My dad and I just got drawn for our first elk hunt in WY this October, and I need some help choosing a bullet for my rifle. The rifle is a Remington 700, I've been shooting it for a year or two with Federal blue box 180-grain Power Shok bullets, which the rifle shoots very well, usually well under an inch when I do my part. Now, I would like to use a tougher bullet than that for this hunt, and was planning on using a Federal 180-grain Partition load. I bought a box to try this weekend and when I went to the range, I was getting around 2" groups with them, which I'm sure would be good enough, but I would like to do better. Any suggestions on something else I could try? I'm limited to factory loads right now, just want to see what everyone has used on elk before with success- or ones that haven't worked.

I am guessing that yr blue box feds will elk elk just fine, but I have 6 1 shot kills in a row with 180 gr nosler accubonds

My 300 Win. Likes 180 gr Nosler A/B fueled by H1000

The bullets you use are far less important than where you place them. My son-in-law uses Winchester 180g Power Points in his .300WM. They have been very accurate and chrono�d a bit faster than advertised. His first elk was at 362 yards, on the far hill about halfway between the tops of the aspens and the top of the hill itself. One shot and it was on the ground before you could say �Colorado�.




If the Fed 180g blue box loads shoot well, use them with confidence.

Your blue box ammo will do just fine. I downed two with a -06. Other still use them with great success.

Now packboard's. Get the most comfortable you can get. Cause your going to be in for a treat packing out that meat you get

I've shot several elk with 180 gr AB's in a 300 WSM. They kill to be sure but they also leave a pile of bloodshot meat on the hill. I highly recommend Partitions if you want to bring the meat home instead of trimming off a bloody mess.
I've also shot a good number of elk with Speer Hotcores. In my experience, they work as well as the Partitions.

I've had great luck with 180 TTSXs out of my 300 H&H, you should be able to find the vor-tex ammo loaded with them.

Justin:

I think the 180 grain Power Shock ammo will work just fine. So you don't really need to change anything IMHO.

However, if you want to try a factory loaded premium bullet which has good accuracy and excellent mass retention, then give the Federal Premium 180 grain Trophy Bonded Tip a try.

I've used Federal Premium 180 grain Nosler Partitions and the factory ammo is not as accurate as I had hoped. But reloaded with Nosler Partitions with Spitzer points delivers a pretty accurate load that will certainly retain lots of mass.

KC

+1... I have only killed 4 with mine, but I've never had to fire a second shot. My gun seems to like RL22 and 4831 the best.

For factory ammo, I prefer the Winchester Supreme 180gr Accubonds or the Elite XP3's. I reload my 300WM since 2005 with the 180gr AB's, but have used the factory previously and my hunting buddies that shoot 300WM with factory loads prefer the 2 listed.

Reloads with RL22 with 215 primers works great for me!

Have fun on the elk hunt with your dad !!

While not all bullets will perform the same, I used Privi Partisan 180gr to kill my 1st elk. This one:


Went diagnally thru the elk and was just under the skin near the hind quarter from 300yds. That Federal isn't any varmint load. I'd just use it. Especially since you have confidence in it's accuracy.

Incidentally, I only switched to the 180 Nosler E tip because I was using my 300win mag this year on a bison hunt that was going on at the same time as elk season. I was hunting on some federal land that "prefers" that you use non lead ammo.

Well said.

180 nosler ballistic tips are rumored to be pretty tough. They might shoot better than partitions.

No need to change a thing!!!! Practice and go get em !!!!

I use a 165 TXS out of a Kimber 300 WSM.Tried the 180 Accubond on the first elk shot with this rifle. It was too soft and took two chest shots to do the job. Switched to the 165 Barnes and the last 12 elk died on the spot. My hunting pard shoots a 300 WM with the same bullet and has the same results. Last year these rifles killed a 6x7 and a 6x6 in NM. Range was 300-360 yards, Both high shoulder shots with complete penetration and they dropped on the spot.
I shoot ttxs/tsx out of a 7-08 and 338 Win. The only other elk bullet that I shoot is the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and that's out of a 06 and a 280.I've never had either one fail even with less that perfect shot placement and each of these rifle/loads have taken elk. Most of the time those big bulls don't give you the perfect broadside shot.

"I'm limited to factory loads right now,"

The 180 gr Factory loads you are presently using will kill Elk, If you don't find a more accurate Factory load,in an equal or heavier weight, use them,and shoot for the ribs.

Don't worry about your blue box Federal ammo for elk hunting. Practice and Go and kill some elk. People way out think things.

As many of the guys have said, any 180 gr bullet out of a 300 Win Mag is effective on game. If you are set on using a Partition, a truly great bullet, factories other than Federal load the Partiton, including Nosler. They can be found online, plus occasionally Nosler sells over-runs & very good seconds, at good discounts, thru their website. Good hunting.

I too am handicapped by not reloading. I tried shooting the federal partitions in my 243 and 2 1/2" 3 shot groups was the best I could get 100yds.
Try these : http://www.hornady.com/store/300-Win-Mag-180-gr-SP/ Its a pretty tuff C&C bullet.These were very accurate in my rifle.
Another option is to try a different manufacturer that load partitions.

I wouldn't be scared of the blue box Federals. I think they are the 180 HotCore which is usually a fairly tough bullet. If it shoots well for you, keep shooting it. Plus, it'll probably save you a little more money for practicing too. Good luck. Hope you slay one!

Shoot what you have with confidence.

I'd not fret the Blue Box, or nearly any other 180 grain factory load in 300WM.

I am kinda anxious to try the 190 or 210 LR AB's though.

According to Federal's website, the 300 Win Power-Shok ammo does in fact use the 180 Hot Cor bullet.

I've potted a pile of elk with Hot Cores over 30 years, both in the 270 and 300 WSM. It's a good strong bullet and to be honest, I haven't seen much difference in results from Partitions.

+1

"I am limited to factory loads right now"

Surely within your circle of friends there must be someone who reloads that would agree to help you out with reloading the brass you have on hand.

Mine does as well. My guns seem to shoot Hornady Interbonds as well or better than the ABs.

My .300 WM likes 180 NBT's and NAB's with RL-22. Those two have the same B.C.'s and POI. I pick the one best suited to the game I'm after.

DF

Coyote Hunter,

You were very firm about using super-premium bullets for deer in a thread a year or two ago, just in case the angle was a little wrong. So why are blue box Federals OK for elk?

I'm not arguing about bullet placement versus construction, just wondering why you changed your tune.

Is anyone using 200 grain bullets? Does it over an advantage over the 180's?

I don't know if there are advantages you can measure till you know which 180 your comparing to a 200.. I tend to really like the 200's in the 300 magnums, they have the ability to run the 200's in the 2900's pretty easily and with the added BC they seem a little harder hitting further out. Now, saying that, my hunting partner is still shooting a few screw turned 180's his father acquired way back when and kills a few elk every Fall from his old 300 Win. Truly, either one is as good as another if they shoot well for you.

I have a great friend in Idaho. Runs the 300 WBY with a 180 BT and a RL22. You couldn't tell him there is a better bullet for elk. I have tried to get him to switch to a PT or AB but he just keeps tipping them over..

The 180 Ballistic Tip is one of the heavy-jacket BT's, or at least it has been for several years now. The heavy-jacket BT's act very similar to Partitions when they hit stuff, penetrating quite well.

The one I have the most experience with is the 200-grain .338, because it had the heavy jacket from the moment it appeared, over 20 years ago. Once put on into the near shoulder of a big gemsbok bull in Namibia, and the bullet broke the shoulder and spine, then went lengthwise through the body, ending up under the hide of the rump on the far side. A bull gemsbok is about the size of a cow elk.

I have heard great things about that 200BT MD. I know Nosler sells a whole lot of the uncoated 200BST's. I had real good luck with the 200 AB as well in my old 338.

One of the fella's over on Nosler ran the 180 BT's in the water jugs and recovered them at nearly point blank range in the 5th jug. Pretty comparable to a 300 RUM with a 200AB or a 7mm Mag with the 160AB.

All my bull elk have been killed with hand loads.But reports from friends who have used factory ammo is that the factory 180's work well.One pair, a father and son, shot about everything here and in Africa,and the father in India,with various 300 magnums and used only factory ammo.

Gotta figure we have ,collectively,over 100 years of 180 gr-300 magnum "experience" today on BG animals world wide. I would bet the factory ammo makers have learned what it takes to make good game bullets for the 300's.

I'd rather have my hand loads in 300 Winchester but for elk would not worry a whole lot with the choices we have in factory ammo today.

I never understood why someone would pay thousands of dollars to go on a elk hunt and then skimp on the bullet. The bullet does all the kill'n and everyone wants to go cheap.

I am poor/ cheap but after paying $600-$1000 for a elk tag, hundreds of dollars in fuel, time off, etc. I ain't worried about trying to save $50 in bullets.

I know cup and core bullets work most of the time but if a premium bullets makes the difference between a kill and a wound one time in a hunting lifetime it was worth it to me.

Dink

Same thought here. I spend alot of money in fuel, plane tickets, tags and just everything else. Using a 2.00 bullet for hunting seems like a bargain. I can shoot other bullets for practice and generally keep most everything the same once I switch over to a stouter bullet. Nosler's SPS pretty much allows me to use the same bullets for both, but I have a couple of loads when I run less expensive bullets for steel and paper then rezero and practice with the hunting bullets. A 100 premium bullets last awhile since I will probably only shoot 1-2 maybe three while hunting.

Like Mule Deer says, the 'hunting' Btip is a tough cup-core bullet.

With the 200 grain .338 bullet I have seen amazing things happen like pernt' near dividing a coyote into two two separate pieces to destroying leg bones, shoulder blades, long sections of spine and vertebra in mature elk and muleys to merely exit.

Don't dismiss plane jane cup/core bullets too easy, Even the fancy ones with colored tips... Being a good shot trumps all bullet designs.

To the OP, the ONLY time I have seen a .300 win mag 'fail' if you so choose to call it would be a fella I was elk hunting with regular factory 150 gr bullets and shot a mature cow elk right at 100 yards threw the on-side ribs. The bullet completely disintegrated inside the elk after hitting a single rib. Good thing was the vitals where disintegrated also and the cow only made it 20 yards and fell over.

Well the main issue you are going to face is finding an elk to shoot, that and getting one out once on the ground. As for Blue Box Federal that gives you 1 inch or so groups off the bench vs 2 inches with the Nosler Partition loads, dose not mean much since your rifle is minute of elk well pass ranges most would be comfortable shooting at. Get off the bench and put out targets at ranges from in real close to has far as you can go were you live. Go for that 1 shot, where you actually hit vs where you aim at. If you can keep that one bullet with in a grapefruit size area, then you are doing really good marksmanship wise and I would be thinking more about what I need to do to take care of the venison so I would have the very best table fare I can get.

What Bob H. said..

I can afford to use any bullet I want and still use the 180gr Nosler BT out of my 300 magnums. You can spend alot more money only to lose accuracy and the ability to kill quickly....

In my opinion, If you keep pushing those bullets hard they will eventually let you down. Someday you'll find yourself chasing a elk or big body deer around with a BT that just didn't get it done.

Dink

180 partition in 300 wtby was way softer than I figured it should be. JB says in the mags you run 200 partitions instead. Lots of difference evidently.

But I just moved on up to the top, to Barnes and don't worry about much anymore.

What one can afford and what one thinks about bullets and will they work in the worst case scenario, not 20 of the best case ones in a row, are totally different things.

But its always the shooters choice as to how much risk they take.

Never heard anyone say that a 180 ballistic tip was tougher than a 180 partition and hte performance i've seen from 180 partitions on Nilgai, a fairly similar size animal if not possibly tougher, with somewhat tougher hide, says I would not risk a 180 ballistic or partition.

Especially when I've had 2 deer stop 180 partitions. One with a measly neck shot into an appx 225 pound whitetail. When a neck stops a bullet it makes me VERY nervous.

Rost, I am no Partition fanboy, but the fact remains that bullet has killed millions of critters big and small. Allan Day even took a cape buffalo with a 180 partition out of a 300 win mag iirc.
I might also say your opinion on bullet performance is a bit fubar, given you get off on tracking critters..

The same could be said for any bullet. Mechanical things fail from time to time.

Sure it could. But if 180 grain BT blows up on elks shoulder joint you will be cussing yourself not choosing a better bullet. If the same thing happens with a partition or TTSX you chose the best bullet you could have.

Dink

Have you shot an elk in the shoulder joint with a 180 BT? I have and from a 300 Ultra at close range. The bullet exploded the shoulder bone and was found on the opposite side shoulder under the hide. No Barnes 100 yard dash either.

I don't doubt there are tougher 180 gr 30 cal bullets than the 180 gr NPT out there today(Banes among them),since the bullet was always designed to be "soft" in the front to expand even at low velocity and longish range. IIRC it has less bullet behind the partition than a 200 gr does,so the 200 gr in general will penetrate somewhat deeper.

I've used both from the 300 Win Mag and the 300 Weatherby. One bull, killed at 450-500 yards,caught a 180 placed on the shoulder joint;he collapsed to the shot,and the bullet was recovered against the hide just forward of the off side ham. Another at about the same distance fell to the shot with his head up...a second bullet to the neck broke it,and exited opposite the entrance.

Another at about 250 yards had two blow out the chest on pure lung shots.Sometimes you will recover a 180 Partition and sometimes you won't...seems to depend on impact velocity and what you hit.

I have been on site when a medium sized brown bear was killed with a 300 Weatherby and 180 NPT,and he was a pretty dead bear...like "right now".

I have driven the 200 gr NPT from just forward of the haunch all the way to the off shoulder, breaking it,and exiting....that seems like a lot of penetration for an expanding bullet.

A pal showed me a pair of 200 gr AB's fired from a 300 Weatherby at 350 yards,and started at almost 3100 fps,recovered from a bull elk from last fall,with hits similar to what I have done with a 200 gr NPT...they had good frontal area,which I guess helped stop them, but with similar hits, I have never seen a recovered 200 gr Nosler Partition.

Based on what I have seen,I would use the 180 or 200 gr NPT on any elk hunt, anywhere without a thought to which was better....not suggesting they are "best" but IME they are thoroughly reliable game killers.

I try to pay attention to some of these penetration tests shot into media, and published here and there....one thing I notice is that Barnes and Partitions generally lead the pack for depth of penetration,or at least are at the top of the heap for expanding bullets.

On thing to keep in mind when it comes to 300 Win Mag factory loads is that not all of it will break 3000 fps from a 24" barrel with a 180 gr....this is fast but not up to full potential and not in the 300 Weatherby/RUM class ;generally I think the bullets will take those speeds and behave pretty well at the distances most of us shoot animals.

Never used a Barnes on an animal...my supply of other bullets is too deep and I may not get to them any time soon,so can't supply a head to head comparison.

So when you get about 12 inches of penetration on a Nilgai with it, and a 150ish pound whitetail can stop the bullet.... and a 225 pound ones neck can stop it, its the bullet you'd rely on in any circumstance?

I believe that says all it needs to say.

But I could care less what anyone else really uses, just like to point out what i've actually seen in bullet performance.

And yes I enjoy the trail and I"m not that lazy or worried if I have to trail one. And I can DRT one any day of the week if I really have the need to. Even with those horrible old Barnes bullets.

This one I can agree with totally. You'll never find anything 100%. Barnes has been for me so far , from about the 90s sometime IIRC< well before the TSX came out. But sooner or later...

What I have learned is some partitions are not as tough as I'd expected so be careful there.
Not all ballistic tips are like the original ones that came out that scared me with how much like a HP they were.
That Sierra game kings might be the most variable performance out there.
And that since I found barnes, and bonded came to life after that, I've found no reason to even try bonded bullets.

Frankly, for probably 90% of shots about any old bullet will do. But I've always been of the motto of be prepared, so I carry a bullet for the other 10% if I can, and that happens to work fine for the original 90% too generally speaking.

I don't see scrimping on glass, what you can't see, you can't shoot, and I don't see scrimping on the bullet itself. The rest of it can be mediocre most of the time and never have an issue with its performance.

Jeff

This is very true. The problem with it - of course- is that it is neither a rule nor do the animals or nature play by the rules even if it was. Those blue-box (or the old red) always seemed to shoot so well and work just fine mostly and will any elk on the planet if they wreck the right stuff. The femur or other stout structure isn't a "right stuff" kind of thing though and all it takes is a simple twitch or breath of air and the bullet can be entering through such spot in spite of your best effort at correct placement. Many or most situations may not make that a concern.

The bottom line is that killing big game is not the same as shooting gophers. Minute of elk and minute of gopher are two different things. Field groups and target groups are two different things when all the factors are considered. I'd grab the Partitions over those blue-box better-shooting bullets since neither is an elk-missing load and the Partition is a better bone swatter.

In the last several years I have started using some Barnes bullets. In my somewhat limited experience they shoot very well in my guns and they have killed everything I have ever pointed at with them. However, with that being said! I have been in Hunting camps all over North America. From Northern Alberta to Southern Mexico, I have paid very close attention to what the guys who do this for a living shoot and it has been my experience that the Nosler Partition is miles ahead of any other bullet and probably followed by the Hornady Interlock!

I am always amazed and amused when I travel West or North to hunt. I expect to see all of the exotic rifles, wildcat cartridges, Hubble telescopes etc. but once there I see the outfitter with his trusty old 06, 180 Nosler or Hornady bullets and either a fixed or 3x9 variable of some flavor.

Truthfully, not much has changed in the actual art of HUNTING!

You shot a deer a several years ago with the Barnes TSX that ran farther that you thought he should have.

This is the picture that you posted of the heart and lungs from that deer.



Since you missed the heart and lungs you were lucky to have recovered that deer, yet you continue to bag on Barnes. The bullet wasn't at fault, shot placement was.

That hematoma to the right of the bullet was from the bullet dumbass.
I have since used the same load with mixed results.

Ya, that's all that needs to be said. The bullet did it job obviously and saying a bullet sucks out of one instance is the kinda BS I'm talking about.
So a hunter is lazy or doesnt know how to track if he doesnt like to see game run off after the shot? You can kill them DRT, but chose not too because you like to track? Sick bastage!

The XP3 would also be my first choice in a factory load for elk. If those didn't shoot, federal trophy bonded tips would be next. Any good bullets should be just fine, including TTSX, TSX, Partition, Accubond, Scirocco, Gmx, etc. I'd shoot whichever good bullets was most accurate out of your rifle.

No hole=no hit. Now who's the dumb azz?

The miniscule damage done by that bullet is obscured by the lung and you know it. I also at the time posted a pic of the rib cage where the diaphragm can be seen and the bullet hole is clearly well in front of it.

I have shot a good bit a game with the TSX and have seen a lot more shot with them. When lungs are hit with TSX or TTSX bullets they look like a blender went through them.
I do not see any thing that indicates they were hit and neither does anyone else.

Like I said the other pic clearly showed what I said was conpletley true and you know this.
And I am not the only one that has had problems with that particular bullet. I seen the same gun and load kill spectacularly this year and the next day not so much.

Other picture? Like I said I have killed or seen killed well over a hundred head of game with TSX or TTSX bullets and they flat out work and leave the internals looking like a blender went through them.

No one says that you have to use them, but they are very good game bullets.

The other picture I posted on that thread in question.
A FMJ will work.... Monometal bullets give up wound channel size for penetration. A look at any bullet test data that compares them to other bullets proves this. That's why many the Barnes cultist recommend lighter weight bullets and fast velocity. On top of this The TSX and earlier generation Barnes had quit a few instances of failure to expand. The TTSX was suppose to cure this, but there ave been a few documented failures to expand on this site.
I still use Barnes under certain circumstances like smaller guns and bigger critters. For 300 mags I have zero reservations in regards to using the 180 BT and have done so with great results. And by great results, I dont mean a Rost tracking party.

I've seen sierra game kings fail to expand. And supposedly that can never happen... out of fairly fast rounds ....

Anything can and will fail.

I'll invite ya to my next tracking party.

You are lucky to have recovered that deer given the shot pavement. You should be giving the bullet accolades instead of dogging them.

That 's funny! I use 180 grain TSX & TTSX in both the 300 win and the 30/06 without having any drama or long tracking jobs. Am I just lucky or what? Those that I know and hunt with must be lucky as well. I dropping an antelope in its tracks at 777 lasered yards with the 180 TSX bullet.

Can't see what they are lacking.

This says is all.

Shot through the lungs is bad placement? Welding fumes must have got to your brain.

Talk to Brad or Chuck Nelson..

You missed the lungs as the picture clearly illustrate. You simply refuse to admit it.

Your picture of the heart and lungs of the deer in question.


Not hit.

For the third time. I did indeed hit the lungs... and I posted a pic of such in the original thread, and you know this....
You just cant except that your wonder bullet didn't work worth a damn.

I know that the picture above is the one you posted in the original thread and the lungs are not hit. If Ray Charles were alive even he could see that.

Funny, you claim failure on a dead animal, just like I"ve done on a number of other bullets.

Bottom line, there is a bullet that works as best it can under abotu all situations, but if you don't want to use it and risk using another, thats fine.

And remember, if you want DRT its not bullet choice, its ALWAYS shot placement, at least if you want DRT 100% of the time.

There were two pics in that thread..

Rost, on the small deer you shoot in Texas just about anything works.. Especially from a 300 mag.

Your own words claim a hemetoma on the lung which is a bruise. No you did not hit the lungs

Denial is more than just a river in Egyt.

A hematoma around the bullet hole.. If I shot it in the guts as you suggest how do you figure the lungs had a hematoma on them... Genius.

You are right, largest I've shot is around 225 and thats rare. More like 160ish.

But I've shot some larger bodied deer in other states, and while my sample is small, I haven't seen anything much different. Whitetails seem to be the same no matter where.

I've watched over 200 plus pound bucks fall at the shot from a 223. And run a ways. I've seen teh same on deer approaching 250 -275 ish act the same from a 223. Have seen similar results with many differing calibers too.

Get the best bullet you can and put it in teh right place. If its ballistic tip, then get on with it. And I might not even say I told ya so later on .....

Of course you negate the evidence I've posted on Nilgai which in many opinions are at least as tough if not more so than elk... thats what led me away from plain bullets and to the Barnes... shooting nilgai.

Well that and the fact that our small whitetails were capable of stopping a 180 partition out of a 300 mag.

If our small deer can stop em... what would your Michigan deer do to a 180 partition or ballistic tip from a 300?

Your making the assumption that my use of BT's is new. Its not. I have used them since the first hit the market in the green and red boxes. I have never had one not work, even the early versions, which were quit soft. The latest versions are very tough. In fact, IMO they are the toughest cup and core made.
I can tell you with certainty what happens with MI deer and a 300 mag or ultra with a 180 BT placed in the vitals. DRT. Of course a core loct, or a gameking would do they same as deer are very easy to kill and a BT is overkill for deer.
FWIW I have seen deer stop a 220gr coreloct out of a 30-06. Bone was never hot either and the deer died pretty quick. Did the bullet fail? Would it be more to your liking if the bullet had shot through and the deer ran 150 yards?

Yep, I'd like it much more if it has 2 holes in case it runs.

I'm not saying you havne't had a negative experience. But I have. And on very similar game with similar bullets.

I started with the first ever BTs we could get out of my BILs' 270. 130s. EXTREMELY destructive and at the time we were shooitng does that might have been 80 pounds on a cull deal on some ranches that were way overpopulated.
That was enough for me. JB has told me since then they have changed some of the jacket thicknesses and so on and thats good. If I were to lean to a BT in the future in a fast round, it certainly would be bonded at a minimum.

And I run a varmint BT 80 out of my 243 for deer right now. It works really well. But its only running maybe 1600 or so FPS. Nice and quiet and works well due to the reduced speed.

IMHO your time is coming. Thats what folks are trying to help you with.

But its your choice by far.

Like I said I hunt with cup and core. I simply have to limit my shot choices at times. Fine with me when I choose to go that route. But if I"m going to drive... lets say from MI to CO to hunt elk, time off, cost of tag, fuel, lodgind possibly, maybe a guide and so on.. See where I'm coming from?

If elk were in my back yard like deer, I'd bowhunt em.

Deer... they are in my backyard. I often bowhunt and have to pass up iffy shots. Same when I hunt with my 32-20. Same with the pistols. And so on.

But if I"m going long distance after a once a year or even less game, like elk would be to me and probably you since a drive from MI ain't short either, then sometimes I want to be prepared.

OTOH I hunt moose in AK in the falls. And fly up there and so on. And often choose a 30=30 or MZ and it limits me. Sometimes severely. To where I don't harvest something that had I been properly armed, I'd have taken.

So bottom line you can use about what you want to but a lot depends on the situation.

If you think the 180 bt out of a 300 mag, is the end all do all and the by far safest choice for any shot angle or choice, I'll just continue to dis agree with you.

Wish ya the best on the hunts, you are batting 100% now and I wish you the best that will continue!

Regards, Jeff

What you are doing is rating bullets on your own "wish list" of bullet performance. The problem critters die from destroyed tissue and the resulting drop in blood pressure, not perfect mushrooms or two holes. Fine by me if that's what your into. I am into killing critters and right now.
Then you denigrate a bullet with a 60+ year track record as one of the best and most reliable game killers made. This speaks volumes.

So, The OP is "limited to Factory loads right now" I'd bet He's felt really left out for about the last 6 pages of this thread !

Are there not factory loaded BT's, Tsx, TTSX, Accubonds, partitions and other cup/core bullets available for the 300 win mag?

Dink

I posted your picture of the lungs in question and there is simply no hole in them get a flicking grip and admit that your shot missed the lungs.


I shot this deer and I also missed the heart and lungs. They were not damaged.


Bullet entrance



Exit




Deer ran, but was easily recovered. I admit that because the deer was angled more than I thought I placed the shot incorrectly to hit the heart and/or lungs. I realized my error when I dressed out the deer. You should admit your error.

Fairly sure you can find all the above in factory... you could at one point in 300 wtby for sure....

Bwalker

Which one has a 60 year history, simply curious. Partition? I"ll tell you, why don't you just ask JB, he'll tell you a 200 is fine, but a 180 is frangible. Just how it goes. Run a 200 partition, in a 300 mag and I'd be fine. But like I said, I found something that makes me even happier than that.

I"ll continue to strive for 2 holes and no risk.

But if I ever knew that a bullet could make it FOR SURE through any angle, bones and any distance shot at, and expend all its energy inside the animal, I could probably forgo the 2nd hole, though it always makes for better blood trail.

No dog in this fight, but my elk hunting partner has been using a Post 64 300 Win Mag since 65 I think. He has used the same load of 4350 and 180 PT's to take alot of elk since then, hunting between Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon and Washington since then. This past Fall after getting back to camp, he pulled an old pill bottle out of one of the drawers and showed me about 7 PT's he and his father recovered (father shot a 300WBY) from elk. I have no idea the number of elk taken since 65, but is alot and to only recover 7 is pretty good stuff. Every one of the bullets looked almost perfect, probably better than a water jug recovered PT. In his records, all elk were taken between 30 and 570 yards. Most all of them blow right on thru and leave a dead elk in their wake. I never doubted the 180 PT in a 300 Win, but after seeing and thinking about that, it really does lend itself to being a hard to beat combo.

I realize weird things happen out in the hunting fields every Fall, but I would bet a 180 PT stopping inside a deer is the exception and not the rule.

As for the OP, hopefully he has found a load to try out of his rifle. Plenty of great options with the Federal, Winchester, etc. Most all of them should be more than capable of handling elk..

Elk killing threads are always entertaining.

To the OP, Go enjoy your hunt with the blue box shells, with the .300 win mag. and 180 gr. bullets being almost the benchmark for elk hunting , you will be fine. Most people would be surprised at how many of the locals here kill elk with .243 and 25-06 factory loaded cup and core bullets. Not to mention .270s with 130s....................

Yeah good point! That doesn't sound too "limiting" to me.

Im sure stopping in a deer is an exception. Except I"ve yet to stop a barnes bullet in anything that I can recall.

I"m the motto of be prepared. If my once in a lifetime elk comes out quartering hard and about to leave... I want to make sure I can break the front bones, and get to the vitals and all the way through them. Cup and core have failed enough on things smaller than an elk and on some nilgai that for me it just makes sense, when the mono has never been retained, why risk anything else.

Cost certianly isn't a factor and Partitions ain't cheap either. But in teh scheme of things any thing is cheap bullet wise.

About to delve off into subsonic with a 300 whisper on deer and pigs. Pre frag bullets ain't cheap, order of a buck each. But they'll always open even at slow speeds. Who cares about a dollar a piece. I've seen 22lr offered for a dollar a shell too... not that anyone would pay that... but point is cost should never be a consideration. Beyond that I fail to see the down of using a mono bullet and if you need DRT, then just break the bones like some folks do.

180g Nosler Partitions in 300 WM is failsafe IMHO. I have used that bullet to make one shot kills on everything from cow/bull elk to large black bear, mule deer, feral hogs, sheep, etc. at ranges from 20 feet to 300+ yards. Penetration is great, weight retention is great and they knock the snot out of big game animals. My experience outside of that bullet is limited as I've NEVER had a reason to try anything else except a box or two of factory fodder when I did not or could not get my Nosler Partitions� but those killed just as well. Make a good first shot and it likely won't matter.

Foxx...

The only problem is thats not what happened at all. The deer was double lunged..

The front half of the partition was designed to be frangible because that leads to quick kills without the Barnes sprint. The flat work and are one of the deepest penetrating bullets made.

If I had to shoot an animal in the azz I wold go for breaking its pelvic girdle to set myself up for a follow up shot. Shooting for the front end from the rear end is pretty dicey for alot of reasons.Of course I might just hold off the trigger rather than took a crap shoot of a shot.

No your deer was not double lunged, your own picture of the lungs proves you miissed the lungs. Geez.

Yes, it was.

Your picture of the heart and lungs of the deer in question.



There is no double lung shot and that is the picture that you took

There absolutley was.

Your picture of the heart and lungs of the deer in question.

The only piece of relevant info one can derive from this picture - IMO anyway- is that the ribcage was compromised seriously enough, either through a large hole in the ribs, or through the diaphragm, or both. This caused the lungs to lose the ability to re-inflate. (A hole through the lungs does not usually cause them to deflate in their entirety unless the damage is massive.) The animal in question might easily have been double lunged but it was inability to re-inflate those lungs that caused it to die most likely. IOW it suffocated.

I agree with you except for the double lung part high velocity rifle bullet take a huge toll on lung tissue. I have seen way more damage to lung tissue from a 200 grain 45 ACP bullet that impacted at 50 yards plus or minus.

Here is my advice/opinion so take for what it is worth:

I will use the analogy of cooking as akin to harvesting Elk.
There is no doubt a Winchester 300 sporting a 180 grain hunting bullet is plenty of Stove, burner and frying pan to "cook' an elk.

To paraphrase Justin Wilson when he was asked what kind of wine should I cook with? He simply stated "Cook with the wine you like".

So it is most important to shoot what you and your rifle likes! If you are gonna shoot your 300 win Mag a lot to find out what you like.... I would suggest you buy a PAST shoulder pad to cushion the recoil and help prevent flinching!

I never mentioned an azz shot. But then again if you don't have the round and bullet that can make it from the flank, out a front shoulder, IMHO you have to be really picky about shots, or pass shots.

Passing is often the best choice if you aren't prepared.

But even in my mind, if you try a correct shot and bugger it a bit, for whatever reason, animal moves you misplace the shot, and as far as I can tell we've all BTDT, then if the next shot you get, is up the azz or none at all... I can tell you what I'm going to do, and I can tell you the outcome. And the outcome won't stop at the pelvic girdle at all...

I've run SLOW 6mm TSX over 200 yards away into the chest of a couple of 140ish pound deer and have them exit the hams. Gives me the confidence that in case of a bad situtaion, I've enough "horsepower"

I have seen the result of a 45 acp on deer, but I have seen what a 32 special does to deer. It does much more damage than this 100gr Barnes TSX did, hence my disappointment.
You can call me a liar all you want, but I swear on the bible that deer was double lunged.

I have never had to shoot an animal in the ass. Never.
If you place your bullet properly and use one that kills quickly, pumping shots into the south end of a north bound animal isn't required.
Funny you mention 6mm's. My dad owned a game ranch when I was in high school. We had a 100 head heard of Fallow deer get liver flukes that required them to be culled. I shot almost the entire lot with a 243 and a 25-06 using cheap cup and cores in 243 and a mix of 100gr bt and cheap cup and cores in the 25-06. Never had a one run off any distance and most dropped on the spot. Quartering shots included as at the end the last bunch got quit smart and there was no time to fart around lining up a shot. I also shot quite a few Russian boar's with the same cheap bullets out of the 243. I wasnt aware of bullet types back then and just shot what my dad and I loaded.

One vote for a 210 VLD.

The poster I was responding to apparently doesn't handload and has been shooting the Federal blue box 180's "a year or two" with groups "usually well under an inch". With Federal Partitions he was getting "around 2" groups". Not a lot of difference but perhaps enough to change the outcome at extended ranges. I've always agreed that standard bullets will suffice the majority of the time and have stated on multiple occasions that premium bullets become less important as bullet weight increases or velocity decreases and that the most important factor is placement. The Federal blue box (Power-Shok) 180g ammo, which I consider fairly heavy, is listed at 2700fps - not exactly a speed demon. It is heavy enough and slow enough I wouldn't worry much about the bullets coming apart at normal ranges. If the poster does his job the 180g blue box ammo will likely work quite well.

For myself, I'll continue to use the premiums. This year I'll be taking the Ruger American .30-06 Dad gave me last year. What it will get loaded with is still to be determined. I had thought about using the 165g Federal Premium Sierra GameKings because he gave me 4 boxes with the rifle. After shooting one into water jugs last weekend, they are no longer in consideration. Dad also gave me a single box of Federal Premium 165g Trophy Bonded Tip loads and while they are a definite possibility, I don't intend to purchase any more so practice opportunities with them will be very limited - the primary reason I was considering the GameKings. Because the Ruger American is short throated I can't use my normal .30-06 loads. Instead I have three development loads sitting on the shelf, ready to take to the range. They consist of 150g Ballistic Tip, 168g TTSX and 180g Ballistic Tip. If the Ballistic Tip bullets work they will get replaced with AccuBonds far enough in advance of the hunt to get some range time in with them and verify they shoot the same as the Ballistic Tips (which has been my experience so far).

Also, deer are primarily targets of opportunity, to be taken when doing so doesn't interfere with my elk hunting or helping others in my party get their elk. As a result I use the same loads for both species and have found that my elk loads work very well on deer. I see no reason whatsoever to have two separate loads. Nor do I see any downside to using the premiums on deer. A few years back I drove a 140g North Fork SS from the right ham of a buck through to the sternum, where it was recovered. A standard cup-and core bullet might have made it that far but I wouldn't count in it. No deer or elk has stopped a Barnes MRX/TTSX for anyone in my party, regardless of range, and no premium bullet we've used has flown to flinders as I've seen cup-and-core bullets do.

The last time I hunted and killed game with a standard cup-and-core bullet in a bolt gun was also my first. For the next 20 years my choice was Speer Grand Slams, which performed very well in every case. These days I use mostly North Fork, Barnes MRX/TTSX, Nosler AccuBond, and, in one rifle, Swift Scirocco II. The only cup-and-core bullets I've hunted with since the early 80's are in my handguns and lever-guns, where cup-and-core construction works just fine. Even some of the levers get premiums (Partition RN in the .30-30 and North Fork in the .45-70).

Changed my tune? I don't think so.