Generaly how many points do elk develope in the first 2-3yrs? I've got a chance to go on a cull cow/young bull elk hunt? Cows are a $800 bulls are $1200. Culls are 5pts or less. He said cows weigh 4-450lbs and bulls 'depends' is what he said. capt david

Assuming good feed and genetics, 4 points is possible. Maybe even a real small, scraggly 5 point, depending on how big a bump you want to call a point.

a basic 4 point is typical of 2 year old bulls, but 5 or more are possible. Will still be a spindly little rack. At 3, there's typically a little more mass and 5 points are pretty common.

Never know what you're gonna get though. This little guy is a 7x7:

Get up into Alberta and those 3 yr olds can have some fairly good sixe 5X5's

350 must be the live weight.2-3 3 yr old bull won't be much bigger,but some. Depends on the forage available.

I've taken a number of 5-point 2 1/2 yr olds, but 6-points, at least in my experience have all been a minimum of 3 1/2. Four points seem somewhat rare altogether.

Feed, genetics, and age produce mass and the most rare 7 or 8 point.

I saw a bull today that was a 5x6 and only 2.5. Tiny little bull, but he had six points. 3.5 year old bulls are noticeably bigger than 2.5 year old bulls, usually solid five points.

It's a crappy picture, but here's what's a pretty normal 2.5 year old bull, with a pretty big 3.5 year old bull.

Very true..My last 5X5 had a huge body more so than some 6X6's..Deliverance comes to mind and proper gene pools.

Nothing is written in stone when it comes to Elk.

Jayco

Here's a picture I took this morning. Lower one is a 2 year old, top bedded is a 3 year old. There's a big difference between them.

The largest bodied elk I ever shot was aged at 9 1/2. She was a dry cow I found alone in some deadfall timber. My partners accused me of abetting her suicide!
I've shot several yearling to 3 year old bulls but none as big as her. The largest bodied bull I've shot was a 360 class 6x6 we drug out with horses and I'd guess he'd give the old cow a run for the money size wise.
Guess it depends on if you want horns or meat.

I can't spit out the citation, but the antlers gathered annually from a bull on the Umatilla Army Depot here in Oregon were progressively heavier until the bull passed 9 yrs.

I just killed a spike bull that was #400 hanging.

My pard killed a two year old bull in a less agricultural area and it is smaller in weight....thank god, it was 4 miles deep.

Hey Ex.. - I've NOT seen an elk up-close so take this into consideration.

Our whitetail deer only get mass in the antlers w/age. IF your pic were of a whitetail w/that mass on the main beam, we would
say the buck HAD GREAT POTIENTIAL.

I know I'm only looking at a pic. Would you describe the mass of this 'young' bull in comparrison to an older one.

I also know in deer & elk ALL males are not equal.

From my perspective that 'young' bull had great potiential.

Explain how/why I might be wrong, please.
Jerry

That mass isn't particularly remarkable. Typical of a two year old. He probably did have great potential, and I figured he was just a 4 or 5 point run of the mill raggy when I shot him. Had looked over 100 or so elk that morning, and as my partners started putting elk down, I knew my next couple of days were going to be spent packing instead of hunting, so I "settled" on him, even though I told myself I wouldn't shoot anything less than a four year old before the shooting started. His frame is a basic 5 point, with two extras on each side.
Here's an otherwise very similar 5 point raggy with nearly identical mass at the base, but doesn't carry it as far up:


Another two year old, with fewer points, from New Mexico, similar mass at the base, similar spindliness up high compared to the last one:


This bull, is probably a 3 year old, from Montana, and is considerably heavier, though still just a 5 point:


Compare to a 4 old 6 point, which still doesn't have particularly long main beams, but is much more massive in antler, probably twice the diameter of those first two bulls, and step up from the last one. Body size is much greater too:


That little 7 point next to the bigger 6 point:

the 6 point in comparison to some 140 and 150 inch whitetails on top of the shelf:
[img]http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp5/richman_mark/Trophies.jpg[/img]

Once again, probably a 4 year old. Note the shortness of the main beams, but much heavier antlers and longer tines until you get the 5th point:

Probably a 5 year old bull. Huge body, much longer 4ths, but still short 5ths.

Could be a 5 year old, good 5ths, fair mass, similar to that 4 year old that I killed:

Probably a 3 year old, note short overall main beams, short tines but decent mass:

Remember, I'm just guessing here, if someone thinks I'm wrong, feel free to jump in.

Probably a 4 year old:


Finally found a better pic of that 3 year old Montana 5 point of mine:

4 year old 6 point:

Dunno, but probably 7 or 8. Significantly longer tines:

Probably 10 plus year old bull here. Note good mass, but declining tine length:

Maybe another 4 year old with the typically short 5ths:

Those two little raggies next to the 4 year old again:
[img]http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp5/richman_mark/P1040536.jpg[/img]
Could be 7:
[img]http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp5/richman_mark/IMG_1178-1-1.jpg[/img]
Could be 6, but might only b 5:
[img]http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp5/richman_mark/Colorado-doug-elk018-1-1.jpg[/img]

Thank Ex.. Great Pics All.

In the first post response, the pic with the little 7 INSIDE the bigger 6 SAYS ALOT...put things in perspective.

From original pic of 'little 7', I could see he had a small body, but the mass looked LARGER on his SMALL body.

I've really enjoyed your pics of the past in other threads TOOOO.

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it very much.

Jerry

6 or 7 maybe:

Probably 6 or 7 here too:

No prob. Like I said these are just guesses, but yeah, when you see a 2 year old next to a 3 and then 4 year old, the significant jumps in antler development are much more obvious

How old would you all say this bull was? 3 years old?

Really hard to say as he's kind of atypical, but that huge left 4th suggests he might be older. Looks like a big head too. Large bodied?

Yeah, I think so. He is the first non-spike bull I've ever been next to though also. So I don't have anything to compare it to besides 1 cow and 1 spike.

Obviously, the positioning of this picture makes his body look bigger than it is though.

Still a tough angle, but I'm pretty sure that bull is over 3 years old. Just a guess, open to anyone else's opinion

nice pics and commentary Exbio. But man, some horrific injuries to a couple of those hunters, eh? Their faces are horribly disfigured, I am so glad they can still hunt!

I had this bull(above)aged after I killed him three months after I took these pictures....he was 9 1/2 years old. I have his shed antlers from the year before.



This bull I guided in 2007, was aged at 8 1/2 years old....My opinion is for a bull elk to reach maximun growth, they need to be at least this age. Of course, genetics, habitat and range condition all play a part, but age is the number one factor.

Haha yeah, that's my buddy's uncle who is a CEO of a significant hunting equipment company, and since I haven't seen those pictures on their website, I'm not gonna be the one to show his face.

Most of the 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old bulls I see killed are 5pts. Amazing how you guys can tell a 6 or 7 year old bull just standing there in the meadow. Those Colorado bulls must be real predictable.

I have seen bulls as young as 5 1/2 years old reach 375" here in AZ and I have seen a 13 year old bull that was 380+. A lot of it depends on if they still have any molars left at that age.

I have never killed a 5 pt myself but I have killed and been in on a lot of spike kills. Most of the spikes we killed weighed 220-240# and that is the full quarters only which included the rib cages and some neck meat. I never weighed a 6x6 myself. They were never whole when I got them out!

In later years, we boned them all so I don't know what they weighed or bigger ones for that matter. My son killed a big dry cow that the total carcass weight with feet cut off and head cut off was 450#.

A buddy killed a 300" bull in AZ that was weighed at a check station by a guy working on his grad degree. His bull weighed 970# and was 300# bigger than the next biggest bull. He asked the biologist why it was this way and he told him "for the same reason you are 6'4" 250# and I have 5'7".

Good answer to me!

Who aged them?


Casey

The unit biologist.

Some elk are what they are and just don't get really big high scoring racks. I killed the bull pictured below and he would likely never be anything more than a 5x5 with big whale tales. This gene is fairly common in the area and I LOVE big 5x5's. He is a 4.5 year old about 280 B.C. I saw his big brother and he would easily go 330 and was also a 5x5. He had the same rack, but with MUCH longer points and unbelievable mass.


I have shot several arks full of 2 year old bulls. Some are really crappy looking 3x3's and 4x4's, but a couple are really symmetrical 5x5's. "Most" 2 year old bulls that I have watched grow or have killed remain 5x5's from year 2 through year 3. The 4th year, they "generally" get a small 6th point. Again, this is general in the areas around my home. The 5th year they are pretty good looking symmetrical 6 points and start to put on some good mass.

I have a couple of elk farms near my home. It is very educational to watch and study how bulls change/grow with age in a controlled environment. Some are amazing, but others aren't, even though they have the same feed, minerals, water and age. They simply have different genes. There just aren't any absolutes saying that an elk of a certain age will score "X" and have "Y" points. Age is definitely a big factor, but is only part of the puzzle.

I agree with Scenarshooter on this one...and most any biologist worth their salt will agree.

For bulls to reach their maximum growth potential they have to be 8 years and older.

I also think there are very few bulls that "regress" with age. I think some kind of reach a point then dont grow much more. I picked 3 years worth of sheds from a Montana bull that was 330 as a 7 year old bull, about 340 at 8, about 340 at 9...and was killed when he was 10 and scored just a pinch over 340 gross. Tine lengths didnt change much from 7-10 years old on that bull, mass wasnt much different between 8-10 either.