Looking for advice. I've hunted the Gravelly Range, mostly around the Black Butte area a few times with some success. Lately, it has been over run with quads, and wolves. I hunt with a group of 3 other guys, all in good shape and able to hike / pack an elk, lets say, 5-10 miles a day. I'm thinking of trying either the Crazies, or Little Belts. I'm sure both get pressured as well. I would also entertain going back to the gravellys if someone could point me into a better non motorized area. I have maps and will be doing my own research, just looking for comparisons as to what I may find.
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The Gravely's are worked hard.

I've hunted the Gravelly range and the Little Belts and would be hard pressed to tell you there are fewer quads in the Belts. Probably fewer wolves though, then again, there are fewer elk too.

The Little Belts are overrun with 4 wheelers and dirt bikes. Absolutely no enforcement of USFS regulations in re: to ATVs on horse trails and closed roads. My camp was robbed while I was gone one day in the Little Belts also. Not my first choice for an elk hunting spot. Without doubt the least enjoyable place in MT that I've hunted.

Granted the Gravelly Range does experience a lot of hunting pressure the first week of the rifle season, but after that the vast majority of hunters go home to never return.

Hunting opening day (if you can stand the number of hunters in the field) does have its advantages and disadvantages. It does move the elk around the whole day. I have been fortunate enough to shoot two bulls in the last three years in the Gravallys and I just walk into an area and hunted it. If it doesn't work opening day, you can go back into it becasue there is a good chance the elk may have been "pushed/pressured" into the area overnite.

Wolves were spotted (again) around Black Butte this last season (2012), so they are back and their impact will be felt. But, now we can hunt them, as well. Two or three years ago the Feds killed the entire pack in the Gravallys, because they were killing livestock (sheep) and they were absent for a couple of years. IMO, it is just a matter of time before the wolves kill livestock again and when they do . . . they will be "removed" of the Feds. But, hopefully now that hunters can help manage the population this will help matters.

The Little Belts does have it share of ATV users, some law abiding and some that are not. The Little Belts have ATV designated trails. It is a good place to go ride your ATV. I'm not an advid ATV rider, but it is nice to have designated trails.

Thanks for the info fellas. I was hoping that the little belts would be a better choice as I am planning on the deer combo tag and from what I see, they have a better deer population. I wouldnt mind hunting the Gravellys again, especially with a wolf tag in my pocket...

For those who have hunted the Gravellys: Do you think the elk get pushed primarily onto private land when pressured or just head to the dark timber within the range?

Having a wolf tag should be mandatory for all hunters, (my opinion).
I live at the base of the Gravelly's (for 20+ years) and it has changed over time.

The advent of ATV's and Wolves has had effect.
During Archery, ATV's are everywhere scouting/hunting animals.
It tends to force the elk to the hayfields, (no pressure).

The GR is still a large piece of ground and there are some pockets that can be alot of fun.

Cottonwood Creek is a nice area too, (south of the Ruby res.)

Also remember there are a fair number of Grizzlies in the Gravally's. There have been a number of bowhunters mauled by G. Bears the last several years. So, be "Bear Aware".

That's the truth about Griz.
The West Fork and Standard Creek area was hard on Bow Hunters.

It has been written here many times, if you hike a mile from the road/trail you can usually find some elky spots.

Last year the Federal Trapper was busy 'controlling' problems in the GR...and that's good.

shot ya a pm

So when you apply In my do you apply for the region like 3 or down to the county number

Still waiting on a reply from MT F&W, but Im almost set on the Crazies, terrain doesn't look to bad (compared to the Selway), Elk numbers look good, hunter numbers dont look to bad for those willing to put in some leg work.

Are you looking a Guided or DIY hunt?

The east side of the Crazies has very limited public access (only Big Timber Cr Canyon, and it's very steep), and I believe all elk tags are only available through a drawing.

There is one public access point on the south side of the Crazies, and 3 on the west side. All the trails in the Crazies are foot and horse travel only during hunting seasons.

Most of the canyons in the Crazies have very steep sideslopes. The North end of the Crazies is more gentle, but I don't know anything about the portion of it on the Lewis and Clark Forest.

In the NW corner of the Crazies, there is pretty good access in the upper shields river area from the Shields loop road, but there aren't many maintained trails. Most of that country isn't overly steep.

I haven't hunted the Crazies in many years, but there used to be some pretty good bulls there.

DIY, Im used to steep, used to hunt the selway in Idaho, nothing like climbing 3500' and only going a horizontal half mile ugh!. Looking at both sides, all depends on what my hunting buddies want to do.

"All the trails in the Crazies are foot and horse travel only during hunting seasons" is that including archery season?

My guess would be yes, they are closed. You would have to check the current Gallatin NF Travel maps. Mine are from 2003 and they show the trails as closed. It is rare that the Forest Service removes restrictions from roads or trails.

NO.

So, as this forum has shifted to the Crazies, would it be safe to assume that this would be a better place to focus our efforts?

I can tell you that with wolves, cats, bears, and urban infringement on what we had left of winter range, NW Montana sure as hell isn't your huckleberry.

That's my neighborhood, and I'll be hunting with my brother over in The Breaks (arhcery) if I draw a permission.

My bow season efforts this year (besides Breaks if I draw) will be focused on antelope and treestands for deer.

I've pretty much decided Elk around here is an epic waste of my time, except for the backpacking and camping.

I hunt the crazies for elk. I've scored 2 out of the last 3 seasons..

You will find a lot less competition during archery, but the critters are pretty smart and have learned what to do to stay alive.

The more open areas will have a lot of pressure during rifle, and if you scout a head of time, can use the pressure to move elk into your position.

The thicker, north facing drain ages will hold elk, for a reason, but you can pretty much forget spot and stalk in these areas. You will find less pressure, because its pretty thick and nasty with lots of blowdowns, but the wind needs to be perfect to get into the feeding, bedding and wallows. You can spend hours still hunting into a hot spot and blow all the elk out of the drainage with one swirl of the wind or shift in direction.

If you're bow hunting these north facing drainages, forget calling. Don't even try it, you'll blow the elk out and just call in some other dopes.

There are a few places in the Little Belts you can hike into to get away from people, but if it is any where near a road it can be like downtown Great Falls.

Man, that sucks.

I've only camped down there in the summer. Kids love it.


Travis

That sounds really similar to the breaks, constand wind shifts as well as super high pressured elk!

No joke...

I'd rather hunt pressured Elk in Montana's hot spots than spend a bunch of time camping with my bow closer to home.

I'm going to direct this question to those who have hunted the Little Belts. If I go into one of the non motorized / less accesible areas, and spend 7 days hunting hard, what can I expect? I can easily get 5 miles or better from any access points.

I realize nowhere is a slam dunk on public land, but for myself and the couple guys I hunt with, all married and have kids, out of state elk hunts represent not only a significant financial investment, but also an opportunity to provide for the families; which is why I have become so adamant about researching the best probable areas. We also dont mind the peace and quite of no cell phone service and the glow of a stove lit outfitter tent...

I am open to any and all suggestions.

I wish I still had the picture of a lady who shot a monster bull in the Little Belts last season. Her husband went walking looking for elk while she stayed at the pick-up. Out walks this huge 6pt which she quickly dumps. There are big elk there, but not a lot. If you can get away from the roads (every one says at least 1 mile, but I would say double that) you should have a reasonable shot at undisturbed elk.

I am telling you this not as a great elk hunter, because I am not. This is from the results of people I know who take horses back to get their elk. The lady is an anomally, but those stories seem to happen every year. At least to other people.

Are the big belts as bad as the Little Belts as far as ATV use?

95% of the elk in the Belts are found on private land. I've seen as many as 800 head in a herd. That leaves very few on Forest Service land. As far as big bulls, when you look over 800 head during the rut and the biggest bull in there is about a 290 class, that tells you about the quality of elk in the Belts also. I go to the western part of the state now and just drive on by the Belts. They for the most part are a waste of time.

That puts things in perspective. Not having big bulls isnt the deal breaker but when the majority of the herd is on Private, thats the kicker for me.

Yeah, I don't hunt general tags and hold out for big bulls. If its legal, I shoot it. I suppose this is a side affect of only elk hunting 1 week per year / every other year and liking to eat elk meat. I can get a few miles from any road, just dont want to hike my arse off to find no elk and quads where they aren't suppose to be. 95% seemslike an awful high number given the square miles in this range, but then again, who am I to say? I've never hunted it. After 8 straight days of hiking the gravellys and not having one legitimate shot at an elk; and seeing only 1 cow at over a mile, there has to be a more productive area to try. Or, maybe I am just that unlucky.

8 days in the gravellys...I saw more wolves than elk.

The biologist estimates 4,500 head in the little belt region. This means that each percentage represents 45 elk. So, there are only 225 elk on public land in the little belts.....Given the annual harvest stats, every single elk on public land, plus a few are killed evey year.

Bullschit.

BS would be my guess too, but haven't hunted the Little Belts for a while.

Have seen enough illegal ATV's and their trails in the Big Belts to know there should be a season on 'em.

Don't get me wrong, private land is a safer bet.

I worked in the Little Belts for several summers and have friends that shoot public land bulls out of there every year. I am confident in saying that if a guy is willing to work, and drop off into some hellholes, the elk are there.

I would also like to see open season on ATVs. I'm fairly confident a 223 would work just fine on them, though a Barnes TSX might be a good idea for maximum penetration.

I hear you guys there, nothing in elk hunting, not even wolves..well,maybe wolves, is more frustrating than hiking for hours, only to hear quads roaring up the "closed" trail behind you. What I have found: guys on quads are notoriously lazy and often act like frightened baby chipmunks at the thought of getting too far from them. If there was a season on quads, I would have a lapua.

prairie goat, thanks for the advice, good to hear something positive for once.

A lot of the Little Belts is covered in roads, but plenty of it is nasty and timber choked, where the ATVs cannot play.

Always lots to learn about MT elk hunting on the internet.

Ain't that the truth...

GH-aren't you a French model...

Dober

Uh, bon jour.

No bullshit. I hunt it every year and have flown it dozens of times. Take a fly over them this weekend and you tell me where all the elk are -- and it's not even hunting season. I live next to the Belts and also go 4 wheeling in them. I'm not saying you can't kill an elk on public land -- I'm just saying you're not playing with a full deck of cards. Very few elk on the public land. So as the saying goes GFY.

Well, I am open to hunting other areas besides the belts you may care to recommend. I would question why you hunt it every year if its so worthless? Beings you've spent time flying the area, what percentage would you say is on private land vs public? Also, arent the elk still on the wintering grounds which would most likely be the lower private land?

ndhunterman Here's my advice, take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt because of a multitude of reasons. Hunters are territorial, secretive, biased and opinionated....and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

But, at some point it's best to turn off the internet and put some boots on the ground and find out for yourself. Last year I hunted MT for the first time and did just that. I took bits and pieces of info from the internet, but at the end of the day I came to the realization it was typically anecdotal and or contextual.

So I did my own homework, narrowed my choices and bought a plane ticket to find out for myself. Sticking to the fundamentals I know about elk hunting (in the grand scheme of what there is to know about elk hunting that's very little) I found elk sign immediately and was looking at elk by the end of the first day scouting.

By the time hunting season came all we heard from neighboring camps was "this is the most people I've ever seen here...grumble grumble grumble"...yet when I was hunting I never saw another soul and only heard their 4 wheelers when I was putting my elk on the meatpole and was back at camp in the middle of the day.

You said you're willing to put in the physical work, so do just that. You can drown yourself in "information" from the interwebs, but there's no substitute for boots on the ground effort.

Roger that.

I absolutely agree. I've read the montana elk hunting book cover to cover twice, have a gazetter highlighted with access routes probable areas, ect.. and have already narrowed down the first areas I am going to focus on. I was hoping to confirm some of my research. Maybe I should quit asking about hunting areas and focus on which new boots I need to break in!

Thanks to all, still managed some good info from this forum.

Get boots for the hike out, not the hike in..

Boots and time. Don't listen to the crybabies. Great elk hunting in almost every part of Montana. Have fun.