going Muzzle Loader Elk hunting in NM. First time Hunting Elk and fairly inexperienced in ML hunting. I would like to know yalls suggestions on best bullet to use.

Thanks in advance

i've used the 348gr powerbelt with great success for over 10 years. gonna use the same bullet in sept for my guided hunt in colorado this year.

290 GR Barnes TMZ has worked well for us.

What rifle are you shooting, and what twist rate? Do you have a load that shoots well?

There are a lot of answers to this. If you are loading for a magnum where you are using 130-150 gr, then you need a premium bullet. Something like a Powerbelt Platnum.

If you are in the 100 gr range of powder, several bullets will fit your need. If one of the older Hawkin style, then a 370 gr maxiball, but they usually don't shoot well in modern inlines.

If an inline, then I'd choose a 348 gr Powerbelt, or a similar weight in a Hornady bullet. Unless you are a shoulder shooter, there is no need for a Barnes bullet. I have used a 295 gr Powerbelt ( Aerotip or hollow point)for years with complete satisfaction but I am stepping up to a 348 gr hollow point this coming year. There are a lot of variation in price. So you just need to pick one you are satisfied with

You will get replies that Powerbelts blow up or come apart, but most of those complaints come from guys who over drive them velocity wise.

Although bullet placement is paramount with any firearm and elk hunting, with muzzleloader hunting it is more so and just about any heavy bullet will do the job, contrary to what most advise. It's what shoots most accurately in your rifle.

Or guys who've never shot an elk with one............

The 348 is what I've used without problems but if I was to hunt in a state that allowed sabots I think I'd be looking at a premium bullet in the 300-grain range.

sorry forgot to post that I will be using a TC Encore .50

I am VERY new to Muzzle Loader hunting as well.

I haven't started load devlopment yet but I have some .458 sabot's for my CVA powerbolt (1/27 twist) and will try the RCBS 458-300 FN & HP and 500 gr. cast Hp's w/100 gr MOL of holy black and musket caps first. Bet that the 500s and 100 gr kick!, I'll probably start w/70 or so first though.-Muddy

348 Powerbelt Aerotip, 80-90 grains of BH-209 powder, and a regular WInchester 209 primer have shot well in 2 Encores and a T/C Triumph for me.

A round ball from a .50 on up,works fine for me..

A few years back, I decided to start hunting elk with a muzzleloader.
My goal was to expand my elk hunting opportunities, and the muzzleloader was a means to the end.
I researched this question a bit, and talked to several experienced elk hunters who use muzzleloaders.
Each one of them told me the same thing.

BARNS, don�t waste you time with anything else.

They are not cheap, but compared to the price of an out of state elk tag, a weeks vacation and a one thousand mile road trip, quality bullets are not even a drop in the bucket, and they work.
Accurate, great expansion and complete penetration.


You can argue back and forth about Power Belts, Great plains bullets, Shockwaves or Minis. Too much powder for this bullet, not enough for that one. This bullet does not shoot good in one gun, that bullet in another, but have you ever heard anyone say anything bad about Barns ?

Just post what your load was behind that Barnes before touting it as a God send and exactly how many elk you have personally killed with it.

I don't know what elk hunting experts or such you talked to, but I have 40 + years under my belt hunting elk, with 40+ kills,about 25% of them with a front stuffer, and you don't need a Barnes super duper bullet. I was killing elk with plain old 370 gr maxiballs before most even decided to hunt elk with a ML. The same as quite a few on this forum have done.

Put any plain pure lead bullet where it is suppose to go and the elk fall over.

Out of 6 bulls this is the only one I've been able to catch. Is it needed? No, but neither is a 30/06 and 200 GR anything, or half of what people use. They have shot very well out of every ML I've tried them in.

The toughest bullet listed so far is the Barnes TMZ. And since you are shooting a gun designed to shoot sabots and since NM allows sabots, I would recommend trying that first.

It also may be your best choice at longer distances. Flatter shooting than bigger bullets but heavy enough to take down an elk. And since you can use a scope, you will want something that is good out to 200 yards. Again, that bullet would do the job nicely.

BH 209 is the way to go IMO and your gun will shoot it. Anything in the 90-110 gr range of powder will be adequate

Thor bullet
BH 209. Powder
209 mag primer

Saddle: His gun may not shoot "plain old 370 grai maxiballs" or any other pure lead conical because of its QLA. Probably will do OK with powerbelts, but not flat based lead bullets. It might, but he is new and short timin so I wouldn't waste my time with them. Especially because the super duper banes is not that much more expensive than powerbelts or even maxiballs. In the future, he might be someone who goes out and shoot a lot, but for this year, probably won't happen, so the cost difference in bullets will be negligible.

So in my mind, his choices come down to barnes, powerbelts or Hornaday FPB. When I finally get my tag for Utah, I plan on giving barnes a try. Nope, never shot one, and in fact never shot a sabot, but they sure have a good reputation.

That said, I am going to be using a 460 gr pure lead bullshop bullet on elk this fall! That will put them down for sure! But those bullets gave me a 5 inch group at 25 yards with my Omega (basically the same barrel he is using)

^^This^^. I run them at 1800 +\- FPS and they are well within Barnes' window at 200 +.

Check out No Excuses in Utah. He will guarantee you like em. Thumps Elk Real nice. Phone # 801 776 1418 Better getcha some.

TX. My only beef was Anaconda's post where he made it sound like the Barnes was the only one that worked and all others were trash. No, his modern inline, if that is what he is using, probably won't shoot maxiballs. Wrong twist. But any of the others that several have mentioned would all work just as well

May not shoot these bullets well. My Omega shot No Excuse bulle 8 inch groups at 25 yards with some going through the target sideways. Sent it back to T/C and they said the barrel was fine, and that I should shoot sabots. It was the QLA (false muzzle) that kicked the bullets sideways because on many other their QLA guns, the bore and the QLA are cut on different centers.

BUT, if legal, the barnes give an extra margin of error.

Since we were hunting in CO and I didn't care for powerbelts and sabots were not allowed, I went to No Excuses big slugs in the 54. But in fairness have never shot an elk with them.

But don't discount folks that have seen the light with Barnes before, and have seen that they will keep going when others fail, and if thats important to you and legal, well better is not a bad thing often, just in case.

But I"m with you, put lead where it belongs and you'll do fine.

I stick with boy scout motto be prepared though if legal.

I have a QLA on an encore, I'm about ready to have the damn thing cut off. Think it was a good thought but just flat doesn't work worth a flip if not machined perfectly.

TC has a high opinion of what is good enough too... I"ve sent a couple tubes in for shooting all kinds of bullets around 4-5 inches at 100 and they send em back and say they are just fine as is. Same group sizes.... Yeah well I tossed last TC barrel I had on a hawken and green rivered it right away.. much better deal.
Green rivers on my 54 Renegade shoots 545 No Excuses at an inch at 100, with irons. Maybe a bit more on average, probably more like 1.5 inches... Thats acceptable to me.

So would a 50 BMG. We're talking velocities under 1600 fps, a big hunk of lead does just fine.

Elk threads always crack me up.

All these guys that post you have to use that bullet or this bullet only are about the same as the ones who say you must use BH209 powder.(usually the same ones) When in fact, that powder does not work well in all ML's . A person has to make sure they have the right breech plug with enclosed nipple,but no one ever says that.

Then you get the guys a who say you don't have to worry about what powder you use for the particular bullet they recommend ,but the same guys probably agonize over what powder to use for their center fire reloading.

Off Subject. I have the QLA muzzles on my TC Hawkin and Black Diamond inline.

Since they re-barreled my Hawkin the 1st time, it didn't shoot as well as the original barrel without one , but they just re-barreled it again this past spring and it shoots fine as does the Black Diamond. Certainly better with iron sights than these old eyes can.

Seems those unhappy with the QLA would have it cut off , re-crowned and the front sight moved back the same amount instead of buying a whole new barrel. A lot of these newer ML's have the front sight held on with one screw and it would probably be less than $100

You guys are way overthinking all this.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! one more piece of info my TC Encore has a Bergara 28" 1:28 right hand twist barrel

290 GR TMZ.

precision rifle's 450gr keith nose. wouldn't be much good past 175 or so but 1 elk, 1 bear and multiple deer have failed to go more than a few yards after being hit.
i put it over 90gr of 209-

forgot-also one cow buffalo that simply fell backwards onto her butt then tipped over.

One should do well on elk even if he used a 50 caliber lug nut. Find something that's accurate and go with it.

You couldn't pay me to run a Powerbelt into an elk. Pass the solid lead...

My first choise of bullets would be a Barnes or Thor bullets,providing they shoot well in your gun... My last choise,,would be,,, a power belt,,, na,,,i would rather throw a rock at an elk than shoot a powerbelt..

My factory Encore barrel shoots the Barnes TEZ (250 grain) over 110 grains (volume) bh209 with amazing accuracy and those bullets kill critters real dead. If I was using it for elk that would be my pet load but muzzleloaders shoot differently.

Last thing I'd do is a round ball in 50 cal. They are barely ok for shoulder shot deer and antelope and I won't use them now for that.

With no sabot I'm in the 348 power belt camp to stay, even for deer.

Good timing on this post, I just bought my first inline this morning.
Kinda went cheap since I'm at entry level, CVA Wolf 50.
Got a year to learn since I'm set with 2nd rifle season this one.

I'm with ya. I bought a 50 cal Omega earlier this year but haven't started to play with it yet. I have visions of elk hunting with it and had Thor send me the test bullet pack to size them. I'd prefer to only do load development for one bullet that will work for everything.

I've shot powerbelts in my other inline (Rem M700) and they did fine on deer. I have dug a few out of dirt banks and they do deform quite a bit. I was running them with 100 grs of Triple 7 and don't know the velocity and frankly didn't care - it was only for deer and under 100 yards. I've killed a bunch of deer with recurves and revolvers - a 348 gr hunk of lead moving faster than I can see will kill a deer out to any reasonable range.

For elk, I want any extra margin of error I can get. Last year was a good example. I ran into a small herd of elk in the timber headed back to their bedding area. I shot my bull at 30-40 yards as it quartered sharply to me. I had cows standing within 10's of feet when I shot; they were within seconds of bolting. I want to feel confident I can make that shot with a MZ. I would have passed with a bow but would have taken it with my large caliber handguns shooting heavy LBT style bullets. Situational ethics applies to hunting and I want to be sure of the outcome before I pull the trigger. If I can believe I'm better off with a more costly bullet, I'm in. Now if Nosler would just make a 50 cal Partition MZ bullet, we'd be set.

Nothing wrong with that. But a couple things about "Powerbelts." First, they come in different sizes. A 348 is not a 250. Second, they are softer than some bullets, so 80-90 grains of powder is your sweet spot.

But most guys who say they won't work on elk haven't shot elk with them.

Haven't shot an elk with mine, but have used .348gr powerbelts to kill two mulies. I read all about no penetration and super lousy bc with powerbelts. So reality for me is they are the most accurate by far out of my knight lk93 in .54 in front of two pyrodex pellets. Last mulie turned as I was shooting and the powerbelt went through the hip bone, penetrating the body and exiting through an offside rib leaving it sticking out. That should be enough penetration to kill any elk. Shot was at 90 yards. I will be hunting elk this year. Will use an Austin Halleck in .50 cal that I just picked up. I'll be running powerbelts, barnes, shockwaves and precision rifle's dead centers to see which is most accurate and gives the most distance. I'm confident any will work if I do my part.

I wasn't throwing rocks at you or your experience, in fact I appreciate sharing it with us. Bullets are one thing I've never thought twice about spending money. I always try to use a bullet that enables me to shoot whatever I'm hunting at any angle at any reasonable range. The reason I tend to use Nosler Partitions for everything - certainly don't need a partition to kill a deer.

No worries B, the comment was not really aimed at your post, and I don't take issue with what you said. I'm not trying to tell people what bullet to use, what bullet is "best," or criticize someone's bullet choice.

I just get tired of hearing people say powerbelts won't kill elk, because I know they will.

i harvested 1 5x5 bull with a 348 grain powerbelt. elk was slightly quarting toward me at over 150 yards, shooting downhill hit him a little high behind the front shoulder and bullet lodged low in offside hind quarter. i am a firm believer pour powder is best used with a powerbelt due to the cup on the base. hunting in Co. had to use a full bore bullet and open sites. ranged the shot after the fact at 159 yards. i was using a Knight Wolverine, added a thumb hole stock and a recoil pad for the extra length. still hunt with that MZ to this day but has Luepold 3x9, still shoots great whatever i run thru it.

Gotta look at the Barnes. But If you can't get them down your barrel you won't like trying to load them. Seems to me your season as mine is coming upon us fast. So I'd not hesitate to grab a powerbelt. I've yet to find a bullet that loads easier especially after multiple shots.

I think Thor bullets use's a Barnes and offeres them up in the proper bore diameter for your rifle.

"The Best"?

Any bullet properly placed is the best. Good luck and happy hunting!

I,ll freely admit Ive never used a 50 cal front loader on elk, Ive always used my 58 cal or 62 cal, but a maxi ball over 100 grains of 2F seemed to work well every time so far, and in my two hawken style rifles groups under 2.5" at 100 yards are common off a good rest

For my traditional MZ, I use 100 grs of FF, behind a maxi ball or maxi hunter. A couple of elk and deer have been taken with this combo.

That'll do it I'm not a fan of expandable bullets out of muzzleloaders at all.

Ok, I'll bite and keep this thread alive. .

You have to find the best bullet for your tasks. I am no muzzle loader expert - I have ONE and have used it to take a big bull elk. I was in Utah, where we were limited to 1X scopes. I put in for a bull tag in a unit where I figured that I would hunt at least 5 yrs sooner if I used a muzzleloader. After 14 yrs I got the tag! I had to buy a muzzleloader - found someone selling Remington ML (not the 700) for $225. Figured I couldn't go wrong - if it didn't shoot I could move it. But, since I had to have bases and rings, I slapped a 3-9 on the rifle. Then I tried different bullets and charges, using pyrodex pellets. (keep it simple for me!) I found that the Barnes bullets shot into 1.5 inches at 100 yds with 2 pellets. With 3 lumps, the groups expanded to just under 2", but I got 3-400 more fps, which makes ranging less important. I tried Hornadays 2.25" and powerbelts >2.5" and some others I can't remember. Now, when I put the 1" scope on the crosshairs subtended 3" at 100 yds, and groups opened up to 3". I couldn't tell the difference between barnes and Hornadays. . Hmm. I practiced with the Hornadays - as they were half the price of the Barnes. I shot from prone, over a pack, sitting, off sticks, and even a few off hand rounds. I shot > 250 rounds in practice. I could keep all my bullets in a paper plate at 300 yds, with a wee bit of holdover ( well maybe not so wee!) When I went to hunt, I zeroed the ml with the Barnes bullet. In the system - I did not want to be the weakest link, nor did I want the bullet to be the weak link. I think the scope and the range are the most important variables in the system.

On the hunt, I finally saw a big bull, about to crest a ridge and move out of sight. When my guide called him a big bull, I shot sitting from the sticks. As I reloaded, he asked how I felt the shot was. I said it was good. He said that as I broke the trigger, the bull took a step. I asked him the range, and he pulled out the range finder and came up with 110 yds. I said that I was 3" high at 100, so if the animal moved he was probably hit in the liver. We waited half an hour, and then found that he had only gone 40 yds. He was still breathing, so I emptied the rifle into him to finish him. Recoverd both 250 gr Barnes bullets on the off side just under the hide. Both had mushroomed perfectly and had retained essentially 100% weight. What more can you ask for?

Result: https://flic.kr/p/oBfay3

Evaluate your rifle with the constraints applied in where you will hunt. Try different bullets in your conditions. Remember, the price of practice is much cheaper than the price of success (= taxidermy! ;-) )

Well thanks for all of the suggestions. I called Thor Bullets today and they were very helpful. I am getting a sample pack of all their sizes mailed to me and going to work with them on which one might work with what I have(provided it's accurate with their bullets)

Barnes or No excuse.

I'm pouring my own 440gr WFN bullets with a 500 S&W mould now and really like them, as I can make them a little tougher than the NE.

I wouldnt take powerbelts to a goat shoot.

That's a nice looking elk you've got there. One day, I hope I'll have a similar trophy photo.

Do you remember specifically what kind of Barnes bullet you were using? Also, do you remember what velocity you were getting out of your particular load? I'm using 250gr Spitfire T-EZs right now, and I'm also getting about 1.5" groups at 100 yards with them.

I'm pretty happy with the results I'm getting accuracy wise right now. Also, it sounds like the Barnes bullets will consistently penetrate deeply enough to get the job done on large game as long as I do my part.

Wondering what you guys think of the Lee REALs for elk. My old New Englander shoots pretty good with my home cast 250s and 80gr equiv. 777. Not that it is a very good test but in my target butt of ag lime (ground limestone) they penetrate just about as far from 50 yards as the 165TTSXs from my 308 at 100. The ones I've dug out flatten out to better than quarter size, bound to do some damage.