfeld doesn't get it by now, he never wil. I think that spray tan stuff is toxic.

What about the "bleach". That can't be good.

Then again I might have kill a few bulls in a few places and sort figured a few things related to bull killin.

Here's a hint. Hit them in the right place and then "profit".

Thanks for noticing...

I don't think the change in the sig line is going to do what you think it might do.

Pretty sure it will be short lived, if you get what I am sayin.

You may be right, but even you could see the humor if it wasn't true...

LOL.

Not sayin it might not be true or you know True Enough.

This is the internet.

And I sure enough laughed out loud.

Fun at the Campfire is the gift that keeps on givin.

Even when a guy need to endure his time under the bus so to speak.

No, the only way to "profit" is by selling 5K rifles that are only worth $1500.

LOL.

You do realize I don't sell and have not sold bolt guns for over 4 years??

Wind up that whine!!

Just living off your trust fund now?

If you don't like someones opinion then gang up on that individual and chew on them like a pack of wolves. It's the Campfire way. Good thing Burns seems to be able to laugh it off.

John,

Let me provide a little of my elk hunting history before getting to various points about timber hunting. Grew up in Montana but for various reasons mostly hunted deer in the eastern part of the state until I was about 20, when I started elk hunting with a couple of mentors. There weren't nearly as many elk as there are now, and the Forest Service country my mentors hunted was heavily timbered--which is where the elk hung out. Would have to look at my hunting notes to make sure, but don't think I ever shot an elk at as MUCH as 100 yards in those years.

A different group of people hunted each area, anchored around my mentors, and consequently I got to see a variety of bullets and cartridges used, not just my own. Saw a bullet from popular 180-grain .30-06 factory load come apart on a bull's shoulder, just above the big joint--and about a decade later saw a 150 of the same make come apart on a mule deer's shoulder after hitting the joint. Both animals were eventually killed, but neither bullet made it past the ribs behind the shoulder.

Also saw cup-and-core bullets come apart on the neck of a 6-point bull and the rut-swollen neck of a very big-bodied mule deer buck. In both instances the empty jacket of the bullet was found resting against the spine, which wasn't broken. The elk still died, but only because a major blood vessel had been nicked, and it took half a mile to bleed out. If there hadn't been snow on the ground we might not have found it. The deer dropped at the shot, but after a minute or so started to struggle so was shot again. Both of those were 150-grain .270 bullets.

Also had an interesting encounter with a cow elk shot with what was supposedly a deep-penetrating bullet. The cow was trotting away up a hillside less than 75 yards away and the bullet entered behind the ribs on the left side. As it turned out the bullet was slowed by the grass-filled paunch, and only got into one lung, so that elk also went about half a mile before stopping and eventually dying. But there wasn't any snow on the ground and the meat was soured by the time the cow was found. Those aren't all the examples, by any means.

Eventually I decided to try Nosler Partitions, which were the only "premium" bullet available back then--and soon settled on the 200-grain in the .30-06. This was awhile ago when the 200 Partition was a "semi-spitzer," essentially a roundnose, but at less than 100 yards it didn't matter. I never, ever saw any of those same problems again, whether I was shooting at an elk's shoulder or neck, or angling a bullet into the left side up through the edge of the paunch into the chest cavity.

The 200 Partition semi-spitzer was made until the late 70's, when it became a spitzer. I have shot more elk with 200 Partitions from various .30's from the .30-06 to the .300 Weatherby than any other bullet, at ranges from under 50 to around 400 yards, and yes, there is a difference in shooting elk in heavy timber. Often only a small part of the animal is visible, and the right place to put the bullet is the neck, the big shoulder joint, or ahead of the rump into the chest. Often you have to shoot right now or not shoot at all, with no time to wait or maneuver to put the bullet in a "softer" spot.

I am not fond of neck shots, but will take them if the elk is facing directly toward or away from me, because the spine is then centered in the neck. And in my experience with a lot of different bullets, a shoulder joint or even just the edge of the paunch will stop some, or at least slow them down enough to prevent full penetration of the chest cavity.

About a dozen years ago I shot a 6-point bull in thick creekbottom cover at 75 yards. The bull was looking to my left so the spine wasn't centered in the neck, but the shoulder was exposed through a little lane in the brush, so I put a 200-grain Partition from a .300 Winchester Magnum into the big shoulder joint, and the bull went about 35 yards before keeling over. The bullet not only busted the joint but penetrated both lungs and exited the rear of the ribs on the other side.

On another occasion a raghorn bull was already hit in the chest, broadside, but didn't fall. He was across a park at a little over 300 yards and started walking slowly up the far hillside, directly away, but paused at about 375 and I angled a 200 Partition from a .300 Weatherby into his chest, which had to pass through the abdominal cavity. The bull dropped and never moved, because the bullet made it all the way up into the chest. It turned out he would have died from the first shot, but like you I tend to keep shooting until elk go down and stay down.

You know I like Bergers, but I have seen a 185 Berger from a .300 Winchester Magnum fail to penetrate the chest of a 150-pound feral goat from a left-side angling shot, because it hit the paunch. Some of the bullet did make it into the left lung but that was it--and that was at over 300 yards. I am not about the try the same sort of shot with a Berger on an elk in the timber, but with a 200-grain Nosler Partition will take that shot anytime, because I know the bullet will keep penetrating through the chest. These days other bullets will do the same thing, but they didn't exist back in the mid-70's, and after almost 40 years of positive results with the 200 Partition I still use it for a lot of my hunting.

Have since hunted elk in a few other places than Montana, from New Mexico to northern British Columbia, but these days am back to mostly hunting them on public land near home, and the places I hunt are remarkably like the ones hunted 40-some years ago, with plenty of thick timber and only very rare openings where a 300-yard shot might be possible. Most elk spend most of their time in the timber, so that's where they're shot.

Come to think of it, can't remember many elk shot much past 100 yards in the 25 years my wife and I have been hunting our area, but one was the cow my wife killed at a lasered (after the shot) 123 yards last fall. It was angling away to the right, and a 100-grain Tipped TSX from her .257 Roberts dropped it right there. Eileen has shot quite a bit of game with the 115 Berger Hunting VLD from the same rifle, but for a quartering-away angling shot on an elk she also tends to prefer a little more penetration.

I think "the best elk cartridge/bullet" threads get sideways partly cause people hunt elk differently and in varying topography.

Ive killed elk and witnessed quit a few kids/women kill elk with a 243 and would gladly do it again given the right hunt and topography.

If the hunt I had dictated my best chance was hunting North slopes I wouldn't even think of a 243.

John, your sense of humor and lack of acrimony at differing opinions is really refreshing.

Edit: meant Burns but on further consideration should include the other John B too😊

[quote=Mule Deer]John,

Let me provide a little of my elk hunting history before getting to various points about timber hunting. Grew up in Montana but for various reasons mostly hunted deer in the eastern part of the state until I was about 20, when I started elk hunting with a couple of mentors. There weren't nearly as many elk as there are now, and the Forest Service country my mentors hunted was heavily timbered--which is where the elk hung out. Would have to look at my hunting notes to make sure, but don't think I ever shot an elk at as MUCH as 100 yards in those years.

A different group of people hunted each area, anchored around my mentors, and consequently I got to see a variety of bullets and cartridges used, not just my own. Saw a bullet from popular 180-grain .30-06 factory load come apart on a bull's shoulder, just above the big joint--and about a decade later saw a 150 of the same make come apart on a mule deer's shoulder after hitting the joint. Both animals were eventually killed, but neither bullet made it past the ribs behind the shoulder.

Also saw cup-and-core bullets come apart on the neck of a 6-point bull and the rut-swollen neck of a very big-bodied mule deer buck. In both instances the empty jacket of the bullet was found resting against the spine, which wasn't broken. The elk still died, but only because a major blood vessel had been nicked, and it took half a mile to bleed out. If there hadn't been snow on the ground we might not have found it. The deer dropped at the shot, but after a minute or so started to struggle so was shot again. Both of those were 150-grain .270 bullets.

Also had an interesting encounter with a cow elk shot with what was supposedly a deep-penetrating bullet. The cow was trotting away up a hillside less than 75 yards away and the bullet entered behind the ribs on the left side. As it turned out the bullet was slowed by the grass-filled paunch, and only got into one lung, so that elk also went about half a mile before stopping and eventually dying. But there wasn't any snow on the ground and the meat was soured by the time the cow was found. Those aren't all the examples, by any means.

Eventually I decided to try Nosler Partitions, which were the only "premium" bullet available back then--and soon settled on the 200-grain in the .30-06. This was awhile ago when the 200 Partition was a "semi-spitzer," essentially a roundnose, but at less than 100 yards it didn't matter. I never, ever saw any of those same problems again, whether I was shooting at an elk's shoulder or neck, or angling a bullet into the left side up through the edge of the paunch into the chest cavity.

The 200 Partition semi-spitzer was made until the late 70's, when it became a spitzer. I have shot more elk with 200 Partitions from various .30's from the .30-06 to the .300 Weatherby than any other bullet, at ranges from under 50 to around 400 yards, and yes, there is a difference in shooting elk in heavy timber. Often only a small part of the animal is visible, and the right place to put the bullet is the neck, the big shoulder joint, or ahead of the rump into the chest. Often you have to shoot right now or not shoot at all, with no time to wait or maneuver to put the bullet in a "softer" spot.

I am not fond of neck shots, but will take them if the elk is facing directly toward or away from me, because the spine is then centered in the neck. And in my experience with a lot of different bullets, a shoulder joint or even just the edge of the paunch will stop some, or at least slow them down enough to prevent full penetration of the chest cavity.

About a dozen years ago I shot a 6-point bull in thick creekbottom cover at 75 yards. The bull looking to my left so the spine wasn't centered in the neck, but the shoulder was exposed through a little lane in the brush, so I put a 200-grain Partition from a .300 Winchester Magnum into the big shoulder joint, and the bull went about 35 yards before keeling over. The bullet not only busted the joint but penetrated both lungs and exited the rear of the ribs on the other side.

On another occasion a raghorn bull was already hit in the chest, broadside, but didn't fall. He was across a park at a little over 300 yards and started walking slowly up the far hillside, directly away, but paused at about 375 and I angled a 200 Partition from a .300 Weatherby into his chest, which had to pass through the abdiminal cavity. The bull dropped and never moved, because the bullet made it all the way up into the chest. It turned out he would have died from the first shot, but like you I tend to keep shooting until elk go down and stay down.

You know I like Bergers, but I have seen a 185 Berger from a .300 Winchester Magnum fail to penetrate the chest of a 150-pound feral goat from a left-side angling shot, because it hit the paunch. Some of the bullet did make it into the left lung but that was it--and that was at over 300 yards. I am not about the try the same sort of shot with a Berger on an elk in the timber, but with a 200-grain Nosler Partition will take that shot anytime, because I know the bullet will keep penetrating through the chest. These days other bullets will do the same thing, but they didn't exist back in the mid-70's, and after almost 40 years of positive results with the 200 Partition I still use it for a lot of my hunting.

Have since hunted elk in a few other places than Montana, from New Mexico to northern British Columbia, but these days am back to mostly hunt them on public land near home, and the places I hunt are remarkably like the ones hunted 40-some years ago, with plenty of thick timber and only very rare openings where a 300-yard shot might be possible. Most elk spend most of their time in the timber, so that's where they're shot.

Come to think of it, can't remember many if any elk shot much past 100 yards in the 25 years my wife and I have been hunting our area, and that was the cow my wife killed at a lasered (after the shot) 123 yards last fall. It was angling away to the right, and a 100-grain Tipped TSX from her .257 Roberts dropped it right there. Eileen has shot quite a bit of game with the 115 Berger Hunting VLD from the same rifle, but for a quartering-away angling shot on an elk she also tends to prefer a little more penetration.

[/quote

I enjoy reading your clear, concise and informative writing gained from years of real world experience. This and your last post are everything that needs to be said.

Excellent point and one which should be evident,but sometimes is not.

There certainly is no shortage of opinion on elk cartridges. But that is usually the case - even after all we have available in the marketplace.

JB,

Thanks for the response. As I said I am just a victim of my experience.

This year the elk count is at 17 and the season runs tell the end of this month.

I would say your response was more about bullets and not so much about why nothing is "better" than the .300 Weatherby.

Congrats to Eileen on her elk and tell her I said HI.

John



Thanks George,

I enjoy discussing elk guns and stuff with guys like you and JB.

John,

Will definitely tell her hi and congrats!

Yeah, my response was more about bullets than the .300 Weatherby, but one of the reasons the .300 Weatherby (and other .300 magnums) are popular among elk hunters is they can push reasonably heavy premium bullets fast enough to work well both at very close range and out a ways. I've taken elk with smaller rounds, of course, and they've all done the job, but don't feel the same confidence in smaller bullets in taking the tough angling or shoulder shots. They would probably work fine, and in fact have seen good performance from bullets like the Barnes TSX and Nosler Partition in smaller caliber on both on elk and moose. But have EVERY confidence in the 200 Partition just from using it so often in varying conditions!

I also think--also based on considerable experience--that the majority of hunters can't shoot .300 magnums very well, which of course is another, very real factor. They would obviously be better off with a lighter-kicking round, as Eileen is with the .257 Roberts.

One thing's for sure: It's nice to have so many elk around to hunt these days!

Of course. The .338 Winchester Magnum, with 250 grain bullets is the best Elk gun in the world! Period.

tenacious thread.

And wonderfully backpedaled... The puny 270 Win worked for me on a big bodied 5x5 at only 250 yards with the 140 gr TSX.

God thing that bull wasn't standing another 10 yards out or you would have discovered what a poor choice the .270 Win is!

Yup,it's the "Energizer Bunny" of threads.

Despite all this excruciating nit picking, if someone gave me an elk hunt and said I had to use a 300 Weatherby I'd be on the plane pronto.

I've shot them with a 300 Weatherby and 300 Winchester mag and I'll be damned if I could tell the difference.You can lump the 300 Weatherby, 300 Win, 338, 340 Weatherby,8 Rem mag all in a pile as far as I'm concerned. Seen elk killed with all of them.

Trying to distinguish the effects on game from such closely matched cartridges is a waste of time.

This oughta liven things up....

I have a number of rifles from 17 to 338 but if i had to pick just one rifle cal to hunt all big game with including Elk it would be the 30-06

There's one in every crowd.....

Smart man.

Hammerdown....laffin!

Not so much smart, but at my age just gimme a rifle and let me go hunting....I'll get it worked out!

Bingo!

I've hunted elk with a .44 Mag revolver and carbine. Marlin lever guns .30-30, .375 Winchester and .45-70, and bolts in .257 Roberts, .280 Rem, 7mm Rem Meg, .308 Win, .30-06, .300 Win Mag and .338 Win Mag. The only time I felt a significant range restriction was with the .44 Mags, the .30-30 and the .375 Winchester.

Give me 2000fps and 1500fpe at 300 yards and the ergos of the launch platform matter more than the cartridge.

The best all-around elk cartridge for the majority of hunters is likely the 270 Win. shooting 130 gr TTSX, 140 TSX, 140 gr TBBCs or 140 or 150 gr Partitions. With any of these bullets, at close to long range -you can get it done!

For any more power, step up to a 300 Win Mag with 180 gr (same type of bullets) and you can shoot them up the butt if you prefer (unethical for me) but they'll still go down or be shocked long enough for a second shot.

If you want more power after this, you'd have to go all the way up to a 416 Rem. mag. to see any difference in effect. Then, with 400 gr bullets you can watch them die but maybe die slower than with the previous two cartridges but at least you can feel like you're pounding them.

John Burns, I respect your talent but I do not respect your practice of long-range "SHOOTING" of game animals as it flies in the face of "Fair Chase Hunting" that our former President Roosevelt was so proud in establishing. If you have a good conscious you'd sleep better at night if your legacy was teaching the next generation of hunters the ethical practice of stalking in closer rather than be known as someone who can "shoot" versus "HUNT" animals.

A lot of talking out your azz in this post. You say the 270 can "get it done" "close to long range", then you criticize one of the best long range shooters here. If he can make clean ethical kills with 1 shot, it's not up to you to tell him he can't or it's "unethical". In your post about the 270 Winchester, what is your idea of "long range"? You say it can get it done. How far have you shot a big game animal with the 270 Winchester and made a nice clean 1 shot kill if it works so nicely at long range? On one had you say something works great at long range and on the other you criticize another member for making long range shots? Are you going to criticize scenarshooter (Pat) or GSSP or any of the other long range shooters here as well? There are guys out there that can easily make 600+ yard shots on game day in and day out here. I'd suggest you re-think what the word ethical means... . About time you broaden your fu cking horizons, because if you ever had to shoot with guys like John Burns or scenarshooter, it would be all about getting a better education...

I can shoot and hit a 10"x 10" steel plate at the 700 yard range (the max distance at my range) 100% of the time unless the wind is truly gusty. Will I ever shoot an animal at that range? NO. If I did, I'd barely have to get out of my truck (or at least just enough to meet the legal requirements) in some locations of CA, AZ, CO and WY that I hunt in to get my deer, elk, Pronghorn, even bear.

I will say this: with a properly tuned rifle, almost anyone with coaching can place a shot on target at 700 yards, even 1000 yards or more. Shooting at a target and hunting big game animals to me and many other hunters is quite different. Each person has their own ethics.

I ask: At what range does it cross over from the actual action of hunting to just being able to shoot animals from so far away that it impedes the fairness of the 'chase'and violates the spirit of the hunter and the game and crosses the line of fair chase hunting?

Only you, maybe God and I can answer this for ourselves. This said, the implication is self-evident: The more mainstream 'long range shooting' becomes, the more people rationalize distance "shooting" as "hunting" (which it is not) and as an acceptable action of "the hunt" and most either do not have the capability (and therefore wound game or endanger others) or lose the values and skills of a great outdoors-person and of the 'chase' as in fair chase hunting.

Edited to add that while John Burns may possess both the skill and the hunting prowess to get closer to game animals; he has chosen to carve out a public niche for himself and mainly shoot at extreme ranges where neither hunting prowess nor woodsman skill are required and where there is no 'fair chase' in the hunting...hunting looses it's action verb "to hunt" and the only thing he needs most of the time is the ability to squeeze the trigger of his finely tuned sophisticated bullet propellant to a target. While many of us have this ability to shoot long range, I cannot say it is hunting for the reasons mentioned above.

You take your .270 Win with a 150g and I'll take my 7mm RM with a 160g and I guess we'll both be happy.

To my way of thinking taking a THS is not at all unethical if you are trying to stop a wounded or possibly wounded animal - in which case I'll take my .300 and 180g bullets, thank you very much. I've driven them lengthwise through mule deer and never captured one in elk.

You've skipped a lot of middle ground between a .300 and a .416. My .338WM definitely makes bigger holes and, like my .300WM, has always made two.

While I think we can agree that a lot of long range hunters are in it to see just how far they can do it, and thus make little effort to get closer, there are some that are skilled enough that what constitutes long range for them is equivalent to less than 100 yards for others. A few years back I listened as a guy shot the better part of a box of ammo trying to bring down an elk at ranges from 100 to about 300 yards. Another person watching said he thought two were wounded but none dropped. It is people like that "hunter" that I get angry with. If John Burns and others with his skills can take animals at ranges beyond my capabilities - or yours - I say good for them, even if I would prefer they try to get closer when possible. Shooting skill is just one of the skills a hunter needs.

I agree with you on most; shooting is an essential skill.

I've noticed no real difference between a 300 Win Mag with 180-200 gr bullets and a 338 win mag with 225-250 gr. bullets on Elk. This said, I've not seen a statistically valid sample to compare. I have shot bear and moose with the 375 H&H and noticed no difference in their demise versus my 300 win mag. This is the only reason why I skipped it and jumped to the .416; albeit someone would have to be crazy to purposefully use a 416 Rem Mag to hunt Elk I'm sure it would do very well.

John Burns, I respect your talent and certainly do respect your practice of long-range "SHOOTING" of game animals as it definitely is a good example of "Fair Chase Hunting" that our former President Roosevelt was so proud in establishing. If you have a good conscious you'd sleep better at night if your legacy was teaching the next generation of hunters the ethical practice of doping the wind and teaching them to "HUNT" animals.

I know one thing for sure if you are off a wee bit or if the elk is not in good position a lot of meat is wasted with the heavy hitters. Trust me I know. I agree with using a 270 with the better bullets now available nowaday. Long ago many considered the 270 light for big game but we never had the better quality bullets now available. The only real advantage for heavy hitters is that they can shoot through a lot of brush or trees and still get the job done. Depends on where you hunt also has to be entered
in the equation.

I'd rather lose "a lot of meat" than an entire animal.

Guys, it is settled. There's nothing better than a 300 Bee.

......and it only took 4 years and two months, 378 replies, and 73,753 views to get there!

No, because there isn't any consensus that the .300 WBY is the best. While the .300 WBY is a fine choice for elk for some there are many other options that are just as good or even much better for individual hunters.

The OP's original post was full of false, judgmental assumptions and non-sequiturs in order to bolster his position.




There are many cartridges that provide flat trajectory, massive downrange energy and sub MOA accuracy. Many do it with less recoil and similar bullet and ammo selection. "Widely universal availability of factory ammo" is a sophomoric self-contradiction and there are cartridges with even better availability.

If I was going on a trophy bull hunt, yes, I could come up with a choice that is better for me. My 7mm RM, .300WM or .338WM or even one of my .30-06 rifles would do just fine and if I was going to buy a new rifle for the purpose it wouldn't be a .300 WBY.

Nor do I like the Op's choice of a Barnes TSX as the bullet of choice. A Barnes TTSX, North Fork SS, Swift A-Frame or Nosler AccuBond or Partition would be my preference.

Choosing something less than a .300 WBY doesn't mean a person is "undergunned" but the opposite is often true - many hunters can't shoot a .300 WBY well and would be better off with something else. My hunting buddy has a diabetes related shoulder issues and has a problem with the recoil of his 7mm RM. We got a .308 Win for Daughter #1 because of recoil issues. Neither would do well wiht a .300 WBY. In a similar vein, choosing something more (a .300 RUM for example) doesn't mean the hunter is "overrun" by the higher recoil.

I don't have any idea what Roy would endorse as "perfection" on elk but, in any case, his personal choice is irrelevant to millions of hunters with their own individual requirements and capabilities.

Yes, I hear ya. Give me a good rifle and lets go hunting. I'll be happy just being there.

Good lord Coyote Hunter. I'm just glad that I don't have to be around you in social situations. It would be really embarrassing.

Interesting calibers mentioned here but as for the best all around I'd have to vote 06. I'm still taking the 300RUM when that time comes around again.

Bob,

Mine, all properly hit, have dropped to the 35 Whelen (225 gr TSX), 338-06 (210 gr Partiton and 185 gr TSX), 375 H&H (260 gr Partition) and, most recently, the 270 Win (140 gr TSX). Looking back I cannot recall any observed difference in the time to death. None moved either not at all or a couple of steps or leaps.

Ed I know intuitively there has to be a difference offered by those bigger cartridges and bullets but when the ballistics are so closely lumped together among comparable cartridges, it can be hard to tell sometimes from the terminal effect on the animals.

I guess if we shot enough of them with enough bullets we might see a pattern emerge for stuff 30 and up. I have noticed that(for example) that 30 caliber bullets from magnum cases is right where there's more damage (trauma?) to animals than from smaller calibers...at least that's what my eyeballs showed me. From there the next step seems to be 375.

Elk are funny....phlegmatic,sort of, in their ability to take a hit giving no indication...then keel over dead. I can dig why some people use bigger stuff.

Yes . Whatever I choose to carry any given day.

Personally I feel that modern era mankind has had it rather easy with the convenience of modern weapons
centerfires & scopes (regardless of distance), and that the genuine/original ethos of "fair chase" and " spirit of the hunter"
has mostly died or diminished when we stopped thrusting spears into animals from a couple yds, it was such long standing
primitive methods which put us on much more even ground during the pursuit of wild game....alas we now live in the world of high modern convenience, but we have lost something valuable in the process.
Even when we look at war, some are engaged in it the detached modern way, say as a pilot dropping bombs from above quite remote from his target and the personal human factor, then we have those guys in the trenches who did savage do or die bayonet charges and saw and felt their human targets right up close & personal, often looking into their enemies eyes sometimes from just a few inches as they thrust the bayonet in again and again....Same war but two totally different experiences and demands on a human, the second one portraying mans most primitive/primordal instincts of survival and harking back to the times when humans killing humans(or wild animals), almost always demanded it be done up close and personal....todays technology allows todays hunters be much more detached resulting in less exposure to experiences of what I call "brutal intimacy" with nature during the act of killing game.

There is no specific crossover range - everyone has to draw their own line, which will most likely vary for each unique situation - and hunters still have plenty of opportunity to experience "brutal intimacy" gutting and dismembering an animal once it is on the ground.

The concept of "fair chase" is undoubtedly a fairly modern concept rather than an ancient one but in any case it has many different definitions as it, too, is an individual concept. You might get many people to agree on a fairly broad definition but when it comes to evaluating specific situations disagreements will certainly arise.

Over the years I've met people who had no concern for "fair chase" and nothing I would consider "spirit of the hunter" but rather just what was to me kind of a sick blood lust - a desire to kill with no respect at all for the quarry. One such person was a Baptist minister. On the other hand, I've met many more hunters who had great respect for the game they were hunting and whose goal was to harvest it as quickly and humanely as possible. The concepts of "fair chase" and "spirit of the hunter" are not dead but they are strangers to many people. In my rather small sampling of hunters, I would say they are in the minority.

I'm planning my first elk hunt, so there's my levl of expertise on elk, but the way I figure, they aren't much different than a kudu or a host of other similarly-sized African game which I have taken so here goes:

1. What cartridges do you consider "better" than the 300 Weatherby and why.

2. As to Karamojo Bell and the 7x57 on elephant, anybody who's read about his exploits knows this was not his preferred cartridge, he lost a lot of elephant with it and it is really not a relevant issue. The issue of a what constitutes 'Enough Gun' (to quote Taylor since we're quoting African PHs), and a 243 is really a stupid choice for kudu, unless of course we can go from the sublime to the ridiculous as there are verified exploits of elephants taken with a 22 LR (Capstick).

Suffice to say, JB covered it well, and the "hot placement over caliber" red-herring is just as ridiculous when one takes the "stunt shooting" angle which is exactly what going after an elk-size animal with a 243.



Cheers, j

jorge,

Bell's favorite elephant rifle was his custom 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54, which he plainly states somewhere in one of his books, but he gave it up because problems with the ammo, mostly split cases.

"Use Enough Gun" comes from a Ruark quote of Harry Selby, not Taylor.

A good friend's wife took her first three big game animals last year in Africa with a .243. Kudu wasn't on the list, and her first was an impala, but gemsbok and blue wildebeest (both generally considered tougher than kudu) also each fell to one 85-grain Nosler Partition.

I'm not going to debate whether of not a .300 wthby is better or worse than another round.

I've always stated that you need enough cartridge with the proper bullet to make a "CLEAN" harvest with a properly placed shot.

Some might argue that a .22-250 would qualify, while others would claim that you need a heavy magnum.

As ethical hunters, we owe it to the game to make a clean, one shot, game down harvest. If we miss the clean shot, and wound the animal, I would hope that we had a round with enough energy to at least drop the animal and have a follow up kill shot to take it, rather than following a poor blood trail for miles and lose an animal to infection or the coyotes.


JMHO


Jeff

John: I am quite sure of what you said regarding the 243. That said, I think it's not a wise move on game of that size. As to Bell, and by his own admission, he lost a lot of tuskers because of those small calibers and he readily admitted the advantage of the Nitro doubles for that application. j

?? Where did you read that Bell stated he lost many bulls using his 7x57..?..how can that be when Bell wrote the 7x57 worked admirably
on so many bulls? Bell purchased 6 Rigby 7x57 mausers, why would he do this if they were consistent duds on elephant?

btw: His favorite ele drilling kit before the 7x57, was his stubby Daniel Frazer .256 Mannlicher carbine....
which he purchased after his long barrelled Gibbs .256 Mannlicher.

this from Bell,

" Speaking personally, my greatest successes have been obtained
with the 7 mm. Rigby-Mauser or 276, with the old round-nosed solid,
..It seemed to show a remarkable aptitude for finding the brain of an elephant. "
-- Wanderings Of An Elephant Hunter., WDM Bell.



?? Where exactly did Bell supposedly make those two admissions...?

this from Bell,

" For the style of killing which appeals to me most the light calibres
are undoubtedly superior to the heavy. In this style you keep perfectly
cool and are never in a hurry. You never fire unless you can clearly see
your way to place the bullet in a vital spot. That done the calibre of the
bullet makes no difference. But to some men of different temperament
this style is not suited. They cannot or will not control the desire to shoot
almost on sight if close to the game. For these the largest bores are none
too big. If I belonged to this school I would have had built a much more
powerful weapon than the -600 bores. " -- WDM Bell, Wanderings OF AN Elephant Hunter.


" At one time I used a double -45 0-400. It was a beautiful weapon, but heavy.
Its drawbacks I found were : it was slow for the third and succeeding shots ; it was noisy ;
the cartridges weighed too much ; the strikers broke if a shade too hard or flattened and cut
the cap if a shade too soft ; the caps of the cartridges were quite unreliable ; and finally, if any
sand, grit or vegetation happened to fall on to the breech faces as you tore along you were done ;
you could not close it. Grit especially was liable to do this when following an elephant which had
had a mud bath, leaving the vegetation covered with it as he passed along. This would soon dry
and tumble off at the least touch."
-- WDM Bell, Wanderings of An elephant Hunter.

I specifically referred to the up & close personal act of killing a living beast,
not just chopping up the lifeless inert carcass like you would in a butcher shop,
two different things in my mind.

Whether I killed an animal at a few feet or 500 yards I've never felt much difference in the "brutal intimacy" of the act itself. Maybe that is because of the mindset I have about killing them in the first place, which is to respect the life I am attempting to take. Dismembering the animals, however, is always brutally intimate, whether it is doves or elk or something in-between.

More than a few times I have passed on extremely long or difficult shots and gone home empty-handed as a result. The longest of those shots were well beyond my capability and the most difficult have been as close as 100 yards. I do think that many people taking shots in such conditions have little or no respect for the animal itself. That isn't a problem of range so much as it is the mindset of the hunter.

YMMV

Once April Fools is over, dredging up another topic to flog seems to be the Soup du jour...

The joke's on you and your buddies.......

There is a reference to Bell in Terry Wieland's book. "Rifles for Africa" on page 71-73 as to the reasons why he chose and eventually dropped the 7X57 in favor of the 318, WR, 350 Rigby and eventually the 416. In the doubles, I was indeed mistaken, as I was thinking of Taylor and not Bell. But his quotes are there in Wieland's book as to the wounding and losing elephant, and the real reason as to why he initially hunted wit the 7X57.

Good post CH. A guy needs to know his limitations. If he doesn't, he needs to be practicing a whole hell of a lot more. A poor shot at short distance is just as bad as a poor shot at long range as far as I'm concerned. However, if you know you can make the shot (with 100% certainty), it doesn't matter what range or how far the shot is...

I'd think a 300 Weatherby would an excellent cartridge with premium bullets. There would be occasions where I'd prefer a rifle such as a 350 RM. I often hunt in the thick woods and a 300 Weatherby is usually found on a rather long rifle. Where I'll be hunting this fall the reports are that most elk are shot in less than 50 yards. But that may not be your hunting ground.
My favorite elk round is 338 WM with 250 grain Nosler Partitions.
If you're hunting in an area where Grizzlies may challenge you for the right to your elk and you have no other choice but to kill or be killed, would that change your mind on what you're hunting with?
I know it's popular with many to use the smallest cartridge possible. But I lean the other way. I want total penetration no matter where an what angle I shoot the elk with and I want to stand my ground after the elk is down. So the selection of cartridge would depend a lot on the terrain and unfriendly animals.
One more thing, if you were hunting next to an a map preserve such as Yellowstone Park and there's a hunter over every hill. You'd probably want to anchor that animal.
Again that 300 Weatherby would be as good as any in most situations.

Bell liked the larger .318 for the difficult oblique shot, its extra penetration allowed him to get through the neck mass region before reaching the brain.
At first, Bell thought he was misplacing with his 7x57 solids on the oblique brain shots, but then discovered the problem was lack of penetration, but
outside of that, the 7x57 pretty much covered all other shots on the brain very effectively.

Bell purchased two .416 Rigby mausers in 1913, and the first edition of his book came in 1923, in it he still praises the smaller bores for elephant.

"..Again, the smallest bore rifles with cartridges of a modern military description, such as the -256, -275,
•303 or -318, are quite sufficiently powerful for the brain shot. The advantages of these I need hardly enumerate..."
-- WDM Bell, Wanderings of An elephant Hunter.

" As regards rifles, I will simply state that I have tried the following : -416, -450/ -400, 360, 350, -318, 275 and -256.
At the time I possessed the double -400 I also had a 275. Sometimes I used one and sometimes the other, and it began
to dawn on me that when an elephant was hit in the right place with the 275 it died just as quickly as when hit with the -400,
....... I continued to use the -275 and the -256 in all kinds of country and for all kinds of game. Each hunter should use
the weapon he has most cojifidence in. -- WDM Bell, Wanderings of An elephant Hunter

Frankly, I don't care what Bell did or didn't use.

I do know a 300 WBY is not needed for mature bull elk, especially those behind a high fence.

But extra power, provided one can pack and shoot it, is never a bad thing.

If I wanted more than a 270/30-06, I'd skip right over the 300 WBY (or any 300) and use a 338 WM.

Brad ,
no you personally don't have to care what Bell used, but fact remains what Bell used on a wide range of PG is not entirely irrelevant,
with his moderate velocity .256 and .285 he killed a whopping pile variety of plains game simliar in size and even substantially larger than elk,
and Bell makes a very valid point that applies to anyone anywhere, that there is no hard and fast rule in choosing a cartridge, but rather, one
should use the rig they have the most confidence in.

So really it is irrelevant as to what Bell used. Please re read your post.

Weatherby=ultimate "dude" rifle.

Read my sig line:


Aside, what's your experience with 7x57-esque cartridges (or any cartridges) on elk?

What does a fence have to do with it? Having never shot an elk I would not know, but I have shot a few "elk-sized" animals and without question, the 300 Weatherby kills them well. I have taken your suggestion of going with the lightest rifle, my 24" tubed Mauser action Weatherby and my pre-64 Custom 338 are the lightest rifles I own in bigger calibers, but I take it you would prefer the 338 (w say, 210s) over the 300s w 180s)? Oh yeah, I use TTSXs that I know yo don't care for, but that's non-negotiable....

PS: Edited to add, "our" old friend Allen Day's favorite elk cartridge was the 300 WM...

The high fence comment is based on years of being on these forums. One guy agonized endlessly over a suitable cartridge only to report back he'd essentially shot the elk in a 20 acre pen!

Not saying the 300's aren't fine elk cartridges (I've used them), just saying for my own personal use, if I'm going to get rocked by recoil, I'll skip right past the 300's and pack a 22" bbl'd 338. With a 210 Partition I consider that combo to be the "ultimate" elk setup. Fortunately I don't need the "ultimate" anything

As to Allen, he was a Partition man to the core (pun intended). Like me he found them quicker killers, while having penetration in spades.