Have shot maybe a dozen deer with BT's. I tried 123 amax form my 260 on cow elk hunt this year and was quite pleased. Bullet performed well.

Of course only use this bullet In well placed shots on broadside or slightly quartering away shots

Shoulder shot

Entrance




Exit




Bullet continued out opposite side breaking a rib and exited animal, Exit hole was a bit bigger than a golf ball. Elk travelled about 20 yds and tipped over

Same experience I have with the Partition, TSX and AB.

From Hornady's web site.

'nough said.

And yet they kill deer and elk really well... Hmmm

Did the research and shot them into phone books covered by elk and cow bones before using for hunting

As I said ok for broadside and slight quatering away shots for elk

Every deer I shot was DRT

With the light recoil of the 260 I am very confident on shot placement; mores than my 300 win mag

I shoot 100's of rounds a year from the 260

I kill elk and deer with my anemic arrow too traveling at a meager 240 FPS

The A-max isn't the only "target" bullet that works on big game.

A woodliegh solid is a hunting bullet but I doubt it would have performed as well.
The amax is a killer in the right hands.

Maybe we've just been lucky hundreds, and hundreds of times....

What is it they say about luck again?

I been using the 30 caliber 178gr A-Max for years in my 300 wby. To date that bullet accounted for 56 deer kills from 400 to 650 yards and 17 wild hogs ranging for 100 to 450 yards. I never had to track one animal. Also took a truck load of ground hogs at ranges from 350 out to 1400 yards.

Range? mtmuley

Elk, A-Max, 260 ?

Stunt shooter.

I don't get the allure with using target bullets to hunt elk. After the expense of an elk hunt, I want a bullet that I know was designed for the animal. They are no more accurate in my rifles than the bullets that are designed for hunting.

I expected the criticism. Anyway most likely be bow hunting again for elk.


Yep know it is a target bullet after 40 plus years of "stunt shooting and hunting"
that is why I posted this. And Instated that I shot through cow and elk bones into wet phone books with the amax before doing this. I really like the 6.5"s the more I shoot them. I reload and can practice a lot and very little recoil. Not so much for me with my magnum rifles.

This was a cull hunt for cow elk. Should have been more specific.

Around 70 to 80 yds. I personally would not usevthe the 123 amax on a 200 yd plus shot on elk.

Like I said broad side or a slight quartering away. Killed lots of animals with primitive recurveband heavy slow arrows. I am talking maybe 170 FPS . Worked fine. Have shot animals with coreloks , partitions, barnes.


Right tool for right situation.

"Right tool for right situation"

Can't argue with that. And I am glad it works for you. But to myself and 99% of us other guys, there is no reason to use this bullet on an elk. I want a bullet that will do the job in a variety of situations. I don't want to always wait for that perfect shot, because they come all to fleetingly if they come at all to me.

To everything you have stated, I would say that the nosler partition does everything your bullet does (great expansion) but improves on it with follow through if conditions not ideal. In fact that is the very reason Mr. Nosler was inspired to create such a bullet: a soft lead bullet coming apart on a large animal. My personal preference is that I would never use the A-max or recommend it for elk.

So with the nosler you lose nothing, and gain tremendously. Well, you might lose a 1/2" of accuracy. Big deal.

I too hunt with a bow, but you can't compare an arrow to a bullet. They don't kill the same. The arrow just has to have enough velocity to carry it cutting blades deep enough to bleed out your quarry. Apples and dinosaurs comparison

Can't argue with a dead elk. mtmuley

They cost more than twice as much. If you shoot a lot, it matters. And I know you can practice with one and hunt with the other, but again, if you shoot a lot and get a particular load dialed in, it's always good to keep everything the same when "game time" comes.

Partitions are good bullets no doubt. They're not required to kill big game though. I'm not sure why these threads always result in the same kinds of comments from people who don't want to use a "target bullet."

So don't use one. The OP didn't try to convince anyone his bullets were "the best," did he? He just posted information on how a particular bullet worked for him, and even included photos. I like reading that kind of information. Doesn't mean I need to run out and buy 123 Amaxes, or tell him why his choice is wrong.

He even included a disclaimer, can anyone argue with this?

I have always examined animals after I shoot them when I dress them to see how bullet or broad head performed. From squirrels to moose caribou I have shot.

I noticed deer that I shot with the amax died very quickly ( good thing) and the amax bullet did not explode as most would think even though I hit bone. So I started shooting the amax into cow and elk bones in front of wet phone books.

Penetration seemed good. So opted to use it for this cow elk hunt. You can see from pics the amax performed well and animal died a very quick humane death. The bullet did not explode when it hit the shoulder and rib bones and did exit far side of the animal. I am not advocating that amax are superior to partitions I posted this because the amax and other BT bullets I have taken game with worked quite well and they did not "explode" when they hit bones in the animal. Now based on my experience I would not use the Hornady SST on elk because of personal experience and examine deer I have killed with this bullet. Others may disagree.

If I drew a big bull rifle tag I would choose a partition over the amax any day.

Regarding broad head vs bullet. I know they act in completely different ways. We re told in the bow hunting community that you need an arrow approaching 300 FPS per second with expandable broadheads to kill and slow does not work . Well that is a myth too as a heavy arrow ( over 500 grns) with a good sharp COC broad head will easily penetrate well even if it is going a mere 170 to 180 FPS .

When the manufacturer tells you it has lousy penetration and to not use it for hunting, doesn't that say something? There are equally accurate bullets all over the place. Why not use something that will penetrate all the time, not just when you get a perfect hit?

Manufacturers also say not to use reloads and that we should not attempt to disassemble our own guns

That's for lawyer proofing the guns. It has nothing to do with what a bullet is designed to do.

I run amax exclusively as my target bullet and also as a deer dropper when hunting urban.
However, were I to be paying for a hunt I wouldn't use them. Not because they don't work, but because I want to be able to take any distance and angle I get a chance to.
When I'm hunting on my dime and time I can pass if I can't take a head shot.

Why not use what you want, and leave it at that?

I feel sorry for the wounded elk when one blows up under the hide. Use a bullet that'll put it down every time.

Did you actually read the OP, or just climb straight into your pulpit? Did you notice how the OP qualified his use of this bullet?

Did you perchance see the dead elk?

Yes, amaxs are made with pressed wet glitter.
We tested a few on wet single ply toilet tissue and couldn't get a single one to penetrate.
Going to retry with sunbleached saran wrap.

'nough said?

Mentioned this in another thread within the past few weeks, but will again now: Over the decades I've seen far more bullets "designed" for big game come apart and fail to penetrate sufficiently than target bullets come apart and fail to penetrate sufficiently.

In fact, I have yet to see a "target" bullet fail in that way, though admittedly none were used for the dreaded rear-end shot that some people seem to think is so common especially for "trophy" hunting. But the so-called big game bullets, suppoedly designed for the job, came apart on pretty normal shots into the shoulders of some deer-sized animals, and so far I haven't seen that happen with any of the target bullets placed in shoulders.

This doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but these results do indicate that just because some company suggests XYZ bullet is suitable for big game doesn't mean it's infallible. Or because they say a certain target bullet isn't meant for big game doesn't mean it won't work well.

People read to much and think to much. That said use what works for you. I kill a lot of animals with the 178gr A-Max, don't think they would have died any faster if I hit the with a TTSX or partition DRT is dead right there

If would say a cow elk deserves the same respect. I have also shot some really big cows

The only people I have heard saying you need a 300 fps arrow are the bow manufacturers.

That said, the bullet works IN YOUR HANDS, and it is the right choice for you, but not for me. And IMO not for novice shooters/hunters either.

[/quote]

You post such a thread on an open forum and you will get pushback. Just a fact. Why do I feel the need? Because there are a lot of young impressionable guys out there reading these and I don't want them to think that most guys just agree with what is being said.

You post such on the internet, you have to accept the opposite view. I am happy to read and think about guys opinions like this one, but I have just as much right to post my opinion. His opinion didn't upset me and mine shouldn't you.

Elk killing threads are always good entertainment.

Please tell me which opinions, facts, or points the OP posted that you're "pushing back" on.

The AMP jackets just add the extra that makes it a strong choice. However...I wouldn't want to spend my limited hunting days pursuing a wounded animal because the lo all do rates that a hit burns a tag.

Agreed on the SST. Good post.

Terminal ballistic research out of new Zealand talks of how surprisingly well the a max bullet preforms.

His implied opinion that this is an OK bullet to use on an elk hunt. And his opinion that it is OK to use on a cow, but not on "the bull of the woods". I think in his hands, within the parameters that he talks about, that is true, but want others out there to know that many of us would not consider this bullet to be adequate in our hands for elk hunt with all the uncertainties they bring with them.

That said, if I were 80 yards from an elk that was standing still broadside or slightly quartering away and all I had was the set up he used, would I hesitate. Not a second. But on that same elk hunt, if a cow presented at 250 yards with a not so ideal angle, I would have to let her walk with that bullet. He pretty much said that exact thing. My point is that with a different bullet, you would not have to pass on the second shot, so why would I take a bullet that I consider has limitations?

I'm confused, did you expect only like minded guys who agree with him to respond?

Could be that the bullet is built better than the company claims it is. Hey, before the nosler, millions upon millions of animals died to bullets LESS well built than the A-max.

And the self testing with bones is pretty impressive too.

With his results, and the limitations he stated I'm not sure how you can argue with anything he said. His opinion was not implied, it was clearly stated that he thinks the bullet is OK for short range double-lung rib shots on cow-sized animals. And he showed the proof to back it up. How many animals have you shot with these bullets?

And you're putting your own spin on what he said about using a different bullet for bulls; he also qualified that by using the word "big."

As in, a bigger animal may need a stouter bullet. Big bulls are bigger than big cows. It has nothing to do with how you spun it, and everything to do with the size of the animal.

Said my piece and we will never agree, so I agree to disagree. More than one way to "kill an elk"

Have any of you ever said/thought "if I had a (?) magnum or (?) premium bullet I would take the shot, but since I only have (?) I won't".

Not me, I've either had a good shot or I didn't.

I want posters on here to know that they can post the results of their successful hunts, including the details on the bullets they used and the performance of those bullets without getting a ration on you-know-what for their efforts.

It's useful and good information, thanks ribka.





Yes, you are confused. The thread is not about what you personally would or would not do, it's about ribka's results.

Which were very good by the way, and nothing you've said changes that.

If you want to express your opinions about what you would or would not do, it's probably best to start your own thread. Or at least try to avoid putting your own spin on his and implying that he said things he didn't.

SLM: I would consider a 150-200 yard, slightly "quartering to" shot a good shot with a nosler partition. And we don't all always shoot Minute of angle in the field. I have had a better bullet save me when my aim wasn't quite as true as it should have been. For a true sharpshooter with a "good shot", he might as well take a 22-250 out shooting a 55 gr soft lead bullet for an elk. They will be just as dead.

I'd be curious to hear about all the AMax failures, especially with elk and 162's.

I dislike head on or heavy quartering to shots and generally would not take them regardless of bullet or caliber. But that is just me

I guess all elk hunters should limit shots to 100 yds or less and be required to shoot at least a 338-378 weatherby

I'm a big boy not immune to criticism. i expected mostly negative input and some ( not a lot) of positive input when i decided to post. I posted this because after hunting over 40 years I felt like I needed to examine what I felt were possible misconceptions regarding bullets and larger game like elk.For years I always considered a big magnum was necessary to kill elk and big mule and whitetail deer.
I like to shoot a lot with my hunting rifles. Shooting a light weight magnum was becoming less enjoyable for range sessions.I discovered the 6.5's a few years ago and enjoy shooting them, their history and reloading for them. I found I could shoot regularly and quite accurately.After noticing the effectiveness on deer with amax's I thought about using them on a cow hunt. I knew where the cows came out each morning and knew I could set up before light for a relatively easy shot. (BTW I have shot 3 cow elk here in WA with unjacketed muzzle loader bullets. The law just changed recently allowing jacketed bullets. Yes I killed 2 of the three cow elk easily with solid lead heavy buffalo bullets. The third cow taken with Ml unjacket bullets was shot with unjacketed lighter powerbelt bullets. I did not like their performance so stopped using them)

Anyway cow came out into sage as expected and story over.

Me too.

Hornady spent a pile of money developing and testing the Amax. They determined it to be an excellent target bullet but decided it was deficient for hunting porposes. After all they spent on it, if it was a good hunting bullet, they surely would have said so to increase sales. But, they didn't. They specifically said it's too fragile for hunting so don't use it.
So, a few gun writers who weren't in on the testing write about it so that negates all of Hornady's testing.

I wonder how many recommendations would be more accurate if they said "I shot 3 elk with this bullet and found 1 of them so it's a great bullet."

I've also used to work for a meat processor, processing game during hunting season. I've seen a lot of the shot up game that doesn't get posted about on internet forums.

Rock Chuck,

The image I posted about the A-Max is from Hornady's own manual...

208gr Amax, one shot kill at 550 yards. Bullet broke both shoulders, and left a golf ball size exit. The bull hit the ground and never moved.

From a .308 Winchester of all things. I'd say use it......when I make a statement about something, I've either used it myself, or seen it used.

Who wants to bet that there are fewer lost animals with Amax than any other bullet?

This is a silly statement.

I killed a very big mule deer one time with a 7-.300 Weatherby firing 175 Nosler Partitions at 3,150 feet per second. The buck was maybe 100 yards away broadside. The bullet hit about 3" above and behind the heart. The buck ran off about 300 yards. If it had been in the woods I would have lost it by the direction I watched it run in the sage. It took off one way about fifty yards then cut back maybe seventy yards and then straight away. The entrance hole was about 2 1/2" diameter. The exit hole was about half that size strait in line with the other side.

I killed a medium blacktail with a 7STW firing 120TTSX at 3,600. The heart was totally gone. I expected a drop at the shot. The buck ran in a straight line at least 100 yards. Fortunately, because I was in the woods, by then I was able to track a little better.

I would not hesitate to expect an AMax will work just as effectively as either of the two bullets above.

The reason Hornady changed the hunting bullet recommendation in the literature isn't because the AMAX doesn't work very well in the role/use.

Now Pat there you go using actual field experience again. You know that will never fly at the Campfire

Speculation and opinion only here

I shot a 180 pound whitetail this season with a 105 amax out of a 6br. I was Very impressed with bullet performance also the caliber.

You'd have a point if they didn't also manufacture and market "premium" bullets that cost more.

Why should they promote their inexpensive "target" bullets for hunting use when they have a whole slew of people like you convinced that you need a more expensive bullet with a bonded jacket, monomental construction, or a partition to hunt big game?

If you want to talk about animals that have been shot with an Amax and not recovered, have at it. How many have you shot and not recovered?

How many were shot with the Amax?

I can honestly say that out of dozens of elk I've shot over the years, I've never failed to recover one. You can say BS all you want to but that's the hard truth. I've never used a bullet not recommended for the job by a manufacturer and I've never taken a questionable shot. I've used a lot of Speer Hotcores and found that they've been good ones although in the last couple of years, I've found that their accuracy has dropped.

So what? How is that relevant to this discussion?

Good thread. I’ve been researching possible loads for a 7x57 and looking at different possible loads the 162 AMax being one of those. Its good to see some actual field results with this bullet.

My good friend shot this bull at 500 yards with a 140gr Amax from a 260. Dropped on impact and never moved...

Shooting through elk and cow bone before the hunt was a good idea. I'm sure it gave him gobs of confidence. I did that with my .454 and 260 grain Freedom Arms bullets. They beat the 175 and 160 partitions from my 7STW!

I had a yound hunter this past season hunt elk with his younger brother's 300 Win Mag and a 168 AMAX loads that were intended for hunting coues deer. He shot a fairly big bodied bull in the lower shoulder where the bullet, had it penetrated, would have taken out the heart. As it was, the bullet exploded on contact, making a very nasty would, breaking the leg but no damage deeper than about 1/2". It was a brutal tracking job taking part of two days.

I would never intentionally hunt elk with that bullet- way to explosive. I have seen similar Berger shots placed when the outcome was much better.

Another buddy said they tried them for shooting the small whitetails but they blew the capes up too bad to salvage. Did kill with spectacular results on 90# deer though.

Because you asked how many I've shot and not recovered. My answer was 'none'.
There is simply no reason to use a bullet proven by the manufacturer to be wrong for the job when there are so many proven ones out there. It's a trick shot just to see if you can do it. The elk is the one that suffers if it doesn't work.

"After shooting several elk with 180 gr AB's in a 300 WSM, that's exactly the kind of performance I expect from them. I won't use them again."

Rock Chuck, you posted this some time ago. You used a manufacturer recommended bullet, you got what you consider poor performance, and you used it at least two more times. How can you criticize others for using a bullet that works for them but you continued to use a bullet that didn't work for you?

That's not what I asked and I'm pretty sure you know that. Let's be clear on that point, here's what I said, verbatim:



And the reason I asked the question is because you keep talking about hypothetical animals shot with an Amax and not recovered. I just wanted to make it clear that you have no personal experience with the bullet, unlike other posters with dead elk and photos.

As much as you want to make this about you, your preferences, and the bullets you choose to use, it's not.

I saw 3 large bull elk meet 162 amax bullets last fall. "Smoked meat!"

Not to change the subject, but speaking of target bullets and big game, has anyone gotten much experience with the .284 150 grain Scenar? Seems to have ".280" written all over it.

Or the 180 grain scenar. I'd like to run them in my mashburn.

173 yds.
High shoulder.
105 AMAX in 243AI
Never took a step.

I'm shooting the 208 amax in my 300 @ 3150. Shoots very well. Will use on elk next chance I get.

That'll leave a mark. RUM?

RUM

Not enough gun and using a target bullet.... you're fired from the internet!!!



Seriously, impressive work there.

You just caused a few strokes.

Quote. the bullet exploded on contact, making a very nasty would, breaking the leg but no damage deeper than about 1/2". [/quote]

I seen this happen out of a 300 win mag using Remington factory 180gr core lokts. Blew up just under the hide

Don't reckon you guys saw the bear Stick Amaxed with a 6BR?

?

16 how can we possibly know that with any degree of certainty? With any bullet?

Any "proof' would be so full of holes it would sink the Queen Mary.

If you hit an elk in the right spot, any old bullet will do but when you hit them in a marginal spot and need that penetration the 162-168 Amax is NOT the bullet you want to be shooting.

Had he been using a 208 grain Amax I think we would have been fine. That's not what was asked. I had never seen a 180 grain Corelokt blow up on the skin- maybe if there was mud there.

I think if you ask enough people you can find examples of almost any bullet failing.

Just started to run the 162's from my 7-08 and Im glad to hear good results from the field as my gun really shoots em well. Thinking 2700 FPS or so will be magic on critters.


I mean for a "target" bullet that is................... LOL

Probably the most fair statement out there...

FWIW as a taxidermist, and folks running common ammo, the MOST core/jacket seperations I saw and this mostly on whitetails, was corelokt.

Of course I can't recall one failing on a deer for me. But moving forward to the boy scout theory many years ago, I mostly went to good bullets for hunts where I didn't want to have to pass up a shot.

I consider amax the same, I don't see one ever giving up on the skin/hide of a lung shot, but I'd treat em like bergers et al, lets go in soft and out hard if hard is involved at all...

Kinda sorta what I was thinking. Then there's the fact that there might be only a coupla loads with Amax off the shelf, and not at WalMart.

But since this is the first thread ever about hunting with A-Max, the world may never know.

Well I have. it happens, there was no mud either

Oh, and I've NEVER lost an animal with A-Max. Ever.



'Course I poke Barnes in groceries....

Either have and I shot a lot

And 7/08 for sure.....

I've got a little stash of them set aside to work up a load for in the lil ladies Kimber 7/08. If they perform anything like the 123s/139s, that combo won't suck...

Laker... Kurt (30338) has knocked over a fair number of critters with the 180s. I ran a load work up with them in my 7 WSM. Much like my other experiences with Scenars, they were super easy to tune.

I've never seen a bullet "fail". My guess is 95% of those claiming their bullet "failed" was actually due to poor shot placement.

Naw man, its always the rifle. Just look at the used gun racks after huntin season. None of them guns shoot....

I've had 1 deer take Step.
He covered about 30-40 yards. Double lung.
But, a deer ain't an elk.

I would agree with the 95% figure but it also depends on how you define "fail." Some would say if you recover the animal the bullet by definition didn't fail. But, if you shoot multiple times and recover a bullet that blew up before making it to the vitals, that would count.

I know a guy who shot a nice bull with a 168 TTSX at 60 yards. He showed me the recovered bullet because I loaded the ammo. for him. It centered the heart. Good thing it did, because it looked like you could stick a new plastic tip on and load it again.

By definition, it didn't fail, but it sure did make me second guess using that bullet at those velocities. 308 Win. in this case but a .300 Weatherby at 350 yards is the same thing.

That first one has computer paper wrapped around his horn, did you kill him at the office?

If you use the A-Max within a limited velocity window it seems to work well most of the time. As it's a very lightly constructed bullet with an amplified expander button, basic logic should dictate what will work and what may turn into a disaster.

This seems like one of those topics on which people don't change their minds.a

I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but I remember that the AMax was listed as a frangible game bullet on Hornady's site before the SST came along.

Clearly the OP and many others here have proven the pre-SST stance correct. If you or I don't want to use a target bullet we still can't dispute photographic proof that it'll work.

Yeah, be was vandalizing the copier.

Anyone ever caught one?

Disregard my last... Perfect mushroom!

whatever you do, don't try one of those target bullets on an elk.

Several have mentioned using 708s and 308s with them. These chamberings rarely tear bullets up. Start pushing them at magnum speeds and the target bullets are iffy. Using a heavy for caliber target bullet will buy you a lot of leeway. Using a lighter one at high velocity makes for spectacular kills and disastrous wounds if things don't go right.

I use the 30 caliber 178gr A-Max out of my 300 Wby match, fps with this load (85.5gr H4831) is 3341FPS and it killed a lot of deer and pigs too. I would use it on elk to if giving a chance.

Complete?
Never. Jackets...yes.
In fact I have shot deer at double digit yardage (low ...like sub 30) and never had a particle exit the neck.
At longer ranges...READ LOWER. VELOCITIES, I've had them fully penetrate double lung and leave 10cm exits.
I don't give a chit what they do at +2600 ...I don't push them that fast.
And when they group like this...

and your cold bore shot is this predictable...


...then you have a level of confidence that allows you to take shots that avoid large bones.

The picture of the recovered bullet above was fired from a 7WSM launching them at just under 3100 fps. It was the only one recovered that day, even though the load was used on more than one elk, with more than one shot on some, because the other bullets exited. One particular mule deer that I killed was shot at 40 yards using the same 162 AM fired from the 7WSM at 3112 fps muzzle velocity. The bullet went through both shoulder blades and exited the slight angling shot, leaving a 1.5" exit hole. No excessive damage in the wound channel.

The AM is a C&C bullet, and just like any other C&C bullet heavy for caliber bullet weights should go along with magnum velocities to avoid bullet disintegration. Your comment is not exclusive to the AM or target-style bullets in general.

This thread is like the hypothetical elk (all but Dennis's) shot with an Amax.

It just won't die.

Hypothetical?

Hypothetical = all of the elk that the premium bullet guys have talked about that don't die when shot with an Amax.

Top 3 elk I put on this thread were taken with a 162 AMAX. Great results, short recovery from crumpled when hit to a few steps. All shoulder/vitals. The one that went the farthest was the 4th one, mine, about a 200 yard recovery.
http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=261263&highlight=Raghorn+express

That proves nothing except..........YOU SUCK!

How about all the elk shot with Barnes that were missed...then ran off and died.

Have you seen Jake's new rifle?....He's gonna be even deadlier now.

You should come up to my shoot....Jake will be there. 6.5 SAUM's are gonna steal the show......

who would a guy get to build a 6.5 SAUM?

Build long action or short? On a Tikka or Remington or?

GAP would be the one.

http://www.gaprecision.net/

Pat- haven't seen it yet but sure I'll see it soon - along with some unhappy bear. Would like to attend your shoot but can't swing it. Hopefully next year when I can shoot farther than 300 yards.

" Happiness is a warm gut pile..,,"

Yes we love the .260 George Gardner build for us (aka GAP), a super nice and accurate long range round. Now getting a 6.5 build on a Winchester action. Hope to take use it in Spain and Africa next year.

Many times. Usually when I'm carrying a levergun and shooting rimmed cartridges (.30-30, .375 Win, .45-70, .44 Mag). But that is a problem with the cartridge, not the bullet.

There have been times when cup-and-core performance failed to impress me. The first was my with my first elk when a Hornady 162g InterLock retained less than 50% of its starting weight and failed to exit, even though it had hit only one rib. Years later I took a similar shot (broadside, same range,same rifle) with a 160g Grand Slam. This time the bullet destroyed both shoulder joints before coming to rest under the hide. This time retained weight was over 70% and there was massive damage to the bones involved. Both elk went down but there is no way bullet performance was even close to the same. This, by the way, was the first Grand Slam I had recovered in the intervening 20 years that I had been using them.

Another time I hit a mulie buck in the right ham and recovered the bullet, a 140g 7mm North Fork SS, from up against the brisket. I would not expect a bullet for which the manufacturer claims limited penentration to perform as well in that situation.

My son-in-law mistakenly used the A-MAX practice loads instead of the TTSX hunting loads on an antelope. He got a lot of penetration, starting with the left backstrap and finishing in the left ham. Pretty much shredded them both.

Give me a bullet that will perform well under good circumstances as well as bad. I don't want to take a THS but if a possibly wounded animal is fleeing and that's all I have, the bullet in the pipe needs to be up to the challenge.

A little late....



The reason that Hornady no longer advertises the AMAX for hunting (as they once did) has absolutely nothing to do with performance in game, and everything to do with certain entities using Hornady Match ammo/bullets to kill bipedals.

Read that again. Now one more time.



Quite the opposite, most are tested specifically for terminal effects and tailored/tweaked to perform within certain parameters.

Read that again. Now one more time.



That'd not be a guess.





Amax's are no different than any other bullet. They all have different tendencies based on caliber and weight. There are certainly Amax's that "I" wouldn't choose to use on deer and diffidently on elk, but there are some that I would without hesitation.

People act as if terminal performance (how a bullet acts in tissue) is somehow magical. It is not. It is a known and quantified subject. There are certain parameters and terms that are used, however suffice to say that terminal performance is simply- how deep a bullet penetrates, how wide the wound channel is, and how consistently those two things are done while going through barriers (bone being a barrier). Once sufficient penetration has been reached, the wider the wound channel the faster the kill. Given same vitals impacted (no CNS), and sufficient penetration a BallisticTip will kill faster than a Barnes. Simply due to the wider wound.



For my use, I want a bullet to penetrate from the onside back of ribs to the offside shoulder of whatever game I am hunting. Preferably with an exit, however that is not mandatory. For smaller southern deer that means 16-20 inches of penetration. That means potentially a bit of intestine, liver, lungs, ribs into shoulder. On top of that I want the bullet that consistently produces the widest wound channel along those 16-20 inches.

No matter the game I generally want those same parameters. Lots and lots of bullets meet the penetration requirements, few meet the wound channel diameter requirement. Very, very, very few match the right AMAX in that regard.

Despite popular (un)informed thought, I would absolutely rather have a bullet meeting the above standards than a "deep" penetrator such as a Barns or Hornady GMX, when shooting an animal in the hips either from the side or from behind. In that situation you are not trying to kill the animal with one shot, but to anchor it and the wider the wound channel the more tissue destroyed. It is quite possible, and I have seen Barnes, etc. miss the spine or cause insufficient damage and the mammal covering a good distance with little blood after a hip/rear end shot. Have seen the same from Amax's and like bullets due to follow up shots and a few first shots, and NONE have moved at all after the hit. There is simply to much damage caused by the bullet.







I don't use them for every application, nor do I believe that they are the best choice for most people's uses, however I have killed hundreds of 100 pound and up animals, including elk, with Amax's and for what and where I use them there is simply no bullet that kills faster.

Bing! Bing! We have a winner! And I am glad to see more and more acceptance of "target" bullets working for game hunting. I also enjoy more people thinking for themselves, and relying less on advertisements to define their reality.

Why are you shooting the animal through the hips? Must not care much about all that good meat. You hit them in the hips with an amax and you will have a pile of shredded, blood-shot meat.

It has been an interesting thread and I'm glad to know some Amax bullets can be used effectively on game, and maybe SST as well?

The rifles I now own are accurate with Speer Hotcor flat base, Hornady SP or factory federal blue box and if I buy a rifle that is not, I will have a new option.